Prince ByTor

The only issue we have is that we are using someone else's copyrighted work and are stuck in a Catch 22: if we do try to "supplant" Sega's capitalistic universe with our fan vision once we get big enough we will incur Sega's wrath and be squelched, but if we stay under the radar we won't get Sega's legal undies in a twist, however, then we won't get our vision out.

It'll be a fine balance that's needed, but the seeds are there and I can see them taking off with Sea3on (both in comic and animated), our fan fictions, and ones like E22Psi who make games that us 20 years ago dreamed could happen.

You see it right now with the music industry; they are holding on to a business model that is well over 60 years old and now with Amazon and iTunes the playing field is leveled, however that being said the bad news is that everyone can make a song and publish it, but that doesn't mean they 'should'.

I can see it going two ways initially with intellectual property controlled by big business: 1. they embrace the movement and actually benefit from fan works (like what has been happening with fan novels for eons), or 2. they can fight it and attack the fans but suffering huge losses in the process through lost sales and go the way of the recording industry. In the end no one can fight it when the market changes; just look at Microsoft, they are more or less holding on to the empire Bill Gates built in the 1980s and haven't really innovated and have been milking their windows and office cash cows. Meanwhile the market changed to where the consumer doesn't need their software anymore; sure, they are trying to enter the new markets, but their monopolistic business model of expecting the customer to come to you because he/she need your product doesn't work in today's economy.

I like how Duane Allman put it: "There ain't no revolution, it's evolution[...]" I too will keep doing what I can and eat a peach for peace.

I'm glad Ian Flynn kept Bunny and Antoine together; he's doing the best he can under the circumstances. In my book I only wished he had shortened the Mecha Sally arc; 2 1/2 years was just too long. Other than that if you look at it objectively he has done a lot to repair the damage Bollers and Penders did. I'm really hoping that he is using this reset to kind of clean away many of the scars left from their tenure.

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I deleted my story for personal reason, sorry.

Hard to believe this show is 20 years old! Man I feel old lol

Yeah, I know. Try being in your 30's.

 

 

The Void. It has no origin, it has little explanation. Care to speculate in the context of the show?

 

Well, we knew Naugus discovered it, or at least was the first to find it and live to tell about it. Also, Robotnik seemed to have an ability to control it; which is the reason why Him and Naugus had the uneasy partnership. Naugus was very interested in it, enough to risk his life on it and to trust Robotnik! He said in The Void episode that the crystals amplified his powers, which would explain it, but there was a price to pay, and we all know what that was.

Anyway, if I had to speculate what this void was, it was an extra-dimensional piece of space/time where all magic crystals possibly originated; perhaps this dimension is where 'magic' on Mobius comes from? Maybe the crystals are crystallized "magic power?"

 

 

And perhaps this is the origination of the Crystal Computer and The Chaos Emeralds?

 

One can definitely infer that from the former, and perhaps the latter as well. It also seems to have an effect on matter that is exposed to its energy for too long; it caused the crystallizing of both the king and Naugus after being in The Void for too long.

*EDIT*

I should probably also add that the crystallization only takes place when they are away from the void, so it might be like their cells have been so permeated by it's energy that when not in direct contact with "Void Energy" their bodies crystallize?

Uncle Ben, on 11 Sept 2013 - 9:18 PM, said:

I got one

 

In a post-9/11 world, do you think the Freedom Fighters would be called that or do you think they would be called something (like some people consider Freedom Fighters terrorists and vice versa

I don't see any problem with the name, in fact with all of the inflated flag-waving patriotism in the years since, I think the name would go over better than ever. The only issue I see is with their overall guerrilla tactics, which is exactly the same tactics that most terrorist organization use; and also an argument could be made for "one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" point of view. Heck, in the Revolutionary War technically we fought using terrorist tactics; the Boston Tea Party? Also we didn't full abide by "The Rules of War" that mandated you march forward in plain site and let both sides shoot at each other. We learned from the Natives to hide behind trees and shoot, hit and run, and shock of all shock intentionally aim for the officers to cause the British to break ranks, which was just something you didn't do in polite warfare.

