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@  E122Psi : (14 August 2018 - 03:51 AM)

Actually come to think about it, Winnie the Pooh actually had a proto-Julian:

@  E122Psi : (14 August 2018 - 03:49 AM)

Just reminding everyone that Julian Robotnik is back voicing a silly old bear on Thursday. Sadly Princess Sally is not back as Kanga.

@  Ishapar : (14 August 2018 - 03:18 AM)

Chess is centuries old yet it is still a fun game. It doesn't matter how old a game is as long as the game itself is fun and challenging.

@  Uncle Ben : (13 August 2018 - 08:56 PM)

Game is 20 years old...

@  LogiTeeka : (12 August 2018 - 02:46 PM)

Eh. 64 feels dated and kinda boring to me.

@  Ishapar : (10 August 2018 - 03:01 AM)

I played Odyssey a little with my friends, but I became bored with it right away. Mario 64 and Paper Mario are the only Mario games I can come back and play over and over to have fun.

@  Sunnyfruit : (09 August 2018 - 12:44 PM)

I have a Switch but Odyssey feels too much of a collectathon to me. I agree that the game looks gorgeous though.

@  GamemasterAn... : (08 August 2018 - 07:22 AM)

No reference to Captain N, Sakurai? I am disappoint...

@  Uncle Ben : (08 August 2018 - 06:25 AM)

Just announced for Smash Ultimate: Simon Belmont, Ritchie Belmont, Dark Samus, Chrom, and King K.Rool

@  Uncle Ben : (07 August 2018 - 08:30 PM)

Play Odyssey if you can, it's great

@  Sunnyfruit : (07 August 2018 - 05:49 AM)

Mario died with SMW to me, and even there he was just a boring second. Kirby's the dreaded challenger

@  Ishapar : (07 August 2018 - 03:57 AM)

Sonic fanbase talking positively about the rival mascot. Yeah, I think Sonic is really tapping his foot on this one...

@  RedAuthar : (05 August 2018 - 08:13 PM)

But You should totally make a thread about doing a SatAM styled Mario series.

@  RedAuthar : (05 August 2018 - 08:11 PM)

SatAM was taking a, at the time, rather storyless project that was pretty light hearted in appearance to something a bit more storydriven and darker. Nintendo's would be Advance Wars Days of Ruin compared to the lighthearted Advance Wars series. Metroid doesn't fit as it was already dark.
I mean Samus has lights on her armor for a reason.

@  Quickster : (05 August 2018 - 07:51 AM)

I never saw that movie (thank goodness). I AM, however, hyped for the upcoming Mario movie.

@  GamemasterAn... : (05 August 2018 - 06:38 AM)

Sadly, I think one of the only good things about that movie was Bob Hoskin's portrayal of Mario.

@  Clocktopus : (02 August 2018 - 11:54 AM)

good point

@  LogiTeeka : (01 August 2018 - 10:38 PM)

I'd argue that the SatAM equivalent to Mario was the infamous live-action movie. It's the same general premise, but darker and a generally different interpretation of the source material.

@  Sunnyfruit : (01 August 2018 - 02:20 AM)

Now of course it's entirely different on the other themes.

@  Sunnyfruit : (01 August 2018 - 02:16 AM)

As for a Nintendo equivalent of SatAM, I'd be tempted to say Metroid, since it shares similar themes in its direction: morally gray technology, adventuring in an oppressive techbase, feeling of being alien and outnumbered yet heroic.


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Pick One Sonic Game Character To Join Satam And Explain Why


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#21 RedAuthar

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 08:06 PM

Wasn't there a debate on the forum a while back complaining that Robotnik wasn't the main villain often enough? My times have changed. xD

#22 Sunnyfruit

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:45 AM

Hmm, I admit I also say that sometimes...

 

My take:

- Main Villain plans must be actually well-thought and threatening by themselves (no let's abuse the last McGuffin in existence)

- There must be multiple factions including the Heroes, Main Villain being the most threatening of them but the others having their own interests and resources instead of being just mercenaries

- The Heroes victory part must be between 40% and 80%, given the gravity of the situation and the numbers of opposing sides which all need their shares. No return to Initial Situation which must be seen as obsolete.

 

Stuff like Monster of the Week Slot Machine just totally murdered that. And it doesn't need to be gritty either, Sonic Boom didn't include all of these to the levels I'm saying but is way more near this ideal than anything produced by SEGA this last decade.

 

Also more than Mario, this reminds me of Castlevania where Dracula became a joke inside of his own canon before being reincarnated into an anime boy because.



#23 RedAuthar

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:33 AM

I disagree that the main villain should be the most powerful.

Example: Magneto is the X-Men's main villain, and can be quite powerful, but Apocalypse is just more so.
Example 2: M Bison is the main villain of the Street Fighter Franchise, but Akuma is far more dangerous and powerful.
Example 3: The Zeti are the main villains of Sonic Lost World. However Eggman actually is more powerful. Just not physically.

