13 replies to this topic

[Mike Arcade]

We all know that Ian Flynn is going to give us the dirt on what he planned for Archie Sonic sometime this Summer with Lost Hedgehog Tales, but that did make me wonder what other writers had planned for The Comic, specifically Karl Bollers and Ken Penders.

What they planned for Archie Sonic however, simply put I think if they were to continue the book as they wanted to it would have been cancelled, but what do you guys think? Here are the links to what they would have done, and what could have been.

Karl Bollers: http://archive.today/bacT

 

Ken Penders: http://www.kenpender...c.php?f=5&t=122

[RedAuthar]

The sad thing is a lot of Ken's ideas here were pretty good.  

[TheRedStranger]

The sad thing is a lot of Ken's ideas here were pretty good.  

 

Indeed you can't entierly villify a person like Ken. The tragedy is that they do have the potential to do something...but they - due to ego, inactivity, shortsightness, comprimising, ecttera -  miss their marks. People can be great at ideas, but dunces at manifesting those ideas in a comic book, which takes a lot of work. Sometimes we have good ideas, but our sloppy execution...well...executes those ideas. When dealing with what could have been we must take into account if would have been done right. So, this begs the question:

 

Could these ideas fit in the story and work welll in context and execution of the writers given? Which ideas were good? But more importantly, which ideas could've worked.

[Mike Arcade]

I do agree with you on that Red, well most of it anyway, I'll explain but I wasn't too crazy on a few things, that and at that point with all the bull behind the scenes I'm not sure Penders would have executed them well enough, which I think has always been a problem overall on his work.

 

So that's what could have happened, and I want to reiterate on why I think it would have been cancelled had Archie not brought in The New Team and Ian Flynn, but instead stuck with either of Penders and Bollers. There are many fans out there that almost religiously hate Ian's take on the book and especially The Reset World, but honestly would the comic have been better with these guys continuing on their own plans?

I get what Ken Penders wanted to do, I do, but the way the pacing is on how damn slow it goes is just not appealing to me. Penders plan was this big "will they, won't they" crap we get in anime for 10 Issues about Bunnie desiding to marry Antoine, and then we she says Yes we'd have to wait 25 Issues until they got Married, if you didn't count the wait for Bunnie to say yes that is. 35 ****ING ISSUES spread over nearly 3 YEARS JUST to see them get married, WHAT KIND OF BULL**** IS THAT!?! I could understand padding it a little bit but MAN, you know what OUR wait was in Archie Sonic, 1 Issue. Now that seems extremely fast, but considering their character arcs and everything that had happened I think it makes a lot of sense, that and we didn't have to wait 3 Damn Years for it. 

 

The rest of his take on future issues sound pretty good, not too wild on Jules looking like how he did before considering he seemed to except his Robian form in previous issues, but the rest sound interesting enough (Sonic able to out rank Sally in one aspect being pretty hilarious, Also Rosie and Chuck sounds like it could work). The biggest one I think is Snively dying a hero, which might have had negative reception more so then good, though Fall Out sounds very interesting and I would have been fine with that as it sounds like a very cool and powerful story arc. Overall while there are some nice concepts there that Penders made the way they are spread out so thin is just a poor choice, and with such choices I believe the Comic would have been cancelled before Penders' Vision of Sonic The Hedgehog could have been completed.

 

Oh and I almost forgot, 25 Years Later would have had a conclusion, and a very confusing one at that too, would that mean the future is just one big time loop now?  I never really understood it, and the whole point of it being that in Penders' Mind it WAS the future of The Book in His Take makes reading all of those planned issues pointless, We'd KNOW how it all ends up! So what's the point of even reading them in that case? I'm not sure, but I'd highly doubt SEGA would have allowed Lara-Su being the future Protagonist of The Series if it ever went that far, and I highly doubt we'll get any answers in His Chronicles either.

 

As for Karl Bollers take on the future of Sonic The Hedgehog, oh dear god where the hell do I even begin? The Question no one reading this book wanted answered was "How would Bollers continue on after The INFAMOUS 134?", especially with such a huge backlash from it. The answer to that is much more shocking and horrifying then you could have ever imagined. You guys all thought 134 was that bad? That is nothing, and I mean NOTHING compared to what Bollers had up his sleeve.

 

I cannot even imagine what fevered insanity runs through that guy's head, it is literally one of THE WORST THINGS I have ever read in my ****ING LIFE, it makes Sonic 2006's Writing look good. I'm not even kidding, it is THAT BAD. Knothole City, The Knothole Special Forces Team, The Pointless Master Geode Arc,  Fiona Fox's Character, Rotor side lined forever, The GOD AWFUL STORY TITLES, NICOLE and ADAM's Romeo and Juliet Plot, Evil Sonic and Naugus' Rehashed Plans, NEARLY EVERYTHING is so AWFUL I can't even put it into coherent sentences.