However, as The Red Stranger said, they are fighting for their lives against tyranny, sure, to Robotnik they are seen as ragtag terrorists, but in reality most anyone with an ethical bone would see their plight.

 

Antoine...do you think he was becoming useful by the end of the show? Why do you think they wanted him to tag along (when even Tails was seemingly more competant.

For the life of me I've never understood why they took such a liability with them on missions that required stealth, when he was anything but. Definitely in the last couple of episodes he became more of an asset with him saving Sally in Spyhog; even though it was miniscule, but his confidence did build. This caused him to start going for a more dangerous mission, which he unfortunately flubbed, but at least we got one of the funniest scenes in the show out of it: Antoine's interrogation at the hands of Snively: "Margarine!"

The only reason I can think they took him with them is because he was a palace guard and it was his sworn duty to protect the royals, (Sally), even though his obvious lack of training showed through. I mean, if you think about it, it seemed like it was a family duty pass down to him for generations; he was only a squire at the tender age of 5 to 7 when Robotnik attacked.

While it's an okay arc, it ran far too long; I think one year (12 issues) would've been more than enough. I noticed a lot of repetitive storylines concerning Mecha Sally, and others have mentioned as well. Also, when you run anything over 30 months long crap is gonna happen; logically the longer something is run something is bound to get in the way. Personally I believe that he missed a golden opportunity with making her a super villain, with the reoccurring "she attacks, they stop her, almost rescue her, but she gets away" storyline. He could've made a much-more compact arc that had a better payoff in my opinion. I think the Mecha Sally arc in #29 was better, and in my opinion we got more "bang for our buck" with a single-issue payoff, even though it was Dulcy's debut and she was the one that thwarted Sally.

 

 I feel these hypothetical American Canon games would quickly overshadow the current ones if done well (and seeing the story quality of the games as of late, that wouldn't be hard). A whole new type of Sonic series would get a lot of coverage in the first place. If it is pulled off real well you would have consumer soverignty in your favor and a money-hungry SEGA by throat.  The tables could turn.

 

Also if works like Sea3on keep being pumped out of decent enough quality and quantity you could easily have SEGA on the edge. Here they are with a market oppurtunity and the fans are just producing their own fresh work to please themselves. Your market suffers unless you appeal to what these writers are appealing to, a story - a series of reasons and plot points that drive the gameplay and make it meaningful.

 

I think the most capable and creative of the fandom should start visualizing themselves in a constant but passive-agressive competition with SEGA and manipulate their intrests for profit towards a direction of story quality and aquiring a solution (or series of solutons) to the above problem. Ironically we should be doing what they did with Nintendo, undercutting their market share with more punchy and guttsy work than a sacharrine italian plumber that repeatedly saves a codependant bimbo than saving multi-colored mcguffins and racing against squaky two-dimensional hawkmen. 'Sega did what Nintendidn't' and got around 65% of the market in the mid-90's. And that stopped the monopoly on games, forcing Nintendo into producing better quality work (eg. a mediocre Zelda 2 vs an amazing A Link The Past). Maybe if a few rise up to make something amazing (Se3on and other possible works like it) these fans will become what Segain't. And that will force Sega's hand. 

 

I really don't know who the heck is running Sega, but they've been incompetent ever since they hamstrung Sega of America. According to what I've read Sega of Japan was jealous of SOA, so they basically started to micro-manage SOA. Here you have the Sonic franchise, which was Sega's attempt to get a foothold in the U.S. market, so they make this red, white, and blue Hedgehog (after a few stupid other ideas) and tell SOA to do their stuff. And did they ever; they completely fixed the details and made him exactly what would sell in America. We get awesome games, SatAM, and different comic books, they had it all. And then what does SOJ do? They say essentially "us here in Japan know better than you do over there in America" and basically turn an awesome franchise into a mediocre one. I don't think Sega could do any worse if their competitors ran the company; what a bunch a pillocks.

