15 replies to this topic

[Vampfox]

In the new Archie Sonic universe Nicole was created by Dr Ellidy instead of future Rotor.

Dr Ellidy

 

Dr Ellidy created Nicole to map out the neural pathways of the mind digitally in an attempt to save the life of his daughter Nikki.

Nikki

 

Dr Ellidy's attempt failed.

So what does everyone think of Nicole's new backstory?

 

[LogiTeeka]

I really like it. It adds a lot to Nicole's creation and backstory, as well as her personality. It also provides an explanation behind Sally's relationship with her.

Much better than her origonal origin story, in which she was sent from the future by Rotor. I mean, of what importance did her futuristic origins add to her character? Nothing. You could've easily had her be some sort of computer that Sally bought somewhere, and it wouldn't have changed anything. Instead, Penders decided to give her the most convoluted backstory possible just for the sake of giving her one.

Also, I prefer Dr. Ellidy over Nate Morgan. Where Nate Morgan was just a bland character whose role could've easily been filled by Rotor or Uncle Chuck, Dr. Ellidy has a personality, as well as guilt and an inner conflict (that being the death of his daughter and his failure to bring her back).

[Lynchenberg]

It worked fine for what they're trying to do. But for me, I still don't like Nicole as a Lynx or hologram. Never have. As a Lynx she just seems like a leftover from the anime fad. I think having an A.I. that slowly develops a sense of humor and human emotion while still remaining a computer is charming. I loved it in the second season of SatAM and I loved how Mike Gallagher handled it by making her snarky and kind of proud of being a computer. One of my favorite lines in the old continuity was in the Sabrina crossover where Nicole says to Sally regarding Sonic, "Men, can't live with them; can't reprogram their mother boards." She's sassy, but she's a computer. As such doesn't quite get people. That's a great idea for a character. I know i'm in the minority on that, but I kind of wish she'd been returned to Sally's snarky, hand-held computer/conscience in the reboot. 

[LogiTeeka]

It worked fine for what they're trying to do. But for me, I still don't like Nicole as a Lynx or hologram. Never have. As a Lynx she just seems like a leftover from the anime fad. I think having an A.I. that slowly develops a sense of humor and human emotion while still remaining a computer is charming. I loved it in the second season of SatAM and I loved how Mike Gallagher handled it by making her snarky and kind of proud of being a computer. One of my favorite lines in the old continuity was in the Sabrina crossover where Nicole says to Sally regarding Sonic, "Men, can't live with them; can't reprogram their mother boards." She's sassy, but she's a computer. As such doesn't quite get people. That's a great idea for a character. I know i'm in the minority on that, but I kind of wish she'd been returned to Sally's snarky, hand-held computer/conscience in the reboot.

She was originally a handheld in the reboot, but her programming gradually grew as she became more conscious, eventually forming a Mobian avatar to interact with others. She's still attached to her handheld computer, but her Lynx avatar allows her to be more useful while out in the field.

Ben Hurst had similar ideas for her, so it doesn't seem that out of place.

[Lynchenberg]

I know about Hurst's ideas, and I think they were too dark for an official Sonic cartoon or comic. I just don't like the idea that she feels she needs a "body" or the idea that she once was or is "human." I think she works best as a cross between Sally's ipad and sassy-older sister; passing down advice in detached, but humorous way. There's a line in Scud the Disposable Assassin that reflects how I'd like to see Nicole handled. Scud's a comic about a robot superhero, and in one issue, someone tells him he's been inspired by him to make a movie about a robot. But at the end, the robot gets to become human as a reward for his heroism. Allow me to paraphrase Scud's response: "Don't turn the guy into Pinocchio, that's been done. My motto since this began is that it's cool to be a robot. Make him proud of who he is and you've got my ten bucks." I stand by that. It's purely personal taste though. I liked how Nicole was handled in the Gallagher comics and first two seasons of SatAM the best. I know I'm in the minority on that and it's okay. Different people like different things.

[RedAuthar]

I like Nicole's new backstory. I agree that the future Rotor thing was a dumb idea. I also like how this gives Nicole's choice of a Lynx form more sense.

[DCC]

Nicole's backstory does sound good. Ariche and Sega are going to have to make major changes though(at least making Sonic and Sally a permament couple, and it would be nice if they brought back Sonic's family) if I am ever going to buy the comic book again.

[LogiTeeka]

Nicole's backstory does sound good. Ariche and Sega are going to have to make major changes though(at least making Sonic and Sally a permament couple, and it would be nice if they brought back Sonic's family) if I am ever going to buy the comic book again.

It will be a cold day in hell when SEGA decides to give them permission to do that.

Sonic having a romantic relationship with Sally is something that isn't necessarily needed in the comics for it to be enjoyed. But Sonic having parents is another can of worms. Not only is Sonic officially considered an orphan, but the parents he was given in the comics were created by the guy who nearly destroyed the franchise. It's something we all have to live with.

