42 replies to this topic

[Prince ByTor]

Whoa, I love that variant cover! Paying homage to the original concepts. And main one isn't that bad either.

[Louis the Hedgehog]

Let's not forget what caused these design changes in the first place.

[LogiTeeka]

Let's not forget what caused these design changes in the first place.

The same thing which happened to Sonic and the rest back in 1998?

[jtreese]

 

Let's not forget what caused these design changes in the first place.

The same thing which happened to Sonic and the rest back in 1998?

 

Exactly! Let's not forget Amy's redesign, because nobody complained about that...

[Uncle Ben]

 

 

Let's not forget what caused these design changes in the first place.

The same thing which happened to Sonic and the rest back in 1998?

 

Exactly! Let's not forget Amy's redesign, because nobody complained about that...

 

 

i always complain about amy in general...

[Louis the Hedgehog]

 

 

 

Let's not forget what caused these design changes in the first place.

The same thing which happened to Sonic and the rest back in 1998?

 

Exactly! Let's not forget Amy's redesign, because nobody complained about that...

 

 

i always complain about amy in general...

 

No, in THIS case the redesigns are the result of how much these characters suffered and/or the botched writing. And most designs are saying these new designs are lackluster at bast. And the fans are now even MORE divided than ever before.

 

These characters deserve better and it's just not worth all of this. To me these new looks are just scars.

[LogiTeeka]

No, in THIS case the redesigns are the result of how much these characters suffered and/or the botched writing. And most designs are saying these new designs are lackluster at bast. And the fans are now even MORE divided than ever before.
 
These characters deserve better and it's just not worth all of this. To me these new looks are just scars.

In other words, the same thing which happened to Sonic and the rest back in 1998.

[FormerlyAKnotholeResident]

 

 

 

 

Let's not forget what caused these design changes in the first place.

The same thing which happened to Sonic and the rest back in 1998?

 

Exactly! Let's not forget Amy's redesign, because nobody complained about that...

 

 

i always complain about amy in general...

 

No, in THIS case the redesigns are the result of how much these characters suffered and/or the botched writing. And most designs are saying these new designs are lackluster at bast. And the fans are now even MORE divided than ever before.

 

These characters deserve better and it's just not worth all of this. To me these new looks are just scars.

 

I agree.  Converting the freedom fighters to this bland, generic, cookie cutter Sega style is what Ive always feared.  I don't understand how for decades, Sega never had an issue with the SatAM issue since they only focused on the games..  So why force these horrible remodels on a piece of media that never interfered with the games?  Now that its actually happened, there really is nothing left of SatAM anymore.  The writing is embarrassing and the redesigns lack substance.  Sad to say that the comics were only thing that remained untouched, but in recent years, its just degenerated into a convoluted mess full of plots and pointless storyarcs used as excuses to make these unnecessary changes.  It just shows lack of quality or effort cause now the SatAM cast blends in with the rest of SegaSonic characters.  Same anatomy, and same facial structure.  I cant even tell the difference between Tails or Bunnie anymore cause her signature features aren't visible, especially since the snouts are just circles instead of some protrusion.  In other words, we have clones with swapped out details to match their species.  Its like the dignity and everything these characters used to represent has been visually bastardized.  What made them special, is how each character had distinguished attributes to them.  Now, theyre just another face in the crowd that's no different than Generic Background Character #565     

[LogiTeeka]

The intention is to attract newer fans who are only familiar with the games, since it's the primary media these days. Having characters that don't match the look of the series' primary style is kinda alienating for some people. It's like pairing Bambi (a realistically-drawn character) with Bugs Bunny or Popeye the Sailor (very cartoony-looking characters). It just doesn't mesh.

This problem was especially apparent in SatAM, due to the presence of a cartoony, blue hedgehog with a cast of realistic-looking anthropomorphic characters. Had they redesigned Sonic to match the tone of the series, it wouldn't be that much of a problem. But because of his iconic likeness and mandates, they didn't dare to alter it. The only episode in the series that meshed well with his style was the pilot episode, due to the cartoonier designs, brighter colors, and more whimsical tone.