*edit*

You're definitely right, it's up to us fans to run with the flag; SEGAin't gonna do it. That's why I support Sea3on!

 LMFAO yea i remember that video, it's fuckin epic! Still way better than my SATam parody!

 

"Some ass hole is picking the flowers" "My petunias!"

 LMAO yea that one's funny! I like alot of phrases on there, so many i can't say all of them!

Your parody is no slouch, but I agree this one is EPIC!

In Spyhog Snively says he is from "The Dom Provance," (I just phonetically spelled it, so it's probably wrong), which I think is a part of Max's kingdom that is Francophone. Take Canada for instance: the two dominant languages are English and French, however as you get up into Quebec it's almost entirely Francophone. A nation can definitely have more than one language.

Roboticization. How does it work?

As others have said, they never fully explained it, however in Sonic's Nightmare, and Blast From the Past we see the process take place. It seems to convert biological matter into metals directly; any Mobian that is Robotisized maintains their basic shape, it's just replacing the fleshy parts with synthetic ones, i.e. eyes are replaced with sensors and such. I figure other parts like the brain and heart are replaced with synthetic parts that perform the same function.

Antoine is a Mobian and french... a French Mobian? How the heck does that work?

In SatAM Antoine is supposedly a squire from the "Dom Provence" (my spelling is probably off), as read by Snively in Spyhog. Essentially Mobius' equivalent of France or a Francophone region of King Max's kingdom.

 

 Some very well-sourced observations!

 

 I find it odd though that they seem pretty happy that he was dead (especially Bunny). And that they knew what the Wind Tunnel could do. There is enough evidence to say Sonic had malice of forethought, just the once maybe. As for some intances I could see how he might not risk it at the expence of others (the spin-dash is a dangerous technique, you sacrifice accuracy for power, since your vision is obscured). I for one wouldn't want to accidently get my past self, friends, or family killed. As for Heads or Tails, well, would you really murder someone in front of an orphaned, scarable, child primed for deep mental scarring while in an all around life threatening situation, or would you bail with the kid to fight another day? Perhaps, Robotnik's cybernetics make those attacks impractical. And perhaps they prefer him alive for one reason, his brain. They want to know how the newer model roboticzors work...what way is better than...coaxing... it out of the mouth of it's very maker?

 

 Roter was also using hyberbole. Catching Robotnik would be more honor-worthy and challanging than killing him off right (though absurdly impractical and contrived, which was what Roter was going for rhetorically). It might reveal that they don't have a prefrence for killing and would love another option, but the alternative might still be on the table if the chips are down.

 

 As for any other in-story explanations as to why they did "not take the shot?"

 

Ps. I'd kill him in a heart-beat, but I wouldn't enjoy it. He has such a wonderful sense of humour!  Just look how he punked Antoine!

 

For me Bunny sounded more amazed and/or in disbelief by what had just happened rather than happy, but that's my interpretation. As for malice with the wind tunnel I cannot say for certain if their ends were for Robotnik and company to be flung off the cliff, and when it went off on them earlier in the episode they were able to overpower the wind. Plus, it's not like they could aim the wind tunnel.

Honestly outside of the fact that this was a Saturday morning cartoon that you don't normally see deaths; I would agree with Uncle Ben, if they had no choice. For all of his faults Ken Penders had Sonic pegged as far as having Sally die or severely injured to make him go over the edge like he did in Endgame. If you hurt someone Sonic loved severely enough or killed him/her I think he would definitely kill.

*edit*

After looking over the scene in question I never heard or saw anything that indicated malice. It was more along the lines that they were trying to get rid of the stealth orb that was tracking them. If anything it was Sally's plan to use the wind tunnel and Sonic went along, so if there was any premeditation of killing Robotnik it was Sally that had most of the intent. I also looked at Bunny again and it was definitely disbelief she was emoting. Although the way Sonic said "Believe it." did have a certain harsh tone to it.

