Prime

I kinda like to think that Thrash is pretty much Ken Penders as a Sonic character with this current situation, yeah I know this story was planned out months ago and it's only been recent that major edits have had to come of it, meaning certain characters have needed to be removed, but it does make sense, with the whole "Their mine now and you can't have them back, so deal with it bitches!" thing.

All Thrash needs now is a pair of rapist glasses and a pedophile beard and he'd be a spitting image of Penders.

Do you come on here just to troll us? Why are you even here when you know most of us are not fans of Ian's work?

Besides, Ian dug his own hole here with that uncalled for comment. If he can't handle personal questions, then perhaps he shouldn't be the head writer. He's going to get put in the spotlight.

Like the old saying says: If you can't handle the heat, then stay out of the kitchen.

Maybe because Puffin isn't the one acting like a total shithead and looking for any little excuse to attack Ian Flynn when a chance rises up. "Hey! Let's not have a go at the people who are twisting words around, let's rip into Flynn again! How dare he ask us to act mature about the current situation! I bet this is all his fault somehow! Wait? What's this thing you call "proof"? I care not for that, I know it's his fault!"

And plus, this is a sub section of the forum dedicated to the comics, not dedicated to ripping Ian Flynn a new asshole every 5 minutes. The dude should be allowed to say what he wants without you labelling anyone who doesn't agree with you as a troll. Just because most people here don't like what's going on in the comic, doesn't mean all of us do.

Perhaps you should change the name of your DA group from 'Anti-Archie Sonic' to something like 'Fuck Ian Flynn' it'd be much more of a fitting title.

I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But being the kind of fan that I can sometimes be, I'll probably just be butthurt from now until it comes out.

You mean like how Batman fans were raging at pics that were released of The Joker from The Dark Knight before the movie was released? How they went on about how the look of the character was all wrong and it was ruining The Joker character without having seen the performance?

It's fan nature to get butthurt when we see something different, or hear about some news that we (and I mean our own personal opinion) don't agree with, casting news etc, but what good does all the butthurting and rage and ranting get you when you eventually see this thing that has been pissing you off before you actually sit down to read, watch or listen to it yourself, only to discover you actually enjoyed it? Doesn't all that ranting and anger from before seem pathetic? Best thing to do is not let it dig at you until you see the movies.

And wanting to see the comic just end... why not stop reading? I mean, it's still got it's share of readers that want to see where he takes things. If you feel it's gone to the point of no return, why keep coming back if you know your not going to like it?

Because if those people stop reading, they can't whine and complain about what's happening in the comic. I personally think it's because these people just wanna get themselves all pissed off about a comic book. They want to stand up on their soapbox, gather people around who will listen to their rants and make themselves feel like their opinion matters.

Some people just want to watch the world burn. Others just want to complain about a comic book aimed at kiddies.

Wow. How the hell did we get from talking about an upcoming Sonic issue to a topic on religion and war? This is almost as bad as YouTube.

It's the internet my good fellow, where anything can happen and always does! Threads get derailed more often then a guy with a serious case of OCD washes his hands after touching anything.

Ive been reading alot of different reviews and reports about the latest Sonic Archie comics. Frankly, each post makes me definately glad I stopped reading the comics at issue #73.[

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points, but these are just a few of the tidbits and little scraps of information Ive been finding. (As well as some observations) These are listed in no particular order of importance, so please dont go "well this point is more important than that one" yada yada yada.

• Sally has become a generic, roboticized [bleep]
• Sonic has become a [bleep] and actually used a woman
• Sonic and sally arent even remotely a couple anymore
• Sonic and Tails actually fought....i mean seriously fought!
• Price in my area is too high
• too many characters I dont recognize from ethier the games OR SatAM.
• Ive heard next to nothing about Uncle Chuck, Sonic's family, Dulcy, or Snivley!
• Wait...Antione is cool? He's actually speaking fluent english? (I understand if it was over a period of time, but from what I heard it was overnight?)
• Swatbots. In. Tuxedos. (nuff said)
• Comic goes on shock value now rather than decent touching storylines? When did this start?

And there you have it. Just a few of my reasons why I dont read Archie comics anymore.
Make of these what you will, but I felt I just had to get these of my chest. Please dont hate me. I realize I am a nobody and really have no right to bash on one form of fandom or the other, I just needed to vent. Thank you.