Since the Sonic series has already found a unique style to call its own, it makes sense to bring any ongoing series closer in order to attract the general target audience. And while the redesigns aren't perfect (I don't like Antoine's re-altered redesign), they're still the same characters we grew to enjoy. Had Sega wanted Archie to fallow their games directly by the book, they would've dropped the SatAM elements completely. But instead, they allowed them to continue as long as the meshed with their current direction for the series. In other words, you could view it as a second chance.

[Prime]

No, in THIS case the redesigns are the result of how much these characters suffered and/or the botched writing. And most designs are saying these new designs are lackluster at bast. And the fans are now even MORE divided than ever before.

 

These characters deserve better and it's just not worth all of this. To me these new looks are just scars.

Uh-huh.... So are we just gonna ignore all the redesigns Sally had over the years before this recent change? What about Bunnie too? And Rotor? Because surely all those guys remained exactly the same to their SatAM designs for 20 years, especially Rotor! People getting all worked up over his redesign when his comic counterpart looked nothing like the bulk of his SatAM appearances.

 

And I call bullshit to your claim that "the fans are more divided than ever before" Most people I've spoken to either think the designs are okay, or it doesn't really bother them, only a few people I know don't think too much of the redesigns. Or are you just hanging around the crowd of people who are butt hurt about all this?

 

 

 

 

I don't understand how for decades, Sega never had an issue with the SatAM issue since they only focused on the games..  So why force these horrible remodels on a piece of media that never interfered with the games?  Now that its actually happened, there really is nothing left of SatAM anymore.  The writing is embarrassing and the redesigns lack substance.  Sad to say that the comics were only thing that remained untouched, but in recent years, its just degenerated into a convoluted mess full of plots and pointless storyarcs used as excuses to make these unnecessary changes.  It just shows lack of quality or effort cause now the SatAM cast blends in with the rest of SegaSonic characters.

 

 

Yeeeep, because the comic was always like SatAM from it's very first issue. Man do I love reading those old issues which had Scratch and Grounder. True, classic SatAM characters there. And the writing too! Oh man, such well written masterpieces back then too, truely gripping stuff, like that classic issue Sonic Live, a ground breaking piece of writing in that issue from the good old days. And man, wasn't it always exciting when Sonic would use the Chaos Emeralds and turn into Super Sonic, just like in SatAM? And I was always glad the comic stayed away from the games, although... I wonder what those Triple Trouble, Chaotix and Blast issues were all about?

 

Oh... oh wait... Now I remember, the comic was only loosely based on SatAM. Ooooh...

[jtreese]

The intention is to attract newer fans who are only familiar with the games, since it's the primary media these days. Having characters that don't match the look of the series' primary style is kinda alienating for some people. It's like pairing Bambi (a realistically-drawn character) with Bugs Bunny or Popeye the Sailor (very cartoony-looking characters). It just doesn't mesh.

This problem was especially apparent in SatAM, due to the presence of a cartoony, blue hedgehog with a cast of realistic-looking anthropomorphic characters. Had they redesigned Sonic to match the tone of the series, it wouldn't be that much of a problem. But because of his iconic likeness and mandates, they didn't dare to alter it. The only episode in the series that meshed well with his style was the pilot episode, due to the cartoonier designs, brighter colors, and more whimsical tone.

Since the Sonic series has already found a unique style to call its own, it makes sense to bring any ongoing series closer in order to attract the general target audience. And while the redesigns aren't perfect (I don't like Antoine's re-altered redesign), they're still the same characters we grew to enjoy. Had Sega wanted Archie to fallow their games directly by the book, they would've dropped the SatAM elements completely. But instead, they allowed them to continue as long as the meshed with their current direction for the series. In other words, you could view it as a second chance.

Exactly! I Agree.

[E122Psi]

Damn after looking at 256 I hoped they had improved Sal's design. And Antoine is looking more and more like a tanned Tails every second.

