206 replies to this topic

[Uncle Ben]

 

Ohp, Ben mentioned romance, now I feel we're obliged to talk about the ever akward subject.

 

What do you think was corny and how could they make it more beliveable, impacting, and less smaltzy.

Considering the comic is updated on a monthly basis, I don't really think there is a problem with the romances.  To go any deeper and make things more complex or meaningful would distract from the adventure and the other story or seem to drag on for being to long.  But do any less would make the romances a bit pointless and characters would lose a lot of their appeal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I believe the romances could be improved, I just don't think it needs to be at the moment. 

 

Though they could tone down on the long winded Love Triangles.  Ever since Geoffrey showed up there has been some love triangle going on.  I'd rather focus on another aspect of the characters' relationships rather than other options.

 

Though I also don't blame them for sticking with the love triangles as the one other time they tried to add drama in a relationship ended up with fans enraged (the slap). 

 

 

Actually its more or less a Pentagon.... or some crazy shape.

 

You got this: Sonic----> Sally

 

Khan <------- Sally --------> Sonic

 

Amy -------> Sonic

 

Geoffrey -----/-----> Sally (was there until Hershey came along)

 

Why can't we all just get along?

Oh right, because we're assfaced morons.

 

Well if there is one of us that don't deserve that title it would be you. Why? Because you realize the fact that a portion of the fandom is indeed mornicly whiny and that we need to be more civil. You gotta know a problem before you can fix it.

 

The more sensible people we all become, the better things will get - if not for the whole fandom, then at least our growing community. Remember people tend to avoid the obnoxious but listen to the encouraging. More constructivly critical our voices become, the more they will stand out and be heard.

 

 

See the thing i see is that the older fans usually get along with others better than the newer generation

[RedAuthar]

See the thing i see is that the older fans usually get along with others better than the newer generation

That's a lie and a half.  The oldest Sonic fans (The Pure Genesis Sonic Fans) are complete jerks.  If it isn't The original 2D games, it is bad.  The comics, cartoons, Modern games, all of it is bad.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  And if you disagree it's because you're too young and stupid to know what good gaming is.  

 

Every group in the Sonic Fandom are jerks.  Because if it isn't the part their pet favorite Sonic it's terrible.  Not to pick on Uncle Ben but he's a good example: 

He hates everything in the comic past issue 130 (or was it 134, meh.  Details).  Because he doesn't like the new direction.  But can you honestly tell me that there wasn't a single good issue in the following 100+ issues?  No matter what people say he expects the worst. (Again not to pick on Ben, he's really cool.)

 

I can even use myself as an example:

I hate Sonic Generations.  I would play Sonic '06 over Anytime.  Why?  Because the game's story was garbage and game itself was too short, being artificially lengthened by these boring and sometimes frustrating mini-game-levels that were required to continue.  I feel the game is better as a test demo showing they can still make good gameplay in Sonic rather than an actual game.  And I don't understand why people praise it for being such a good game. 

At the same time I don't understand why everyone praises Sonic 2 as the best game.  Taking advice from other people that Sonic 4's physics Engine is garbage compared to Sonic 2 I went back and played some Sonic 2.  I can't tell you how many times I died from cheap deaths or small bugs in the physics engine.  It isn't perfect.  Comparatively speaking, both Physics engines are equally bad.  It just depends on your preference of Sonic play style (Do you like the Classic Games, or the Advance/Rush Games?).  Personally I have more fun playing the Adventure/Rush games so I like the physics in Sonic 4 Episode 2 (I don't have Episode 1 so....), and quite frankly I don't like how everyone seem to think that the Genesis Games could do no wrong, while the newer games flaws are always pointed out. (I'm mean you probably coulda guessed it from how I started this thing ).

 

Now I'm not saying every individual fan is a terrible "Butt"face.  However Not a single group of fans are better than another.  Older, newer, synthetic, doesn't matter. Trust me, even Sonic SatAM has a few stinker/awkward moments that we tend to overlook because it's our favorite.  

 

 

 

 

Ohp, Ben mentioned romance, now I feel we're obliged to talk about the ever akward subject.

 

What do you think was corny and how could they make it more beliveable, impacting, and less smaltzy.

Considering the comic is updated on a monthly basis, I don't really think there is a problem with the romances.  To go any deeper and make things more complex or meaningful would distract from the adventure and the other story or seem to drag on for being to long.  But do any less would make the romances a bit pointless and characters would lose a lot of their appeal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I believe the romances could be improved, I just don't think it needs to be at the moment. 