Finally, if there is a more appropriate spot for this, could someone please Let me know/move this topic there/both? I would be very much appreciated.

In all fairness, you shouldn't be judging what's been happening in the comic if you haven't read it in last 14 odd years. That would be like if I went up and punched the director of a movie I hadn't seen and said "That was for that crap movie you made! I haven't seen it but I heard it really sucked!" And for all I know is I might actually have enjoyed that movie.

As for your points:

.Sally has become a generic, roboticized [bleep]
Not the first time she has been roboticized in the comic. granted the first time only lasted one issue, but then again it has been revealed she'll be returned to her normal self soon. Plus she isn't the only main character to have been roboticizied before.

.Sonic has become a [bleep] and actually used a woman.
This was done under the previous writers and nothing to do with the current writer. The same writers who had worked on the comic during the run you had read who had been working on the book for so long they probably ran out of decent ideas. Seriously the end days of Ken Penders and Karl Bollers were more about pointless drama that was insanely boring in what is meant to be an action adventure comic for kids.

.Sonic and Sally arent even remotely a couple anymore.
No, but it appeared they were getting their relationship back on track before Sally was roboticized, and again, the break up wasn't the current writers idea. Plus, this isn't the first relationship break up in comic history. There are plenty of more well known and much beloved couples in comics who have done the break up routine. It's very common in comics.

.Sonic and Tails actually fought....i mean seriously fought!
Because best friends have never had fallings out with one another ever? Again, not the first time this has happened in comics.

.Price in my area is too high.
Could always get them shipped to you via eBay, it's what I do.

.Too many characters I dont recognize from ethier the games OR SatAM.
Keep in mind this comic is now in the 20th year of it's run and was never an adaption of the video games or SatAM, it was it's own seperate continuity that has used the characters from both universes. It is and should be allowed to expand itself by adding new characters, which again, is the norm in comic books. Plus at the time you were reading the comic had plenty of characters unique to it's continuity.

.Ive heard next to nothing about Uncle Chuck, Sonic's family, Dulcy, or Snivley!
Because you haven't been reading. Chuck and Snively had both popped up recently. Dulcy? Ehhhh, well in all fiarness, she isn't exactly a grade A character to begin with. Her whole reason for exisiting in the show was for getting characters from point A to point B, could only carry like 2 characters on her back and be another source of comic relief.

.Wait...Antione is cool? He's actually speaking fluent english? (I understand if it was over a period of time, but from what I heard it was overnight?)
Again, this isn't a continuation of SatAM and as such the comic should be allowed to develop these characters differently compared to their on screen counterparts. As for the over night thing.... Well... Shit happens?

.Swatbots. In. Tuxedos. (nuff said)
Let's not forget how this comic book started, when it was more like AoStH and it (and most likely readers) couldn't take it seriously. And let's not forget that this is a book aimed a children.

.Comic goes on shock value now rather than decent touching storylines? When did this start?
Well in all honesty, what was the Endgame arc all about when you think about the outcome? Shock drama. This huge build up of suspense and worry over Sally and everything turned out okay in the end. And in all fairness, I don't really recall reading any stories in this comic that were decent or touching in the old days. The 1990s were a dark time for comic books, lots of crazy weird things happened and the Archie Sonic book was not immune to this sort of thing happening in it. And plus any kind of shocking moment in comics, movies or TV can be considered a "shock value" moment, like in The Avengers when they killed off Agent Coulson, a popular character just to get the team to work together. And then it seems like the death was pointless because it's been said he'll be a main character in the upcoming S.H.I.E.L.D TV series. So it's shock value for killing him off just to move the story along which ends up becoming pointless shock value.

I'll admit that I started reading this comic around #110 and stopped at #134 because of how insanely terrible it was. I came in at the wrong time for this comic. However a friend got to me pick it up again at #213 and I've been reading it here and there. Granted it's not the most solid comic book I'm currently reading at the moment, that honor goes to Transformers: More the Meets the Eye but compared to the stuff I had read in the Archie Sonic comic before, what's going on now isn't that bad. And I have gotten around to reading a lot of the material that was produced before #110 and it's a mixed bag. Some good, some bad, some enjoyable, some terrible.

I'd suggest you hunt out some more recent stuff and see for yourself with how it's developing. Taking other peoples words on what is happening isn't actually a good thing to do because you might enjoy what they don't.

We have failed as a species because of greed.

