18 replies to this topic

[Louis the Hedgehog]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=vIkVUZ8T5Mg

If you ask me, Boehner is acting like Ken Penders. He thinks he's giving the Obama administration the finger, but he's actually giving it to the entire country.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Bu3TVrjmPW4

 

Sure I think Obama could be doing a LOT better in some places but is it really so bad that we have a medical safety-net more like all the rest of the industrialized countries out there?

[Vlad Yvhv]

I told y'all the system was FUBAR...

 

I still say we should just kill off all the politicians and start over with a new politician-free system.

[Louis the Hedgehog]

I told y'all the system was FUBAR...

 

I still say we should just kill off all the politicians and start over with a new politician-free system.

So what are you suggesting, all-out anarchy? Isn't that what this shutdown will eventually lead to? And even if we do get rid of our current government, we would still need some way to organize how the people of the country work together which would create a new government all over again.

 

Or would you rather go back to the dark ages?

[furrykef]

Knowing Vlad, it's probably the Dark Ages one.

[brmsort]

The shutdown doesn't bother me, except that it is not really a shutdown. They are still spending money like drunken sailors, they are still expected to raise our debt limit, and Obama's administration is throwing a hissy fit by unnecessarily -- or spitefully, depending on your perspective -- closing off portions of the country.

So the only part of the shutdown that disappoints me is that the Federal government is not shutdown enough.

[MoKat]

I agree with Bram there ^

 

As somebody said in the 10,000 Pages or Bust thread...

 

Seriously, I'm getting sick of all this "It's the Republicans' fault!" "No, it's the Democrats' fault!" bullshit. Our country would not be so fucked up if everyone stopped pretending party lines are the absolute authority.

 

Basically every single Pro-Democrat or Pro-Republican argument can be summed up as "Well, we wouldn't be in this situation if the Republicans/Democrats just did what we said." And that goes for every issue, not just this shutdown nonsense.

 

This crap has got to stop.

Indeed, this crap has to stop; but who's gonna make it stop?  And how?

[Uncle Ben]

I still love how everyone thinks the GOP is "holding the country hostage" while the same time the Dems have had a "My way or the highway" mentaility since last year.

 

The GOP is trying to help the country by trying to solve the debt crisis instead of "Raising the ceiling" again. Obamacare is a different story and as i said in 10K Pages there is some really shifty stuff in the bill.

[MoKat]

Heh. The Dems have had a "My way or the highway" mentaility all along (not just last year); that's how the so-called "Affordable Care Act" got shoved through Congress in the first place.  Bleh!  Affordable my ass!  You're right, Ben, tho' "really shifty stuff" is an understatement IMO.

[Uncle Ben]

Did you know that Obamacare is a tax that "wont be treated as a tex"

 

That Congress/Reps./President are exempt

 

that it gives the Feds the rights to access your bank accounts and do what they please?

[TheRedStranger]

The shutdown doesn't bother me, except that it is not really a shutdown. They are still spending money like drunken sailors, they are still expected to raise our debt limit, and Obama's administration is throwing a hissy fit by unnecessarily -- or spitefully, depending on your perspective -- closing off portions of the country.

So the only part of the shutdown that disappoints me is that the Federal government is not shutdown enough.

 

Okay, so Obama's magic panacea for Health Care ends up closing down WICK (which feeds newborn children akin to food stamps with formula), has furloughed countless soliders (My dad , who has fought for this country for over 12 years, is about to loose his job if this doesn't get fixed along with them), and the VA (again, our soliders), and the handicapped. The two face jackle talk all sweet to out active duty soliders in that one video and blames congress, but it's really just his jacked adminstration and his oversimplistic rhetoric (X is good, Y is bad, I am X) . The Republicans have been arm-baring him so far, gradually pushing the budget back to the need shape. Wick is back, the children are safe. VA is back. Still, countless public servants and soliders  are at risk of going without. Guys, trust a person on the inside of all this: I am hearing horror stoires left an right... and I have some of my own. This shutdown is the by-product of a fluke anyways because it was passed by a transitional supermajority in a fly-by-night session of congress with people in postions that were going to be swifltly replaced due to the big change in public opinion anyways. This was a case of vindictive idealism over realism at it's worse... 

 

 It's like I said on the Syria thread.

 

 Obama manipulated uncritical people with buzzwords and hollow concepts to get into office. "Hope" and "change" are meaningless terms without academic clarification and proper execution. If people just asked questions like "What the hell do you mean by change, what are you changing, and how does it benefit America?" (Look at the soaring debt since that flunkie's been in office!) We'd might have someone a bit more competent in the Whitehouse.   