In the case of Sonic, Robotnik is the main villain as he's the most reoccurring or the main target they oppose. Other villains can and should take the position of most powerful as the struggle continues. This allows the villain to grow and change as well.

This is why I actually prefer Eggman to Robotnik. Robotnik is a better villain, more threatening and more powerful. Heck he's already won, all Sonic and co are doing is resisting. That's why he can spend time yet not all his forces to combat them. But Eggman is a better character. He has problems to face, competing enemies, can play more than one role in an episode.

You wouldn't mind an episode of Boom revolving around Eggman as he's interesting enough in his own right. However you wouldn't want one revolve around Robotnik as it would humanize him. He loses his edge. That's why the villain centric episodes tend to focus on Snively not Robotnik in SatAM.

#24 Silent X

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 03:37 PM

You wouldn't mind an episode of Boom revolving around Eggman as he's interesting enough in his own right. However you wouldn't want one revolve around Robotnik as it would humanize him. He loses his edge. That's why the villain centric episodes tend to focus on Snively not Robotnik in SatAM.

 

See this is why I would have loved to see the direction his character would have taken in season 3 with Naugus coming into play. Buttnik would have been Naugus' bitch to the point where he might have become more of a sympathetic character.



#25 Sunnyfruit

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 04:25 PM

I disagree that the main villain should be the most powerful.

Example: Magneto is the X-Men's main villain, and can be quite powerful, but Apocalypse is just more so.
Example 2: M Bison is the main villain of the Street Fighter Franchise, but Akuma is far more dangerous and powerful.
Example 3: The Zeti are the main villains of Sonic Lost World. However Eggman actually is more powerful. Just not physically.

In the case of Sonic, Robotnik is the main villain as he's the most reoccurring or the main target they oppose. Other villains can and should take the position of most powerful as the struggle continues. This allows the villain to grow and change as well.

This is why I actually prefer Eggman to Robotnik. Robotnik is a better villain, more threatening and more powerful. Heck he's already won, all Sonic and co are doing is resisting. That's why he can spend time yet not all his forces to combat them. But Eggman is a better character. He has problems to face, competing enemies, can play more than one role in an episode.

You wouldn't mind an episode of Boom revolving around Eggman as he's interesting enough in his own right. However you wouldn't want one revolve around Robotnik as it would humanize him. He loses his edge. That's why the villain centric episodes tend to focus on Snively not Robotnik in SatAM.

 

When I said threatening, I don't mean powerful, I mean threatening to the main characters for various reasons. Location, informations, etc. But, if some villain is more powerful, s/he also needs to either be more far away or have her/his reasons not to directly confront the main characters in the long term, otherwise, the opposition main hero/main villain wouldn't make sense given the configuration of events.

 

I agree with you on Robotnik, actually. It would be okay if he was just evil, but he's so rotten and disloyal he quickly becomes boring if he gets the spotlight. On the other hand, Robotnik has a mysterious past all written around his design while Eggman even if I really like his appearance (way more than his Modern one) still is very generic. Also at least he's not Underground Robotnik who's both boring AND bland. This is why I'd have episodes revolving and humanizing SatAM Robotnik. The whole spacemen stuff as an origin was okay and SA2 at least showed the Robotnik family could get some more development. And I liked when in the comic, Ian made him both a manchild and a murderous tech-obsessed dictator.



#26 RedAuthar

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 09:35 PM

 

You wouldn't mind an episode of Boom revolving around Eggman as he's interesting enough in his own right. However you wouldn't want one revolve around Robotnik as it would humanize him. He loses his edge. That's why the villain centric episodes tend to focus on Snively not Robotnik in SatAM.

 

See this is why I would have loved to see the direction his character would have taken in season 3 with Naugus coming into play. Buttnik would have been Naugus' bitch to the point where he might have become more of a sympathetic character.

 

Which is entirely possible, but I think that would take away his charm.  Personally I hated Naugus's intro episode because it's just overall weird, and made Robotnik seem very weak.

 

That said, you could always replace that by changing the dynamic...so maybe?  It would have had to pan out I guess for us to know if it would work.  

 

Also just to note:  I know Ben Hurst said it was his plan to have Naugus take over as villain, but when we last left him, he actually had left on good terms with the heroes.  I feel we miss a step with him being evil immediately after that.  Not that's it's bad, just like we missed an episode. 

 

When I said threatening, I don't mean powerful, I mean threatening to the main characters for various reasons. Location, informations, etc. But, if some villain is more powerful, s/he also needs to either be more far away or have her/his reasons not to directly confront the main characters in the long term, otherwise, the opposition main hero/main villain wouldn't make sense given the configuration of events.

 

True.  It's part of the reason Robotnik/Eggman being the main villain can be weird.  If he control 90ish percent of the planet, why does he waste his time with a small group or resistance fighters?  The heroes should have to work up the ladder to face him.   Start him as the ultimate goal, but not the first villain.  But that's a bit off topic.  So I leave that alone for now.  