No, we've failed as a species becuase of lots of things, not just greed. Like wars based around who has the best imaginary friend... I mean "God".

Man if this was any more exciting, I'd totally be jacking it.

I read the issues, ok? You want to prove me wrong? Show images of those issues to prove your point.

Asking for evidence or won't believe it... Hmmm, seems legit.

They were still unchanged basically because Sega WOULD NOT LET IAN ROBOTICIZE THEM. Do I have to bring up their asinine mandates?

Pretty much saying he is right without evidence to back up claim. So hows about you show us this list of madates you often drone on about?

Just seems like you're hell bent on just blaming it on all on Ian. Be it his fault or not.


Is it Ian's fault if the previous writers weren't clear with the immune bullshit? No, it ani't his fault. If they flat out stated that every single person on the entire planet was immune then Ian would be at fault, but they didn't. It'd be more logical for the BEM to immune the ones they deroboticized and be done with it. Did we see them immune the entire planet? All we know was the robians dissapeared and were later returned back to normal. So by doing that, how would that make the entire planet immune? For the immunity to work, wouldn't the BEM need to roboticize every single being on the planet and then deroboticize them? That'd be a hell of a task and there was never anything said about them doing something like that.

As for Robotnik, again, previous writers weren't clear. He tries to roboticize mobians it doesn't work. Do we know how many mobians he tried it on, or which ones he tried it on? No we don't. All we know is according to him that it doesn't work anymore, That means that either the entire planet is immune or he has only captured mobians who were previously robians and can no longer do it. He don't know how it's possible, so why keep roboticization? The previous writers more the likely wanted it out of the way, gave a quick half baked excuse and threw it in there. They might have meant the entire planet was immune but they didn't bother to make that clear.

And before anyone says "Well why didn't he go back to the previous writers and ask them?!" Might be in his contract to not have any contact with previous writers. Plus with how batshit insane Ken Penders has been acting towards Archie, you really think he'd risk that?

Oh, and just for the record, I looked up both the BEM and roboticization in the Sonic Comic Encyclopedia. And that book clearly states that the previous robians were the ones immune to further roboticization attempts. Doesn't say shit all about everyone being immune. It states that the BEM used a more advanced version of the roboticizer to deroboticize the robians, thus Robotnik's less then advanced model roboticizer would no longer work on them.

So how is that Ian's fault if the previous writers weren't clear? And before you say something like "Well why did it take Ian so long to bring it back?" I dunno, I'm not Ian. He may be a fan of the series and no doubt has read every single issue before being hired, but that don't mean he is gonna remember every single detail. Being the head writer, he will need to go and look back at all the previous material to do research, I mean hell, he must of done to have done the Encyclopedia. When he thought of possibly bringing roboticization back, he went and read the craptacular BEM stuff, saw the previous writers half assed it and found out it he could bring it back. Thus we can't really have a go at Ian for bringing it back if the previous writers didn't do their job properly.

These are my theories, not saying I'm right and you're wrong, so keep an open mind.


Okay, first of all, this whole de-robotcizing/not being able to reboticize character issue. Allrighty, we all know that the BEM used their god modding powers to turn everyone who was a robian back into normal. And that after they did that, Eggman couldn't change them again. However, I think the issue here is that he could no longer do it to those who had been changed back by the BEM themselves.

Peeps can argue that Sally was roboticized before, but that was waaaaaay back in issue #29 and she was changed back however the hell she was changed back (Honestly, can't remember but pretty sure it wasn't the BEM). So because of this, I don't think she has the BEM's super duper get out of being roboticized free card tucked away in her vest.

So after the BEM are all "See ya later fuckers!" Eggman comes to the conclusion that he can't really roboticize anyone. But it's possible that it's the immune ones who were changed back. Thing is he had a shit ton of roboticized mobians and I doubt he is gonna keep track of who had been changed. Since the robian count outweighed the mobian count, he loses he's biggest weapon against them and is there really a reason to keep it around because even if he can change people with it, it'll be a smaller number then before. So then Eggman goes about doing the Borg thing... I mean the Cybermen thing... I MEAN legionization! Yeeeeeah... Totally original idea (do not steal!) so he can have his army.