[RedAuthar]

I think the potential for relationships is enough. No couple is going to please everyone, so rather establish official couples, just allow them to have romantic possiblity.

[ZealousFoX]

I like the new backstory to a point, but there are a lot of flaws within it. Hmm... Lets see. Post Genesis wave everyone loses memory of the previous timeline/Universe. All except Nicole and Eggman (It seemed at first) So once the main F.F. cast touch Nicole they learn of the afformentioned said universe/timline. Yet here's where things start to crumble with this new backstory, and in my observations. Could potentially be a more problematic story compared to the Mobius Prime worlds version for Nicole. Okay so we have Ellidy and this Nikki character. Which the fact Ellidy's daughters name is Nikki, in my mind is kinda a rip off on my Welcome To Mobius (WTM) and EoT's work, but I'll let that slide. So again we have Nikki who is suffering from a severe health issue, and two bright minds are trying to figure it out. Chuck and Dr. Ellidy. Chuck is trying through his Roboticizor (nod to BTTP) While Ellidy is going the pro version akin to how hurst had Nicole in his notes (AKA Kintobor killing her off and tossing her into a hand held unit). Now within part 3 of 4 in "The Spark of Life". Nicole brings up her knowledge of the alteration in continuity. She keeps a full reveal hidden very well, except this is where everything falls apart. So Ellidy know's about Nicole being the cause of her daughters demise, and yet Nicole is from a different continuity, and knowledge of that world. Yet somehow knows this one all the way back to a simular Mobotropolis time akin to BTTP? How can she know two timelines/Universes with her severed connection from Mobius Prime. Which would delete her from existance in this new timeline. Yet again here she is, retaining all her previous features while still gaining new ones, and at the end of part 4 she brings up the fact she knew from the beginning that Ellidy was her creator/father. And that she understood his distaste towards her. Which again breaks everything within both continuities (Pre-Gen and current) And to be honest the whole current world is riddle with inconsistancies and flaws. But while I did enjoy this "arc" mainly for numerous nods to SatAM and Hurst. I will not be assimulated into a follower of what the current world has, and just... Except it. It has way to many circutries cracked, wires missing, cores losing power, coding scambled, and software broken to be worth the praise several people are giving it. 

 

Now I realise this was no longer just a reply about Nicole, but I had to bring up my feelings in general as I can't stay in the shadows any longer. I also see that I have put quite a bit of text in this post, so I can understand if I get a speed read, and then a response that has nothing to do with what I was getting at. That I can can see as a possibilty, but so be it I guess.

 

Also... Yay my first post in a plethera of months... Woo Hoo! That is all from me for now... Move along.       

[LogiTeeka]

Chances are that Nicole's memories of the old universe were erased along with everyone else's. They now only remember their post-reboot memories. Ian Flynn compared it to waking up from a dream: at first, you remember it clearly; but after a while, they slowly start fading away before disappearing completely.

Obviously, this gimmick served to continue the series running length and not upset any longtime readers. Originally, Ian wanted to restart the series from issue #1, but Kaminski insisted on continuing where they left off.

[GamemasterAnthony]

Personally, I like the fact that they kiboshed the time travel stuff.  We all know the kind of mess THOSE kinds of elements create.

 

Although, I have to say this:  Created to save Nikki's life by mapping her brain?  This...sounds...familiar...

 

*looks at Megaman.EXE, aka Lan's brother Hub*

 

In fact, it also...

 

*looks at GlaDOS, AKA the AI created from the mind of Katherine Johnson*

 

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah...

[TheRedStranger]

 There is a real lack of actual dialogue here. That unnerves me a a bit. I really wish you guys would talk with each other more than talk at each other. Who knows, you might enjoy each other's input and company.  

________

 

As for Logiteeka's statement:

 

If this true Kaminski is a myopic and lackluster man of business.

 

 Ian as the writer could have had a full range and a wealth of material to draw from that would honor the original series. If he was able to start from scratch with a younger cast all the way back to the time of The Coupe, he would have a majority of the story practically already written for a reboot for die-hard veteran fans, and would have a great reintroduction for newer fans. All he would have to do is tweak and change key-points that would lead the stories into divergent and fresh outcomes. Also, he could pull from the vast amount of critique, commentary, and fan-feedback dedicated to these original issues. He could have gained insight on how to improve what was timeless and special for each tale once told.

 

For a concrete example, think of the new Star Trek comic that focuses on the new continuity's retelling of the Five Year Mission. All the old stories written by D.C Fontana and the gang are rewritten with subtle tweaks that profoundly change the directions of the original screenplays. Then, the series peppers entirely new ideas into the mix. So far this comic has sold well and many older fans and newer alike enjoy the material. It is familiar, but it is also fresh.

