12 replies to this topic

[Adamis]

I've recently opened a Tumblr account where I'll post lots of Sonic art : http://pencilhill.tumblr.com/

But what's interesting for us SatAM fans is that I've scanned 91 sheets of backgrounds from SONIC UNDERGROUND. And you know what ? A lot of them come from SatAM. So I thought that it would interest you guys.





And for anyone wondering where I got those model sheets, I got them from a friend of mine in 2004. She sold me those Underground sheets (around 400 of them) and maybe 100 or more of Sonic X (those are already on the net. I think I have one or two of Cosmo though).

I was a bit lazy and didn't scan them until now, haha.

There are some funny stuff too :

[LogiTeeka]

All the more proof that " Underground" was originally intended to be a prequel/spin-off of SatAM; and any ideas that weren't used in SatAM were reused in this show instead.

Oddly enough, if it weren't for one minor detail, both shows could've easily taken place within the same continuity.

Thanks for posting these. I love the character model sheets, especially for the background extras. (Is it just me, or do they look better drawn on these model sheets than in the actual show?)

[RedAuthar]

I still think Underground was intended to be a sequel, that just never became one due to SatAM's cancellation and not being able to revive it.

 

I mean think about it.  The main trio are royalty, King Acorn's Statue is seen in the first episode, Robotnik's appearance outta basically no where, and the technology used is superior than that of SatAM.  

[LogiTeeka]

I still think Underground was intended to be a sequel, that just never became one due to SatAM's cancellation and not being able to revive it.

If that's the case, I wonder why DIC insisted that the series was a precursor to SatAM.

I mean think about it. The main trio are royalty, King Acorn's Statue is seen in the first episode, Robotnik's appearance outta basically no where, and the technology used is superior than that of SatAM.

Possibly, but how exactly does Sonic being royal make it take place after SatAM? I mean, his mother was a Queen, and she separated her children to protect them from Robotnik's tyranny. If it took place after SatAM (as your theory suggests), shouldn't their mother be Sally?

If the show were a prequel/spin-off of SatAM (and it almost was), my best guess would be that Sonic's family hails from another kingdom. I mean, Aleena was never stated to be Queen of Mobotropolis during the show. Instead, her domain was later revealed to be the mystical city of Mobodoon. The statue of King Acorn seems to support this, seeing how he was the ruler that Robotnik overthrew back in SatAM.

Though that does beg the question. Did Sally and the rest manage to escape Robotnik's grasp in this alternate timeline? I mean, Sonic does mention being friends with other Freedom Fighters to the oracle. If so, maybe "Sanctuary" is part of... or an alternate name for Knothole Village in the series (on account of it reusing the same backdrop as Knothole).

[RedAuthar]

 

RedAuthar, on 05 Mar 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

I still think Underground was intended to be a sequel, that just never became one due to SatAM's cancellation and not being able to revive it.

If that's the case, I wonder why DIC insisted that the series was a precursor to SatAM.

Well there are many arguments preventing it from being a precursor as well.

 

One is Robotnik.  You could argue since the ending of SatAM was never confirmed on screen that he could come back (the intention) in Underground.  The reverse doesn't work however, as they would have known about Robotnik and never trusted him enough and/or wouldn't explain how his one arm got un-roboticized.  That and Uncle Chuck created the Roboticizor which wouldn't make sense that Robotnik would have one in Underground.  

 

 

Possibly, but how exactly does Sonic being royal make it take place after SatAM? I mean, his mother was a Queen, and she separated her children to protect them from Robotnik's tyranny. If it took place after SatAM (as your theory suggests), shouldn't their mother be Sally?

Keywords were "sequel that never became one".

 

Also on that note who says Sally isn't the grandmother or further back?  Look at Aleena, she could easily be Sally's kid as the three hedgehogs.

That and just personally I see Sonic more willing to name his son after Uncle Chuck than himself, explaining where Undergrounds Uncle Chuck comes from.  

 

 

I mean, Aleena was never stated to be Queen of Mobotropolis during the show. Instead, her domain was later revealed to be the mystical city of Mobodoon.

No I'm pretty sure that's just where the kids were born, not her kingdom.  She's usually referred to as Ruler of Mobius (something more than the Acorn Family has ever claimed).  

 

I see alternate timeline the most likely cuz...well that's what it was.  Though I do believe they intended it to be a sequel originally.

 

 

Though that does beg the question. Did Sally and the rest manage to escape Robotnik's grasp in this alternate timeline? I mean, Sonic does mention being friends with other Freedom Fighters to the oracle. If so, maybe "Sanctuary" is part of... or an alternate name for Knothole Village in the series (on account of it reusing the same backdrop as Knothole). 