 

Though they could tone down on the long winded Love Triangles.  Ever since Geoffrey showed up there has been some love triangle going on.  I'd rather focus on another aspect of the characters' relationships rather than other options.

 

Though I also don't blame them for sticking with the love triangles as the one other time they tried to add drama in a relationship ended up with fans enraged (the slap). 

 

 

Actually its more or less a Pentagon.... or some crazy shape.

 

You got this: Sonic----> Sally

 

Khan <------- Sally --------> Sonic

 

Amy -------> Sonic

 

Geoffrey -----/-----> Sally (was there until Hershey came along)

 

 

....it's still called a love triangle.  

[TheRedStranger]

What about the mechanics of the Master Emerald, Chaos Emeralds, Magic, and/or "going super"? What would you guys change about that?

[Alextendo]

I personally don't agree how the older Sonic game get better received only for ''nostalgia''. I've never had any nostalgia for the older Sonic game since i grew up with a SNES. In fact, the first real Sonic game i've play was Sonic Adventure 2 for the gamecube, so i should be more like in the second generation of fan. But when i discover (that was later) the earlier game, i enjoyed them more, since they are actualy better in term of level design and gameplay. I feel more connected to the original game than the newer Sonic game since i discover them.

 

The original trilogy have a much more fluid gameplay and mechanic. Blaming your death by claiming it as being ''cheap'', is ironicly cheap. The original game does a better job to avoid cheap death and the physic work way better. The newer game, the level design aren't as fluid and the physic don't work the same at all. This make the newer game much more clunkier and unatural.

[Alextendo]

*Edit*

 

Alexandro, I really like hearing your experience and point of view; it adds a lot to the discussion. I too only have my personal experience to explain why I like the original ones more than the newer ones. Thanks for the input!

Thanks I appreciate to know i can be usefull here.

 

PS: My name is actually Alexandre, but you were close.

[RedAuthar]

The original trilogy have a much more fluid gameplay and mechanic. Blaming your death by claiming it as being ''cheap'', is ironicly cheap. The original game does a better job to avoid cheap death and the physic work way better. The newer game, the level design aren't as fluid and the physic don't work the same at all. This make the newer game much more clunkier and unatural.

Not to continue arguing about that here, but a cheap death in a game is where the game sets you up to get hurt or killed and you can't do much to stop it.  

 

Example: Casino Night Zone Boss - If you spindash up the walls but go too far up them Sonic will automatically come out of his spindash and start running.  You then come down and hit Robotnik's vehicle taking damage instead of dishing it out.  Making matters worse the fight is a tall arena rather than a long one so the majority of your rings bounce away before you recover enough to get them.  Occasionally Robotnik will even attack killing you the moment you recover.  There is nothing good that comes out of this gameplay design.  It's either flawed/glitched or just downright cheap.  It makes an otherwise easy boss frustratingly difficult.  

 

In Sonic 2, Sonic feels too float-y for me.  Like he doesn't have any weight and even revving one spindash makes you launch away.  In Sonic 4 I feel like Sonic has weight.  That I have to put more effort into making him move or go fast.  Comparatively speaking neither is perfect, but preference wise I think 4 feels more natural because it feels like I'm controlling a person who has weight rather than one who doesn't.

 

 

What about the mechanics of the Master Emerald, Chaos Emeralds, Magic, and/or "going super"? What would you guys change about that?

I like how they switched from Unlimited Chaos Emeralds to just 7.  Honestly while it made sense in the past that there were tons of Chaos Emeralds, now it just seems silly.  

I also like how Super isn't based on Rings but rather a time limit.  Sonic is only Super for a little bit of time before it wears off.  

 

What I would change is the other Magical Objects.  The Source of Acorn, Naugus and the Panda (guy...thing...deity...whatever...Faust was it?), all three basically seem to have an all powerful magic that seems to not make any sense even to the wielders.  I think it would be better if they explained limits or how the magic works. 

[Alextendo]

 

The original trilogy have a much more fluid gameplay and mechanic. Blaming your death by claiming it as being ''cheap'', is ironicly cheap. The original game does a better job to avoid cheap death and the physic work way better. The newer game, the level design aren't as fluid and the physic don't work the same at all. This make the newer game much more clunkier and unatural.

Not to continue arguing about that here, but a cheap death in a game is where the game sets you up to get hurt or killed and you can't do much to stop it.

Hum, it's because i already know what a cheap death is.