 

Nearly, as the whole Strand and Source Plot sounded pretty damn interesting, same goes for Bunnie's Origins sans the stupid pun name, and Shadow being feared by Hope is a pretty intense sounding moment, though if anything I can't imagine how spectacularly Bollers would ****  that up.

 

The WORST of it comes in 2 flavors of hell, one being The Heroes Adaption. Nate Morgan not only turns out alive, but human again (Overlander, whatever who gives a ****)! Pretty damn amazing since that means his Robian body had to survive getting NUKED, anyway a Villain from the past finds him, befriends him, and then proceeds with getting him to build Metal Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and even a Metal Amy kicking off the adaption. And who is this Sinister Mastermind, why none other then...Coconuts...yes THIS ( http://sonic.wikia.c...c_the_Hedgehog)) Coconuts. Do I even need to say what is WRONG with this!?! How out of the ****ing blue is this you tell me! Oh but it gets EVEN WORSE, do you know who ends up as Sonic's Main Squeeze in Sally's Place? Go on guess, I dare you, you won't get this right...it's Amy Rose. Yes you read that right, The 9 Year Old who turned herself what 13 years old physically ends up with Sonic. Yeah, SICK ****!!!!!!! I'm not even joking, THAT was his plan, I'm sure SEGA would have LOVED to hear about that one, it would have NEVER gotten in Comics EVER. It was wrong when Hal Jordan did it way back when and it was wrong when Bollers though of it in Archie Sonic.

 

I could continue but it really does speak for itself, Bollers take without a doubt in my mind would have canned Archie Sonic MUCH more faster then Penders' Poor Pacing could have EVER DONE. I thank god that this never hit the pages every time I read it, I can't even think about it anymore.

 

So, when I hear Archie Sonic fans always complaining about how "Ian ruined Archie Sonic" and crap like that, they don't know what kind of firing squad they dodged all those years ago, personally I think The New Team saved The Comic. People can argue about this as many times as they want to, and they are allowed to since some of the stuff isn't perfect, but I think we are better off then What Could Have Been.

[RedAuthar]

 

I do agree with you on that Red

...Red me or Red him?

 

 

I'm not sure Penders would have executed them well enough, which I think has always been a problem overall on his work.

Completely agree.  

 

 

Penders plan was this big "will they, won't they" crap we get in anime for 10 Issues about Bunnie desiding to marry Antoine, and then we she says Yes we'd have to wait 25 Issues until they got Married, if you didn't count the wait for Bunnie to say yes that is. 35 ****ING ISSUES spread over nearly 3 YEARS JUST to see them get married, WHAT KIND OF BULL**** IS THAT!?!

Yeah that part was a bad idea.  However you have to remember in the planning stage that's only a few paragraphs apart. 

 

 

not too wild on Jules looking like how he did before considering he seemed to except his Robian form in previous issues

Because he's a good father and trying not to have his family worry about him.  He never said he was happy with it, just he knew there was nothing he could do about it.

 

 

The biggest one I think is Snively dying a hero, which might have had negative reception more so then good,

I liked this idea for a few reasons.

1) Snively is constantly being portrayed as less evil than Robotnik in earlier issues.

2) Snively is incompetent at being evil.  

3) Snively disappears for many issues all the time.  

4) Nobody stays dead in comic books. 

 

 

Oh and I almost forgot, 25 Years Later would have had a conclusion, 

Best news I heard all day.

25YL was a stupid idea to begin with.  Sure the little glimpses of the future were fun, but the sudden future storylines ruined and love triangles, potential character deaths, and worry that Sonic might lose to Robotnik because we knew how his future was to be.

 

And honestly, until Locke died, there was no evidence to support 25YL was wrong/not the expect outcome.

 

 

As for Karl Bollers take on the future of Sonic The Hedgehog, oh dear god where the hell do I even begin?

Haven't bothered to look yet.  

[Mike Arcade]

Red You, I call Red Stranger just Stranger, really helps out, but I do agree with Stranger as well.

 

True, true.

 

Even in the planning stages, that was not a good idea, granted we got a Speed Run Wedding sort of in Archie Sonic but at least it was genuine, sweet, and we didn't have to wait 3 Years for it.

 

Hmm, I'd have to reread those issues with Jules then, I don't know but I think it could have been handled a lot better.

 

True, though with that rule in Comic Books it does cheapen his death if that was the case, but it was a good idea, I just don't think that the fanbase would have agreed to it.

 

Thanks, it really does make no sense whatsoever, especially King Sonic as a concept itself since Royalty doesn't work that way. I'd rather have the future not set, besides with a series like Sonic truly it can never be, I just wish some people would finally understand that.