Sonic and Uncle Chuck were part of the Freedom Fighters long before Sonic met his siblings.  It's also implied that Uncle Chuck and Sonic aren't the only original members, so likely the Knothole Freedom Fighters would have been part of or at least allied with that group.  

 

Though if this is an alternate timeline where the Hedgehog Family were in power, it does make you wonder how else the Freedom Fighters would be changed.  Would the Acorn family still be royal, or would they be commoners?  In a world with more advanced tech would Rotor have become and idol by being a tech master?  Would NICOLE even exist?  Would Bunnie Be Roboticized?  Would Antoine be part of Aleena's royal guard or the Acorns (if they are still royal)?  

[LogiTeeka]

Funny, this seems like the perfect time to bring up a little theory of mine.

What if I told you that most continuities in the Sonic series were possibly alternate timelines? It may sound like a stretch, but it could work.



P.S. The one listed "Adventures" isn't AoStH, rather it's the short-lived French comic "Sonic Adventures".

[Mike Arcade]

Sonic Underground being a predecessor or successor to SatAM is a nice thought, kind of reminds me of The Legend of Zelda Timeline, even though the theory falls apart completely in the first episode as a predecessor, it COULD be argued that it's a successor but that isn't the case. But it would have been cool for it to be a sequel to SatAM, no idea how that would work but still.

 

Speaking of Timelines, loving the theory LogiTeeka! It does make sense, but does that mean the planet splits in two AND The Xorda Invasion happen afterwards in all of them minus the UK Sonic Series? Besides what are Alternate Timelines anyway overall, rather they just boil down to being Alternate Universes overall, personally I think they are the same thing, they might as well be. Also shouldn't we have the Sol Zone cross with Mobius Prime/Genesis Timeline and Sega Sonic instead of it being straight through Sega Sonic? Personally we should have Sonic 2006 and it's future splinter off maybe considering it's background, also AoSTH would be apart of The Mobius' alongside SatAM, Underground, Mobius Prime, etc. right? Sorry I'm asking a lot of questions and such but I could help out with the timeline if you want. It would be a web of lines that just go crazy.

[LogiTeeka]

Well, to answer your questions, Mike, alternate timelines are basically alternate universes that stem from a single source and share much in common with the other universes... except that certain historical events within those universes happened differently, leading to completely different outcomes. And while there is a prime timeline where events occur accordingly, the other timelines continue to exist, but in a different stream separate from the main timeline.

So, while Earth stayed in tact and continues to exist on its own in the SegaSonic timeline, the planet split into two separate worlds in both the "Sonic X" and Fleetway timelines; while in another timeline, the Xorda invaded, leading to the creation of Mobius Prime and all it's variant histories.

And yes, the idea that the Sol Zone could potentially be the SegaSonic timeline's future also complies with Mobius Prime's timeline.

I've been considering having "Sonic '06" as a separate timeline, but when and where should it stem from? There are too many differences in its continuity compared to the official SegaSonic timeline.

As for AoStH, I don't really consider it an actual universe. For one thing, it's too goofy to be taken seriously, and its continuity is all over the place. A personal theory of mine is that the entire series is fictional; like maybe they were just stories and tall-tales made up by Sonic to make him look good and Robotnik look bad (which would also explain the series' surreal tone). Heck, the final episode of the series seems to support this theory, with the end revealing that the entire episode took place within a storybook entitled "The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog."

[Mike Arcade]

That makes sense, though I do wonder how Earth could have been split into 2 Planets in different Zones, let's just say Dinosaurs in Spacesuits did it for now.

 

Alright then, so somehow in Sega Sonic's Timeline if Planet Splitting or Alien Invasion Gene Bombs don't happen we get "Mobians", sure why not. Maybe some sort of apocalypse eventually and Sega Sonic's World Exists because of it, it's not too far fetched to think that.

 

If Blaze's World is Sonic's future then that just raises even MORE questions! At the same time though we COULD have it splinter off of Sega Sonic's Timeline somewhere early on as well, which complicates things even further, but whatever. If it is The Future let's just say it's REALLY far away like Megaman Legends is to Megaman Classic and leave it at that, considering how Blaze's world is apparently mainly Oceans that would make sense.

 

That depends, while 06 WAS suppose to be a stand alone title from the other games it could be argued that it did at one point happen due to Generations, you could splinter it off earlier in the Sega Sonic Timeline and/or have it splinter off in the middle of Sega Sonic's Timeline just for it to join back into the main timeline.

