15 replies to this topic

[HeavensChampion]

Remember those Antoine shorts? Well, what if there you episodes focused on other characters, like Bunnie or Lupe?

[Uncle Ben]

I honestly believe Lupe should have been introduced much sooner than she was

[Mike Arcade]

Ah yes, The Character Episodes, my favorite ones, remember the Bunnie, Rotor, and Tails centered episode? Yeah, those were awesome.....if they ever exist...damn it.

 

Seriously, I will NEVER understand why they never made those episodes, granted Rotor and Tails got a little spot light in 1 or 2 episodes but Bunnie? BIG missed opportunity right there, I guess I could blame that one producer (or was it a director) who didn't like Rotor and maybe Bunnie but I don't know.

 

I do agree with Ben about Lupe and The Wolf Pack though, also couldn't we get an episode with those Freedom Fighter Leaders that showed up last minute for the finale (The Bear and Rhino Mobians), I just think they were there for convenience more then anything else. 

 

Come to think of it, were Sonic, Sally, Antoine, Bunnie, and Rotor the ONLY Freedom Fighters in Knothole? Other then that Cat guy we didn't see anyone else from Knothole fight the last time I checked the show. You mean to tell me that only 5 Teenagers (and Tails, we can't forget him) were the only ones with enough balls to take on The Dictator and Ruler of The Planet, while everyone just decided to live out the rest of their lives in Knothole, not fighting and being complete pussies. The only time I remember seeing anyone else (along with characters who would later become Geoffrey and Hamlin "Meat Shield" Pig in Archie Sonic) was when they were cheering for The Freedom Fighters victories in a few episodes, that's it. Some of them like the above mentioned designs looked like Freedom Fighter but we never see any of them in combat or on missions. If I were any of them I'd be wondering why I'm risking my life for these lazy a**holes, and here I though The People of Acorn started to become pricks during King Naugus' Rule in Archie Sonic.

[E122Psi]

Sub Sonic and Hooked On Sonics were decent attempts at deconstructing the personalities of Rotor and Antoine, but yeah, otherwise I think these were rare. Bunnie got a VERY brief look into her insecurities in Sonic and Sally as well, but not really enough to call it 'her' episode.

 

A large part of what I think let down the characterization was that they never rotated character focus that much. The personality based episodes were usually focused on Sonic (usually a lesson about his ego or recklessness) with Sally as his straight man and Antoine as his straw loser so he didn't look TOO incompetent. I think this led to other characters (who rarely had room as a foil) to get demoted and the three characters in question to get simplified due to being in the same role over and over (eg. the 'Sonic's always wrong and Sally's always right' complaint, or Antoine just being a bastion of negative qualities.

 

Looking into other characters and their facets and how they faced up to them could have made them so much more whole. What about an episode focusing on Dulcy actually having to overcome her clumsiness or Antoine being the straight man for once. Imagine how many new depths this could have added. Not even the comics have delved into this all that much, even when they try it involves more exposition or compressed vices that don't really play into their actual characterization.

[LogiTeeka]

I felt the dynamic of three main characters worked much better in "Underground"; you had Sonic (the bullheaded but competent leader), Sonia (the frustrated yet compassionate sister), and Manic (the easygoing comic relief) constantly working off each other and each episode focused on their relationship and mission.

SatAM, on the other hand, I felt had too many characters. To make things easier at a minimum, Hurst and Allee probably took the most distinctive/colorful members of the cast (Sonic, Sally, and Antoine) and made them the main focus of the second season.

[Uncle Ben]

SatAM, on the other hand, I felt had too many characters. To make things easier at a minimum, Hurst and Allee probably took the most distinctive/colorful members of the cast (Sonic, Sally, and Antoine) and made them the main focus of the second season.

 

But Bunnie and Rotor was just as colorful.

[Mike Arcade]

They were, but a certain Producer or Writer didn't like them so they weren't focused during Season 2

[Uncle Ben]

I personally think they should have started episodes about a character towards the end of season 1 and throughout season 2. It would have been better to build up the characters and perhaps could have made Season 3 happen. And as i said they should have introduced Lupe and the Wolf Pack much sooner than they did

[LogiTeeka]

But Bunnie and Rotor was just as colorful.

I meant their original SatAM depictions. Bunnie was basically a sweetheart while Rotor was mostly a soft-spoken inventor. Not a whole lot to really work an entire episode around.

