110 replies to this topic

[Shadow]

Proof that Ken Penders was what killed the SatAM fanbase. We will never have a proper comic adaption of the show, nor a reboot or continuation of any sorts beyond fan work.

 

[TheRedStranger]

 

You need to remember that games have to embellish for the sake of their own media. Look at Galen Marek in the story Force Unleashed the novelization and then the game which has to have a lot of elements of challange, power-ups, and so on for it to be considered a entertaining game . For example if you had a Satam game, you would see them mowing down more baddies than in the 28 min show. I agree that there is a true lack of tension in the new Sonic games and the franchise. But I still find this a false dillema, I think all the elements could be combined if they were put in the hands of a wise team of writers that could balance it all out. For example, Amy in WfM works. All you need is some smart retooling. Let's stop try to drawing lines in the sand, and work with what we have.

You are still thinking of how the games work, and not how it would translate into a show. Look at how mediocre Sonic X was. The characters were so bland and OP'd they had to make Chris Thorndyke to throw a bone for the plot. When it wasn't doing adaptions of the games it was so sluggish and cheap in the plot. It's alot like if you had the Batman comics be all gothic and dark as they usually are, but then Superman and the Justice League move to Gotham City on a permanent basis. The tension for Batman would be lost, and while some would like it, it wouldn't be as good.

That source... 

 

I did consult with DIC to see if there was a way to generate some enthusiasm for a feature film to be the "Third Season" of SatAm. I was given the name of a SEGA executive and had a most pleasant conversation. She had to go to a meeting, but said she would like to talk to me more about the idea.

The next day, I got a call from Ken Penders, who had been alerted by his contact in their office that I was interested in getting a Sonic movie going. I generously offered to include him in the effort and told him my strategy. Get SEGA to become invested in the idea by hiring us to interview their creative game designers, execs, etc and see if we could develop a story line that would fulfill the third season - and simultaneously give them creative ideas to develop new games. A win-win, situation.

Then, I called SEGA back, but I was shocked when the exec "lit" into me, telling me, "People pay US to develop Sonic product, we don't pay them!" Then she hung up on me. Obviously, Penders had related my strategy to them in a less-than-flattering way. Thanks for the knife, Ken.

So, I gave up. Later, I was informed by friendly fans that Penders had written in his message board or some such place that "Ben Hurst doesn't know how movies are made in Hollywood." (Hey Ken, read "Adventures in Screenwriting" by William Goldman and get some humility) Then he dropped hints that HE would be the writer for a big Sonic Feature Film. That was three years ago.

So, if you're reading between the lines, you can see I don't hold out much hope for seeing the third season of Satam - or being the one who does it if it happens. And that makes me sad. Because if it were to happen, those 13 episodes would sizzle.

But this I've learned: Never leave a series on a cliffhanger unless you have a contract for the next year. And be more careful in my choice of people to confide in.

May this find you all in good health and spirits - and who knows? Miracles could still happen with Satam. But I think the odds of hitting the California Lotto are slightly better.

Best to all,

Ben Hurst

 

 

 

 

No, I'm thinking the opposite, I'm thinking of the narrative problem wholistically. I think that modern Sonic material can work within the narrative, even if characters are somewhat powerful as well. You just have to find a balance for story. I think the gameplay as well as the story would improve drastically if the story was beefed up to be more dynamic and lore was designed to be more balanced (no Chaos control from rock-candy emeralds and such; rule-one of powers in writing; every action should have a price prportional to the gravity of the action). But doesn't mean I would axe all the concepts from the games in a procrustean-act of Satam-supremecy, I don't think would a wise choice.. And even still let's be honest...Sonic in Satam even got a little O.P from time to time, especially in season two. I say overall there needs to be improvment in the tension overall. In EoT I have Sonic fight some rather normative people that can tear away at his abiliies (one involves a bear-trap fracturing his leg).  I am saying that you are dealing with different medias and. There will always be more tension in a story than a videogame. You can restart a video game...but it comes off my mighty cheap when you restart a story. I think the narrative needs what you are suggesting in a sense, but I fear you could easily fall down the road of Darkness Induced apathy and exculding many of the fans.