 

 

And I liked when in the comic, Ian made him both a manchild and a murderous tech-obsessed dictator.

 

I whole heatedly agree.  The story is about Sonic AND Robotnik.  Robotnik should be just as interesting to follow.  By making him more chaotic, makes him more interesting.

 

That said, interesting doesn't always mean good.  I do think Archie Robotnik (specifically post the breakdown) is the best in that regard.  Being a bit whimsical but still a danger.  But go to far and he becomes AoStH Robotnik, too chaotic, not enough threat.  Go the other way and he becomes too psychotic.  I guess Sonic the Comic Robotnik is a close example, but not really, because he's really good too.  Basically he becomes too wild and too out there to be likable. 



#27 E122Psi

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:04 AM

I think that was sometimes the problem with Satam Robotnik. The show was maybe a little TOO set on making the ultimate vile and sinister overlord and since the heroes weren't allowed to overthrow him until the very end, he had a HUGE reputation to upkeep. There were elements of them wanting to make him a bit more comical and human (while still lacking in redeeming qualities) such as The Void, but I think they had to keep them on a leash. At times it was already difficult to comprehend this guy could keep control of a planet for a decade.

 

At times giving the villain more POV also helps make their plans more believable when they temporarily succeed, since we see the whole process and how they've  somehow struggled and bumbled their way to the top. Robotnik lacked this for his coup in SatAm for example, which meant we were more reliant on his pawns looking exceptionally careless. Archie Robotnik from what I remember did give a little more limelight to him keeping his dupe under wraps and, despite the comics Robotnik not being as sinister, it made his plan more believable considering the circumstances.

 

Jafar from Aladdin is also another good example of a villain that gets a lot of limelight and whose plan is shown in full action up to when it temporarily succeeds. This works in allowing Jafar to look competent and malicious in spite of still being rather clownish and fallible. Compare this to the growing number of 'secretly evil' villains in the Disney series who we don't see the thought process of and when they do reveal themselves turn out to be extremely arrogant chaotic individuals that let themselves be outgambitted rather easily. The substance is gone.



#28 Sunnyfruit

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 04:02 PM

I could be overinterpretating but I liked how Robotnik was made in SatAM around season 2. The show made clear that Robotnik was slowly taking the edge over the FFs to the point he could easily trap them, yet he kept playing with them and giving them chances to outsmart him. It's a twisted form of fair play in a brain game where Robotnik is a direct opponent with a pride instead of a generic evil overlord, it humanizes him somehow in my opinion and gives more weight to each episode.

 

Or maybe he was way more careful and conscious of his moves that what we thought. I would have liked a S3 where a Snively full of hubris tries to play dirty and make moves his uncle declined to do only to realize at the end that Robotnik foresaw consequences he didn't. Freeing Naugus would have been a prime example of that. Building a Metal Sonic that turned against him could have been another.

 

But heh, if Robotnik was indeed behind Nicole, him making her an AI godess then forgetting about it was pretty dumb. His greatest assets were his total lack of principles and his ruthlessness, neither being the marks of a genius. No "master plan" was ever shown, the Doomsday project being "add more guns". The show implies, but unfortunately it doesn't go further.



#29 E122Psi

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Posted 18 hours ago

I didn't mind Robotnik being more of arrogant clown in Season Two since it gave him more character, just as said, the show still wanted to present him as this ultimate threat that was competent enough to keep control of the world for over a decade. I mean take Sonic Conversation, look how easily Sonic manhandled Robotnik, for a mere idle distraction no less. What was stopping him from just capturing him and ending his rule then and there?

 

I feel like they should have kept Robotnik's briefer tenure in control that was implied in the show's bible and early comics, that would make his slow fall from grace more believable. Like Eggman in Forces for example, he has just enough fearsomeness that you could buy him BRIEFLY taking over and being a real problem for the heroes, but he just doesn't think things through or keep his own arrogance in check enough to KEEP things that way. Snively would likely represent an even greater example of that.

 

I feel like they should have also played more into Robotnik manipulating people other than Sonic. It was mostly the same formula in Season Two with Sonic's recklessness and arrogance being used to get the upper hand with the others undoing things without too much trouble, which mostly meant only Sonic was being made stupider to get the plot running. Sally if anything was far more immune to Robotnik's traps and Dulcy was seldom weak to him at all, in fact often it felt like the only reason she couldn't topple most of his plans was because she was conviniently sidelined. Maybe a 'darker and edgier' version of Boom Eggman, where Robotnik surveillanced the heroes and knew each and every one of their weak points and when the ideal time to exploit them was. Like being smart enough to know Sally would take the more cautious route and outgambitting her own savviness, making parts of Robotropolis look intentionally suspicious so she'd avoid and fall right into it.

 

There's often a problem balancing the amount of character agency between a hero and a villain, too often when one's role becomes driven by their own personality, the other starts to turn more into a prop driven by how the formula leads them or being competent or stupid depending on what it demands.






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