 

 

The original trilogy have a much more fluid gameplay and mechanic. Blaming your death by claiming it as being ''cheap'', is ironicly cheap. The original game does a better job to avoid cheap death and the physic work way better. The newer game, the level design aren't as fluid and the physic don't work the same at all. This make the newer game much more clunkier and unatural.

Not to continue arguing about that here, but a cheap death in a game is where the game sets you up to get hurt or killed and you can't do much to stop it.  

 

Example: Casino Night Zone Boss - If you spindash up the walls but go too far up them Sonic will automatically come out of his spindash and start running.  You then come down and hit Robotnik's vehicle taking damage instead of dishing it out.  Making matters worse the fight is a tall arena rather than a long one so the majority of your rings bounce away before you recover enough to get them.  Occasionally Robotnik will even attack killing you the moment you recover.  There is nothing good that comes out of this gameplay design.  It's either flawed/glitched or just downright cheap.  It makes an otherwise easy boss frustratingly difficult.

Hum...when you do a spindash, Sonic doesn't automatically come out of his spindash and start running again unless you make him run again (like jumping or falling from a floor to a lower floor). For the rest, i try to figure out what you mean. I have beat this game countless time so i know what i'm talking about.

 

In Sonic 2, Sonic feels too float-y for me.  Like he doesn't have any weight and even revving one spindash makes you launch away.  In Sonic 4 I feel like Sonic has weight.  That I have to put more effort into making him move or go fast.  Comparatively speaking neither is perfect, but preference wise I think 4 feels more natural because it feels like I'm controlling a person who has weight rather than one who doesn't.

In Sonic 2 you have control. The control are sharp, quick and responsive. In Sonic 4 Episode 1, Sonic felt too heavy and unatural. Absolutly no momentum make it even worst! Sonic isn't suppose to be heavy like a brick tower. Even when you're in mid-air, you can end-up in a dead stop! Accelerating is a chore, since his movement are sluggish.

 

All in all, the original game give you better control over Sonic, making him fast, quick and responsive, all at once. Sonic 4 is a mess for that aspect, since the game engine make Sonic slow, clunky (to not say broken) and i cannot see how you can see it as being more ''natural''. Beside, Sonic 4 is filled with speed booster and spring everywhere, this is not how a good level design should be!

[Mike Arcade]

I'm back saying what I would do differently, sorry I went off at a tangent there with STC, it just happened out of nowhere. As for Red talking about Older Sonic Fans, I can say I'm a true old school fan but I haven't actually gotten into the community until about a year or two ago for, well obvious reasons. I like the comics myself but around after 100 and until 160 most of it sucked, not all of it but we all know why. As for the games I love Generations and as for Episode 1 and 2 it's okay, EP2 is a lot better though. I would not agree with Red that the classic Sonic games are as buggy as say EP2 but there are minor flaws and I've never ran into any bad glitches myself. Anyway back to the real purpose of this topic...

 

What about the mechanics of the Master Emerald, Chaos Emeralds, Magic, and/or "going super"? What would you guys change about that?

 

There really isn't much I'd change with the Mechanics of our favorite artifacts. I would have a consistent name for the Super forms (Super Sonic, Super Tails, Super Knuckles, etc.) rather then Super, Hyper, Turbo whatever. They do sound good but when you introduce another level of power (Ultra Sonic and Hyper Tails) THEN the names get convoluted. For Super Forms I'd have only 2 or 3, The Super Form that requires using 7 Chaos Emeralds or by getting a Million Rings (if that whole Billion Rings thing for Ultra Sonic is in effect why not turn Super with a Millionth Ring or something?), The Hyper Form that uses 1 or 7 Super Emeralds or by getting a Billion Rings, and finally as some kind of extra form should they end the series or something with an Ultra Form that requires all 7 Super Emeralds (and maybe the Master Emerald) or by getting a Trillion Rings. That's how I'd do it for the Super Forms, I never really got the Ultra Form Sonic has in the comic, personally I'd rather have them use Hyper Sonic if anything else, if they wanted to give that form elemental control too I wouldn't have minded since in S3&K there is a Fire, Water, and Lightning Shield, I always thought that Ultra Sonic's elemental control was a call back to Hyper and the Element Shields anyway.

