27 replies to this topic

[GamemasterAnthony]

The only real mistake Sega made, from where I see it, was by saying "there's nothing the fans can do about it" in regards to the comic.  Two problems with that.

 

One...they are wrong.  The fans could decide to say "Take that spike blue rodent of yours and shove it up your ass!" and then decide to walk away from the series completely.  Essentially, screwing both the game and the comic because Sega decided to be a complete douche to the fans.  Technically, they ARE right that the fans could do nothing about which creative direction the comic goes, but they could have been more tactful with it.  Come to think of it...didn't Adam Orth get fired from Microsoft for telling gamers to "deal with it" in a very similar manner?

 

Two...they're doing it wrong in regards to the comic.  By that I mean they're treating the comic as an advertising medium first rather than as entertainment first.  The comic can work wonders as a means to advertise, but only if it is entertaining and engaging...AND if the the fans can become vested in it.  Sega should probably ask another company that nearly screwed themselves over when THEY tried to use an alternate medium as advertisement first and nearly killed a popular franchise when they did.  That company...was HASBRO!

 

See...Hasbro during G1 Transformers tried to use the movie as a means to bring in the new line of characters and toys and say goodbye to some of the older ones.  Unfortunately, when one of the characters they killed off in the movie was OPTIMUS PRIME, a lot of fans did the Peter Griffin "DONE!" and walked away.  Hasbro didn't realize that the fans were vested in a lot of the characters, including the fact that many saw Optimus as pretty much the face of the franchise.  Just imagine what would happen if Game Freak decided to get rid of Ash's Pikachu in the anime and you get the idea.  So...Hasbro had to figure out a way to revive Optimus and get those fans back.

 

Sega's making the same mistake here.  A lot of the fans, especially the "old school" fans they were trying to draw back, are pretty much vested in the idea of Sonic and Sally being a couple since a lot of those fans are still fans of the old SatAM series.  (This message board is proof of that!)  In fact, by trying to reset Sonic ALL the way back, they basically screwed Sonic over because they tried to retcon a lot of the more significant and (in my opinion) important character developments in Sonic.  Sonic as a hero is great...but Sonic as someone who can be like a brother to Tails and can still find time to have a relationship is a more well rounded character instead of a two-dimensional trope.

 

Actually...Sega should just step back and let Ian do his own thing with the comic.  People liked "Sonic Other-M" because he could tell a relatively good story while still remaining faithful to the source material.  Hell...I thought playing off when Knuckles was a villian in Sonic 3 to make him a villian in Other-M was pretty clever.  The only reason people hate Ian right now is because even I could tell there was a story Ian WANTED to write...but Sega isn't letting him.  Worse yet...this seems to be coloring people's view of the old Other-M comic since I've seen those who once liked the comic now badmouthing it.

 

I think the fans will come around once the story becomes more cohesive.  Yes, like bwrosas said there will still be those who aren't satisfied, but overall I think if Ian can be allowed to write the story he was trying to write without Sega sticking their nose in that the comic will be better off as a result and the fans will like it more.

[RedAuthar]

 

 

Actually...Sega should just step back and let Ian do his own thing with the comic.  People liked "Sonic Other-M" because he could tell a relatively good story while still remaining faithful to the source material.  Hell...I thought playing off when Knuckles was a villian in Sonic 3 to make him a villian in Other-M was pretty clever.  The only reason people hate Ian right now is because even I could tell there was a story Ian WANTED to write...but Sega isn't letting him.  Worse yet...this seems to be coloring people's view of the old Other-M comic since I've seen those who once liked the comic now badmouthing it.

 

Just for the record, I never liked Other M.  While I agree the new main cast was a nice touch, and it had a really in depth story with amazing characterization, it just wasn't my cup of tea.  I didn't like that Two of my favorite characters were turned evil (Knuckles and Tails) without good reason (Miles was just evil.  Period.  And Knuckles's reasonings were limited at best), and too often the Comic felt that Everyone was on the run.  Part of the Charm of SatAM is even though the heroes were at the disadvantage, their victories seemed to mean something.  Other M seemed to focus the other way, victories were fleeting, and the defeats seemed to have more lasting effects.  Also everybody died.  A lot.  And I know sometimes you can't make a comic without killing a few X-Men, but back to the victories scenario, the deaths ALWAYS felt wasted.  Bark dies saving people...but achieves relatively nothing.  Robotnik dies trying to save the team, Bean dies anyways.  In fact the original outcome was everyone died so they sent Sonic home, just for him to use Zonic to cheat and fix everything (hey...Ian was retconing back then too).  