 

I just wished they understood that making characters more uniform with a design style isn't the same as making them into generic mish mashes of previous characters. It's even worse because we've been shown previous redesigns that were at least passable but then streamlined them some more (their first Antoine looked a bit empty coatless, but he at least still looked a LOT like Antoine, and it seems they considered giving Sally back her almond eyes but then reverted to the more generic Cream/Marine ones).

[jtreese]

Damn after looking at 256 I hoped they had improved Sal's design. And Antoine is looking more and more like a tanned Tails every second.

 

I just wished they understood that making characters more uniform with a design style isn't the same as making them into generic mish mashes of previous characters. It's even worse because we've been shown previous redesigns that were perfectly fine but then streamlined them some more (their first Antoine looked a bit empty coatless, but he at least still looked a LOT like Antoine, and it seems they considered giving Sally back her almond eyes but then reverted to the more generic Cream/Marine ones).

I can understand this. 

[FormerlyAKnotholeResident]

Damn after looking at 256 I hoped they had improved Sal's design. And Antoine is looking more and more like a tanned Tails every second.

 

I just wished they understood that making characters more uniform with a design style isn't the same as making them into generic mish mashes of previous characters. It's even worse because we've been shown previous redesigns that were at least passable but then streamlined them some more (their first Antoine looked a bit empty coatless, but he at least still looked a LOT like Antoine, and it seems they considered giving Sally back her almond eyes but then reverted to the more generic Cream/Marine ones).

 

Exactly, now we have characters that are difficult to decipher cause of the same design model they are share.  Its confusing and lazy.

[Louis the Hedgehog]

Let me explain myself more clearly. I understand that designs change in various things over time to keep things fresh. I expect it to happen a little bit some times, even welcome it a little bit. But these changes are usually to make things MORE unique, MORE detailed, MORE interesting. That's how things evolve after all.

 

But decay is not a form of evolution. These changes are going in the OPPOSITE direction. Why should we accept a design that reminds us of how when Sally was painfully transformed into a slave? Why should we even allow it? And yes her design HAS changed before but that was still an experimental phase when they were still trying to establish her signature look. And even during all those years after that short experimental period we had a few changes in minor details but that was due to different artists but the general pattern was all the same. THIS, however, is not the case.

 

And how do we even know this is the same character? This is a retooled universe with different history now. How do we even know if ANY of these characters are the same anymore? This all thanks to the genesis wave.

 

And one more thing. Why do the females HAVE to be clothed and all the males HAVE to avoid them?

 

I'm not judging the character, I'm judging what has happened to her. But put aside how you feel about the new design for a moment, and think about it this way. Right now there are people who like the new designs and those who hate it. But if they went back to their more common designs from the past, the people who hate the new designs would be overjoyed, and the people who like the new designs would not mind. So why take the unnecessary risk?

[FormerlyAKnotholeResident]

Why should we accept a design that reminds us of how when Sally was painfully transformed into a slave? Why should we even allow it? And yes her design HAS changed before but that was still an experimental phase when they were still trying to establish her signature look. And even during all those years after that short experimental period we had a few changes in minor details but that was due to different artists but the general pattern was all the same. THIS, however, is not the case.

 

And how do we even know this is the same character? This is a retooled universe with different history now. How do we even know if ANY of these characters are the same anymore? This all thanks to the genesis wave.

 

Hmm, this is an interesting case I havent heard.  That makes Sally's outfit even more disturbing. 

[LogiTeeka]

Let me explain myself more clearly. I understand that designs change in various things over time to keep things fresh. I expect it to happen a little bit some times, even welcome it a little bit. But these changes are usually to make things MORE unique, MORE detailed, MORE interesting. That's how things evolve after all.

But decay is not a form of evolution. These changes are going in the OPPOSITE direction. Why should we accept a design that reminds us of how when Sally was painfully transformed into a slave? Why should we even allow it? And yes her design HAS changed before but that was still an experimental phase when they were still trying to establish her signature look. And even during all those years after that short experimental period we had a few changes in minor details but that was due to different artists but the general pattern was all the same. THIS, however, is not the case.