 

 All Flynn would have to do with the newer Sonic Franchise is market the series as a retelling of "all your old favorite Sonic stories." Promise the readers, both new and veteran, a more consistent continuity, one with none of the gut-lurching mess-ups of the previous. It would give Ian an opportunity to reconstruct and revise for improvement on past material. It would give him the opportunity to actually interact with passionate older fans that want the series to mature along with them. It would be a second chance for every half-polished gem previous writers left aside. It would give Flynn the chance to trim out the flubs, fluff, filler, fat  and the outright failures with actual content. Indeed it would be so wonderful to see certain issues of the comic blotted out of existence.

 

Moreover, this would have give Flynn a more optimized work-load as a writer. He could really dedicate his time and focus in pacing out his own personal stories to the full effect. He could easily pace out the continuity where it once suffered from tonal-dissonance and plot-holes. There would be more time to work on the Sonic Universe and other spin-off comics. There possibly could be more awareness, investment, and involvement from fans that wish to see the series get a positive make-over. Instead of all this, he was forced to string along a discombobulated tangle knotted up by many writers at first. And now has to play a missive game of catch up by starting a story awkwardly in the middle. Though the content might be good, or even great, it all would have been better for the continuity, workload, and fandom as a whole if it was indeed from scratch. For example, Nichole's new back-story could have been a whole mystery-arc and running plot-line through several issues which built up and teased more and more whilst weaving through the plot-lines of each issue. They build would be even better, and the pay-off would be more explosive and integral to the story as a whole.

 

As for those gems you would personally love to see polished, I implore you to wax positive here.  

[LogiTeeka]

Although, I have to say this: Created to save Nikki's life by mapping her brain? This...sounds...familiar...

*looks at Megaman.EXE, aka Lan's brother Hub*

In fact, it also...

*looks at GlaDOS, AKA the AI created from the mind of Katherine Johnson*

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah...

Eh. It's been done way before those came out.

Astroboy, anyone?

[RedAuthar]

 

Astroboy, anyone?

 

No thank you I'm driving.

 

 

 Ian as the writer could have had a full range and a wealth of material to draw from that would honor the original series. If he was able to start from scratch with a younger cast all the way back to the time of The Coupe, he would have a majority of the story practically already written for a reboot for die-hard veteran fans, and would have a great reintroduction for newer fans. All he would have to do is tweak and change key-points that would lead the stories into divergent and fresh outcomes. Also, he could pull from the vast amount of critique, commentary, and fan-feedback dedicated to these original issues. He could have gained insight on how to improve what was timeless and special for each tale once told.

He could also alienate long term fans who feel like the story they followed up to this point was for nothing.  Heck kind of why FUS exists is because we were unsatisfied that SatAM got cut off.

 

For a concrete example, think of the new Star Trek comic that focuses on the new continuity's retelling of the Five Year Mission. All the old stories written by D.C Fontana and the gang are rewritten with subtle tweaks that profoundly change the directions of the original screenplays. Then, the series peppers entirely new ideas into the mix. So far this comic has sold well and many older fans and newer alike enjoy the material. It is familiar, but it is also fresh.

 

 

 

Ah but see, Star Trek tied in the reboot sort of like Archie Sonic.  They didn't just start over.  

 

Ironically Mortal Kombat did the exact same thing. 

[Vampfox]

Originally, Ian wanted to restart the series from issue #1, but Kaminski insisted on continuing where they left off.

Yep this is truth. Ian was told to have the characters remember the old reality.

 

 

And I sympathize with that whole-heartedly - believe me. But this is how it has to be.

Case in point: all of Sally's growth revolving around her dealing (or not dealing) with her father, with regaining her mother, discovering she had a brother and all that those plotlines entailed. I am now in a position where I can't reference:
- Alicia
- Elias
- anything Max did during his reign

That's not just something to can write around. Folks are getting riled that I'm using general nouns for the planet instead of saying "Mobius." Imagine how hollow it would sound if Sally were fighting for the "loved ones she's lost." Which loved ones? Can't say. How were the lost? Can't say. How were they important to her? Can't say. And it's not something you can lampshade, because losing most of her family is going to affect her as a character.

Maybe some folks would've been alright with dancing around the issue in vague terms. Maybe they'd be okay with Sonic moving on from his erased parents, or Knuckles just rolling with the genocide of his people (neither of which could be specifically referenced or talked about). But not me. I think that's a disservice to the story, to the characters, and to the fans. I'm not going to lie to you for years with a false promise of a return to the old canon. I was told to make them remember during "Countdown to Chaos," and now I'm making it clear the new status quo is sticking so you all aren't left wondering.

I have no doubt folks will be saying "they should've done it this way!" from now until the end of time. And I completely understand them being disappointed and a bit hurt that we had to change things so abruptly. But please believe me when I say there were many, many long, heated discussions on how to best proceed. This was not something we did lightly, and a lot of thought and effort has been put into this.

It's not the ArchieSonic of old - but I hope the veteran fans can still feel a little comfortable with the SatAM crew still together, still doing the Freedom Fighter thing.

 

 

Source: http://www.bumblekin...=7376&start=255