30 replies to this topic

[sonicroc]

If you had a magic wand that could make all the necessary business executives lose their minds and either reboot SatAM or give it an official Season 3, which would you have them do?

 

Personally, I'd prefer a reboot. SatAM was a decent show, but it had loads of issues. ("Harmonic Sonic" could be deleted from existence!) And this way, they could plan out the whole show ahead of time and create it within that structure, like they seemed to do with Avatar: The Last Airbender.

 

Plus, of course, the show was cancelled two decades ago, so a reboot would be much more welcoming to newcomers.

 

For me, it's important that it would stay rooted in nature. (For contrast, see the Freedom Fighters' giant floating battle station in the Archie comics.......)

 

But that said, they could change up some things. NO MORE ANTOINE! Replace him with... a good character!

[RedAuthar]

As much as I like SatAM, I am a fan of the Sonic Series in general.  

 

I believe that even today if they were to release a Third Season the show would fail due to a lack of audience.  Only a small chunk of the fan base would know what happened up to this point.  

 

Rebooting the show would be the better option.  It doesn't have to be overhauled, just reworked a bit.  Maybe update the character's appearances so the reflect the current generation of Sonic fans though not completely copy the SEGA appearance, rework the episodes so there are a few less plot holes and tie them together better, and as the series goes on release SatAM interpretations of newer characters and concepts.  

 

 

 

But that said, they could change up some things. NO MORE ANTOINE! Replace him with... a good character!

Define Good.

 

See if you mean a more competent character, that would be a bad idea as then he would become more bland and not stand out compared to the rest of the team.  

 

In fact out of all the characters I'd cut Bunnie, Tails, Rotor, and Snively (In that order) before I'd cut Antoine.  

Bunnie is so underdeveloped you could easily replace her with someone else.

Tails's only saving grace is he's a SEGA character.  In SatAM he was pretty much useless and underused save for a gimmick to make the other character's lives more difficult.

Rotor's only personality is Tech Guy.  Only one time in the show does he be anything more than that and in that episode he decides he only wants to be the tech guy at the end.  

Robotnik would be just as evil without Snively or if you replaced him with a robot.  Snively's biggest contribution is the fact that he has more personality then the characters listed above, specifically in the second season.

 

Antoine is far more developed personality and the perfect foil for Sonic.

Sonic is rude and messy, Ant is very polite and a neat freak.  Sonic is brave, Ant is a coward.  Sonic tends to make a joke of everything, and Ant takes it all too seriously. 

 

Honestly he is a very well made character.  Is he likeable maybe not so much but...well made.

[LogiTeeka]

Currently, most Sonic fans are only familiar with the games and Sega's depiction of the franchise. Reviving an old show that was cancelled nearly twenty years ago would not only seem ridiculous, but would also alienate any potential viewers from watching due to its radical departure from what is considered to be the norm. Plus, let's be honest, the show itself doesn't exactly hold up that well in today's media. Sure, it's good ol' nostagia and has really great elements, but when compared to other shows on the air at the time (like the Disney Afternoon or Kids WB), it kinda falls apart.

If there ever was a reboot, I would expect it to be something like the new Archie continuity or the first Genesis Wave reality (or maybe both); where they blend SatAM/Archie elements with a continuity vaguely similar to the game canon.

[E122Psi]

Antoine isn't Antoine without being a pompous goofball. I have nothing against him actually contributing something and maybe being a Crouching Moron Hidden Badass but don't just go the opposite extreme that Archie did.

 

I'm fine with keeping the main cast, I just think they need to tap more potential they had to making them more rounded and thus more universally enjoyable. Antoine needs to be more than a Straw Loser for Sonic, Sally needs to be more than an 'always right' love interest, Bunnie and Rotor need to have...some role or other. A lot of their archetypes have been used in plenty of shows to get ideas for new directions (take FIM or Talespin for example). Truthfully I'd avoid the Archie interpretations though, I tend to find them just boring and interchangeable to what the action requires. The Satam versions at least had foibles, just underdeveloped ones.

 

I'm mixed about which direction. A reboot would likely be the safest approach and more potential to tap, but I do wonder what the original direction would have looked like, it sounds like Hurst left a lot of info on how to take it.