 

 

Thank you. Now I can use this in my arsenal without fear of being accused for liable.

 

Wouldn't tomato tossing be redundant?  He has practically thrown himself in a vat of molding hienz.

 

 Look, Penders has dug his own grave, boys. His pride has goen before destruction and his huaghty spirit before a fall.... He has proven himself to be a bumbling, petty, egocentric ne'er-do-well who sabotoged the aspirations of a nice man (who has passed with an aspiration unmet do at least partially to him) in the pursuit of creative control and vanity. He now scrapes to get by and puts fingers in old legal wounds to draw blood to parch his desperate thrist. In short he is a has-been now, scavaging up the remenats of a mangled career. Nobody will want to hire him and all his potential baggage.  Do learn a lesson from this. Never trust a fool with your ideas, trust only the people you have judged to have good character. "By their fruits you shall know them..." and Penders is an old thornbush.

 

Do yourself a favor, if you care. Make something happen. Write Sonic the way you see it. It might be the small ripple in the pond someday that builds into a difference. If not, suck it up and stop crying over something you can't change. Life promises you bitter moments, why multiply them beyond necessity? Enjoy what you got, and change what you can.

[RedAuthar]

We can only wait and see. Just remember though we at but one piece of the Sonic fandom. Just because things are unfavorable here doesn't mean they are unfavorable elsewhere.

[Shadow]

Archie knows how to play the game. Put shitty sega art on the covers, keep as many SEGA characters around as possible, and they'll gobble up whatever shit story is thrown at them. Fans are rather stupid like that. Especially if they think its going to be about some new game. And that is what the comic has always been about from the beginning. Pimp out the next game SEGA is doing, and whatever they do after doesn't matter to them. Even the writers have been guilty of being dogs of SEGA. One point Ian wrote out a story of the SatAM Robotnik returning because he thought having two Robotnik's would confuse fans(despite the encyclopedia's printed at the time). Because that sure was a problem in Sonic Generations! Now they are trying to disguise the SatAM characters as Deviantart recolors to force them to exist with the game cast.

If I was in charge of things I'd show some piss and vinegar the comic has lacked for a great long time. Eggman was once Robo Robotnik who had conquered his own Mobius. Good, make him go back there and have an entire world for an empire and make strikes from afar through dimensional gates. Have an enemy who actually controls the world than a few shitty camps scattered about. Pull Eggman back from the spotlight, give him more mystery, and make him closer to the old Robotnik than some fucking manchild. Sure some people would bitch for it, but it would shake up the status quo. Get rid of Station Square, or just move it to another dimension. It doesn't belong on Mobius, and just make the Sonic cast visit earth world through ring portals to keep them in the loop. Orbot and Cubot need to fucking die. We already had Scratch and Grounder, we don't need these imposters.

[Uncle Ben]

[LogiTeeka]

Pull Eggman back from the spotlight, give him more mystery, and make him closer to the old Robotnik than some fucking manchild.

Eggman was always a manchild; even in the classic games.

Having him always sitting in shadow might make him more threatening, but it doesn't give him any more depth/character than the likes of say... Dr. Claw. If anything, it makes him less entertaining and more one-dimensional.

Get rid of Station Square, or just move it to another dimension. It doesn't belong on Mobius, and just make the Sonic cast visit earth world through ring portals to keep them in the loop.

Yeah, because the classic games never had any human cities before (except Spring Yard, Starlight, Chemical Plant, Casino Night, Gigalopolis, ect.)

Besides, Eggman needs more targets to invade than just Knothole Village.

Orbot and Cubot need to fucking die. We already had Scratch and Grounder, we don't need these impostors.

Oh yeah, because Snively was in no way a replacement of those two.

Also, I never saw the appeal of Scratch and Grounder that much. I was more fond of Sleet and Dingo actually. Heck, I'm probably one of the few that found Coconuts more enduring than the likes of the dumbots.

[RedAuthar]

 

Also, I never saw the appeal of Scratch and Grounder that much. I was more fond of Sleet and Dingo actually. Heck, I'm probably one of the few that found Coconuts more enduring than the likes of the dumbots.

