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@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 11:25 AM)

Also I still have to figure out how to set up our e-mail accounts on the new host.

@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 08:19 AM)

As soon as I figure out how to restore it. Sorry, I know I said it'd be done by now, but I didn't expect to have to put up with this DNS crap and other issues that popped up.

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 07:56 AM)

So when's the black theme coming back??

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 07:56 AM)

"Should"

@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 07:27 AM)

That DNS took longer to propagate properly than I thought it would. *Now* we should be back for good, though.

@  furrykef : (23 July 2015 - 08:48 PM)

Or it might be because Bluehost *finally* got around to that server wipe (one week after we'd asked for it) and that wiped out our DNS settings. I'm not sure which and I don't really care. In any case, we've severed our last ties with Bluehost, so this will not happen again.

@  furrykef : (23 July 2015 - 08:08 PM)

Looks like Bluehost yanked our DNS since our hosting account expired. That's why the site went down a while ago. But as you can see, it's fixed now.

@  Misk : (23 July 2015 - 04:55 PM)

No, they do not.

@  furrykef : (23 July 2015 - 04:27 AM)

The goggles do nothing?

@  Misk : (22 July 2015 - 05:50 PM)

My eyes.

@  furrykef : (22 July 2015 - 12:24 PM)

Looks like forum uploads might have been broken since last night. That should be fixed now too.

@  furrykef : (22 July 2015 - 01:33 AM)

Heh, whoops! Server went down for a few mins when I borked the config. Looks like it's back up now.

@  Uncle Ben : (21 July 2015 - 09:09 PM)

It looked like a napkin

@  ILOVEVHS : (21 July 2015 - 09:04 PM)

Fan-fuckin-tastic.

@  furrykef : (21 July 2015 - 08:25 PM)

As for the beaver picture while the forum was down, I think Tim drew it. On a napkin.

@  furrykef : (21 July 2015 - 08:24 PM)

No kiddin' about that "Finally!", Shadow. I am *so mad* at Bluehost for never responding to our support ticket. I submitted it early Friday morning and they *still* haven't answered it!

@  Uncle Ben : (21 July 2015 - 06:37 PM)

Maybe he did that himself

@  Shadow : (21 July 2015 - 05:25 PM)

Say, who made the cute picture of Beaver Chief?

@  Shadow : (21 July 2015 - 05:24 PM)

Finally!

@  RedMenace : (21 July 2015 - 05:02 PM)

Woooo! The site's back up! Three cheers for Kef!


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Archie Comics Overview


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14 replies to this topic

#1 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

I've been reading Archie StH comics at a somewhat slow pace up to issue #32 (which btw has quite an unexpected cover design if you know what I mean).

Spoiler

I have a few questions about Archie's main Sonic comics series I want to ask.

 

Archie's StH comic begins on a lighthearted tone, similar to AoStH cartoon as it was based off of early Satam designs and directions, before its actual production. After a while (~issue #15) it comes a bit closer to actual Satam, roughly coinciding with Ken Penders becoming its co-writer and sometimes artist. Albeit becoming more interesting to read, my impression is that Penders was quite dissatisfied with the characters and/or the story, so the storyline starts constantly shifting into various parallel universes, as we start seing "evil" and out-of-character versions of the cast and some imagerie clearly made for shock purpose. E.g. Sonic punching Sally in the face, Sonic beating up every Freedom Fighters member, Sally's reckless and useless willing short-term roboticisation, Sally being kissed by almost a stranger only to later that day be kissing him willingly herself (out of nowhere, mouth to mouth, not a friendly smooch on the cheek and in front of everyone, I should mention). Also constant mentioning that previously shown distant future of the series (with SonSal kids) is merely a one in a million outcome in endless possible universes, which is hardly ever expected to come to pass.

 

So I want to ask, how much more of this is to be expected as opposed to previously canon SonSal relationship and Freedom Fighters being the heroes and good guys (instead of "what-ifs")? I know there have been plans to kill off Sally in #50, then some major argument between Sonic and Sally, ending their relationship completely for a while, also this whole huge Sally roboticisation arc somewhere in ~#200-250,  and that in the latest comics both of them are kind of indifferent to each other. However I also heard that ~#40-50 issues are pretty good and that Ian Flynn has shifted the direction of the plot for some time in a good way. Which issues are considered to be better than the rest by the fans? Which did you like the most? When (if) have you stopped reading them and why exactly?



#2 RedAuthar

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Well I have no exact favorite place in the comic. In fact I think the lowest points were the early ones that were less story driven.

Currently I'm still reading and have no desire to stop as though the new direction is different I don't find it bad.

And my personal favorite story arc was the Sonic adventure one, but that is mostly because of nostalgia rather than quality as it was my introduction to sonic in general.