[Captain Sorzo]

As absolutely fantastic as Sea3on has been thus far, I've got to side with the reboot option as well. While I wouldn't want the series to be taken in a radical new direction or to feature more elements from the games (or any other continuity), a clean slate would allow for the writing to be more refined, with the elimination of weaker plots and Dulcy, deeper characterization for Bunnie, Rotor, and Antoine, and properly planned lore. The idea would be to preserve the essence of the series as much as possible whilst realizing the full potential of its brilliant premise.

 

Likely the largest alteration I would be in favor of would be the inclusion of occasional slice-of-life episodes set entirely in and around Knothole. Yes, some of the shorts did this, but it's generally agreed that their quality of execution was...wanting. I'd love to see a number of in-depth character studies set in a relatively safe environment. Think FiM, but slightly darker, with less comedy and no singing (which would likely feel as out of place in Knothole as it feels appropriate in Equestria).

[sonicroc]

 

 

But that said, they could change up some things. NO MORE ANTOINE! Replace him with... a good character!

Define Good.

 

See if you mean a more competent character, that would be a bad idea as then he would become more bland and not stand out compared to the rest of the team.  

 

In fact out of all the characters I'd cut Bunnie, Tails, Rotor, and Snively (In that order) before I'd cut Antoine.  

Bunnie is so underdeveloped you could easily replace her with someone else.

Tails's only saving grace is he's a SEGA character.  In SatAM he was pretty much useless and underused save for a gimmick to make the other character's lives more difficult.

Rotor's only personality is Tech Guy.  Only one time in the show does he be anything more than that and in that episode he decides he only wants to be the tech guy at the end.  

Robotnik would be just as evil without Snively or if you replaced him with a robot.  Snively's biggest contribution is the fact that he has more personality then the characters listed above, specifically in the second season.

 

Antoine is far more developed personality and the perfect foil for Sonic.

Sonic is rude and messy, Ant is very polite and a neat freak.  Sonic is brave, Ant is a coward.  Sonic tends to make a joke of everything, and Ant takes it all too seriously. 

 

Honestly he is a very well made character.  Is he likeable maybe not so much but...well made.

 

Okay, I guess I should be... more.....

 

Snively? B-but.....  *weeps softly to himself*

 

*ahem*  I guess I should be more specific about why I don't like Antoine. Bunnie and Rotor are perhaps somewhat boring, but they have potential. Antoine...

 

So basically, here's how I see it. The guys at Dic were like, Hey, we need a comedy character! What's funny... Oh hey, there's the stereotype of the cowardly French military, so let's make this French coyote who's a coward, and who always wearing a military outfit! *The rest of the Dic team start LOLzing themselves*

 

So yeah, he really is just a stereotype. And on top of that, they make fun of him for not being able to speak English well. That's really obnoxious. The average French person can speak English very well, whereas the average American is only fluent in English.

 

What Archie has done with him is even more bothersome. In issue #46, they established that he wears his uniform to honor his late father, who was a military hero. Right after that, in Sonic Super Special #1, we have the story "The Map," which is clearly pro-war propaganda. If you've seen it, you'll know what I mean. It's old now, but it was reprinted in a Sonic Super Digest. And then finally we have issue 234, which has pro-war undertones, although more subtly.

 

This isn't the part of the forum to discuss serious issues such as war, but suffice it to say that -- while I have nothing against people who have fought in the military -- I do not like pro-war propaganda. Granted, there isn't a lot in the comic, but what's there does bother me quite a bit.

 

I don't hate Antoine. I loved him when I was a kid, and "Hooked on Sonics" is still one of my favorite episodes of SatAM. But still, I find him to be a rather problematic character, and if SatAM got a second chance, I'd really rather see him replaced with a different comic-relief character.

[RedAuthar]

Ah but both Bunnie and Rotor are stereotypes as well.

Rotor is your typical overweight best friend who is only useful by being smart or support. In the pilot they even have the joke "fat character eats."

Bunnie is your typical southern woman who is extremely sweet, acts very southern-belle esque, but is the toughest of all the females.