 

Now again, I'm not saying it was BAD, in fact it was really good for a fan story, but it just wasn't my cup of tea.

Just had to get that outta the way. 

 

I agree 100% about letting Ian do his own thing.  

 

Everyone keeps blaming him for everything that is going "bad" but it isn't him.  The Editors have changed the direction, and SEGA has made a few Mandates.  What Ian is actually doing is FIXING said problems.  SEGA or Editors make this demand, Ian manages to squeeze it into the story AND STILL manages to keep the comic interesting.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 

Actually...Sega should just step back and let Ian do his own thing with the comic.  People liked "Sonic Other-M" because he could tell a relatively good story while still remaining faithful to the source material.  Hell...I thought playing off when Knuckles was a villian in Sonic 3 to make him a villian in Other-M was pretty clever.  The only reason people hate Ian right now is because even I could tell there was a story Ian WANTED to write...but Sega isn't letting him.  Worse yet...this seems to be coloring people's view of the old Other-M comic since I've seen those who once liked the comic now badmouthing it.

 

Just for the record, I never liked Other M.  While I agree the new main cast was a nice touch, and it had a really in depth story with amazing characterization, it just wasn't my cup of tea.  I didn't like that Two of my favorite characters were turned evil (Knuckles and Tails) without good reason (Miles was just evil.  Period.  And Knuckles's reasonings were limited at best), and too often the Comic felt that Everyone was on the run.  Part of the Charm of SatAM is even though the heroes were at the disadvantage, their victories seemed to mean something.  Other M seemed to focus the other way, victories were fleeting, and the defeats seemed to have more lasting effects.  Also everybody died.  A lot.  And I know sometimes you can't make a comic without killing a few X-Men, but back to the victories scenario, the deaths ALWAYS felt wasted.  Bark dies saving people...but achieves relatively nothing.  Robotnik dies trying to save the team, Bean dies anyways.  In fact the original outcome was everyone died so they sent Sonic home, just for him to use Zonic to cheat and fix everything (hey...Ian was retconing back then too).  

 

Now again, I'm not saying it was BAD, in fact it was really good for a fan story, but it just wasn't my cup of tea.

Just had to get that outta the way. 

 

I agree 100% about letting Ian do his own thing.  

 

Everyone keeps blaming him for everything that is going "bad" but it isn't him.  The Editors have changed the direction, and SEGA has made a few Mandates.  What Ian is actually doing is FIXING said problems.  SEGA or Editors make this demand, Ian manages to squeeze it into the story AND STILL manages to keep the comic interesting.

 

 

 

 Bring your issues about Other M to the Fan Fiction thread we have been discussing on. I'd appreciate your insights.

 

  I agree letting Ian have creative Freedom with Sonic. I still see him as one of us, and he cares about his work (unlike SEGA). I would love to see half these counterproductive yappers forced in his SEGA-weighted shoes. 

[GamemasterAnthony]

Definitely agree with both of you guys.  As I see it, while it might not be an idea to coddle ALL of the fans and give them what they want (a certain Aesop fable comes to mind), there are those few fans out there that actually have a better insight on the source material from being a fan that gives them the power to do some real good with the material.  Ian has proven to be one of them and, like Red said, he is actually trying to fix previous problems with what had been done with the past issues but is being stifled by what I basically think is just politics between Archie and Sega.  Another arguement in favor of reforming copyright law, I guess...

 

Personally, I'm picturing the Sonic franchise starting to fall because of this and as a result I would SOOOOOOOO love to see Archie put out a comic where Sonic is giving Sega the middle finger and deciding to drop the comic right then and there.  In other words, I would not be surprised if things get so bad that Archie decides to cut ties with Sega before Sega goes down...and tries to bring Archie with them.

[Mike Arcade]

Personally, I'm picturing the Sonic franchise starting to fall because of this and as a result I would SOOOOOOOO love to see Archie put out a comic where Sonic is giving Sega the middle finger and deciding to drop the comic right then and there.  In other words, I would not be surprised if things get so bad that Archie decides to cut ties with Sega before Sega goes down...and tries to bring Archie with them.