 

That does make sense, but several silly stuff happened in Archie Sonic as well earlier on. It's not too crazy to consider it both a fable in some timeline and it's own timeline as well, whatever floats you're boat I suppose. But that could be said the same for any of the other timelines as well.  

[LogiTeeka]

The ancient cataclysm that split the prehistoric Earth into two worlds (Mobius and Earth) was never fully addressed in either "Sonic X" or the Fleetway series. Instead, it just serves as a backstory to why there's two worlds similar to each other, but hidden within seprate dimensions by time and space.

The same thing goes for the SegaSonic universe. Some parts of it resemble our modern-day Earth (like Sation Square, Central City, ect.) while others are way more futuristic (like the Grand Metropolis and Monopole from "Sonic Heroes" "Sonic Riders" respectively). Judging by the map in "Shadow the Hedgehog" and the countries in "Unleashed", the SegaSonic is either a future Earth or an alternate Earth.

The biggest reason why I view the Sol Dimension as the future is due to Blaze's relation with Silver (who is from the future). They're both seen living together in Crisis City, and later on (after the timeline was reset), they both share the same enemy, Eggman Nega (who is revealed to be a descendant of the origonal Eggman). And after defeating Nega and the Ifrit in "Rivals 2", the next time we see Silver is in "Sonic Colors" DS, in which he describes his timeline as a "restored paradice". But due to altered events, it's unknown if Silver and Blaze still know each other.

Ugh. Just thinking about "Sonic 06's" timeline hurts my head. It's going to be harder than I thought.

Ian did say that the events depicted in the earlier Archie issues indeed happened, but not quite to the extent as they originally were. Much of the earlier stuff was retconed in later issues, and the whole silly nature was attributed to the fact that the Freedom Fighters were just kids during those earlier issues; as evidenced in issue #188 when Sonic mentions confronting the SSSSS Squad back when he was only 8-years-old. If anything, those earlier issues could easily be romanticized nostalgic memories of the Freedom Fighters' childhood days.

[RedAuthar]

Funny, this seems like the perfect time to bring up a little theory of mine.

What if I told you that most continuities in the Sonic series were possibly alternate timelines? It may sound like a stretch, but it could work.



 

Minus the Genesis wave ending all the other universes (not our control however) I like it.

 

 

P.S. The one listed "Adventures" isn't AoStH, rather it's the short-lived French comic "Sonic Adventures".

Upsetting that they didn't do more.  

[LogiTeeka]

If anyone has any questions about the thought process behind assigning continuities to certain multiverses, allow me to explain them...

I listed SegaSonic as the prime timeline not just because it served as the inspiration for the American canon, but because it takes place on Earth (the planet which "Mobius Prime" used to be). And since this universe is shown to exist in the comics ("Another time, another place"), what would that make the Archiverse? It's my theory that "Mobius Prime" is the primary universe for the American canon, while the other similar canons branch off from it. This includes SatAM, "Underground", the Cosmic Interstate and it's multiverse, and possibly the Troll/Golden Book universe (though it could be entirely fictional due to Sonic having a dream similar to this continuity in the 3rd issue of the original miniseries).

Which probably begs the question: why is Planet Freedom from the OVA listed there? Well, in issue #101, Chaos Knuckles tried traveling back in time to prevent the comet that lead to the creation of Angel Island from crashing. Planet Freedom was one of the many possible outcomes to occur in the main story. In addition, Overlanders (literally) exist in this world, as do Robotropolis, Swatbots (resembling Shadowbots), and Knuckles' cowboy hat (originally his grandfather's). And finally, an ancient disaster is mentioned to be the reason why the Land of Darkness exists (which would explain the post-apocalyptic New York City near Robotropolis).

As for the Fleetway multiverse, it is mentioned to exist, but it hasn't been fully explored yet. But since some continuities share the same "Kintobor Origin" story as StC does, it's possible that they either share the same universe, or they're variants of the Fleetway world. The same goes for the French comic "Sonic Adventures", which not only shares the same origin-story and designs as StC, but also a plot focused around the missing Grey Emerald. However, where Knuckles and Dr. Zachary are established as being the last Echidnas in StC (Tikal too, if you count StCO), "Sonic Adventues" shows that there are entire colonies of (surviving?) Echidnas living all over Mobius. Which could mean history happened differently in this timeline.

[Adamis]

MORE prototype designs here : http://pencilhill.tu...rom-ebay-bunnie