40 replies to this topic

[jtreese]

So with the Archie Sonic Series going through changes, Archie Sonic purists aren't happy. Weather that be making the comic more like the games, the redesigns, or the fact that many characters we all grew to love are gone. I can understand both sides of the situation. Some of these changes might not please people, including me, but at the same time, we can't really do anything about it. All I ask is one thing: Don't Blame Ian Flynn!This man is not the reasons for these problems. He is just trying to do his job and a lot of people are blaming him for it. The main reasons for these changes are the Penders vs. Archie Lawsuit and SEGA mandates.

 

So, what do you not like about these changes? Why?

[RedAuthar]

That most are do to the legal debate and not to please fans. I feel the fans lost out more than anyone in the debate because Archie Comics didn't wanna fight/pay.

[Prince ByTor]

That most are do to the legal debate and not to please fans. I feel the fans lost out more than anyone in the debate because Archie Comics didn't wanna fight/pay.

 

I completely agree, but when has Sega really paid attention to the fans instead of their revenue stream?

[Uncle Ben]

 

That most are do to the legal debate and not to please fans. I feel the fans lost out more than anyone in the debate because Archie Comics didn't wanna fight/pay.

 

I completely agree, but when has Sega really paid attention to the fans instead of their revenue stream?

 

 

Sonic 4 per say.

 

I'm not 100% "Blaming Ian Flynn." He gets about 33% of it. the other 66% is the Editors/Archie/Penders Lawsuit and SEGA

[jtreese]

One thing I'll Miss are some of Ken Pender's characters. Mostly Julie Su.

[Prince ByTor]

While I don't really "blame" Ian Flynn for all of the changes, I think at some of the time his direction is very poor in my opinion. It would really clear it up if Sega or Archie would just let the fans know what all of their "edicts" are, however, if all the fanbase knew these restrictions people might stop reading all together.

 

Truthfully, I can't say I'll miss much since the characters I like are still in the comic and Mobius, (or whatever they're calling now), has been screwed up for quite some time now. I dunno, perhaps I can say I will miss its uniqueness of the comic in comparison to the rest of cesspit that is Sega's version of Sonic, and of course a few of the characters.

 

I think I said it before, I have very low hopes for the comic, but I am taking note, and if it gets better I might actually start buying it.

[Robthe1st]

_{Hey guys, I've been talking with Ian Flynn since an week ago.. and here's the conversation we had:} 

 

<sub>Robthe1st:
Hi,

The name is Grant, and I use to read the Sonic Archie Comics back then.. and I heard rumors about the changes you're doing... and I know you have a lot of messages here or not... And I'm sure some people ask you same questions... like when will Julie-SU, Hershey, or the others made from Ken Penders will return. And I just heard rumors that Ken Penders said it's okay if your company can use one of his characters... what he sad: "What I can say is that Archie has the ability to go forward with these characters if they so choose"... I don't know if he means it.. but do you trust him on that?

And if Julie-Su won't appear in the Archie Comics no more, who will replace Knuckles girlfriend? If no, then will she ever return to the comics? Just asking.


Take care in the meantime,

Grant (a.k.a. Robthe1st)</sub>

 

 

 

<sub>Ian Flynn:
Grant,

I've been asked not to comment on what can and can't be used in the future of the comic.

Mr. Penders's statement is misleading. By the same token, you can walk into any restaurant and eat whatever you want. The unspoken implication is you have to pay. Additionally, Mr. Penders has publicly stated he'd want editorial control over the material he created.

Ian</sub>
 

 

 

<sub>Robthe1st:
Yeah, I understand, it's your rules. I guess I'll had to see which character is coming back or not in the upcoming comics.

And yea, I have a feeling that Ken Penders statement was somewhat misguided. I feel bad and like everybody else that Ken try to almost ruin the Sonic Archie Comics. Well, I may not known him, is he always selfish do you?

BTW, if you ask Ken or anyone else for permission for those characters, how much will it cost you if you use them for your comics or television series? Just asking.