 

I highly doubt the Sonic Series will fall if the comic ever goes for some stupid reason, it's a Video Game Series first and foremost, and with the games recently in the past 2 - 3 Years improving and getting better I'd highly doubt that will happen for a long time or at all. Sega isn't just Sonic, it has a large variety of series to fall back on (and Miku) though they don't do much with them, if anything with them going more digital recently they've been mostly saving money most of the time now. Just recently a new Arcade Board was revealed by them, they aren't going away anytime soon. They still have good releases and series like Yakuza for example, though I will admit they do tend to fall back on their older library too often. Also they are publishing the next Guilty Gear so there's that.

With all these lawsuits basically over it's just time for Sega to give them breathing room as they don't want past mistakes from the last run to happen, which considering stuff like 134 I can understand their paranoia. That's the only flaw left now and if Archie let's the Comic Team use whatever characters they want (from Penders Run) then we can finally get back on track here.

[Prime]

The only real mistake Sega made, from where I see it, was by saying "there's nothing the fans can do about it" in regards to the comic.  Two problems with that.

 

One...they are wrong.  The fans could decide to say "Take that spike blue rodent of yours and shove it up your ass!" and then decide to walk away from the series completely.  Essentially, screwing both the game and the comic because Sega decided to be a complete douche to the fans.  Technically, they ARE right that the fans could do nothing about which creative direction the comic goes, but they could have been more tactful with it.  Come to think of it...didn't Adam Orth get fired from Microsoft for telling gamers to "deal with it" in a very similar manner?

 

If fans walk away from the comic, the only ones who really lose out will be Archie. They'll cancel the book and Sega could simply license it off to another publisher. If they can't manage that, I don't think it'd bother them too much. The only way Sega will give a crap will be if fans put their foot down when it comes to the video games.

 

The problem with fandoms though are they are quick to say "This is shit! It's terrible! Fuck this franchise! It's not as good as it use to be!" And yet they will still get the latest installment which will result in further installments. Like with movies.Fans will complain about sequels and reboot/remakes, wanting Hollywood to produce something "original" but they will rush out and see the sequels on opening night, more or less promising yet another sequel. But when it comes to an original movie, they don't see it.

 

Two...they're doing it wrong in regards to the comic.  By that I mean they're treating the comic as an advertising medium first rather than as entertainment first.  The comic can work wonders as a means to advertise, but only if it is entertaining and engaging...AND if the the fans can become vested in it. 

 

But isn't that exactly what the comic is to Sega? It's a license product used to keep their gravytrain in public view inbetween games. You know the comic isn't exactly top priority to Sega. If it was, they'd be more willing to cut it some slack and be associated with it. Funny how Jazzwares produce the comic pack action figures, packing a reprint of an Archie issue, yet the figures with those issues are all characters from the video games. Maybe Jazwares has proposed the idea of developing figures of comic characters and Sega has shot them down, we don't know.

 

 

Sega should probably ask another company that nearly screwed themselves over when THEY tried to use an alternate medium as advertisement first and nearly killed a popular franchise when they did.  That company...was HASBRO!

 

See...Hasbro during G1 Transformers tried to use the movie as a means to bring in the new line of characters and toys and say goodbye to some of the older ones.  Unfortunately, when one of the characters they killed off in the movie was OPTIMUS PRIME, a lot of fans did the Peter Griffin "DONE!" and walked away.  Hasbro didn't realize that the fans were vested in a lot of the characters, including the fact that many saw Optimus as pretty much the face of the franchise.  Just imagine what would happen if Game Freak decided to get rid of Ash's Pikachu in the anime and you get the idea.  So...Hasbro had to figure out a way to revive Optimus and get those fans back.

 

Sorry mate, but I'ma calling bullshit to that one.

 

Granted, the death of Optimus did cause a bit of a backlash, but no way near enough to actually kill the franchise. The movie killed off Optimus, but the comics did it around the same time took and Optimus didn't return in the comics until 1988 when he became a Powermaster. For the animated series, the producers decided to bring him back quickly because of the backlash. Then in 1987 the series ended with the 3 parter 'The Rebirth'.