 

You haven't? Oh man you are in for a treat, come back here and post once you read it.

[LogiTeeka]

While most of Bollers' proposed ideas were stupid, I honestly find them more interesting than anything Penders had in mind.

 

It probably has to do with their writing styles. Bollers' plans sound like stuff you'd expect from the franchise (not good, but still authentic), whereas the premises to Penders' stuff sound like something belonging to a completely different comic. In the end, I'd take the thing that's closer to the spirit rather than something that feels out of place.

[Mike Arcade]

Extremely Stupid, but I get how it would sound more interesting then Penders' Work considering how fixed his continuity and timeline is, and that was his problem. By having it all in (if I may borrow this line from The Doctor) a Fixed Point in Time, it just out right ****s everything else being read as the future is set (according to Penders), meaning it's all pointless and there is no risk left to be found. Why he doesn't realize this and say it is an alternate future to the book as he would have liked it I will never know.

 

I honestly disagree with you on that, I don't expect that to be authentic to Sonic as a whole when it came to several of those stories concepts. Now, having Coconuts SOMEHOW be a threat does sound interesting (maybe with Scratch and Grounder?) the way he wanted it to go is just crap. Though I do agree with you on Penders later stuff sounding like it would be in a different comic book, Bollers stuff sounds like it would be in a bad comic book or fan fiction. For a Sonic Comic while I'm not expecting a masterpiece I expect it to be a good comic about adventures of a blue hedgehog and his friends, to me Bollers stuff doesn't have that spirit.

 

I mean SatAM and STC went a little out of bounds but I think kept the spirit of Sonic, that and The New Archie Sonic for a more literal example of keeping the spirit of Sonic, that's just me though.

[RedAuthar]

You don't have to follow the Games to have a good Sonic Story, however straying too far will kill it.  

 

Example: MxYL Series - Barely even features recognizable characters....it's like a bad fanfic about the main character's kids.  I'm not saying a future generation wouldn't be interesting, but it's not really a Sonic story if it follows Knuckles's daughter is it?

[Uncle Ben]

Example: MxYL Series - Barely even features recognizable characters....it's like a bad fanfic about the main character's kids.  I'm not saying a future generation wouldn't be interesting, but it's not really a Sonic story if it follows Knuckles's daughter is it?

 

It was a bad fan fic

[Mike Arcade]

I know you don't have to exactly follow the games to make a good story for Sonic, after all SatAM is a far departure from the games with few elements from them. But some to a little more help, like STC.

 

And yes, MxYL WAS a Bad Fan Fic, everyone knows that. At least Ian Flynn made the end of it and 30YL decent to pretty cool.

[RedAuthar]

Just to verify I wasn't directing my comment towards you, just commenting. 

 

 

 

And yes, MxYL WAS a Bad Fan Fic, everyone knows that. At least Ian Flynn made the end of it and 30YL decent to pretty cool.

30YL was a step in the right direction but still wasn't all that great.  Honestly I found it boring and uninteresting because all the characters were kinda just thrown in your face.  

 

In the Penders you did briefly get introduced to the characters and find out who they were as the story progressed.  In Flynn's most of these characters just are.  They aren't bad, but I feel like they were forced in there just to feature a larger cast, which would be fine...if we cared enough of what was going on to return to these characters later.  

 

But I don't care for the future gen of a Sonic comic, I want the "now" generation.  If they wanted to do a future gen as a separate series and it was good, I'd pick that up.  But I'd rather not have them interrupt what Knuckles is doing now for a daughter I don't like that he had with Julie-Su who you all know I also don't like. 

[Mike Arcade]

No I figured that, I wasn't sure if I was making myself clear, but I agree with you on that.

 

30YL was mainly Silver just trying to find out stuff about "The Traitor" and ended up there, I thought it was pretty cool but I will agree that some characters (like Bunnie and Antoine's Kids) just popped out of nowhere.

 

Yes we were, but at the same time the story never really kicked into gear and when it finally did it was too little too late, again a LOT of pacing issues which ruined the story that could have been really interesting. Ian's take on it was pretty interesting aside from characters popping up, it was an interesting story but not one I'd go back to over and over, I thought it was okay.

 

Exactly, I mean a Future Gen COULD be possible and done right, maybe not exactly having their kids as the successors but you never know. Honestly my favorite examples of A Next Gen in Video Games for example would have to be Garou Mark Of The Wolves and The Street Fighter III Series, if they did something similar to that then I'd be all for it. 

[RedAuthar]

The other problem is Sonic himself.  There's passing the torch...and being to scared to you let it burn everything.

 

If they wanna be a next gen, great.  But then replace Sonic.  He needs to pass the torch for this situation to fit.  If he doesn't.....well....it's just Sonic....with a new cast of fan characters................  making it a bigger fan fiction.