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What If Mina Mongoose Was In SatAM?

Started by Guest_Miko_* , Jul 17 2008 09:40 PM

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213 replies to this topic

#41 Ratty Randnums

He of Little Sleep

Fellow FUSer
1,385 posts

Gender:Male
Location:The Milky Way

Posted 19 July 2008 - 09:42 AM

QUOTE ("Talonfire":3hjqd2fq)

Not really, Mina is an Archie character so Archie uses her; therefore she's not being wasted. I don't see why the writers should be stuck with only using pre-existing characters, they should have the freedom to create their own. Can you imagine what SatAM would have been like if they just stuck with Sonic, Tails and Robotnik and the other minor Sonic characters at the time, and introduced no new characters?

You seem to miss the essential point that she will attract many of archie's fans and in so doing give the show a better chance to be picked up.

If this show gets picked up if it is to survive it will need a steady stream of viewers, the SatAM base will not cut it, Matt has IIRC basically said this. It needs to have a much wider appeal, and the Sega "purists" you're talking about? Most of them hate SatAM itself much more than Archie (indeed a great many of them like Archie but hate SatAM) and would be more angry at Sally being in the show than Mina.

QUOTE ("Talonfire":3hjqd2fq)

The thing is, you don't NEED Archie characters for great storytelling and depth, you can easily create your own. Bringing in new characters doesn't necessarily mean you have to pull them from Archie's vault.

Copy'pasta since you seem to have missed this: Mina and a few other Archie characters brings a lot of new regular viewers- for why this is a good thing, see below.

QUOTE ("Talonfire":3hjqd2fq)

I'm not an idiot like you seem to believe, but you're missing my point. From what I've read, Matt is interested in continuing SatAM in order to help it live up to its potential.

What exactly about including a character with lots of potential and gaining a vastly larger number of regular viewers, thus increasing the show's lifespan and it's chances at being picked up to begin with, hurts the show's potential?

QUOTE ("Talonfire":3hjqd2fq)

Sorry if my posts are coming across as confusing. Sometimes I tend to be vague.

Not at all , just you don't give any reasons for your opinions and claim that contradicting opinions are somehow unprofessional and may mysteriously harm the show by making it more popular.

PS-

QUOTE ("Talonfire":3hjqd2fq)

So what you're saying is that Archie and SEGA have the right to create brand new characters, but the writers of a SatAM revival can't? I'm sorry, but I simply don't agree. This isn't about what medium Mina comes from, this is about her being an already existing character who has her chance in the Archie comics. If you don't like how Archie portrays their own character, then tell them. I see no reason to restrict the freedom of the writers even further just for that. If the writers want to include the character, fine, but somehow I can't see that happening since most professionals prefer working with their own characters.

Which is why (or incase you misunderstand me, why you say) they would want to work on only SatAM and Sega characters when possible amirite? /sarcasm

And even though you'll just ignore or skip it like like all the others here's the Cliff Notes version of why including Mina would help the show- Help show get picked up and stay on the air to have a few Archie characters, of which Mina is one of the most popular and well known and probably has the most storytelling potential.

"I really think of life as a great expression of joy. And if you take yourself seriously you're going to be defeated I'm afraid.
...Maybe that is the whole recipe of life, is to be in on the joke. Because life is a joke and if you're not in on it you're out.
But if you're in on it, you can make it." - Vincent Price

"What have you got to lose? You know you come from nothing you're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!"
- Eric Idle

#42 Guest_Talonfire_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:16 AM

QUOTE ("Ratty":15oa5c1f)

A lot of the "Archie > SatAM" camp supports Archie more, because it's more like the SEGA games now than anything else. It still retains SatAM characters (a shadow of the SatAM lineup, anyway), but if you want a revival of the show to feel anything like SatAM you can't take the Archie route.

QUOTE

Because you're better off including Amy Rose. The Archie fanbase, while fairly significant, is still a shadow of the SegaSonic fanbase. If you want to retain a strong amount of viewers, you need to make the SEGA fans a priority over Archie's. This alone is fairly unfortunate since I think even Mina would be a better choice than Amy, but never the less SEGA's character's should be the primary focus for "new old" characters.

QUOTE

Not at all , just you don't give any reasons for your opinions and claim that contradicting opinions are somehow unprofessional and may mysteriously harm the show by making it more popular.