From what I can tell, the redesigns are more of a remodel rather than a downgrade. Like, they're taking the basic designs of the characters we know and reshaping them to match the standards nowadays. This includes removing elements which don't apply (e.g. furry cheeks for females) and adding elements to keep them modern (e.g. clothes and such).

But on the other hand, they still have key features which we know them by. Sally's still a red-headed chipmunk in boots, Rotor's still a large purple walrus, and Bunnie's still a cyborg rabbit. The only one I'm not quite liking at the moment is Antoine's re-altered redesign; there was something lost when they decided to remove his eye-patterns. But at least he's still a sword-swinging coyote. It's not like they changed them all into hedgehogs or something.

And how do we even know this is the same character? This is a retooled universe with different history now. How do we even know if ANY of these characters are the same anymore? This all thanks to the genesis wave.

Because Ian assured us that they'll still act like their counterparts before the Genesis wave. He knows the reputation of these characters and is hoping to keep that spirit alive despite the new direction for the comics.

And one more thing. Why do the females HAVE to be clothed and all the males HAVE to avoid them?

I'm not so sure on the whole clothes issue (Sonic isn't the only franchise which does this), but having the males avoid the females is more of Sonic's gig when being chased by Amy, isn't it? I doubt they'll make all the males shy towards females.

I'm not judging the character, I'm judging what has happened to her. But put aside how you feel about the new design for a moment, and think about it this way. Right now there are people who like the new designs and those who hate it. But if they went back to their more common designs from the past, the people who hate the new designs would be overjoyed, and the people who like the new designs would not mind. So why take the unnecessary risk?

They could use the characters' original designs, but they'll have to risk confronting Sega's mandates on this (since it's their product), and that could mean a potential cancellation. If they're to continue, they'll have to abide to the rules.

I mean, which is worse? Polishing your antiques, or abandoning them?

[Captain Sorzo]

I mean, which is worse? Polishing your antiques, or abandoning them?

 

This isn't so much polishing the designs as slamming them into a cookie cutter mold until they fit, with parts breaking off in the process. You're left with a fractured mess that lacks the spirit of the originals. But hey, at least they look like everything else now! Can't have any scary visual diversity getting in the way of stagnant blandness, now can we?

 

But on the other hand, they still have key features which we know them by.

 

I could argue that the infamous Sanic drawing shares key features with Sonic's current design. That doesn't mean they're anywhere close to equivalent quality.

[E122Psi]

It's just some of the alterations (eg. no cheek fuzz for females) seem ridiculously nit picky, in sort of a 'No SEGA has it so none of these characters can'. It's somewhat a clear sign that the cast aren't allowed to look original. Sure they kept the odd minor trait so you can link them to some basic degree, but it doesn't mean they are authentic to their original designs, especially since they now have so many superfluous design aspects linked to other characters just as much now (Ant almost has more links to Tails than his first design now, the wig's almost the only clear cut thing that links him to his original Satam form).

 

People also forget that Yuji Uekawa, while making too many samey designs at times (eg. Silver, Marine), is capable of making very unique looking characters, take Big for example, especially compared to fellow cat Blaze (who probably still breaks more usual SEGA traits than any of these designs do herself). I just feel there was a lot more opening for compromise when making the cast more 'SEGA like' than what we got here, especially since, as said, they did actually make some more authentic redesigns within the process.

 

 

I'm not so sure on the whole clothes issue (Sonic isn't the only franchise which does this), but having the males avoid the females is more of Sonic's gig when being chased by Amy, isn't it? I doubt they'll make all the males shy towards females.
 

I think he's talking about the males avoiding CLOTHES, as in why does Ant suddenly have to naked now. It seems another case of 'no previous character does that so lets not turn heads'.

[jtreese]

I want you guys to See this! 

A girl on deviantART by the username of "AwesomeBlossomPossum" (I swear that's her name), Has been doing some redesign sketches for different Sonic females based on the ones from the "New Mobius." Check it out: