13 replies to this topic

[ZealousFoX]

Hello, just thought for my first official post. I would post about my latest youtube additition, that I took a lot of time in to create. So far its been recieved well and since its on SatAM i figured this is the perfect spot to show it.
 
Let me know what you think?

 

http://www.youtube.c...p&feature=share

[LogiTeeka]

"The one show that got everything correct." Eh?

 

Not to seem intrusive, but not everything in the show was perfect. Some character portrayals got worse as the series went on (succumbing to Flanderization), some plots went nowhere, and some ideas weren't implemented well into the series. While I admire the effort and dedication put into the series' direction by its creators, it isn't as perfect as most claim it to be. Not to mention the show is somewhat dated by today's standards.

 

That's not to say I dislike the series. In fact, I enjoy the series full-heartedly; but even I will admit its flawed in its directions. I like the the series so much, I acknowledge and put up with its problems whenever I watch it.

 

Also, I'm getting pretty sick of the whole "Sonic isn't for kids" argument. Many fans were kids when they first watched the series because they were in the target demographic at that time. But as time passes by, we grow up and our perspective of the world changes. And oftentimes, the shows we grew up with get dated because we're no longer within the age of the target demographic. And honestly, I wish people would stop calling family shows/movies "adult" because that's not what they're targeted primarily towards. Shows and movies like those are meant to attract audiences of all ages; and throw in everything those demographics find enjoyable. For example, compare something like "Care Bears" or "Die Hard" with something like one of the many Pixar films. "Care Bears" and "Die Hard" have aspects that pander towards specific age demographics which the other won't find appealing; whereas Pixar films have colorful characters, gags, and lessons to entertain/educate children, some jokes and profound themes for adults to ponder over, and scenes for the elderly to enjoy (whichever that is). Now THAT'S a definitive family movie.

 

With that in mind, SatAM is definitely a darker series compared to something like AoStH or "Sonic X" (in some aspects). But what makes it appealing, even by today, is its wider target demographic. It takes itself more seriously and had profound lessons, but also has enough fantasy/sci-fi surrealism, colorful characters, and humor to entertain younger watchers. That, by all means, makes it a family series.

[RedAuthar]

One thing the show did right for sure was that the lessons weren't always right up in your face.  Most "kid" shows had a lesson that was shoved down your throat.  SatAM usually wove the lesson rather well into the episode.

 

For example:  What really was the lesson from Griff's episode?  Was it "Don't Be Jealous", "Something aren't always as good as they seem", or "Sometimes you need to work together, even when you don't get along"?

[Captain Sorzo]

For example:  What really was the lesson from Griff's episode?  Was it "Don't Be Jealous", "Something aren't always as good as they seem", or "Sometimes you need to work together, even when you don't get along"?

 

I always interpreted it as "Giant robotic rats are bad news."

 

Aside from the bit about the show being dated (the slang manages to be endearing, while the art quality trumps any form of animation I've ever seen save The Secret of NIMH), I more or less agree with LogiTeeka on this one. I love SatAM to death, but it's a very flawed series. In fact, at least in my case, much of the appeal of writing (and reading) SatAM fanfiction stems from a desire to improve the series, to eliminate its flaws while exploring its themes and subtext on a deeper level than would be permissible or plausible for a children's cartoon with a strict timetable. On its own, SatAM manages to be great despite its flaws. When used as the basis for works meant to harness its full potential, however, it becomes astonishing, offering one of the best fictional worlds I've ever seen.

[LogiTeeka]

Aside from the bit about the show being dated (the slang manages to be endearing, while the art quality trumps any form of animation I've ever seen save The Secret of NIMH), I more or less agree with LogiTeeka on this one.

 

The animation was decent at best. It definitely had the best animation out of all the DIC cartoons I've seen (especially the video-game ones), but compared to other shows like "DuckTales", "TailSpin", or "Chip n' Dale Rescue Rangers"; it doesn't really stand a chance.

 

Also, I take it you don't watch that many animated films or series often. I won't deny that "The Secret of NIMH" has beautiful animation, but I can think of a few other animated films/series that also have beautiful art.

[ZealousFoX]

Wow Duck Tales,Tails Spin, and Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers, my thee other favorite cartoons, and the fact NIMH is metioned. Now I know I'm part of the right community.

[kamifox1]

I think he means "SATAM isn't purely for kids" not that it's not for kids full stop. That's what constantly annoys me, when people like me, myself included, get grief for liking things like SATAM or Sonic in general when they're within my age group (20s) or older because it's seen as kids stuff, far from it. Most of the "kiddy" things we still enjoy now, we still enjoy because they're designed to be enjoyed by all age groups, not just one and they are, I mean, look at the most common age group on this site alone!

 

Anyway, just thought I'd clear that up. I do, however, agree with the show having many flaws but I don't necessarily agree with the animation and artwork being two of them, they're actually some of the best I've seen from DiC (I won't say in general because it was a very typical look at the time) and much better than what most production teams slap together in a matter of weeks nowadays with the aid of computer software and CG.

[RedAuthar]

I couldn't get into Tail Spin....mostly cuz I didn't like Jungle Book that much so I already didn't like the characters.

 

I gave my review on NIMH when I finally broke down and watched it....somewhere in the review the last thing you watched thread.

 

  

 

 

I always interpreted it as "Giant robotic rats are bad news."

 

Yup.  Just look what they did to poor Beast Wars.

 

Back on topic:

 

I have to agree that SatAM had a lot of flaws...*insert Dulcy Joke here*.  The first season didn't really have a congruent storyline which in some instances helped (they could be watched in any order, newcomers could pick it up at any episode, Rotor and Bunnie got more screen time) but also caused major problems too (Characters didn't seem to mature...they forgot everything they learned each episode.)

 

The Reverse happened in the second season.  Also Bunnie and Rotor seemed to get kinda booted out, having nearly no development or roles outside of just being there to remind us they exist.  Antoine downgraded to being so quirky he's useless.  And the more I watch the show the more I have to admit I can see where non-SatAM/Archie fans find Sally as a Mary-Sue, as she tended to be in every episode, and tended to be important.  

[LogiTeeka]

Wow Duck Tales,Tails Spin, and Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers, my thee other favorite cartoons, and the fact NIMH is metioned. Now I know I'm part of the right community.

 

Is it wrong to mention that I also like several modern cartoons like "Adventure Time", "Regular Show", "Phineas and Ferb", "Avatar" (both series), "The Clone Wars", and the new "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"? I enjoy both modern and classic cartoons.

 

However, that's not to say all modern cartoons are good. For example, I greatly loathe overrated shows like "Family Guy" and "Johnny Test". 

[Prince ByTor]

I think he means "SATAM isn't purely for kids" not that it's not for kids full stop. That's what constantly annoys me, when people like me, myself included, get grief for liking things like SATAM or Sonic in general when they're within my age group (20s) or older because it's seen as kids stuff, far from it. Most of the "kiddy" things we still enjoy now, we still enjoy because they're designed to be enjoyed by all age groups, not just one and they are, I mean, look at the most common age group on this site alone!

 

Anyway, just thought I'd clear that up. I do, however, agree with the show having many flaws but I don't necessarily agree with the animation and artwork being two of them, they're actually some of the best I've seen from DiC (I won't say in general because it was a very typical look at the time) and much better than what most production teams slap together in a matter of weeks nowadays with the aid of computer software and CG.

 

I agree, that's what I've been saying all along.

[Captain Sorzo]

 

Aside from the bit about the show being dated (the slang manages to be endearing, while the art quality trumps any form of animation I've ever seen save The Secret of NIMH), I more or less agree with LogiTeeka on this one.

 

The animation was decent at best. It definitely had the best animation out of all the DIC cartoons I've seen (especially the video-game ones), but compared to other shows like "DuckTales", "TailSpin", or "Chip n' Dale Rescue Rangers"; it doesn't really stand a chance.

 

Also, I take it you don't watch that many animated films or series often. I won't deny that "The Secret of NIMH" has beautiful animation, but I can think of a few other animated films/series that also have beautiful art.

 

 

My statement referred to overall art quality, not the animation specifically. Art direction and detail are much more important that animation fluidity to me, as they can actually enhance atmosphere and therefore improve the narrative, and it's in those regards that the visuals of SatAM soar. The Disney Afternoon shows you mentioned aren't exactly slacking in the art department either, especially compared to most modern cartoons (I may prefer Kim Possible and Gravity Falls to their Disney Afternoon predecessors thanks to their writing, but in terms of art they're woefully inferior), but there's nothing in their visuals that stands out and engages the mind. They're technically proficient, but nothing more. The same holds true for most animated films. Despite their fluidity and technical prowess, very rarely do they produce things as striking as the environments of Robotropolis.

 

Part of the problem is that most animated art styles opt for a very clean approach, whereas I prefer dirty, grungy styles that make the setting feel more real and lived in. SatAM and NIMH both do this; other favorites of mine that do the same are Jonny Quest and the Rankin/Bass adaptations of The Hobbit and The Return of the King.

 

Ultimately, it all comes down to personal taste in aesthetics. Your rather patronizing presumption of my ignorance was unwarranted.

[LogiTeeka]

On the contrary, I thought the background art for SatAM (as well as "Underground") was superb. The atmosphere is radiant (especially during the scenes in Knothole Village) and it's fun looking for all the hidden little details throughout the backdrop. I'm also impressed that some fans were able to construct a map of the village, using backgrounds from the show as a reference. In many ways, the backgrounds themselves completely outshine the show's overall animation quality.

I wish I could say the same for the character designs, though. While the designs of the Mobian residents look fine on their own merit, their realistic style clashes heavily against Sonic's cartoonish design. In fact, Sonic was the only Mobian character (aside from Uncle Chuck) to have an abnormal color scheme while every other character in the series retained the realistic color of their real-life species. The only time Sonic didn't stick out like a sore thumb was during the pilot episode, where every other character had a more colorful, cartoonish design.

[kamifox1]

That point about the characters is true, I feel Sonic Underground and the Archie comics did that better, they both managed to keep Sonics cartoony style without moving away from the beautiful scenery of Mobius. The comics did this less, however, with the majority of the main characters looking the same as they did in SATAM but a lot of the characters that entered later in moved more towards the cartoony look.

[E122Psi]

Concerning animation, it's always one of those things that's kinda subjective. Animation that is 'good' and animation that is 'entertaining' are two different things. Styles also have to be kept in mind.

 

After all Satam's sister show AoSth went by the method of 'expressive over good', resulting in more slapdash and low budget quality, but more colorful and energetic execution, compared to Satam, that was more detailed and lush in drawing, but more static and inexpressive in character animation (par odd episode scenes which seem to amp it up).

 

It's also a bit hard to judge at times since a lot of shows use a variation of studios, some more experienced and high budget than others. Talespin sticks out for this in particular out of mentioned examples. Many episodes were done by Sun Woo animation, and were kinda along the same line as Satam's average, episodes by Disney's Japan or French units however were incredibly lush.