Late,

Grant (Robthe1st)</sub>

 

 

_{Ian Flynn:}

_{I don't know what his licensing fee is, nor is it my decision. It's all out of my hands.}

 

 

 

 

 

_{So there you have it, he not allowed to tell me if some of the characters made from Ken is coming back or not. But, he said that Ken publicly stated he'd want editorial control of his characters... So, in my view I don't think they'll be coming back... or maybe they will.. I don't know.}

 

 


 

[Prince ByTor]

@robthe1st: Thanks for the info.

That really sucks; it looks like Ken Penders did more damage than we thought. While I've always felt bad that the Freedom Fighters have flat-out been ignored by Sega, it's far worse how basically Penders' characters are more or less orphans now.

I only wonder why Flynn is not allowed to use "Mobius" anymore; it pre-dated Penders involvement with the comic and was even used, I believe, in Sonic Spinball; there must be something else going on for that one.

 

I also wonder if FUS/Sea3on will have any issues if they decide to use one of Penders' characters?

[Robthe1st]

@robthe1st: Thanks for the info.

That really sucks; it looks like Ken Penders did more damage than we thought. While I've always felt bad that the Freedom Fighters have flat-out been ignored by Sega, it's far worse how basically Penders' characters are more or less orphans now.

I only wonder why Flynn is not allowed to use "Mobius" anymore; it pre-dated Penders involvement with the comic and was even used, I believe, in Sonic Spinball; there must be something else going on for that one.

 

I also wonder if FUS/Sea3on will have any issues if they decide to use one of Penders' characters?

 

Thanks,

 

And guys, just to fair, if you don't like the new Comics, just don't read them. Or you can still read them just to support the comics.. it's a free country!

 

And I also don't blame Ian Flynn, he's just doing this job. And yea Ken, and Archie did almost ruin the comics by suing each other. And besides, the Sega Sonic fans support the new characters design and the new story of the comics. Check out this poll:  http://www.tssznews....-gone-for-good/

 

I guess we (The SatAM fans) are the minority, right? And whatever Archie and Ian are doing, they just did this for Sega and their fans today. And they'll always do that. So, let's just get used to it I guess. 

[Prince ByTor]

 

@robthe1st: Thanks for the info.

That really sucks; it looks like Ken Penders did more damage than we thought. While I've always felt bad that the Freedom Fighters have flat-out been ignored by Sega, it's far worse how basically Penders' characters are more or less orphans now.

I only wonder why Flynn is not allowed to use "Mobius" anymore; it pre-dated Penders involvement with the comic and was even used, I believe, in Sonic Spinball; there must be something else going on for that one.

 

I also wonder if FUS/Sea3on will have any issues if they decide to use one of Penders' characters?

 

Thanks,

 

And guys, just to fair, if you don't like the new Comics, just don't read them. Or you can still read them just to support the comics.. it's a free country!

 

And I also don't blame Ian Flynn, he's just doing this job. And yea Ken, and Archie did almost ruin the comics by suing each other. And besides, the Sega Sonic fans support the new characters design and the new story of the comics. Check out this poll:  http://www.tssznews....-gone-for-good/

 

I guess we (The SatAM fans) are the minority, right? And whatever Archie and Ian are doing, they just did this for Sega and their fans today. And they'll always do that. So, let's just get used to it I guess. 

 

 

Nothing much has changed; us fans of the Sega of America continuity fans have become accustomed to taking it in the shorts from Sega. The only reason that I have any interest in the comic whatsoever is that the Freedom Fighters still exist there officially, at least for now. I'm actually surprised that they are still in the comic with how Sega has been; like I said, if I like what's going on I might start buying them instead of reading them in the store or online.

For the last 15-18 years I've been of the "F--- Sega" attitude; they have not really done anything for me to part with my money; I mean how hard would it be to put out an Archieverse game/merchandise? You're right, we just have to get used to the idea that Sega will never change; they'll keep on putting out bland, crappy games and other media that the newer generation of fans will eat up and love in their sophomoric way, blind to the fact that a fool and his money goes separate ways.