Then comes along this whole "AHA! I'ma gonna do a Superman: The Movie and rewind time to stick to the BEM so they can't do this immune bullcrap and thus EVERYONE can be roboticized again! Suck it BEM and suck it hard!" Or something like that with the whole Genesis arc thing. Because things didn't go according to plan, BEM immune plot device is still in effect. Sally gets roboticized because she wasn't immune. Perhaps the BEM forgot to give her that get out of being roboticized card.

Seriously, the fat bastard should of just done a Star Trek: FIrst Contact and gone back in time to change history himself. He could of hid away, built this world roboticizer in secret and then fired the thing while nobody would have known. But as we all know, evil villains can't do anything without their plans being known by every single person they know, be them allies or enemy.

However, it has been said in a couple of issues that he can roboticize people while he is rounding up citizens at some town that I forgot the name of. He is all "Here's the skinny, y'all gonna be roboticized and any of you that can be changed because of those selfish assholes the BEM, I'ma gonna legionize the shit out of you! Kay? Thanks!" Hell, he was even gonna legionize Lupe on the grounds that she had been roboticized and was changed back because of the BEM, thus she was immune.

So bottom line, those who were robians and changed back by BEM = immune. Those who were mobian when the BEM did their thing = NOT immune. If anything, we can blame the writers for not making it more clear as to who was and who wasn't immune because when I read that statement by Eggman, I'm seeing it as those who were roboticized and changed back by the BEM are immune.


Now as for this whole Sally being the traitor thing.

Okay, now it's probable that yeah it could be Sally. But not the Sally we know. I find it hard to believe that Sally would just go right ahead and betray everyone, not in her character. She's been fighting the good fight for years.

But we don't have the Sally we know, we have Mecha Sally at the moment, who is loyal to Eggman due to her shiny new metallic coating. She's pretty much gotta do what the obese one wants and seeing as it is Sally in there, Mecha Sally knows everything Sally knows. So if Eggman is all "Btich! Gimme defense plans for New Mobotropolis!" Or "Bitch! Massage my feet and make sure to clean out the toe jam!" She's gotta do it because she's programmed to obey him. Effectively, as long as she is under Eggman control and can give him anything he wants that she knows, she can be considered a traitor, but not a willing traitor.

Sally isn't betraying anyone of her own free choice, she is doing it because she has no free choice of her own.

Harvey Who was all "Yeah, I know who the traitor is and I can you why!" And he'll probably go "It's Sally because she's an evil robot now who has to do whatever the bad man tells her! Quickly Silver-Chan! Go and rescue her because you are brave and don't smell at all like feet!" Or some crap like that and that's if Sally ends up getting de-roboticized at issue #247 like some people are saying.

Either that or Mammoth Mongol is dicking around with the history books that he gave Silver, to alter the time line to get rid of some problems that'll face him, problems like Sally. Effectively, it's more then likely he is trolling the shit out of Silver to do his bidding.

But then again, hasn't Silver come to the past/present/whatever a couple of times to change history to save his time only for nothing to happen? What's to say the same thing won't happen THIS time?


And finally as for the continuity problems with the first season of SatAM?

Well... It was a early 1990s Saturday morning cartoon series. How many saturday morning cartoon shows before then and at that time had a strong sense of continuity? Answer would be very little. Most shows did the "Evil villain has a new plan, heroes stop said villain who runs off in retreat to come back next week with a new plan." And theres also the problem with multiple writers. Shows like Robotech had a much tighter sense of continuity because that show effectively had one writer who wrote all the episodes. Granted continuity there was hard because that show was effectively 3 un-releated anime shows strung together, but the writer did a decent job and made it work.

Season 2 was planned out by Hurst and mostly written by Hurst, sometimes with the help of Pat Allee, or sometimes Pat did a couple of her own, but these two have effectively been writing partners through their time together. The only season 2 episodes not written by these two were two of the four Antoine shorts by Len Janson, the other two were by Pat. And hell, can we even consider these shorts as part of the arc/continuity of season 2? I know I don't, whenever watching season 2, I just skip the shorts.

You guys serious? Juggling three or more books at a time is standard for a LOT of big-name Comic Book writers....

Also it's 4. Sonic, Sonic Universe, Mega Man and New Crusaders. But no writer could survive off the proceeds from one ongoing serial. You guys really don't know how little it pays.

Exactly this. Being a comic writer and artist isn't a high paying job. Oh god, I'm having flashbacks to the Dreamwave days! But hey! It's obvious that fans know what they are talking about since they can write a better comic then the professionals themselves...