 

I don't have a problem with how the emeralds worked in the Archie Comic either, nothing at all really. It would have been cool for there to always be a Master Emerald like in the games but as S&K didn't come out yet at the time I understand why they had 1 Chaos Emerald keeping the island floating, hell they did the same thing in STC too and that was cool. I would have had the Emeralds Multicolored like in the Games (and most of STC's run) though, that's just me but later during Tossed In Space and ADAM's attack we got to see all the other colored emeralds. The way I would have worked the Multicolored Emeralds is that there are multiple emeralds all over the Zone (Mobius and Space), they may be in a different shape then normal and possibly change there appearance after they are used (to explain why the emeralds looked differently during SA1 and Over). Collecting all 7 different emeralds allows you access to their true power, as each emerald are equally powerful their wavelengths (or something) are different, therefore if you collected the emeralds but had one that is the same color or ALL of them the same color there would be disastrous side effects, this also applies if you try to unlock the full power of the emeralds without collecting 7, if you miss even one and try to use them to go super it would not end well (think Tossed In Space with the 6 Red Emeralds or STC for example, hell Enerjak could work too as an example). You CAN use one or more emeralds for like stronger attacks or something but NOT to tap into their full power, you understand what I mean right? Now the Super Emeralds can be a little tricky, I have two ways they can work. The first is the Archie Sonic way where you can turn Hyper by using 1 Super Emerald, and with each S.E. the form becomes stronger, collecting all 7 will make you invincible OR if you want to work a 3rd form in, by getting them all it would allow you to ascend in an Ultra Form. The Second way is the Sega Sonic way, use 7 C.E. equals Super Sonic, use 7 S.E. equals Hyper Sonic, that's about it. But if you want to work in another form add the M.E. into the mix. Also none of that 7 Server Chao equals 7 Super Emeralds as that's just too convoluted, I'd have it like in S3&K where the M.E. turns the Chaos Emeralds into Super Emeralds. And right now I've had enough of Emeralds for awhile.

 

Now Magic and Ixis Magic on the other hand is something fans are completely confused with, and I can't blame them. But I do have a theory that possibly explains how it works. All energy and life comes from Chaos Energy, Humans, Mobians, whatever. Now Magic is related to Chaos BUT is different in a few ways, for one it uses the energy of the user, planet, just about everything. Now while Chaos Energy is the Source of everything, that doesn't mean it stays that way, it turns and changes so that the energy becomes a life of it's own and does not need Chaos Energy to survive anymore. That's why other beings and gods (such as Solaris for example) exist. Magic uses this Mana Energy (as we'll call it) to do pretty much anything the user wants as long as it follows the laws of physics in the Zone they are on, some are able to bend those laws but only a very few are powerful enough to do so. Ixis Magic pretty much works the same way, as it seems that Mogul (by taping into his Emerald) was able to find Mana Energy and master it more or less. This is why he was able to teach others how to use his own brand of Magic, the only difference between Ixis Magic and other Magic users is the way they use it. Ixis Magic is from Mogul's teachings while other kinds of Magic are from other teachings and sources. But it IS possible that Ixis Magic also scarcely taps into Chaos Energy and thus uses BOTH Chaos and Mana Energy, but I'll just leave that up to you to decide, I hope my theory makes much more sense of things in the comic.
 

One more thing I can point out is how Knuckles Chaos Form might work, as that form ALSO raises questions. This form (as we know) results from a natural connection to Chaos Energy itself, pure and from the source with no need of any Emeralds. Thankfully for Mobius, Knuckles was (and possibly still is) the only one that can reach this state. It's obvious that it's the most powerful first form in the comic, no questions there, but it could be possible that a Hyper form could match it in power, who knows. I do have a theory though, Knux Chaos form (Green Knuckles) was only the 1st phase of this Pure Chaos form, with each phase the user looks more like a Chaos Creature (like Chaos) until the user BECOMES a Chaos Creature (my guess is that it's a 3 to 4 phase process). That doesn't mean the newly formed being would be made out of water, knowing Knuckles he could be made out of Earth/Magma or Lightning for all we know, but that's just my assumption. But if that's the case shouldn't Chaos (from SA) be more powerful then Chaos Knuckles you ask? Well no, I mean considering Chaos was once a chao that ended up as a Chaos Creature, it might be possible that his form without Chaos Emeralds is what happens after the user reaches his Final Phase and then uses up nearly all of it's internal Chaos Energy it was given, thus ending up in a form similar to Chaos 0. Since that's the case, if a user keeps evolving in the Pure Chaos State past the 2nd Phase THEY CANNOT GO BACK TO NORMAL, they end up like Chaos 0, but considering this has never happened to any other form of life other then a chao it's all speculation.

