35 replies to this topic

[chief]

 

Sonic Robotnik man....SonRob

 

Dont you effing dare

 

I control all my friend..

[chief]

Ding Dong the witch is...er..Tails is dead!

[HeavensChampion]

And now we see the resonatrix at work.I'm surprised they didn't ad Sally's bloodcurdling scream. I am not implying that I'm sadistic.

[HeavensChampion]

Will someone please answer me? Why don't you people care about the new page?! SNIVELY'S NEW MACHINE HAS JUST STARTED DOING ITS WORK!

[Sonic J]

I totally didn't see it coming. Whoever drew that page completely took me by surprise.

[HeavensChampion]

Is this thread dead?

[chief]

Not dead but doesn't get posted in very often. 

[Sonic J]

Page 20 is up at last! Give Steven a big thank you for battling his current health issues to give us our latest page.

On top of that, we've reached the 20 page milestone. How's the artwork holding up?

[chief]

I told him to stop being nice and accepting cookies from elementary schoolers.

[sonicroc]

Lol, I said I was hooked, but then went the entire Fall-Winter-Spring without reading Sea3on once! But... I was also way behind in the Archie comics too. I guess it's just the way I am; I read in short bursts.
 
So now I'm all caught up. It was awesome! Tim, Steve, and Eric, you guys rock! The comic is definitely on par with the Archie comics... the catch being that it comes out a lot slower. 
 

How's the artwork holding up?

 
Excellently!  But since you said that you want to get into Archie, I must viciously rip apart your artwork!!
 
 
- First of all, this isn't really a flaw, but I'm not fully behind you with how you draw Snively.
 
It's actually really funny when I think about it. Last year, I thought to myself, You know, it seems like every artist nowadays seems to take Snively in their own weird direction. Since I haven't seem how Tim draws him yet, maybe I should PM him and beg him to pretty please just keep Snively the same as how he looks in SatAM.
 
But I was like, Nah, I'm sure it'll be fine.
 
And then, later on, I see this:
 

 
LOL!! It's like you decided to punish me for not saying anything!!!
 
I see that you've greatly toned down how you draw him since then. *whew*  But I still don't like how you draw him with the wobbly mouth. It just looks kinda ugly. He looks particularly ugly in this picture:
 

 
 
I guess the thing is, Snively is one of my all-time favorite Sonic characters, and it's been a very long time since I've seen anyone draw him how he looked in SatAM. So please.... I'll bake you muffins if you do. (Virtual muffins.)
 
 
ANYWAY, onto the actual art critique!
 
 
- Sonic seems to jump from next to Sally (1st panel) to behind her (2nd and 3rd):
 

 
 
- In the first panel here, the perspective is very funky. The snake and the bat seem to be on different planes of reality from the rhino and the table. And for the second panel to work, it seems like the rhino would have to be floating high above the table, and at an angle.
 

 
 
- The way the bear is situated here seems off to me. Is he way bigger than the wolf next to him? If the answer is yes, I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not that means there isn't a perspective problem.
 

 
 
- I'm tempted to say that it looks like Sally is choking on her boobs...... But that would be a very strange statement, so I won't.
 
-
 
 
- Sonic's teeth really bug me here. It looks like you're trying to draw his teeth with realistic perspective... But keep in mind that his mouth is on the side of his face! So it looks really weird. If you're going to draw him cartoony, draw him cartoony.
 

 
 
And similarly, back to this picture: The teeth at the back of his mouth just make it look like Snively has tusks.
 

 
 
- I had to stare at this picture for awhile before I could tell what was going on. I thought maybe there was some kind of giant Swat-Bot head, before I finally realized that that's actually a separate panel. I'm guessing the brightness on your monitor is turned up higher than it is on mine, but still...
 

 
 
- The size comparison between the characters, given the perspective, doesn't seem to quite work for me. For instance, it looks like Sonic would only be about as tall as the bear's knees. But again, maybe he's just super huge, I don't know...
 

 
 
- Lupe, and especially the other wolf, look kinda stiff here.
 

 
 
 
But this is all just nit-picking. I am hugely enjoying the artwork, and I really love the way you draw Sonic and Sally. I just feel obligated to be contructively-critical. Keep up the awesome job!!!!  (And sorry for the colossal post.)

[Sonic J]

Dynamite! Another respectful fan generously giving their perspective on the artwork. I'm especialy tickled you've given a good amount about my area. *huggles sonicroc*

 

Approuching your concern for Snively, I totaly totaly hear you. We've made a conscious choice for the comic to preserve the spirit of SatAM, but give it an edge of comic book flavor. SatAM style itself is great for cartoons, but now that it's a comic book...there's no movement in a comic book. So we make up for that in artwork.

 

That's why everyone looks just...a little different. Not so different they loose their SatAM selves, but different enough that they work in a comic book but still bring that SatAM spirit. I'm sorry Snively isn't exacly as he looks in the cartoon to every detail, which I could do, but there is purpose to the madness. I assure you he's the same snively. Put makeup on a pig, he's still a pig.

 

Hehehe, and I'm very glad you like Sonic and Sally. Steven and I took a long time designing a new Sonic with that old flair for Sea3on. So to hear you like how he looks is very special to my heart.

 

Anyway, so that's my response for Snively, I apreciate your concern. Really, they're our concerns too, lol. As for the rest of it, thank you very much for your critique, and I have a few specific responses.

 

- Sonic seems to jump from next to Sally (1st panel) to behind her (2nd and 3rd):

 

Lol, yes he did. Sonic is very fast.

 

 

- In the first panel here, the perspective is very funky. The snake and the bat seem to be on different planes of reality from the rhino and the table. And for the second panel to work, it seems like the rhino would have to be floating high above the table, and at an angle.

 

&

 

- The way the bear is situated here seems off to me. Is he way bigger than the wolf next to him? If the answer is yes, I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not that means there isn't a perspective problem.

 

I don't understand what you're saying about these two. I think maybe you're not seeing their size correctly? They are very big. Both of them, lol. They're almost twice the size of Sonic and Sally.

 

 

- Sonic's teeth really bug me here. It looks like you're trying to draw his teeth with realistic perspective... But keep in mind that his mouth is on the side of his face! So it looks really weird. If you're going to draw him cartoony, draw him cartoony.

 

Hahahaha, I know. This is an obsolete style for mouths. I've improved my technique since this point. Thank you, though, for pointing it out....again....hahaha.

 

 

Again, thank you. You have no idea how much I value critique. Steven knows this very well. I basically gave him a stick and said 'whack me if I'm bad.' He has. A few times. Rofl.

[sonicroc]

That's why everyone looks just...a little different. Not so different they loose their SatAM selves, but different enough that they work in a comic book but still bring that SatAM spirit.

 

That's a good point. But... I don't suppose you could keep his design as you have it, but then get rid of the wobbly mouth? I noticed that you also made a number of other changes to his design (most notably the shape of his nose), so you could get rid of the wobbly mouth and still have it be a different design....   But if you really, really, really, *hours later* really want to keep the wobbly mouth, I guess I can accept that....... I don't know, I guess it just bothers me for unknown reasons, lol. It, like, creeps me out or something.

 

 

But anyway: I forgot to mention this picture:

 

 

You did a very good job on her head and arms, but the way her body becomes so tiny behind her, it looks pretty odd. I could see it being a stylistic choice, like with exaggerated depth, but it seems like then the hands would have to be really huge in order for that to work. I keep staring at it, and no matter how long I stare at it, by brain is unable to register it as one cohesive picture.

 

 

 

- Sonic seems to jump from next to Sally (1st panel) to behind her (2nd and 3rd):

 

Lol, yes he did. Sonic is very fast.

 

Lol!! That occurred to me at one point, that maybe you did that on purpose, I just sorta doubted it.

 

 

 

Anyway, here's the size comparison from SatAM of the relevant characters:

 

 

 

With that in mind, let's go back to this:

 

 

 

PANEL 1: First of all, the rhino is bigger than the snake and the bat, but not that much bigger. And assuming the snake and the bat are sitting at the table (I know at least the bat is), they're slighly closer to the POV than the rhino; and they're all sitting, which reduces the height difference. So I'm quite confident they're too small.

 

Plus, looking at the rhino and the table, I'd say we're slightly above the rhino's eyelevel. However, it looks like we're seeing the snake from below her eyelevel. You could say she's leaning back, but I don't think she is.

 

Presumably, the POV is from the other side of the table, since the rhino is looking right at us. But then why is the table curved at the bottom? Wouldn't it be about flat? And this would mean the snake and bat would also be higher up.

 

Here's my horrific attempt to "fix" the image based on what I've said:

 

 

 

Now, onto panel 2: From the way you've drawn Ari and the table, the POV is high in the air. But then there's the rhino's face. From the SatAM screencap above, it's clear to me that the rhino is either Ari's height or slightly taller.

 

And on top of that, just looking at the rhino's head and ignoring the background, I would say we were below the rhino's eyelevel. You could say he's tilting his head to his left, but he would have to be tilting his head way, way to the left in order for it to work.

 

So from that picture, I conclude that the rhino is floating above the table, at an angle.

 

I... I couldn't resist:  

 

 

 

 

As for the more zoomed-out picture that shows the bear, I'm not sure whether or not there's a problem, so I'll just drop that one for simplicity, lol.

[Sonic J]

Lol, don't start talking perspective with that SatAM picture with Sonic's arm stretching to impossible lengths just to reach the middle of the circle.

 

 

My judgement of the size of Dirk and Pollo is based on how many heads high they are. I counted. They're about the same head count as the Swatbots. Which, look at Swatbots:

 

 

Twice the size of Sonic. I don't know what the show was doing, but what I drew is their true dimensions. Let's also take into account this picture:

 

 

Take your fingers and measure from Sonic's heel to the top of his head. (right around where his far ear is.) Now slide your hand over to the bottom of Dirk's foot, which is just visible behind Pollo at the bottom of the picture. You'll see the true dimensions, which is Sonic being half the size of Dirk. The dude is huge!

 

Ignore Sally, however, her dimensions are too tall in this particular picture. Which is one issue with trying to make a comic off an old cartoon like this, it has a lot of inconsistencies. I based what I draw off of what was most common, sticking to the intended facts, not the inaccurate results.

 

So, yeah, I've done my homework. I draw for accuracy. I think the show was trying to make Dirk and Pollo seem smaller than they actually were...which is huge. At least, compared to the other Freedom Fighters.

 

 

For the rest of it, I'll take it into consideration. I need to make a few modifications to this week's page anyway. Maybe I'll make a few more. I think the swivel mouth has served it's intended purpose up to this point.

[sonicroc]

I believe you about Dirk and Pollo's size. (I love the image where Sonic slides toward Dirk on the table, lol.) What I was analyzing in my last post was just, given their size, whether or not the perspective is off.

 

Btw, speaking of Dirk and Pollo... How exactly do you guys know their names? I would say that you guys just made them up, but that seems to go against what Stephen said when he said, "there are two Dirks in SatAM."

 

 

I think the swivel mouth has served it's intended purpose up to this point.

 

...... O_O   What does that mean...?  Is it supposed to show that Snively is losing it??? Paul was very cryptic about Snively's appearance in this post.... IS SOMETHING HAPPENING TO SNIVELY?!?! 

[Sonic J]

We know their names because Sally said their names in Doomsday. She didn't specify which one was Dirk and which one was Pollo, but given the history of Sonic the hedgehog and how it assigns names, we gave each name to the person it sounds like it belongs to.

 

 

 

...... O_O   What does that mean...?  Is it supposed to show that Snively is losing it??? Paul was very cryptic about Snively's appearance in this post.... IS SOMETHING HAPPENING TO SNIVELY?!?! 

 

Now I've gone and done it.....

