110 replies to this topic

[LogiTeeka]

But if that was the case, all we'd have left would be the games. And judging by the overall reception of recent titles, that might leave many fans upset.

[RedAuthar]

Okay, I get that the comic isn't going the way many of would like, but honestly that is what made it good. Yeah it never was SatAM, but it never wanted to be. The fans are who wanted it to be, but by that time it had already taken on a form of its own.

But just because it isn't SatAM does that make it bad? Hardly. Honestly if SatAM had continued on, I'm sure not everyone would have liked the direction it would go, and many fans would be just as upset as they are now.

Penders may have ruined the movie, but nobody can promise the movie to have been a success.
Also note that while Might Guy approves the message, Uncle Ben did not.

[Uncle Ben]

i did... i just came across that as i was reading that

[TheRedStranger]

 

This is a fact some of you might not know. Ken Penders is responsible for a SatAM tv movie not being made.

Back in the mid 90's, Ben Hurst approached Sega of America with a script treatment to wrap up the show and transition into the current games. They liked it, and said they would arrange a meeting. However, Ben had asked Ken to come aboard as a partner in it. Ken immediately went behind his back and smeared Hurst's name to Sega, which afterwards they never wanted to have anything to do with the show or him ever again.

 

Yeah, I heard about that, but I thought it was after 2000 that it happened. Ben kept fighting the good fight for the show until his death; I just hope that eventually Sega either acknowledges SatAM or lets someone run with it, that is if nothing becomes of Sea3on.

 

 

Something will become of Sea3on. You'll see.

 

As for Penders. I'd like a soild source on that, just to be free of generating liabel and thus bringing more respect and persuasion to our position on the man.  It sounds like a Penders move, for sure. But I still want to stick to my principles of "innocent untill proven guilty."

[Shadow]

Haven't you noticed Archie for the last couple years has been really pushing for stories showcasing the SEGA cast alot more? It's because more fans like them over the SatAM cast. Nobody cares about them in the comics except for us older fans who are a minority of the readership. If they were all killed off and transitioned into a full fledged game canon world many would be glad for it. Many consider the SatAM elements to hinder the comic by adding too much drama where they would rather have fun lighthearted adventures. This is what alot of the recent games have been going for as well. The two elements of the game and show never meshed well together, and I think time has only proven that their can only be one.

[Uncle Ben]

Haven't you noticed Archie for the last couple years has been really pushing for stories showcasing the SEGA cast alot more? It's because more fans like them over the SatAM cast. Nobody cares about them in the comics except for us older fans who are a minority of the readership. If they were all killed off and transitioned into a full fledged game canon world many would be glad for it. Many consider the SatAM elements to hinder the comic by adding too much drama where they would rather have fun lighthearted adventures. This is what alot of the recent games have been going for as well. The two elements of the game and show never meshed well together, and I think time has only proven that their can only be one.

 

Or the fact the inncoptence of the writers havent found a way to combine both correctly

[TheRedStranger]

No...Time has proven that people can't pull off proper tone in their writing. Satam did well with both the lighthearted and the more dramatic elements. But everytime Sega tried to pull it off it came off as cheap to many. I think also the Satam fans are more prevalent than you think and it's a developing fan-base ever since the rise of the internet. All the kids I know like Satam when I show it to them and pals like my friend Logan like it as well.

 

 Look at shows like Avatar. It was lighthearted. It was fun. It was very popular. But it dealt with some serious stuff. So does Doctor Who. It deals with genocide and tops it off with a side of fish-fingers and custard. You see, it's a false dillema. You need both elements to make something work.

 

And you're doging my request for a source for your accusation... :/ 

[Shadow]

Your overlooking the difference between them is night and day. Even the looks of the tone of their looks are different. The characters in SatAM were a minority of leftover civilians who fought with tactics, and Metal Gear type strategies. Everyone in the games however are goddamn superheroes. Even Cream can smash apart robots with her fucking ears. How can these two types co-exist when they make everyone from SatAM look relatively useless in comparison. These are game characters who were made to compete with Sonic. Nobody from SatAM ever could or even tried. This is why I have always been against the use of these game characters for stories. They are too overpowered, and their freakish abilities overshadows all the shit those like Sally have gone through. When Amy can just swing her hammer and mow down an army, where Sally has to sneak around them shows a prime example of why these two characters cant co-exist.