#3 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

The earlier #15-32 issues are mostly hit or miss. Some stories are interesting, some stories are clearly made to print the monthly issue and forget about them in a second, without much care for continuity or characrter integrity. Some drawing is great, some is sloppy, etc.

 

I don't mind the occasional dull or irrelevant plots as long as there are great ones to keep me engaged. However I find myself deeply disencouraged to read on when I stumble upon some of the examples I mentioned in OP. Tails complaining about Robotnik "robbing him of his innocence" with a vixen robot is kind of bizarre, but also fun. Like what have they been doing on that island for him to say that? =) But Sally kissing some Geoffrey St. John guy, who the writers have just come up with, in #31 is directly tampering with an established character withour rhyme or reason, I mean what's up with that?!

 

The engaging plot is good and all, but I just want to hope there's something there for a guy like me, who cares about SonSal and Sally staying the character I've grown to love in Satam. If only for a couple dozen issues.



#4 RedAuthar

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Posted 2 weeks ago

 

 Geoffrey St. John guy, who the writers have just come up with, in #31 is directly tampering with an established character withour rhyme or reason, I mean what's up with that?!

You mean Sally romancing Sonic wasn't?  Didn't the writer of SatAM just pull Sally herself out of nowhere?  And nowhere did the Comics claim to be a continuation of the show so they don't have to follow the show's canon.  

 

Also there was a Princess Sally Mini-Series where Sally met Geoffrey.  Like all comics, reading the main line only doesn't give the full story.  

 

 

Tails complaining about Robotnik "robbing him of his innocence" with a vixen robot is kind of bizarre, but also fun. Like what have they been doing on that island for him to say that?

Fiona the False Fox (not to be confused with actual Fiona) was a robot duplicate that Robotnik used to seduce Tails.  Really it was nothing more than him falling in love and her trying to kill him but...still.



#5 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

 

 

 Geoffrey St. John guy, who the writers have just come up with, in #31 is directly tampering with an established character withour rhyme or reason, I mean what's up with that?!

You mean Sally romancing Sonic wasn't?  Didn't the writer of SatAM just pull Sally herself out of nowhere?  And nowhere did the Comics claim to be a continuation of the show so they don't have to follow the show's canon.  

 

Also there was a Princess Sally Mini-Series where Sally met Geoffrey.  Like all comics, reading the main line only doesn't give the full story.  

Yes, Sally and the whole FF/Knothole story was created from scratch specifically for Satam. Yes, Archie comics are a mish-mash of AoStH, Satam, various Sega games and their own original ideas, so they can basically do whatever they please as long as Sega approves. But that's kind of my point. I'm not arguing they have no right to do the things I don't want them to. I'm trying to grasp whether I myself can accept their direction and thus asking what that direction is. Archie comics are the closest official medium to have a connection with Satam, and the farther apart it goes from it, the less I'm interested. That's why I'm asking whether I should set my expectations higher or lower. Because I know I would hate the guts of it if all they do is butcher the characters and setting I've set myself to read about. The latest redesign may actually be better in that regard as a different take might make me appeciate it for what it is. However there's some uncanny valley-like effect of seing a character you're fond of, but with a couple of crucial tweaks here and there. It's like some questionable fan-fiction, which changes just a couple of things about the source material, that in the end repulses you. E.g., everything's the same, but character X is also really fat and character Y is also a prostitute. Ok, author, that's your "vision" or fetish or whatever, I'm not interested. That's the way I see that kiss - a precedent of sudden character shift, which has no purpose and no explanation. It would have never happened in Satam under any circumstances. Not without additional explanation or motivation (maybe not even then as it's pretty graphic). It's just not Sally's character trait. She is used to kissing her saviours and those who make her really emotional. On the cheek, like a friend or even a relative. She accepts flirting because she's flattered, because Sonic often lacks in that department and is actually asking for it with his behaviour. Yet that is always portrayed elegantly, you as an audience are always assured that she's not serious and the sole purpose is to keep Sonic on his toes. The Archie version in #31 is anything but elegant and it is only exacerbated by the editor's remark asking the readers to write whether they want her to stay with that character or the other. So they (Penders?) are serious about the whole thing.