I'm not calling anyone's opinion unprofessional, what I'm saying is that spontaneously introducing new characters and changing key elements just like that is unprofessional writing. I consider Dulcy's appearance in SatAM unprofessional because there's no explanation, she just pops up out of nowhere. Don't tell me I'm the only one who thought that was strange.

QUOTE

Skip? I read your posts... otherwise I wouldn't respond to them. Anyway, what I meant was that the writing team would already have to work with pre-existing characters, introducing even more to the lineup when the writers could instead use their own would be overkill. They'd probably have to bring Knuckles in, plus some other SEGA characters, so you'd want to save some room for fresh faces wouldn't you?

#43 Guest_Miko_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:50 AM

QUOTE ("Talonfire":2zslxy7z)

So what you're saying is that Archie and SEGA have the right to create brand new characters, but the writers of a SatAM revival can't? I'm sorry, but I simply don't agree.

First of all Archie and SatAM have the license to create new characters. That doesn't mean that it's right to make new characters when there are existing ones that can work just as well. Besides Archie and SEGA haven't been known for quite some time to execute decent stories, and they're huge character count (which often comes as a result of not using characters who already have specific strengths that the new char has), has become a criticism of the modern comic book.

QUOTE

This isn't about what medium Mina comes from, this is about her being an already existing character who has her chance in the Archie comics. If you don't like how Archie portrays their own character, then tell them. I see no reason to restrict the freedom of the writers even further just for that. If the writers want to include the character, fine, but somehow I can't see that happening since most professionals prefer working with their own characters.

Hold up for a second. No one's forcing Matt into doing anything. Even when mentioning the fact Mina can help the pitch, it's still just a factor to weigh in. Ultimately if he sees enough working space with Mina that'll be his decision. Personally I don't see Mina as a character any more restrictive than the orignal SatAM cast. Especially since Mina's personal story welcomes character development.

#44 chief

An7imatt3r was here =p

Admins
6,487 posts

Gender:Male
Location:West Coast, BC, Canada

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:05 AM

I just have to throw this in here...What you guys are talking about now isn't SatAM. By throwing in a bunch of new characters etc... It stops being SatAM. Its just another Sonic show. Which..Okay cool another sonic show.. Maybe this one won't fail like the rest? I dunno... But...It stops being SatAM after you change and add so much.

#45 Guest_Miko_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE ("chief":ej29tc9s)

Given SatAM had no problem frequently adding a few new characters, it doesn't make sense to think that inherently adding new characters makes SatAM not SatAM. So if you mean by, SatAM wouldn't be SatAM because of its new characters, then no I still disagree. Knuckles would at best be an occassional character because of the Master Emerald. And while Mina's got something new to offer, she doesn't have to steal the show, or put the center stage freedom fighters in the background. As a matter of fact, one of Mina's strongest points is helping the other characters already in SatAM develop and just about every last one of the main cast could be given character development or a little moreO depth through Mina, making their characters shine brighter instead of flickering and fading out in her presence. It doesn't have to be "Mina the Mongoose" "Or Sonic and Mina ...and everyone else." That, and she doesn't have to be in every episode, either.

QUOTE

Because you're better off including Amy Rose. The Archie fanbase, while fairly significant, is still a shadow of the SegaSonic fanbase.

Mina has something specifically to contribute, that if applied to Amy would severely alter her characteriation and her dynamics to the characters. And given your own logic (that characteriation being altered defeats the purpose), there's no point in using Amy because Amy as a character is no longer there.

QUOTE

I'm not calling anyone's opinion unprofessional, what I'm saying is that spontaneously introducing new characters and changing key elements just like that is unprofessional writing.

Many professional, highly successful bussinesses do this. And changing backstory is not by any means unprofessional as long as the personality and characterization can be preserved. Again, things like X-Men's cartoons typically do this. What you think is professional doesn't actually reflect what IS something professionals do. Especially when they're expanding on an existing franchise. But... in any case, be careful what you say, you may actually be disrespecting Matt. As, IIRC he seems to be very interested in using Knuckles. Is he suddenly unprofessional now too because he may have to expand the mythos of Knuckles to fit SatAM?
Also you're pitching this to a company whose professionalism and understanding of what it means to run a company is very questionable. They could be considered by many as child-like in their desire to use the company to boost their egos/self esteem, not understanding that SEGA is a bussiness and that many of it's workers need them to take their marketting decisions more seriously. To me it's just the pride you can find in many Japanese being applied to strongly to the company, and there is a great deal of pride instilled in the culture. They're probably going to want to see some of their characters in it. Knuckles at least. I couldn't see them giving the green light without at least the triple threat.