 

 

Nope.  I'm in the same boat.  

[Shadow]

 

 

Pull Eggman back from the spotlight, give him more mystery, and make him closer to the old Robotnik than some fucking manchild.

Eggman was always a manchild; even in the classic games.

Having him always sitting in shadow might make him more threatening, but it doesn't give him any more depth/character than the likes of say... Dr. Claw. If anything, it makes him less entertaining and more one-dimensional.

And Dr Claw is considered a classical villain. That wasn't a very good example to use.

Quote

Get rid of Station Square, or just move it to another dimension. It doesn't belong on Mobius, and just make the Sonic cast visit earth world through ring portals to keep them in the loop.

Yeah, because the classic games never had any human cities before (except Spring Yard, Starlight, Chemical Plant, Casino Night, Gigalopolis, ect.)

Besides, Eggman needs more targets to invade than just Knothole Village.

 

And yet, they are all incompetent to defend themselves, so it may as well be Knothole/Mobotropolis. Also, while there were cities there were no people. They could have easily have been places Eggman made himself.

Quote

 

Orbot and Cubot need to fucking die. We already had Scratch and Grounder, we don't need these impostors.

Oh yeah, because Snively was in no way a replacement of those two.

Clearly you don't know Snively. He was more than a lackey. He was power hungry, he had ambitions, and much cunning. His downfall was always a lack of patience with planning things out. He had a mean streak in him that left unchecked, could have surpassed Robotnik as much more sadistic. Scratch and Grounder were two goofy robots who just did whatever Robotnik wanted.

[LogiTeeka]

And Dr Claw is considered a classical villain. That wasn't a very good example to use.

But that doesn't make him a better character, does it?

A villain can be threatening, but to make him interesting and memorable, you have to add character and personality. And as far as SatAM Robotnik went, he was no different than Black Doom in "Shadow the Hedgehog"; they both look menacing, but they lack any real character other than just being typical, one-note villains.

Also, while there were cities there were no people. They could have easily have been places Eggman made himself.

What? You were expecting to see NPCs in a 16-bit, side-scrolling action/platform game?

Also, Casinopolis and Speed Highway didn't have any people present in their stages, despite them both existing in Station Square. I suppose there aren't any humans there either?

Plus, there is a major difference between them. Places like Scrap Brain, Metropolis, Gimmick Mountain, and Sleeping Egg are clearly Eggman-built not just because they're industrial-themed levels, but they also have his symbol/image pasted throughout the place to clarify that they belong to him. I highly doubt he would paste the faces of his most hated adversaries in his Casino anyway.

Clearly you don't know Snively. He was more than a lackey. He was power hungry, he had ambitions, and much cunning. His downfall was always a lack of patience with planning things out. He had a mean streak in him that left unchecked, could have surpassed Robotnik as much more sadistic. Scratch and Grounder were two goofy robots who just did whatever Robotnik wanted.

Considering SatAM was intended to be a darker version of AoStH, it's obvious the creators replaced the minion role with Snively to fit the more serious tone of the show.

Heck, Snively and Cluck were clearly modeled after Grounder and Scratch respectively during the 1st season. Snively and Grounder both wore green, had long noses, and were always getting the short end of the stick; while Cluck and Scratch were both robotic chickens. They even fought each other several times to win Robotnik's favor.

[furrykef]

This is a fact some of you might not know. Ken Penders is responsible for a SatAM tv movie not being made.
Back in the mid 90's, Ben Hurst approached Sega of America with a script treatment to wrap up the show and transition into the current games. They liked it, and said they would arrange a meeting. However, Ben had asked Ken to come aboard as a partner in it. Ken immediately went behind his back and smeared Hurst's name to Sega, which afterwards they never wanted to have anything to do with the show or him ever again.

To be honest, that was probably never gonna happen with or without Ken. I also don't think "smeared his name" is an accurate characterization of what happened, though who knows. More on that in a sec.

 

Unfortunately I haven't seen any proof so I really can't condemn Penders for it.