 

 Indeed a stubborn anti-colonial ideologue with a whole lot of personal baggage that deludes his sense of policy. Those are most volatile of politicians (IRS scamming religious charities and conservatives, Gaza, and a foul-mouthed sycophant for a vice-president show how inept and ideologically bankrupt and egocentric his current administration is). He has no idea of economic, social, and political consequences. Overall, he can't see the world for what it is, but what he wants it to be...so much danger in that. He and his quarreling administration has not the ethos to rule.

 

I am an army brat, my father and my father's father are and were military men. I have many people I care about who wear my nation's uniform, and all of them call him one thing: "Zero". Why? Because he has zero military experience our combat intellgence (seriously, he is making a mess of our military, cutting important budgets left and right, and wasn't he just casting a ballot to throw our young men and women into another war?). He is also doing soldiers very dirty...half of my friends after all their toil overseas are just being heartlessly furloughed and fired by old Dr. Obamnik. Obamacare for one is a giant "cool story bro", naive and destructive (I know of two businesses that I frequent are going bankrupt and three people who are forced to file bankruptcy because it's just about to happen - imagine when it fully hits the fan. Our budget can't take the strain...

 

 I am a CLT (a community living tech) who works with the disabled so they can achieve independence when it comes to basic life skills; my current client needs the social-safety net because he has special needs. When that social security is divided up into nothing, he and various others like him might not have the needed resources to survive or thrive. His yearly budget is already in danger... Instead, people who are perfectly capable of getting healthcare (or at least save some money in an emergency budget like I do - seriously do this, you will be doing yourself a favor) won't be getting it. Also, when some idiot gets drunk and crashes his car, knocks someone up, or gets an STD - guess who is paying the medical bill, us. When we are busy sharing wealth in a consumerist culture, it quickly becomes consumed. The individuals must produce capital by his or her works for the community, if they wishes to prosper. 

 

To put it simply: If you are capable, if you don't work you don't eat.

 

 I'd encourage willful charity and social policy that supported altruists and philanthropy over a forced mass-socialism any day. Sad thing about Obama's welfare policies is that they don't fare well for those who actually need it, the elderly and the otherwise disabled. For example...My little brother who has epilepsy. He is medically dependant on Lamictal and Kepra. If all these welfare-queens and their Obama-phones drain the already scant budget, people like my brother will most likely loose their medicine (which is 3000 bucks a pop). If that happens this means he goes into a siezure he doesn't come out of. My faith stands strong that he will fine (prayers would be welcome though). Just like Stalin's five-year plans. Obama's regressive quasi-communistic policies are a threat to countless. People have protested this problem in paticular...65 Special Needs people were arested  in front of the White-House the other day for just that (a paranoid woman was also shot, and a guy set himself on fire right there on the green).

 

All I can say for those who casted their ballot unwisely, people like my brother thank you so much for voting for the guy...

 

 I believe Romney would have done better, he is a man of management and logistically capable. Though I still (after thoroughly studying their doctrine) would be incredibly hesitant to have a Mormon in the Whitehouse. I'd fear the connection to the powerful and agenda-ladend LDS church would cloud his judgment when it comes to sensible social policy. But his practical skills outmatched Obama bar none. Sadly, people only think with their feelings nowadays and fickle concepts and are easly bought. 

 

 Look at it this way: A plumber might keep up appearances, he might speak of lofty things, but ultimately what matters is if he can whip out a plunger and get crap done. And if he or his cronies are making up names and setting people against each other in mindless debate, than he is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

 Also, he will "not comprimise" with congress, but he wants to talk things out with psychopathic dictators in Iran and Syria? When does the coupe happen guys? King Obama just axed the army, when does Julian pop out and roboticize us all.

 

 Next term I nominate Princess Sally. She'd get the job done! She always does. Our first furry president!    

[TheRedStranger]

They're all crooks and I would like to have enough stocks set up for each one of those embarrassments in D.C. so we can lock them in those stocks and proceed to throw rotten vegetables at the lot of them! This is not only stupid, it's disgraceful! One of these days the populace will hopefully wake up and realize that the whole democrat vs. republican thing isn't even an issue and is nothing more than a distraction to keep the populace at each others' throats with political ideologies that are made to divide the nation. If you want proof, look no further than their campaign contributors; in many cases such as oil companies have hedged their bets and contributed equal amounts to both presidential candidates. As one person wrote during the last election: "We need to make the suits our politicians wear like the outfits NASCAR drivers wear with all of their sponsors' patches covering them, so we know who owns them." What I'm saying is no matter if we had Obama or Romney at this point it would be no different; they both answer to the same masters.