I hope you guys enjoyed my theories and what I would have done differently with the Emeralds, Forms, and Magic. I DO have an idea of a hierarchy of Super Forms and how the Source of All works but I'll save that for later, let me know what you guys think and tell me if you're interested in my Super Form Hierarchy and Source of All theories!

 

[TheRedStranger]

I'm back saying what I would do differently, sorry I went off at a tangent there with STC, it just happened out of nowhere. As for Red talking about Older Sonic Fans, I can say I'm a true old school fan but I haven't actually gotten into the community until about a year or two ago for, well obvious reasons. I like the comics myself but around after 100 and until 160 most of it sucked, not all of it but we all know why. As for the games I love Generations and as for Episode 1 and 2 it's okay, EP2 is a lot better though. I would not agree with Red that the classic Sonic games are as buggy as say EP2 but there are minor flaws and I've never ran into any bad glitches myself. Anyway back to the real purpose of this topic...

 

What about the mechanics of the Master Emerald, Chaos Emeralds, Magic, and/or "going super"? What would you guys change about that?

 

There really isn't much I'd change with the Mechanics of our favorite artifacts. I would have a consistent name for the Super forms (Super Sonic, Super Tails, Super Knuckles, etc.) rather then Super, Hyper, Turbo whatever. They do sound good but when you introduce another level of power (Ultra Sonic and Hyper Tails) THEN the names get convoluted. For Super Forms I'd have only 2 or 3, The Super Form that requires using 7 Chaos Emeralds or by getting a Million Rings (if that whole Billion Rings thing for Ultra Sonic is in effect why not turn Super with a Millionth Ring or something?), The Hyper Form that uses 1 or 7 Super Emeralds or by getting a Billion Rings, and finally as some kind of extra form should they end the series or something with an Ultra Form that requires all 7 Super Emeralds (and maybe the Master Emerald) or by getting a Trillion Rings. That's how I'd do it for the Super Forms, I never really got the Ultra Form Sonic has in the comic, personally I'd rather have them use Hyper Sonic if anything else, if they wanted to give that form elemental control too I wouldn't have minded since in S3&K there is a Fire, Water, and Lightning Shield, I always thought that Ultra Sonic's elemental control was a call back to Hyper and the Element Shields anyway.

 

I don't have a problem with how the emeralds worked in the Archie Comic either, nothing at all really. It would have been cool for there to always be a Master Emerald like in the games but as S&K didn't come out yet at the time I understand why they had 1 Chaos Emerald keeping the island floating, hell they did the same thing in STC too and that was cool. I would have had the Emeralds Multicolored like in the Games (and most of STC's run) though, that's just me but later during Tossed In Space and ADAM's attack we got to see all the other colored emeralds. The way I would have worked the Multicolored Emeralds is that there are multiple emeralds all over the Zone (Mobius and Space), they may be in a different shape then normal and possibly change there appearance after they are used (to explain why the emeralds looked differently during SA1 and Over). Collecting all 7 different emeralds allows you access to their true power, as each emerald are equally powerful their wavelengths (or something) are different, therefore if you collected the emeralds but had one that is the same color or ALL of them the same color there would be disastrous side effects, this also applies if you try to unlock the full power of the emeralds without collecting 7, if you miss even one and try to use them to go super it would not end well (think Tossed In Space with the 6 Red Emeralds or STC for example, hell Enerjak could work too as an example). You CAN use one or more emeralds for like stronger attacks or something but NOT to tap into their full power, you understand what I mean right? Now the Super Emeralds can be a little tricky, I have two ways they can work. The first is the Archie Sonic way where you can turn Hyper by using 1 Super Emerald, and with each S.E. the form becomes stronger, collecting all 7 will make you invincible OR if you want to work a 3rd form in, by getting them all it would allow you to ascend in an Ultra Form. The Second way is the Sega Sonic way, use 7 C.E. equals Super Sonic, use 7 S.E. equals Hyper Sonic, that's about it. But if you want to work in another form add the M.E. into the mix. Also none of that 7 Server Chao equals 7 Super Emeralds as that's just too convoluted, I'd have it like in S3&K where the M.E. turns the Chaos Emeralds into Super Emeralds. And right now I've had enough of Emeralds for awhile.