Ben Hurst himself said it. That's the closest thing to proof we're ever gonna get. To quote the page:
 

I did consult with DIC to see if there was a way to generate some enthusiasm for a feature film to be the "Third Season" of SatAm. I was given the name of a SEGA executive and had a most pleasant conversation. She had to go to a meeting, but said she would like to talk to me more about the idea.

The next day, I got a call from Ken Penders, who had been alerted by his contact in their office that I was interested in getting a Sonic movie going. I generously offered to include him in the effort and told him my strategy. Get SEGA to become invested in the idea by hiring us to interview their creative game designers, execs, etc and see if we could develop a story line that would fulfill the third season - and simultaneously give them creative ideas to develop new games. A win-win, situation.

Then, I called SEGA back, but I was shocked when the exec "lit" into me, telling me, "People pay US to develop Sonic product, we don't pay them!" Then she hung up on me. Obviously, Penders had related my strategy to them in a less-than-flattering way. Thanks for the knife, Ken.

[Louis the Hedgehog]

*Reads through topic*

I just want to ask one thing. What was he going to merchandise? It doesn't look like anyone here seems to know.

[Prime]

*Reads through topic*

I just want to ask one thing. What was he going to merchandise? It doesn't look like anyone here seems to know.

 

So far he has actually produced one piece of merchandise. It's a embroidered patch:

 

 

As you can see from it's design, it's totally 100% original and doesn't rip anything off at all from the old Archie Sonic comics at all. I'm sure that Acorn isn't related to the comics at all, it's probably just the symbol that the Secret Service use. Totally Pender's own original idea (do not steal).

[Uncle Ben]

Seriously??
 

[RedAuthar]

I could say something but honestly I don't have to.

[Louis the Hedgehog]

Someone made a topic on his forum saying "YOU DON'T EVEN OWN THE ACORN NAME!" and some of the people there are saying neither does SEGA and therefore it is okay.

 

Is there any logic or truth to it?

[Uncle Ben]

I dont think anyone really owns it, maybe DiC or Archie but i dunno

[furrykef]

The main thing tying the patch to the Sonic universe is the fact Ken Penders made it. If this weren't known, it would be more difficult to definitively correlate it with Archie Sonic or indeed any Sonic. (I'm guessing that such a patch or emblem and the phrase "strategic Acorn ops" never existed in the stories; correct me if I'm wrong.)

I would guess that only trademark law, not copyright law, would be involved here, and Archie and Sega probably don't have a trademark that this would infringe upon. They probably have a trademark on the name Sally Acorn, but not on Royal Secret Service, Strategic Acorn Ops, or the image of an acorn (with or without a sword).

Supposing all this is true, Ken really does have a free pass on making this patch.

[ILOVEVHS]

For all we know, it could be a tie-in to the Dilbert cartoon.

[MikeMurdock]

Secret acorn ops ey?

 

sounds like a group from that dreamworks movie about the squirrels

 

but yeah  i remember seeing this on DA a long time ago and someone was gonna make there own since he didn't like the design of the patch

[DLTN]

(reads through topic...) I'm going to respond to the points that interest me...
Penders: He's a douche... plain and simple.
Sega Characters too powerfull to be in SatAM?: SatAM is an alternate continuity thankfully and this can be fixed by simply rewriting characters backstories. Amy could just be a new recruit to the FFs, Shadow could just be a clone of Sonic born of Robotnik moving into Bio weapons over Robotics, Chaos a very screwed up super soldier gone wrong (as the Fleetway comic did it if I recall.) Nothing wrong with nerfing their abilities until a time comes to pull out the stops.
Satam/Archie game? I have commented on this on their own topics long ago... But tastes change so for Archie, a fighting game by Atlus/Arc System Works with a good story mode to go with the fighting mechanics (they did it with Persona 4 after all) or an RPG as you guys mentioned. With SatAM though, an action adventure game where you play as Sonic and fight off Robotniks plans in a style similar to DMC/God Of War but with features that use Sonic's speed used in a way that Metal Gear Rising uses the Ninja Run.