[LogiTeeka]

There's nothing wrong with people buying their stuff as long as they're enjoying it, right? I mean, this is a kids franchise, and kids aren't gonna be kids forever. So they might as well target the younger crowds.

The way I see it, the games are there to attract the newer/younger demographic, while the comics serve to appease the older fans while still appealing to newer readers.

[Prince ByTor]

There's nothing wrong with people buying their stuff as long as they're enjoying it, right? I mean, this is a kids franchise, and kids aren't gonna be kids forever. So they might as well target the younger crowds.

The way I see it, the games are there to attract the newer/younger demographic, while the comics serve to appease the older fans while still appealing to newer readers.

 

You're right, there is nothing wrong with a fool parting with his money: it's called capitalism. If someone wants to play with substandard merchandise, I have no problem with that. 

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't have to be this way. Look at how Nintendo has handled the Mario franchise: I see everyone from children barely able to pick up the controller to 40-50 somethings playing their games. Why is then that us older Sonic fans have to just "grow up?"

[LogiTeeka]

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't have to be this way. Look at how Nintendo has handled the Mario franchise: I see everyone from children barely able to pick up the controller to 40-50 somethings playing their games. Why is then that us older Sonic fans have to just "grow up?"

The thing is, Mario hardly has any substance. The series hardly does anything outlandish (most of the time) and remains relatively the same, despite obvious improvements in gameplay and quality. Because of simplicity, everyone knows what a Mario game is before they even play it; thus it's easier for people of different demographics to adapt to.

Sonic, on the other hand, is a series targeted in a different direction. What made Sonic so popular in the first place was the fact that he did stuff Mario would never do, which could explain his iconic rebellious attitude. Where Mario was about taking it slow and easy, Sonic was known to be fast and in-your-face quick. And where Mario is predictable and beyond cliched, Sonic is always trying something new and exciting; so most people can't get used to it. So basically, he's Mario's polar opposite.

With that in mind, there's no why he can appeal to an audience nearly as wide as Mario's reputation.

[E122Psi]

I don't blame Flynn's team for the changes. I blame them for the lackluster execution of said changes. Mecha Sally's arc was just on a loop, most of the Penders characters are forgettable and I didn't like most of the designs they were using at that point anyway. However they still set about solving these things in a manner that actually managed to make it worse, and in cases such as some proto redesigns, actually decided to forgo methods that could actually make it better.

[Prince ByTor]

 

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't have to be this way. Look at how Nintendo has handled the Mario franchise: I see everyone from children barely able to pick up the controller to 40-50 somethings playing their games. Why is then that us older Sonic fans have to just "grow up?"

The thing is, Mario hardly has any substance. The series hardly does anything outlandish (most of the time) and remains relatively the same, despite obvious improvements in gameplay and quality. Because of simplicity, everyone knows what a Mario game is before they even play it; thus it's easier for people of different demographics to adapt to.

Sonic, on the other hand, is a series targeted in a different direction. What made Sonic so popular in the first place was the fact that he did stuff Mario would never do, which could explain his iconic rebellious attitude. Where Mario was about taking it slow and easy, Sonic was known to be fast and in-your-face quick. And where Mario is predictable and beyond cliched, Sonic is always trying something new and exciting; so most people can't get used to it. So basically, he's Mario's polar opposite.

With that in mind, there's no why he can appeal to an audience nearly as wide as Mario's reputation.

 

 

It doesn't really matter how Nintendo did it, but that it can be done and Sega just sacrificing older gamers for new ones because it's "a kid's game" isn't an excuse; I and many others do know how Sonic games are supposed to be played and could sit down and immediately play any of the new ones just like any Mario games of the same period. The fact of the matter is they've been making really bad games with a few exceptions for well over a decade now, "kid's games" or not.

The main problem that I see with Sega's view of the Sonic franchise is that they are making games for a character originally designed for the western market, but forgetting that they might actually want to, I dunno, make it for the western audience. Sonic has never been big in Japan and yet they keep foolishly treating the franchise if it's made for that market, which equates to making a game for a market that really doesn't want it at the expense of the ones that do.