 

Was the series cancelled because of lackluster ratings? Not at all. 1987 also saw the cancellation of another Hasbro property that the studio was producing and that was G.I.JOE and any other Hasbro property they were producing. Sunbow had no stakes in any of the Hasbro properties they produced shows for and they actually lost money by giving those shows high production values and over running the budgets while Hasbro were the ones who reaped the rewards from toysales. When Transformers finished production in America, Takara in Japan took the mantel and continued to produce shows, but in America the comics continued until 1991 as did the toyline. Plus the comics themselves are known for killing off plenty of characters whos figures were no longer in toy stores.

 

Also, it wasn't so much fans doing a Peter Griffin "DONE", moooore like a lot of kids crying.

 

 

 

Actually...Sega should just step back and let Ian do his own thing with the comic.  People liked "Sonic Other-M" because he could tell a relatively good story while still remaining faithful to the source material.  Hell...I thought playing off when Knuckles was a villian in Sonic 3 to make him a villian in Other-M was pretty clever.  The only reason people hate Ian right now is because even I could tell there was a story Ian WANTED to write...but Sega isn't letting him.  Worse yet...this seems to be coloring people's view of the old Other-M comic since I've seen those who once liked the comic now badmouthing it.

 

Doubtful Sega is going to allow that. Maybe back in the past when they didn't really care what was being produced as long as Archie paid up with license fees, but now? They got a licensed product which is currently the longest running comic based off a video game series and it seems they want to know what's going on in said book, especially when it concerns characters that appear in their gravytrain.

 

It is a shame that Ian is getting a lot of stick from people for things that aren't his fault. I'm not saying the guy is totally blameless because there have been somethings he has done which have been pretty bad, but there's things he has done which have been good too. Problem is, people won't remember the things he has done right, but they'll jump on him for the things he has done wrong. People need a scapegoat and the easiest person to blame is the guy who is writing the comic. Because as the writer, they see that person as the one in charge of the storyline. What a lot of folks don't realise is that the editors are mainly in charge of what happens storywise. Editors have to approve of what the writer gives them and editors have the power to make changes and also tell the writer ideas that they want.

 

And yeah, it's also a bit of a kick to the teeth that people who once liked Other-M are now changing their opinion on it solely because of the current state of the comic and that's a bit shitty. That'd be like me claiming all of James Cameron's movies are complete shit because I don't like the last couple of movies he has done.

[TheRedStranger]

 

Personally, I'm picturing the Sonic franchise starting to fall because of this and as a result I would SOOOOOOOO love to see Archie put out a comic where Sonic is giving Sega the middle finger and deciding to drop the comic right then and there.  In other words, I would not be surprised if things get so bad that Archie decides to cut ties with Sega before Sega goes down...and tries to bring Archie with them.

 

I highly doubt the Sonic Series will fall if the comic ever goes for some stupid reason, it's a Video Game Series first and foremost, and with the games recently in the past 2 - 3 Years improving and getting better I'd highly doubt that will happen for a long time or at all. Sega isn't just Sonic, it has a large variety of series to fall back on (and Miku) though they don't do much with them, if anything with them going more digital recently they've been mostly saving money most of the time now. Just recently a new Arcade Board was revealed by them, they aren't going away anytime soon. They still have good releases and series like Yakuza for example, though I will admit they do tend to fall back on their older library too often. Also they are publishing the next Guilty Gear so there's that.

With all these lawsuits basically over it's just time for Sega to give them breathing room as they don't want past mistakes from the last run to happen, which considering stuff like 134 I can understand their paranoia. That's the only flaw left now and if Archie let's the Comic Team use whatever characters they want (from Penders Run) then we can finally get back on track here.

 

 

SEGA might not know what to do with Sonic because they can't write there way out of a paper bag with a durasteel stylus dipped in hydrocloric acid...but they won't die if they screw up Sonic (I'd think it would cripple them horribly, but still). Look at amazing series like Total War in which they are involved, niches like that really support the company.

 

 I stick with what I said, have SEGA change from the inside out via generational grass-roots reform.

[Prince ByTor]

I don't foresee either the video games or the comic going anywhere soon. Sega is making the games cheap enough to turn a profit from even modest sales, not to mention the licensing of all of the Sonic merchandise out there. Now, the comic, as far as I know it's Archie's best selling comic book, and has been for years now. Unless they start to loose readership, which I can see happening if people keep getting left feeling unsatisfied, I don't see much changing.