 Remember in Sonic and The Secret Scrolls where he hides in the wind tunnel to spring a trap on Robotnik? That was an attempt to kill the creep!

 

 That's somethin' not even Batman has the bullocks to do....

 

 What do you think? Think Sonic's got the guts? I do. Or does it not fit his character?

In SatAM I cannot count the amount of times where Sonic is alone with Robotnik and instead of doing him in he does something silly like spin him around in the chair. Heck, in Sonic Conversion he goes to steal robotisizer parts: "Take me to his royal dopiness." There he is with Robotnik and is a spin-dash away from making his insides his outsides, but he doesn't. Again, in Blast to the Past, same scenario when he was trying to stop his Uncle from being robotisized he has a chance to off him with a spin-dash and doesn't; if he would've done it there his take-over would not have really happened!

Other instances where he had golden opportunities: Heads or Tails (He and Tails fall into his control room; he could've possibly killed him there), Super Sonic (Him, Bunny, and Sally could've possibly gotten him; although they were under heavy fire), Sonic Racer (He could've thrown off that red cloak and spin-dashed a hole in Robotnik), Hooked on Sonics (There was an opportunity here, however he might've had some trouble both the swat bots and Antoine present), and Drood Henge (Before being rescued he could've done something to him here as well). Then we can think about the other freedom fighters: Dulcy for instance: (Twice she froze him; the time in Game Guy what was stopping her from biting his head off after she froze him? Instead they retreat and let Robotnik continue his deadly game with Sonic); the other time in the episode Dulcy it would've been a little harder, but it was an opportunity nevertheless.

I guess what I am saying here is that none of the Freedom Fighters ever have any drive to kill, but rather "Bring Robotnik and Snively to justice." In fact in Hooked on Sonics Rotor tells Antoine that capturing Robotnik would get Sally to notice him, not killing him; that is exactly what Antoine attempts and fails at.

As far as Robotnik's apparent death in Secret Scrolls, I am unsure if Sonic's motives were to kill Robotnik, but just finding a means to escape him. In real-life they would want to stop him by any means possible including death, but we are talking about a cartoon that was played on Saturday Mornings to children. I really don't know if any of the character would be capable of taking a life, but under the circumstances and with what they went through especially Sonic and Sally would be the most capable in my mind mentally.

 

It's bad when stuff like that makes you miss The Cold War.

 

 If I was an evil overlord I spread decension indirectly through another party, set the Freedom Fighters up to be less than trust worthy.

 

I bring this idea up, because I was unconciously pre-supposing my own storyline. My bad! You see, Edge of Tommorow is a distant sequal to Sea3on ( almost 1 then 3 years after it, enough to let the series finish on it's own without me assuming my thoughts on the ending or stepping on the writers' toes). It only assumes Snivly and Nuagus are defeated and from there I plan to reference the progressing Sea3on storyline time to time as it goes along. In this, like the aforementioned Eastern Block, the past comes back to smack the Freedom Fighters in the face (who have no idea of the politics and problems of the original pre-coupe world, seeing how they were just children at the time). And...I plan to bring a certain someone/s back from the brink (all though there are going to be some...changes). I plan to bridge some gaps and adress all these above issues in various episodes. Since it's a written story, I can probably go more in depth into mileu of the Mandarins and such for us hardcore Satam fans.

 

 I plan to post some concept art and the first chapter soon (thought about eventually narrating and illustrating the whole thing with a group once Sea3on is done - as to enforce, rather than steal it's thunder) . 

 

That definitely would be an interesting concept, and you're right, none of the Freedom Fighters would know anything but the world in Robotnik's grasp. I, personally would love to see another group of original Mobian characters that could set the Freedom Fighters reeling, especially seeing one that could get inside Sally's head and push her to her limits psychologically.