 

About Geoffrey, I didn't mean that they have literally came up with him on the spot in this very issue, but rather that he's a very recent character, has little to no development and significance to the story. He has appeared only once prior to the episode with both kisses, in an aforementioned short story. Neither of which imply any attraction between them. Geoffrey's behavior and mannerisms are part of his suggested character, not a sign of any real feelings towards Sally. He hasn't done anything to really impress her (he mistrusted her, put her in danger of explosion and treated her like a stupid bimbo) and there currently wasn't any score to settle with Sonic for her to purposefully make him jealous, so there's no motivation on Sally's part either. And if all this is simply implied and you have to use your imagination to fill in the gaps - yet even then it's hardly appropriate for just about anyone with dignity to kiss on the goddamn mouth! It's wrong on so many levels. It has been established time and time again (in Archie comics too) that Sonic and Sally are a couple, so being into making out with random guys, liking crude mannerisms and enjoying being grabbed and suddenly kissed by strangers comes out of nowhere. That's the thing I really dislike - making someone act out of character to fit the author's agenda. That's why I, for example, strongly disagree with very common oversexualing - artists often make female characters overly eroticized in order to gain cheap attention and praise.

 

If the writers wanted to make a romance story arc, they should've provided the context and the motivation for it. Like Sonic and Sally breaking up. But still, characters don't change overnight without major shocking experiences, so it either has to be done in spite of something, while in emotional flux and then end with restored status quo, apologies and more bonding. Or it has to be a major decision for the characters, made overtime, while analyzing the reasons and weighing the pros and cons, so that you feel its significance for them and feel their struggle of change. Otherwise it looks shallow and stupid.



#6 LogiTeeka

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Makes it all the more awkward when you realize that Geoffrey was sorta Penders' pet character. That's not even getting into the age difference. Sometime after "Endgame" (I forget when), there was an article containing information about the character which revealed Geoffrey was in his 30's by the time he joined the FFs. Compared to Sally's official age, which is 16, this makes their old relationship downright creepy.

Of course, considering his true allegiance, it doesn't surprise me all that much.

#7 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Makes it all the more awkward when you realize that Geoffrey was sorta Penders' pet character. That's not even getting into the age difference. Sometime after "Endgame" (I forget when), there was an article containing information about the character which revealed Geoffrey was in his 30's by the time he joined the FFs. Compared to Sally's official age, which is 16, this makes their old relationship downright creepy.

Of course, considering his true allegiance, it doesn't surprise me all that much.

Then it only confirms Penders' contempt towards Freedom Fighters and Sally in particular. This is sort of his way of looking at Sally's character. He feels nothing for her and wants to see her treated the way Geoffrey does. Like "Cmon, babe, gimme some sugar and then make me a sammich while real men get things done!" aaaand she's supposed to like it. Bleh!



#8 RedAuthar

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Again there is a three issue mini series where Sally and Geoffery's relationship was introduced and explored. This was to allow Sal and Sonic to have "relationship drama" as now Sally has another option. It isn't bad by any means. Geoffrey is a good foil for Sonic, being very gentlemanly up front but generally manipulative and untrustworthy beneath, justifying the means by the end. Sonic being kind of a rebellious teen but does the right thing because it is right.
The story actually get more interesting as Sal does pick Sonic over him and he starts manipulating things behind the scenes to keep them apart. He also takes over the kingdom by manipulating Elias (Sally's older brother who supposedly died when she was an infant. It's all in a knuckles comic). He makes a good anti-hero and villian. It was actually when he started dating Hershey and being a generally nice guy that he became bland. (That and relationship drama became "son/Sal walk in on the other doing something that makes them think the other has moved on, causing the other to think they've moved on, rinse and repeat)

Also Geoffery is shown to have been a kid (albeit older than Sonic and co) before the coup.

And he is based off a background character in SatAm.

Makes it all the more awkward when you realize that Geoffrey was sorta Penders' pet character. That's not even getting into the age difference. Sometime after "Endgame" (I forget when), there was an article containing information about the character which revealed Geoffrey was in his 30's by the time he joined the FFs. Compared to Sally's official age, which is 16, this makes their old relationship downright creepy.

Of course, considering his true allegiance, it doesn't surprise me all that much.

Then it only confirms Penders' contempt towards Freedom Fighters and Sally in particular. This is sort of his way of looking at Sally's character. He feels nothing for her and wants to see her treated the way Geoffrey does. Like "Cmon, babe, gimme some sugar and then make me a sammich while real men get things done!" aaaand she's supposed to like it. Bleh!
From a writer's perspective previously established characters are a death sentence. You can't change things too much as it upsets fans, and anyone you add to the story isn't good enough to be a major player. From a writer's point of view the reboot is a miracle as it gives them free range to establish the world as they see fit without worry as this is a a different universe.

#9 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Oh, I see what you mean. There actually was a standalone 3-part mini series about Sally, which I missed. Gotta read that first.