The thing they both lacked then was probably livelier traits to play off of. Compared to her original SatAM depiction, Archie Bunnie is more energetic and upbeat; a rip-tootin' cowgirl with the gentleness of a "southern belle". And Archie Rotor's latest depiction makes him a badass battle-mechanic while still keeping his obsessive nerdy traits (similar to Donatello from TMNT). Basically exaggerating their personalities a bit.

[E122Psi]

Actually I find their newer interpretations blander than those in Satam/early comics, largely because the latter had a lot more whimsy to work of off. The comics rely too much on exposition and dramatic, lucid characterizations. Rotor can't stammer or act like a klutz in the comics, nor could Bunnie act ditzy or like a grouch. I think this is also where even the spotlighted characters profited from, or at least could have (Sally was more of a self righteous neurotic originally, and Antoine was a pathos inducing klutz with a huge ego). Only Sonic remained all that colorful. The comics don't really allow the characters to make use of their more 'cartoony' quirks because that underplays their more 'mature' storyline, which is a problem since it's where a lot of their defining traits come from.

 

Concerning Underground I think it was also the fact the dynamic was also more two way, in that rather than keeping the same characters in the same role all the time, they shown how their traits could take part both positively and negatively according to different situations, eg. Sonic could be the instigator one episode, and then the straight man the other, same for Sonia or Manic. Satam's three characters had a far more consistent (and as such more limited) hierarchy, the flawed hero, the straight man and the comic relief, with the roles never switching. 

[RedAuthar]

Characters, specifically for long running series need to grow and expand.

 

Archie Rotor and Bunnie went through many changes, each having a role and cosmetic change as their spot on the team changed.  

 

In SatAM their roles were so stable they were written out of the plot to support the Main team's (Sonic Sally, Antoine and Dulcy) panel time.  

 

Also these main characters learn a lesson in one episode just to forget it by the next.  While for a movie or short series staying with one character trait is great.  However in a long running series those characters get old and start losing credibility because they don't grow. 

[E122Psi]

Characters, specifically for long running series need to grow and expand.

 

Archie Rotor and Bunnie went through many changes, each having a role and cosmetic change as their spot on the team changed.  

 

In SatAM their roles were so stable they were written out of the plot to support the Main team's (Sonic Sally, Antoine and Dulcy) panel time.  

 

Also these main characters learn a lesson in one episode just to forget it by the next.  While for a movie or short series staying with one character trait is great.  However in a long running series those characters get old and start losing credibility because they don't grow. 

My problem with the Archie comics is most of it's 'development' equates to taking away most of the character's defining traits until they're interchangeable slates rather than moderating them by adding any new depths. Antoine's development could have been interesting to watch if it wasn't just a case of taking away ALL of his buffoonish qualities (eg. most of the stuff that made his personality) and making him another generic brave hero. Even inverting his old traits to have redeeming qualities could have made for depthful development (eg. having his fearfulness make him more cautious or tactful than just cowardly) but instead it was just a simple case of turning him into another normal hero, ie. bland. Hell they've lingered for ages on how to give Sally flawed moments, even when they're genuinely trying.

 

You can't really make a lot of stories that the Archie cast's personalities progress in any way, it's usually just a case of things happening TO them.

[RedAuthar]

Day one Archie, Ant wasn't a coward or really a bumbling baffoon.  Most of that was caused by Sonic pulling pranks on him or making a sarcastic comment about him.  What he had was the Jack Sparrow/Indiana Jones way of solving a problem, just unluckily being lucky.  

[E122Psi]

Day one Archie, Ant wasn't a coward or really a bumbling baffoon.  Most of that was caused by Sonic pulling pranks on him or making a sarcastic comment about him.  What he had was the Jack Sparrow/Indiana Jones way of solving a problem, just unluckily being lucky.  

He was however still a pompous ass filled with delusions of grandeur. You could make stories chained by his flaws. Later Antoine was made so much to intentionally subvert this by being completely humble, lucid and competent you can't really do much with him.

[RedAuthar]

That's dependent on what you consider the modern issues:

Cuz in 2010 this happened and you can't honestly tell me he wasn't being a pompous windbag in this issue:

 

And remember he's been in a coma since 2012 so for two years he's only personality trait has been existing, and hasn't really done anything but again be there in the new wave so he character traits haven't been fully established.  

 

Though I totally agree, after a while the Main Cast seem to be just interchangeable name drops. 

[FunnelVortex]

Every show has character episodes. Antoine's were just the most obvious.