Heck Tails is your typical bumbling kid who wants to help but is still too young.

It wasn't until season two that Antione became a potentially offensive character with the shorts and the "margerine".

[Captain Sorzo]

Rotor is your typical overweight best friend who is only useful by being smart or support. In the pilot they even have the joke "fat character eats."

 

 

 

Wait a minute.

 

[LogiTeeka]

Ah but both Bunnie and Rotor are stereotypes as well.
Rotor is your typical overweight best friend who is only useful by being smart or support. In the pilot they even have the joke "fat character eats."
Bunnie is your typical southern woman who is extremely sweet, acts very southern-belle esque, but is the toughest of all the females.
Heck Tails is your typical bumbling kid who wants to help but is still too young.
It wasn't until season two that Antione became a potentially offensive character with the shorts and the "margerine".

I guess that's kinda ironic. Fans who hate the games call the cast stereotypes, and those that hate SatAM call the cast stereotypes as well.

Who's the better/worse example?

Okay, I guess I should be... more.....

Snively? B-but..... *weeps softly to himself*

*ahem* I guess I should be more specific about why I don't like Antoine. Bunnie and Rotor are perhaps somewhat boring, but they have potential. Antoine...

So basically, here's how I see it. The guys at Dic were like, Hey, we need a comedy character! What's funny... Oh hey, there's the stereotype of the cowardly French military, so let's make this French coyote who's a coward, and who always wearing a military outfit! *The rest of the Dic team start LOLzing themselves*

So yeah, he really is just a stereotype. And on top of that, they make fun of him for not being able to speak English well. That's really obnoxious. The average French person can speak English very well, whereas the average American is only fluent in English.

What Archie has done with him is even more bothersome. In issue #46, they established that he wears his uniform to honor his late father, who was a military hero. Right after that, in Sonic Super Special #1, we have the story "The Map," which is clearly pro-war propaganda. If you've seen it, you'll know what I mean. It's old now, but it was reprinted in a Sonic Super Digest. And then finally we have issue 234, which has pro-war undertones, although more subtly.

This isn't the part of the forum to discuss serious issues such as war, but suffice it to say that -- while I have nothing against people who have fought in the military -- I do not like pro-war propaganda. Granted, there isn't a lot in the comic, but what's there does bother me quite a bit.

I don't hate Antoine. I loved him when I was a kid, and "Hooked on Sonics" is still one of my favorite episodes of SatAM. But still, I find him to be a rather problematic character, and if SatAM got a second chance, I'd really rather see him replaced with a different comic-relief character.

Antoine is one of those characters to have character-depictions on opposite sides of the spectrum. In Archie, he's rather muddled and kinda dull; whereas, his SatAM depiction was Flanderized to the point of pure annoyance.

In my series, I completely redid the character and gave him a whole new personally. Instead of the cowardly joke he was in the show, I made him more of a vain, swashbuckling soldier with a narcissistic and pompous attitude. He is also a bit of an uptight control freak who sees himself as superior compared to his peers. Kinda like a combination of Rabbit from "Winnie-the-Pooh" and Squidward, mixed with "The Three Musketeers".

The role of the coward, however, I gave to Porker Lewis from the Fleetway comics, since I see him as a more sympathetic character.

[E122Psi]

 

Antoine is one of those characters to have character-depictions on opposite sides of the spectrum. In Archie, he's rather muddled and kinda dull; whereas, his SatAM depiction was Flanderized to the point of pure annoyance.

In my series, I completely redid the character and gave him a whole new personally. Instead of the cowardly joke he was in the show, I made him more of a vain, swashbuckling soldier with a narcissistic and pompous attitude. He is also a bit of an uptight control freak who sees himself as superior compared to his peers. Kinda like a combination of Rabbit from "Winnie-the-Pooh" and Squidward, mixed with "The Three Musketeers".

The role of the coward, however, I gave to Porker Lewis from the Fleetway comics, since I see him as a more sympathetic character.

 

That actually sounds like a decent characterization that still fits Antoine, one that is somewhat competent, but still in a very buffoonish and bombastic sort of way. I suppose the cowardice could work in the sense of having occasional Miles Gloriosus moments, even if it doesn't have to be overdone like in Satam. Just maybe humorous 'oh crap' moments he realizes he's in over his head.