QUOTE

she just pops up out of nowhere. Don't tell me I'm the only one who thought that was strange.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "pops out of nowhere."

#46 Lord Exor

Evil Incarnate

Fellow FUSer
465 posts

Gender:Male
Location:A tank.

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:24 AM

I'd have to say nay to her inclusion. I am disinclined to provide any further reasoning to bolster my opinion because I'm a shallow person.

#47 Guest_Miko_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE ("Lord Exor":2wnj1731)

I'd have to nay to her inclusion. I am disinclined to provide any further reasoning to bolster my opinion because I'm a shallow person.

Further reasoning? you didn't provide reasoning in the first place.

#48 Lord Exor

Evil Incarnate

Fellow FUSer
465 posts

Gender:Male
Location:A tank.

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:29 AM

How dare you use logic with me! That simply isn't tolerated!

#49 chief

An7imatt3r was here =p

Admins
6,487 posts

Gender:Male
Location:West Coast, BC, Canada

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:31 AM

Way to make Exor sad

#50 Guest_BigBrother_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE ("Miko":286h4l7j)

So, I think Mina could be his babysitter in Knothole, with that as the only profession she really involves herself in. I mean yeah I can see occassional tasks like helping Rotor with his latest invention with Bunnie, but I could particularly see Mina's helping with Tails' development.

Or Matt can just come up with an original character to do this sort of thing. It's not like SatAM has made up characters before to handle things that neither Sonic nor Robotnik can do.....

#51 Guest_Talonfire_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE ("Miko":24nxjjjv)

I'm not arguing otherwise, I pointed out that I consider Mina a better choice than Amy.

QUOTE

Many professional, highly successful bussinesses do this. And changing backstory is not by any means unprofessional as long as the personality and characterization can be preserved. Again, things like X-Men's cartoons typically do this. What you think is professional doesn't actually reflect what IS something professionals do. Especially when they're expanding on an existing franchise. But... in any case, be careful what you say, you may actually be disrespecting Matt. As, IIRC he seems to be very interested in using Knuckles. Is he suddenly unprofessional now too because he may have to expand the mythos of Knuckles to fit SatAM?

Also you're pitching this to a company whose professionalism and understanding of what it means to run a company is very questionable. They could be considered by many as child-like in their desire to use the company to boost their egos/self esteem, not understanding that SEGA is a bussiness and that many of it's workers need them to take their marketting decisions more seriously. To me it's just the pride you can find in many Japanese being applied to strongly to the company, and there is a great deal of pride instilled in the culture. They're probably going to want to see some of their characters in it. Knuckles at least. I couldn't see them giving the green light without at least the triple threat.

You seem to misunderstand me, I don't consider the addition of new characters unprofessional, (I believe I've made it clear that I support the addition of new characters) or altering them a bit to fit in. As long as they somewhat feel like their original incarnation it's fine by me, but if they're not like the original design at all what's the point?

I consider it unprofessional to have new characters just appear out of the blue for the sake of being there. In writing, that's considered sloppy story telling. It'd be difficult to do that with Knuckles since he is (should be?) on the floating island, it's not like he'd suddenly be in Knothole with no explanation. Other than that Knuckles is a flexible character since his history is very vague, and his personality is defined by him being a loner. Knuckles would fit into the SatAM setting just fine, I don't recall ever saying otherwise. We do agree on something, though.

QUOTE

I don't quite understand what you mean by "pops out of nowhere."

In Game Guy, the season 2 premiere, Dulcy is just there. We're not told where she came from we're just expected to go with it. While I'm aware that you have to suspend your disbelief with such things, it seemed odd to me that they'd introduce a brand new character without giving any details.

#52 Guest_Miko_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE

Many professional, highly successful bussinesses do this. And changing backstory is not by any means unprofessional as long as the personality and characterization can be preserved. Again, things like X-Men's cartoons typically do this. What you think is professional doesn't actually reflect what IS something professionals do. Especially when they're expanding on an existing franchise. But... in any case, be careful what you say, you may actually be disrespecting Matt. As, IIRC he seems to be very interested in using Knuckles. Is he suddenly unprofessional now too because he may have to expand the mythos of Knuckles to fit SatAM?