[furrykef]

I only wonder why Flynn is not allowed to use "Mobius" anymore; it pre-dated Penders involvement with the comic and was even used, I believe, in Sonic Spinball; there must be something else going on for that one.

Probably because all the other Sonic continuities take place on Earth or some form thereof, so calling it Mobius makes the Archie continuity stick out like a sore thumb these days.

Relevant:


(From Sonic #124, which was the June 2003 issue)

[Louis the Hedgehog]

I don't blame Ian Flynn completely, but I'm not about to let him off the hook yet.

 

I know things are bad but why do they have to stay that way? Who is to say things won't change for the better later? Sure you or I cannot do much, but we all together could create a snowballing effect. They only think in money, right? If enough of an uproar is made (and it nearly is right now) the publishers would be worried about revenues and rethink their strategy.

 

Also what will happen when Penders loses his lawsuit with SEGA and EA?

[Captain Sorzo]

Probably because all the other Sonic continuities take place on Earth or some form thereof, so calling it Mobius makes the Archie continuity stick out like a sore thumb these days.

 

Archie's been the only active continuity other than the games for quite some time now, and it already is quite distinct from the game continuity, given that so many of the characters, many of them major, are not in the games. As long as characters like the Freedom Fighters are in the comic, it will never mesh with the game continuity. Getting rid of Mobius therefore doesn't accomplish much in that regard. It does, however, potentially alienate older fans who grew up with the term. It was a fun bit of nostalgia that wasn't doing any harm, and its loss in official media feels like one of the final death knells of the old Western canon.

[TheRedStranger]

 

Probably because all the other Sonic continuities take place on Earth or some form thereof, so calling it Mobius makes the Archie continuity stick out like a sore thumb these days.

 

Archie's been the only active continuity other than the games for quite some time now, and it already is quite distinct from the game continuity, given that so many of the characters, many of them major, are not in the games. As long as characters like the Freedom Fighters are in the comic, it will never mesh with the game continuity. Getting rid of Mobius therefore doesn't accomplish much in that regard. It does, however, potentially alienate older fans who grew up with the term. It was a fun bit of nostalgia that wasn't doing any harm, and its loss in official media feels like one of the final death knells of the old Western canon.

 

 

No the death knell to Sega. It's people like Bytor, the classic fans, that made Sonic as popular as he is today and now SEGA is spitting on their childhood icons with pointless revisionism. Let's face it. Sonic's fanbase is mostly adult know, little kids are too busy playing COD and GTA because their parents don't know nor care any better. Sonic is for the teens, twentysomethings, and older. SEGA was trying to apeall to the crowd years ago anyways. It's our wallets that keep their hearts beating, they better respect that fact.

[Captain Sorzo]

No the death knell to Sega. It's people like Bytor, the classic fans, that made Sonic as popular as he is today and now SEGA is spitting on their childhood icons with pointless revisionism. Let's face it. Sonic's fanbase is mostly adult know, little kids are too busy playing COD and GTA because their parents don't know nor care any better. Sonic is for the teens, twentysomethings, and older. SEGA was trying to apeall to the crowd years ago anyways. It's our wallets that keep their hearts beating, they better respect that fact.

 

While the active Sonic fanbase across the Internet perhaps skews toward older demographics, especially on sites like this, I'm fairly sure that the bulk of sales for both the comics and games are from children. People like you and I are part of a niche group, one that, from a financial standpoint, is rather insignificant. Sonic's always been aimed primarily at kids. We're just kids that grew up and gradually found ourselves outside the target demographic.

 

It's frustrating, and I feel Sega has increasingly lost sight of making the series appeal to a wider age range as it did in the early 90s, but as long as Sonic remains popular among children our own support honestly means little.

 

That said, I imagine that older fans make up a greater proportion of the comic's audience than in the case of the games, so it's possible that backlash from the recent series of events will nonetheless have an appreciable effect on sales.