 

I've always considered Sally the 'control freak' of the group though, sort of to make her contrast Sonic to a fault and play on her meticulous disposition. It would be in a more subtle, well meaning sense, but I do see her as a slightly inflexible 'I know what's best for everyone more than they do' type. Twilight Sparkle from FIM would likely be a good reference for this, she has many key flaws of a meticulous character and she develops on the somewhat pushy, acerbic but kind intentioned qualities Sally sometimes had in the show and early comics. I might be over thinking it though, I'd like Sally to get more quirkier moments to loosen the 'always dignified female' image that tends to grate on many.

 

Tails is another character that's been on both sides of the spectrum, being either an incompetent infant, or the purely tech/exposition guy and basically a forty year old in an eight year old's body. Similar to Ant, one is too ineffectual and the other is too bland. The OVA was probably the best at compromising the two as well as making these aspects more dynamic and endearing.

 

Concerning stereotypes, I don't think they're a bad thing. Most good characters use a stereotype as a base, it's just they need to expand to have more depth and loveability outside of it. FIM uses tons of stereotypes, many of which are actually used by Sonic characters, but many love them because the show still gets loads of extra depths and some degree of character development out of them. I preferred the klutzy Rotor of the pilot, and the more Southern Belle-ish and rowdy Bunnie got, the more fun she usually was. It's just they needed proper expansion to stick out. When Archie tried to ditch these stereotypes so they could be taken more seriously, it usually just made them more bland since no other quirks were put in place of them.

[RedAuthar]

 

 

Concerning stereotypes, I don't think they're a bad thing. Most good characters use a stereotype as a base, it's just they need to expand to have more depth and loveability outside of it. FIM uses tons of stereotypes, many of which are actually used by Sonic characters, but many love them because the show still gets loads of extra depths and some degree of character development out of them. I preferred the klutzy Rotor of the pilot, and the more Southern Belle-ish and rowdy Bunnie got, the more fun she usually was. It's just they needed proper expansion to stick out. When Archie tried to ditch these stereotypes so they could be taken more seriously, it usually just made them more bland since no other quirks were put in place of them.

 

That has been the ultimate problem with many shows and comics with large casts.  They are required to have diversity, but to avoid offending people most of the characters are bland and interchangeable.  

 

Being a stereotype is NOT a bad thing, being an offensive stereotype is.  

[LogiTeeka]

Well, Sally is partially a control-freak, but is much more reasonable and understanding. When Antoine gets angery, he gets highly flustered and ruffled, and is easily prone to getting annoyed.

Compared with Sally, she's much more composed and never looses her temper over such trivial things. Her major weakness, however, is extreame stress or anxiety whenever she can't find a reasonable solution (which is where Sonic steps in). Her other flaw being she can be just as bullheaded and cocky as Sonic; though she doesn't want to admit it.

[E122Psi]

I dunno, one of the fun parts of her in the show was how easily Sonic could get under her skin. She wasn't an over the top case, but she had a uptight demeanour and was prone to neuroses. A key example was in 'Sonic and the Secret Scrolls' where Sonic undermines her idea, with the argument deteriorating to the point Sally is more or less acting like a bratty child, stomping her foot and yelling at Sonic to knock it off.

 

I agree she isn't really self aggrandising or a bully about it, she's not narcissist, she's just assured her way will be the best for everyone and doesn't understand when people fight her trying to protect them. I'm not sure about her being cocky however, at least not in the sense of her being reckless like Sonic, that's somewhat the opposite of what she represents. She can be over assured she's right and make mistakes in her ego, but I feel it would be more likely due to her being inflexible and refusing to go against her 'by the book' approach, which can lead to your aforementioned problem with her unable to improvise when something changes that screws up the plan.

 

There's also some decent background and role that goes into Sally being so rigid and by the book, she's the team leader (or at least de facto leader compared to Sonic, she has some play in power to vent this trait. What's more, the setup allows it to be a sympathetic trait, she's been in charge of missions where one screw up can lead to people being lost. It extends even more so in the comics where she has a strict father that teaches her to obey the orders of a magic pool than trust her or other's own initiative. She seems a character that insists every single step be meditated and supervised ten fold, terrified of the plan not being tight enough for something to go wrong.