#10 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Ok, now that I've read the mini-series, my "complete stranger" argument goes out of the window with "mr St. John" turning up to be a bit more interesting character. Him being through some stuff together with Sally could make both more interested in one another indeed. However there's yet another awkward out of nowhere kiss. I'd argue that Penders has no respect for source material, which is why this "relationship" is portrayed this way. I could buy it if Geoffrey made a compliment, which made her blush and imply she might have feelings for him. Hell, I can even accept him outright kissing her as that's how far his attitude goes. However Sally should be irritated by such a blunt act, perhaps with mixed feelings as she could've actually enjoyed it on some level. Yet the way she's making the first move and flirting with him, then willingly full on kissing him over a background full of hearts, then kissing him in front of everyone ... Nope, not believable.

 

He should've been the one to make the move and she should've been somewhat into him - not the other way around. Keeping Sonic on his toes is a good thing - it offsets his self-centered personality. Having other potential love interests is a good thing - it opens up lots of stories to tell. But the thing is - it has to come out natural from character interaction, with respects to their personality. It should've been an attempt to establish a potential love triangle for Sonic to be challenged with. Yet what I've seen there is just a writer, who wanted Sally French-kissing someone other than Sonic.



#11 RedAuthar

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Well thus far in the comic she shouldn't be French kissing Sonic either. They've shown to like each other but not until 50 do they openly admit it and attempt to go for it.

#12 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

I agree, Archie has really downplayed their relationship thus far. That's why it's a good opportunity to introduce someone else (as long as no one still want to explore Antoine's affection more seriously). But the opportunity is not an excuse to make Sally act in such a weird way. Unless they want to make her an easily falling in love head over heels character, which in my opinion strongly contradicts even her Archie personality and brings me back to the very beginning.

 

The writers sought to make easy sensations in StH comics at that time. I'm quite sure the plot was developed around that. We need sensation. How about the unexpected - Sonic punches Sally in the face? How can we make that happen? What's next? Sonic is thought to be KIA, Sally roboticisised, Sally goes wild over some other character but Sonic. A questionable direction made at the expense of real character development.



#13 Uncle Ben

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Well thus far in the comic she shouldn't be French kissing Sonic either. They've shown to like each other but not until 50 do they openly admit it and attempt to go for it.

 

And then comes the awkward and poorly written love triangles


Some say that he knows 2 facts about ducks, and both of them are wrong. And that 61 years ago he accidentally introduced Her Majesty The Queen to a Greek racialist. All we know is, I'm going to the tower now to have my head cut off, and he is called The Stig.

#14 RedAuthar

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Posted 2 weeks ago

I agree, Archie has really downplayed their relationship thus far. That's why it's a good opportunity to introduce someone else (as long as no one still want to explore Antoine's affection more seriously). But the opportunity is not an excuse to make Sally act in such a weird way. Unless they want to make her an easily falling in love head over heels character, which in my opinion strongly contradicts even her Archie personality and brings me back to the very beginning.

 

The writers sought to make easy sensations in StH comics at that time. I'm quite sure the plot was developed around that. We need sensation. How about the unexpected - Sonic punches Sally in the face? How can we make that happen? What's next? Sonic is thought to be KIA, Sally roboticisised, Sally goes wild over some other character but Sonic. A questionable direction made at the expense of real character development.

You also have to remember issues are separated by a month and was targeted to younger audiences.  Character development has to be balanced.  Too much and it becomes too complex for one issue.  If a storyline lasts more than 4 issues, most fans lose interest because it takes 4 months.  

 

Not that they get a free pass, but at the same time they have to do it differently then the show due to the different medium.  

 

 

 

Well thus far in the comic she shouldn't be French kissing Sonic either. They've shown to like each other but not until 50 do they openly admit it and attempt to go for it.

 

And then comes the awkward and poorly written love triangles

 

Correction, poorly executed.  The love triangles all made sense and would have worked greatly.....if they didn't make it that son/Sal walk in on the other doing something that makes them think the other has moved on, causing the other to think they've moved on, rinse and repeat.



#15 Nightmus

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Posted 2 weeks ago

Well, to be frank, I didn't take into consideration that there were 1 month gaps between issues, but you can still write a credible relationship with such constraints. They were printing a 3 issues mini-series anyway, The kiss which startled me in the main storyline was clearly a bait to make readers want to buy the mini-series to find out what the hell has happened (I mistook it for the previous 3 short stories with Sally in main comic series). Still, they could easily make the world of difference with just a couple of small changes. Holding hands and sharing a couple of phrases that nobody else hears would've been enough. The rest of the characters still discuss it in the next couple of panels, so you can explain everything you need to every possible demographic. Moreover, you can direct the story any way you like with Sonic's reaction. Cut the kiss, let Tails voice the wildest assumptions, make Sonic more concerned about the whole thing and there you go - a perfect hook for readers.

 

Sally shouldn't have shared such passionate kisses with anyone at that point, period. I probably sound like a broken record.  :sally:  :wub_anim:






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