[Nightmus]

Now that I've finished reading Sea3on up to the latest page, I'd like to provide some feedback if I may.

 

I'll start with saying that Sea3on is a great project and it's been a pleasure reading it! It really feels like a continued Satam, which I've grown to love over the last couple of months. I'm also slowly progressing through Archie comics (currently at issue 24), which are starting to get better since their inception (I have to admit, they've gone uphill since Penders became involved, although he really-really likes alternate universe plots). But it's Sea3on that expanded the Satam canon for me. So I'd like to say thanks to all the people who worked and continue to work on it!

 

There are a couple of design choices I'd like to discuss. The new design has come a long way since late Chapter 5 design shift. It's still quite different, but I like it, except some select artistic choices. Sonic looks more like Underground, but I don't mind. Snively however looks too scary sometimes, he's a small weak man with a brilliant mind, he doesn't need to look monstrous and scary. His traits are careful planning, ruthlessness, the urge to surpass Ivo - not being evil for the sake of it. I get it that now that he's the mastermind, he should become more menacing than his previous lackey role. However he already looks menacing when he's fully aware of Ivo's shortcomings and is willing to accomplish the goal rather than play with his enemies. Sitting in the shadows of his lab, with his high collar, being confident and the fact (or so it appears, the truth is FF are too awesome to completely lose) that the only thing standing between him and his goals is getting used to his new role and overcoming his fear of being inferior to Ivo - that is what makes him menacing.

 

However I mostly want to talk about Sally. I didn't like added curls to Nicole and Sally in late Chapter 5, but they've been toned down since then. However the fact that Sally's hair completely covers one of her eyes (when the hair isn't blown all over the place as on the latest pages) is not something I agree upon. When only one eye is shown, she looks less determined, less self-confident and less agile. Completely covering one eye with hair robs one of depth vision, which suggests the character is either not going to participate in combat, evade attacks, perform acrobatics and is more likely being portrayed as pretty/vulnerable/indecisive/flirting/shy/emo/etc. Or it goes into superhero cliché territory, where one-eyed heroes shoot best, a gown/suit is the appropriate fighting outfit and covering your eyes is a way to show that the hero is so unbelievably skilled and cool that he/she doesn't even need to look at the enemy to fight exceptionally well. I don't think either of those is the way to go for Sea3on.

 

The next one is her constitution. I'm not a fan of belly-button addition and accentuated breast design (the latter was from the very beginning I believe). I mean of course I find her beautiful and attractive and whatnot, but at the same time I believe more subtle design works best. First, with a smaller body/larger head Satam design accentuated breasts sometimes start to look pretty big. Most of the time it looks good, but sometimes - a bit too much, especially if they are given specific form, like Ch6p15 first panel or Ch6p4 bottom-left panel. I don't want her chest to be completely flat either, but I would be glad if it retains a reasonable size. Second, Sally doesn't wear much clothing, so at a certain point accentuating her feminine traits becomes borderline erotic. That's mainly alleviated by simplistic design and fur - her body is covered in fur, so it's okay for her to wear only a few clothes. However if abdominal muscles are emphasized and her belly-button is shown, she starts to look naked, which in my opinion takes away from the character. It's like Sonic himself - his design is simplified, so he can wear only sneakers. But if you make him ripped and define his musculature, he'd most likely have to wear some shorts (like in Archie #19 Night of 1000 Sonics). I wanted to also provide one extreme example of excessive detalization, but couldn't find it for more than an hour. There was a panel in one of Archie's earlier Sonic comics, where Sally falls or jumps in a direction away from the viewer. Her bottom and tail are in half-shadow, but I swear it you could discern every detail that shouldn't be visible. God dammit, Archie!

 

The last thing is Sally's eyes. When they are wide open, they become almond-shaped, at an angle. I much prefer them oval, with the lower side more flat, like in both panels of Ch6p20. They are closed and half-closed here however.

 

I'm sorry if my words upset somebody, just love Sally too much to accept changes. The creators and the comic are great regardless!