Who will win this one? The republicans? The democrats? Whoever it is it is NOT THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY!

 

 I would really love the source for that if you can find it. I'd like to use it.

 

Hm, I would say the opposite can be true too. Obama specifically had General Motors by the bullocks. He even coaxed some of the higher ups to hit the road. Truth is they wear the label then shove it down their throats when they get in office. Obama has been at odds with various commericial entities like Hobby Lobby, Private Insurance Firms, and various Hospitals (poor Catholics get bossed around by the guy all the time...).

 

Indeed, It's a giant game of thrones admist suffering people. The republicans have earned my respect by saving Wick, the VA, and care for our seniors (my grandparents are safe...thank God).

[chief]

As a outsider...This is all funny.  To be honest I hope America shuts down and falls apart (in a ...good way?).   I mean it has to happen eventually. Money wise if you talk to any money person America can and will never get out of debt.  The most you can semi pray for is to be able to just pay off the interest rates.

 

Ironically the big thing from keeping the American dollar from tanking is the fact that there is more printed money outside of America then what there is in America.  The green back has been that sorta stable dollar in poor countries for decades.   Their money is worthless so a lot of your business transactions etc were done using the American Dollar.

 

However eventually that will also tank.   Printing off more money will eventually reverse its self and the system will collapse within its self.

This is not recent... Its just a problem that they keep pushing under the table.  Eventually you can't hide it any more. 

 

 

Of course do I think this will happen this time around?  Well no.. More money will be put out, credit cards will be increased and for another day America shall roll on.  But eventually, there will be so much debt vs earnings and interest and money in circulation that it will collapse.   

Not saying there will be anarchy, other countries have had a total money collapse and still come back from it.  Take Germany for example.  

[TheRedStranger]

Here's one article, and here's another there are many, many more instances.

Funny enough, the total lobbying money, (the money spent to bribe "argue their point" our elected officials), in total could have bought healthcare for every man, woman, and child for over 10 years. I'm sorry, but a man cannot serve two masters, and in this instance who is said elected official going to follow? The one who elected them or the one fattening their bank accounts?

 

Be careful of "hot button issues" where they use one of the divisive issues that in reality pails in comparison to some of the legislation they are trying to push clandestinely through. Here's one for you, earlier this year whilst The Supreme Court was voting on the controversial and gay rights laws they surreptitiously put through the Monsanto Protection Act. Again, this is just one instance.

 

*EDIT*

Actually, that second article was written before Obama started eclipsing McCain in the polls. After Obama started leading in the polls many of them shifted closer to a 50-50 distribution.

 

Hm,  Hollywood for one invested a lot in Obama as well. Neophytes with a lot of money to blow and no mental grip on the issues of lower-class and middle classes...with out the voting public being critical to the respecting campaings that insures a one way ticket to oligarchy. We can blame ourselves as indivuals for this as well for our lack of self-adovacy. We define the polls, and we give the money to the said corporations in what we buy. If we excercized our right to consumer soverignty and fought a bit, we could make a massive difference. Make their sins unprofitable.  

[TheRedStranger]

 

Hm,  Hollywood for one invested a lot in Obama as well. Neophytes with a lot of money to blow and no mental grip on the issues of lower-class and middle classes...with out the voting public being critical to the respecting campaings that insures a one way ticket to oligarchy. We can blame ourselves as indivuals for this as well for our lack of self-adovacy. We define the polls, and we give the money to the said corporations in what we buy. If we excercized our right to consumer soverignty and fought a bit, we could make a massive difference. Make their sins unprofitable.  

 

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

 

 

"Philosophers and ploughmen
Each must know his part
To sow a new mentality
Closer to the heart, well closer to the heart

You can be the captain
And I will draw the chart
Sailing into destiny
Closer to the heart, yes closer to the heart..." - You probably already know Bytor. .

[furrykef]

Please don't post in black text. It's invisible on a black background, which the forum skin I'm using has.

I still love how everyone thinks the GOP is "holding the country hostage" while the same time the Dems have had a "My way or the highway" mentaility since last year.

Who threatened to shut down the country if they didn't get their way? Oh, right, that was the GOP. They fired the first shot in this round.