Also you're pitching this to a company whose professionalism and understanding of what it means to run a company is very questionable. They could be considered by many as child-like in their desire to use the company to boost their egos/self esteem, not understanding that SEGA is a bussiness and that many of it's workers need them to take their marketting decisions more seriously. To me it's just the pride you can find in many Japanese being applied to strongly to the company, and there is a great deal of pride instilled in the culture. They're probably going to want to see some of their characters in it. Knuckles at least. I couldn't see them giving the green light without at least the triple threat.

Oh, that makes a lot more sense and while I agree I do beleive Mina could fit without losing her oringinal feel. I don't know if you were disagreeing with that or what. @___@;

QUOTE

I don't quite understand what you mean by "pops out of nowhere."

So you're noting Dulcy and not Mina? Well, ok.

QUOTE

#53 Guest_Shorty_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:11 PM

QUOTE

Or Matt can just come up with an original character to do this sort of thing. It's not like SatAM has made up characters before to handle things that neither Sonic nor Robotnik can do.....

SatAM could more than afford to do that back in the day. One, there weren't any demands by SEGA, and two, we didn't have nearly as many characters like we do now. Again, I don't see the point in making even MORE characters when there are so many of them readily available, with an already established fanbase. Especially when it comes to potential love interests.

#54 Guest_Miko_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE ("Shorty":1v51vzrg)

QUOTE

Or Matt can just come up with an original character to do this sort of thing. It's not like SatAM has made up characters before to handle things that neither Sonic nor Robotnik can do.....

Shorty I think she meant that if the new characters will be changed to the point they don't resemble their original selves, don't use them. Which makes sense.

#55 Guest_Shorty_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE

Shorty I think she meant that if the new characters will be changed to the point they don't resemble their original selves, don't use them. Which makes sense.

Big Brother's a girl? o_o

..Well, okay. Still though, I think Mina could be easily incorporated in the cartoon while still resembling herself if not being the same, entirely.

It'd be interesting to see how she plays out. Her applied morals may have positive affects on the team, as well as negative ones, which could on occasion even annoy some of the other characters.

#56 Guest_Miko_*

GUESTS

Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:31 PM

woah I was thinking it was someone totally different, and I don't even know if they're a girl. Probably not. So many FUSers are guys

Sorry I've been a little loopy the past couple days. My minds scrambled.

#57

GUESTS

Posted 20 July 2008 - 04:15 PM

Actually, I’ve always thought that it would be Rosie who looked after Tails when the FF’s went off on missions. Granted, though, that Sonic and Sally altered their own timeline in Blast from the Past. Perhaps then Mina is also watched by Rosie? I’m not quite sure how old Mina is. The same goes for Amy if anyone wants to introduce her, but I’ve only really known her from Archie and have looked at her as a little kid who loves her hero, but it’s going nowhere.

Actually, being a hero, I couldn’t imagine Sonic not having admires that wouldn’t rival Sally. We’ve seen a few males court Sally, why not a lady with a small role do the same for Sonic? There’s no reason for it to be serious, none of the nice men for Sally were. And I don’t count Antoine, his romantic interest in Sally is a joke and has never seemed to be taken seriously.

Oh, and Hurricane Mina

*Sonic, Sally, Bunnie talk with Furry 1. Furry 1 sees Mina in the distance*
Furry 1: Oh no, here comes Hurricane Mina.
Sonic: Hurricane Mina? O_o
Mina: *sees some friends. Waves* Hey! *Tries to run at full speed. Fails, falls, creates a huge mess*
Sonic: Oh, I get it. Hurricane Mina.

#58 Guest_Miko_*

GUESTS

Posted 20 July 2008 - 04:22 PM

QUOTE ("Klebkatt":3k2y7uow)

All these characters can technically watch Tails from time to time. I'm just saying that when Mina babysits Tails it can have a purpose.

QUOTE

Oh, and Hurricane Mina

Oh no I started a gag in the making

#59 Guest_Shorty_*

GUESTS

Posted 21 July 2008 - 12:19 PM

Haha, cool!

Anyway, I'm planning on posting some pictures up on her. As it stands, Mina's design is a little ambiguous in the sense that the style will often shift from artist to artist (sometimes even the same one, like Spaz). The initial hairstyle was also not purple, IIRC, it was mauve/or/magenta...something along the lines of that. I might give examples of this too later.