[RedAuthar]

I have to agree there....actually probably why I enjoy the comic so much is that they ARE like Super Heroes (which is a term owned by DC and Marvel and not up for free grabs by the way, who knew?).  

 

The SatAM cast do feel very weak compared to the SEGA Characters (Save for Bunnie....I mean for a while all Bunnie had to do is fly and punch things).  The Comic has gone from a "Looney Tunes meets Metal Gear" style to a "Disney Meets Dragon Ball Z" style.  

[Shadow]

I have to agree there....actually probably why I enjoy the comic so much is that they ARE like Super Heroes (which is a term owned by DC and Marvel and not up for free grabs by the way, who knew?).  

 

The SatAM cast do feel very weak compared to the SEGA Characters (Save for Bunnie....I mean for a while all Bunnie had to do is fly and punch things).  The Comic has gone from a "Looney Tunes meets Metal Gear" style to a "Disney Meets Dragon Ball Z" style.  

But your missing the point. If everyone was as strong as Sonic was in SatAM, the tone would have been alot different. Robotnik wouldn't really be a threat as he was, and more of a minor annoyance. In the comic he went from being this big bad guy to everyone's punching bag. The world Archie tried to make with the Sega cast doesn't work. This is why they tried to separate them at the start by just sending them to some other dimension and do the game tie in. But would you ever consider the Sonic games to have a good story to them? If the SatAM cast were that strong in the show it would have been over in one episode of them blowing up Robotropolis and throwing Robotnik in prison.

[RedAuthar]

Okay, for the sake of Argument I'll ignore the times where Dulcy FREEZES ROBOTNIK and the few times THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS JUST WALK OUT.  

 

 

Yes and no.  Yes the tone would be different, but if they were going to have a team of Super Powered heroes, the Villain would obviously be made to match them.  

 

Even in Archie Sonic, Robotnik isn't always a punching bag.  He's had his actually very threatening and dangerous moments.  Heck he KILLED Sally before Sonic saved her during the first Genesis Wave only to cause havoc with her across Mobius.  He put Antoine in a Coma.  He caused Havoc across quite a few nations while seeking out Snively when he escaped.  He's goofy yes, but by no means has he become a useless punching bad. 

[Shadow]

Your overlooking all the other times he's been let go by the FF after having his machines blow up in his face. Like when not once, but twice did Sally let him go after being defeated by Sonic. And as for those little victories of his, notice none of them were against the SEGA cast? They are all too strong to hurt. Remember when Eggman planted a fake emerald to blow up in Rouge's face and put her in a coma? I don't.

[RedAuthar]

Of Course because Knuckles never died in the comics, 90% of the Cast wasn't captured and put in the EggGrapes only to be saved by NICOLE who is a SatAM Cast Character, Tails was never Mind Controlled/Replaced by Mammoth Mongol, Nack hasn't been the butt of all the jokes, Sonic AND Knuckles were never Robotized, etc.

 

The SEGA Characters get victimized too.  

Now don't misunderstand me,  I agree that the SEGA cast seem OPed.  But I haven't seen anything in the comics that states SEGA or Archie hate/wanna get rid of/or wish to ruin the SatAM cast. 

[LogiTeeka]

While I can spot the difference between casts in the old continuity, the new one seems to be trying to fill up that gap; what with Rotor having super-strength/battle-armor and Antoine having enhanced sword-wielding abilities. If it worked for them, who knows what incredible skills/attributes Sally and Bunnie will have in upcoming issues?

[Shadow]

But unless Eggman himself becomes superhuman, the balance is still off. They did give him a slight edge at one point with the robotisizing powers and mechanical body. When he was Robo Robotnik he was nigh-unstoppable in a fight. That is what they should have stayed with. Even if they make the SatAM cast all super powered it still takes away alot of dramatic effect. In cape comics its usually super powered characters fighting others who can match their strength in some way. Good for games, but not a long drawn out comic where their primary enemy is a fat scientist who can barely defend himself with his machines. The shift in tone is obvious the more they focus on exemplifying the SEGA cast. Remember when Amy took out an entire army by herself? That was such bullshit, but if it can be done in the games it can be done in the comic.