 

I may stand by this more because being meticulous seemed like Sally's defining trait, being a control freak is a key defect that comes from being too meticulous. Antoine has plenty of defects to fall back on since he's an all around pompous glory hound, Sally however is a more subtle character and one of the criticisms that comes from it is that it limits her defects and her positive aspects often take over and make her boring or too 'perfect', or that they are reduced to using Compressed Vices that don't really compliment her default character (as said, making her reckless when it's rarely a part of her normal character).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LogiTeeka]

I haven't gotten rid of that trait; Sally still gets annoyed by Sonic's recklessness and antics. But compared to Antoine, she's much more reasonable and even-tempered, trying everything she can to keep balance amongst the team.

It's difficult to explain in perfect words, so I'll just send you a link to my series: http://sonicfanon.wi...i/Sonic_Satam-X

[Vlad Yvhv]

3rd season. Reboots/remakes have a 99% chance of ruining what you liked about the origional. A newer version of SatAM wouldn't be able to capture the magic of the origional. It would simply be a pale imitation.

[E122Psi]

@LogiTeeka: I can relate to that I guess, depends how the whole thing looks like in execution really. I guess it's being complex with character traits. I think too often the Satam cast were simplified in personality traits, especially in Season Two. You're either smart or dumb, humble or arrogant, etc. There are no mediums or sub categories to make the traits more complex.

 

I never really get why so many bios call Sally humble for example. She is in the sense of disliking special treatment and not being a glory hound or show off, but she was definitely a very haughty character originally, just in a much different way from Sonic or Antoine. If anything the fact Sonic and Sally were basically two warring egos was what made them so fun. As mentioned there were also plenty of small but palpable little bits of character in Season One that made the other characters stand out more. Without them they became more just bland extras afterwards. 

 

This is what you lose from simplifying characteristics, it can completely lose pivotal strengths and weaknesses in a character's personality. Hell some virtues may be vices from another point of view.

[Vampfox]

As much as I'd like a third season of Satam at this point in time a reboot makes more sense then another season. Personally I'd like to see a few Sega sonic elements such as Shadow and Rouge. As I've said before Satam was too black and white so I think that it would be interesting to add some characters that fell into a gray area. 

[SBaby]

I have to go with a reboot.  From a logical standpoint, it makes the most sense.  If they wanted to make something related to SatAM, this would be the most marketable way to do it.

[Shadow]

We're never getting a third season. And so much time has passed that even if one was made we wouldn't be satisfied with it. Too much hype and waiting. Better to just start over.

[Vlad Yvhv]

It took 30 years for someone to work up a prequel to John Carpenter's The Thing, but the wait was worth it. They took the time and effort to go over the intricate details of the scenes involving the ruins of Thull Station. They listened to the fans and managed to work in some of the more logical fan theories regarding some aspects of Thing abilities. They were respectful to the mythology of the origional and made a wonderful companion piece to it. So, don't give up on a Season 3 of SatAM. All it really needs is some people willing to do some hard work and who will respect what is loved about SatAM, and perhaps change a few things that aren't so loved, in a manner that's not going to break anything major.

An alternative idea that comes to mind is doing something akin to what they did with Voltron Force and the 2008 Knight Rider series: Make a new show, but make it a continuation of the continuity/mythology of the original. This is a good way to bypass the problems of a remake/reboot, while still somewhat pandering to that crowd. I really don't think that the idea of completely starting over is a good idea. You have to re-hash plots and screw around with what people liked, which treads on dangerous ground. If someone were to make a remake/reboot of SatAM, it wouldn't have the same tone, because they'd be pandering to today's kids. And that means a lot more crude humor and idiocy and generally awful writing and plots. I dare you to find an honest-to-God Dukes Of Hazzard fan who doesn't want to take the people who made the remake/reboot movie and gut-shoot them and let them bleed out out in the woods. That's what you're risking when you support a "reboot".