ANYWAY!

There's an advantage to having one person work on a comic series and any spin offs linked to it and that's tight continuity. I think a perfect example here would be SatAM itself. In the first season each episode was written by a different writer or writing team and followed the simple Saturday morning cartoon premise of "Evil villian has a new dastardly plot, heroes defeat villian and he retreats only to come back next week with another new evil plan. Wash, rinse, dry, repeat." While the second season (excluding the Antoine shorts) only had Ben Hurst and Pat Allee writing the entire season. It was an arc, each episode linked to the other and had a pay off.

The disadvantage to this though is, yeah, you are bound to run out of ideas sooner or later if it's just one person or a team working on a series all by themselves.

So having multiple writers on your comic? Yeah, that makes it easy on the workload, but there's a disadvantage to this as well and that disadvantage is confliction between the writers about where the story should go. I think it was revealed that Ken "rapist glasses" Penders wasn't exactly a team player during his days at Archie, not working well with other writers and refusing to read anything they had written. This automatically is a problem because continuity and all. I'm pretty sure it was Karl Bollers who had the idea of wiping out a huge number of Echidna characters in issue #141 and Ken Penders was raging hard about it because the Knuckles series was pretty much his baby. How dare Bollers go as far as to kill off his original characters (do not steal!) in such a manner!

So one way or the other, there's gonna be problems.

Sally being rescued and deroboticized in #241 is nothing but speculation at this point. Probably down to the what was said that when this arc started that it would last for the best part of a year and that time is nearly up. But then it was said that it would also last up till the next milestone.

I'm hedging my bets Sally won't be deroboticized by 241 since it just seems something Archie Sonic wouldn't do for a character they have little regard for. No, they'd want to save this for 250 if I know them.

Yeah but that's the thing, you don't know them. You don't know any of the creative team behind that comic and you're just going by what you think and what you believe of them. You are just pissy at them over this current story arc and what they have done to Sally.

Do you really think that they'd hold this character with such small regard if they didn't keep her around. They can do whatever they want with the character and if they hate and despise her like you think they do, they'd of gotten rid of her ages ago. Flynn has been writing this series for the best part of six years, going on seven now and you really think he has waited all this time to get rid of the character now? Hell, he planned on getting rid of Mina because he was open about how much he didn't like that character and yet she's still around. And it was Ian who gave Sally a purpose for being in the comic again after how well Penders and Bollers botched things up starting with #134.

Don't pull the whole "well the fans would stop reading and sales would drop!" excuse because in the world of comics characters die all the time and the books keep selling. They could of killed her off, seen how things went and if by some chance that sales did drop, they could come up with an excuse to bring her back because in comics, if you die, you'll probably be back in less then a year.

And hell, they still continue to include Sally on the covers for the upcoming graphic novels with new artwork. Let's see... On the cover of Best of Sonic the Hedgehog comics Volume 1 we have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, Metal Sonic annnnnd Sally. She's the only comic character on there with the rest being game characters. They could of easily of put Amy or someone else in place, but no they put Sally there. She's also on the cover of the upcoming Super Sonic Digest #1. Does this mean they love the character? No. But if they hate her so much, why go to the trouble of including her in there when they could put another game character on there to appeal to the much wider video game fanbase?

Yeah, the current arc has pissed off a lot of people, you're not alone in that regard, but there are people who are fans of Sally that have been enjoying it. I know a couple of Sally fanboys who are loving this arc and are eager to see how it all comes to it's end.

Not trying to start a fight or anything, but seriously, constantly hearing you complain about how much Archie/Sega/Flynn hate Sally and the other SatAM cast members with no real evidence to back this claim up is has gotten stale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76F0gpCW9x0


The News and panel for Archie's Sonic Comic has come and gone, and here I have some information, that some of you will like and some/most probably won't like.

Comment down below

Nope, not doing it. I'm not sitting here and watching you ramble on for 15 bloody minutes. Can't you just TYPE things? You'd save alot of people's time if you just typed up what you wanted to say.

Look at it this way, in those 15 minutes, how much of it is important and to the point where I can read it in around 2 minutes? This is a discussion board after all, not a place to dump videos of you sitting around, talking about whatever it is that you talk about and take up everyones time.

If you feel the need to do videos, how about also including the parts which are important in text?

Yep, because nothing screams 'self importance' then doing a 40 minute long self interview.