To be fair, this whole system is retarded and it's certainly both sides' fault that it exists. But I don't see the Dems as the guilty party (or at least the as guilty party) in this particular case.

[brmsort]

Please don't post in black text. It's invisible on a black background, which the forum skin I'm using has.
 

I still love how everyone thinks the GOP is "holding the country hostage" while the same time the Dems have had a "My way or the highway" mentaility since last year.

Who threatened to shut down the country if they didn't get their way? Oh, right, that was the GOP. They fired the first shot in this round.

To be fair, this whole system is retarded and it's certainly both sides' fault that it exists. But I don't see the Dems as the guilty party (or at least the as guilty party) in this particular case.

 

I have no qualms blaming the shutdown on both of them equally. It takes two to tango, as the saying goes. Then again, I have no problem with a REAL shutdown. And that leads me to this point of contention:

 

The republicans have earned my respect by saving Wick, the VA, and care for our seniors (my grandparents are safe...thank God).

Frankly, I don't think these programs should exist. I have known WIC recipients, my dad is former Navy, and I too have grandparents, but the Federal government has no business being in this business. The fact that so many people have been furloughed (one estimate I read was about 800k!) just shows how out of control this Leviathan is. If vast portions of our population cannot exist without the Federal government, then we indeed have a big problem for how can we be a free people so long as our society is sucking on the State's breast? Do the less fortunate not have friends, family, churches, fraternities, etc. that they can rely on during hard times? If this is not the case, then we have such a monumental societal problem that we are much closer to a collapse then we can imagine.

 

I am no stranger to hardship in the family. I had to support my unemployed brother and his young family a few years back. Eventually, with no job on the horizon, he joined the Army Reserves while his wife and infant son lived in a renovated apartment on my property. While in training my brother tore a ligament in his knee. Thanks to the military delaying so long (months!) to provide his surgery, he now has a disability in his 20s!

And now he now has to fight CPS to keep his kids because of his in-laws bringing baseless accusations against him. Luckily, he has a lawyer in his church who is doing this work pro bono, but before that was known, my entire income was at his disposal to fight this stupidity.

 

So I have seen how the monster of big government on multiple levels has abused my family. The whole lot of it needs to go and people need to start helping each other out!

 

Shut it down!

[furrykef]

Tell me: do you compromise with a bully? If a guy threatens to break your jaw if you don't do what he wants, do you think doing what he wants or finding a middle ground is the right thing to do? Sure, people may do such things out of a sense of self-preservation, but doesn't it just encourage the bully?

[TheRedStranger]

Tell me: do you compromise with a bully? If a guy threatens to break your jaw if you don't do what he wants, do you think doing what he wants or finding a middle ground is the right thing to do? Sure, people may do such things out of a sense of self-preservation, but doesn't it just encourage the bully?

 

 Careful with that Kef, my friend. You don't want to become uncomprimingly comprimsal either (in all aspects of life especially). Stand up for what you think, just don't stand over people. I support a gradual reform for this problem. I support constant and steady reformation away from the social safety net and towards more private forms of charity and services accomplishing independence in indivduals instead of codependence, like my own job as a Community Living Tech for the disabled. I invest time as servant of our goverment  edyfying people towards independence, not boxing them up in the red-tape of welfare. It is sad how bad the opposite destroys these people's social mobility.

 

 Don't become like a battered house wife kow-towing to an abusive husband wanting sex. There are some times where we must say "Give me liberty, or give me death," for a life without liberty is not a life lived at all. When dealing with the difficult the world needs more Church Hill's than Chamberlands. Shutdowns, shouting matches, and possibly eventual civil war, are always last resorts, but when some fool deems them necessary you better punch back as hard as you can.

[TheRedStranger]

You know, if we hadn't have gone into TWO UNFUNDED WARS there wouldn't be a budget deficit. Both sides of the isle sold out the American people on that. Before we went to war with Iraq on a bogus intel, (WMD anyone?), we actually had a surplus! Over the last decade we've been going to China to pay for our wars. Meanwhile the last administration cut taxes and this one has more or less followed suit since they both answer to the same masters, which only exacerbated the problem.

 

When it came to the Bush Administration: Well, that's probably the biggest embarssment to the republican party in a long time (even though the vast majority of Democrats voted to go to Iraq, so they aren't saints - Bytor's right). 

 

 When it comes Obama: We had a dream...we got a nightmare. 

 

People in the 1930's actually were more competant survivalists than us to.