The only way around this is if they got really dark and made Eggman start using chemical weapons and biological agents against them, but they're not going to do that in a childrens comic. At least it showed early in the comics and in the show that the only heavy hitter character they had was Bunnie, and even she was far from invincible.

[TheRedStranger]

You need to remember that games have to embellish for the sake of their own media. Look at Galen Marek in the story Force Unleashed the novelization and then the game which has to have a lot of elements of challange, power-ups, and so on for it to be considered a entertaining game . For example if you had a Satam game, you would see them mowing down more baddies than in the 28 min show. I agree that there is a true lack of tension in the new Sonic games and the franchise. But I still find this a false dillema, I think all the elements could be combined if they were put in the hands of a wise team of writers that could balance it all out. For example, Amy in WfM works. All you need is some smart retooling. Let's stop try to drawing lines in the sand, and work with what we have.

 

 That source... 

[Shadow]

You need to remember that games have to embellish for the sake of their own media. Look at Galen Marek in the story Force Unleashed the novelization and then the game which has to have a lot of elements of challange, power-ups, and so on for it to be considered a entertaining game . For example if you had a Satam game, you would see them mowing down more baddies than in the 28 min show. I agree that there is a true lack of tension in the new Sonic games and the franchise. But I still find this a false dillema, I think all the elements could be combined if they were put in the hands of a wise team of writers that could balance it all out. For example, Amy in WfM works. All you need is some smart retooling. Let's stop try to drawing lines in the sand, and work with what we have.

You are still thinking of how the games work, and not how it would translate into a show. Look at how mediocre Sonic X was. The characters were so bland and OP'd they had to make Chris Thorndyke to throw a bone for the plot. When it wasn't doing adaptions of the games it was so sluggish and cheap in the plot. It's alot like if you had the Batman comics be all gothic and dark as they usually are, but then Superman and the Justice League move to Gotham City on a permanent basis. The tension for Batman would be lost, and while some would like it, it wouldn't be as good.

That source... 

 

I did consult with DIC to see if there was a way to generate some enthusiasm for a feature film to be the "Third Season" of SatAm. I was given the name of a SEGA executive and had a most pleasant conversation. She had to go to a meeting, but said she would like to talk to me more about the idea.

The next day, I got a call from Ken Penders, who had been alerted by his contact in their office that I was interested in getting a Sonic movie going. I generously offered to include him in the effort and told him my strategy. Get SEGA to become invested in the idea by hiring us to interview their creative game designers, execs, etc and see if we could develop a story line that would fulfill the third season - and simultaneously give them creative ideas to develop new games. A win-win, situation.

Then, I called SEGA back, but I was shocked when the exec "lit" into me, telling me, "People pay US to develop Sonic product, we don't pay them!" Then she hung up on me. Obviously, Penders had related my strategy to them in a less-than-flattering way. Thanks for the knife, Ken.

So, I gave up. Later, I was informed by friendly fans that Penders had written in his message board or some such place that "Ben Hurst doesn't know how movies are made in Hollywood." (Hey Ken, read "Adventures in Screenwriting" by William Goldman and get some humility) Then he dropped hints that HE would be the writer for a big Sonic Feature Film. That was three years ago.

So, if you're reading between the lines, you can see I don't hold out much hope for seeing the third season of Satam - or being the one who does it if it happens. And that makes me sad. Because if it were to happen, those 13 episodes would sizzle.

But this I've learned: Never leave a series on a cliffhanger unless you have a contract for the next year. And be more careful in my choice of people to confide in.

May this find you all in good health and spirits - and who knows? Miracles could still happen with Satam. But I think the odds of hitting the California Lotto are slightly better.

Best to all,

Ben Hurst

[Uncle Ben]

Seeing that makes me sad the Ben Hurst is gone

[RedAuthar]

All in favor of throwing tomatoes at Penders say aye.

[ILOVEVHS]

Nay.

I say we throw bricks.