 

Now Magic and Ixis Magic on the other hand is something fans are completely confused with, and I can't blame them. But I do have a theory that possibly explains how it works. All energy and life comes from Chaos Energy, Humans, Mobians, whatever. Now Magic is related to Chaos BUT is different in a few ways, for one it uses the energy of the user, planet, just about everything. Now while Chaos Energy is the Source of everything, that doesn't mean it stays that way, it turns and changes so that the energy becomes a life of it's own and does not need Chaos Energy to survive anymore. That's why other beings and gods (such as Solaris for example) exist. Magic uses this Mana Energy (as we'll call it) to do pretty much anything the user wants as long as it follows the laws of physics in the Zone they are on, some are able to bend those laws but only a very few are powerful enough to do so. Ixis Magic pretty much works the same way, as it seems that Mogul (by taping into his Emerald) was able to find Mana Energy and master it more or less. This is why he was able to teach others how to use his own brand of Magic, the only difference between Ixis Magic and other Magic users is the way they use it. Ixis Magic is from Mogul's teachings while other kinds of Magic are from other teachings and sources. But it IS possible that Ixis Magic also scarcely taps into Chaos Energy and thus uses BOTH Chaos and Mana Energy, but I'll just leave that up to you to decide, I hope my theory makes much more sense of things in the comic.
 

One more thing I can point out is how Knuckles Chaos Form might work, as that form ALSO raises questions. This form (as we know) results from a natural connection to Chaos Energy itself, pure and from the source with no need of any Emeralds. Thankfully for Mobius, Knuckles was (and possibly still is) the only one that can reach this state. It's obvious that it's the most powerful first form in the comic, no questions there, but it could be possible that a Hyper form could match it in power, who knows. I do have a theory though, Knux Chaos form (Green Knuckles) was only the 1st phase of this Pure Chaos form, with each phase the user looks more like a Chaos Creature (like Chaos) until the user BECOMES a Chaos Creature (my guess is that it's a 3 to 4 phase process). That doesn't mean the newly formed being would be made out of water, knowing Knuckles he could be made out of Earth/Magma or Lightning for all we know, but that's just my assumption. But if that's the case shouldn't Chaos (from SA) be more powerful then Chaos Knuckles you ask? Well no, I mean considering Chaos was once a chao that ended up as a Chaos Creature, it might be possible that his form without Chaos Emeralds is what happens after the user reaches his Final Phase and then uses up nearly all of it's internal Chaos Energy it was given, thus ending up in a form similar to Chaos 0. Since that's the case, if a user keeps evolving in the Pure Chaos State past the 2nd Phase THEY CANNOT GO BACK TO NORMAL, they end up like Chaos 0, but considering this has never happened to any other form of life other then a chao it's all speculation.

I hope you guys enjoyed my theories and what I would have done differently with the Emeralds, Forms, and Magic. I DO have an idea of a hierarchy of Super Forms and how the Source of All works but I'll save that for later, let me know what you guys think and tell me if you're interested in my Super Form Hierarchy and Source of All theories!

 

 

Speak! I wish to hear more.

[Mike Arcade]

Hahahaha! I knew I'd get a response, finally!

Well I suppose I can start off with the Chaos Forms, take note that I'm also pulling certain forms from STC and Sonic X into the mix, since there is a Sonic X Zone in the Archie Sonic Universe this form could POSSIBLY happen in the comic, the STC form in question is here for completions sake. Here we go!
 

Chaos, as you all know, is the infinite source of energy and life in the Worlds of Sonic The Hedgehog, which spawned off several forms of life, other types of energy, and even the gods themselves. Should a mortal being tap into this source of energy they are given great power if they are naturally adapt to it. Under certain conditions it takes form in different ways, the forms I am listing applies to Mobians and possibly Humans as well, other forms of life may differ such as aliens. Each form of Chaos differs from the user depending on how their Core (soul) works, be that Negative or Positive energy, these are the forms that are known to ancient beings, gods, and life forms that exist in Zones unknown even to The No Zone.
 

Chaos Light Forms
The user is able to use the positive energy of Chaos through the emeralds, allowing them greater strength, near invulnerability, and enhancing the user's natural abilities. There are 3 recorded forms of Light birthed from Chaos, they are as followed. 
 

Super Form: The default and 1st form of Light, you all know this one well enough, the user has the power of a demigod more or less, thus one or multiple users under this form could take down a demigod or a full god if said god is corrupted or filled with negative energy. The traits of this form are different for each user, bright colored eyes and hair (and/or fur) are the usual traits for this form.

Hyper Form: The 2nd and rarely seen form of Light, it is gained by using all the emeralds while they are awaken by the controller. The user is even stronger in this state and could even be mistaken for a god. Not only is the user's power even greater, but they are also able to use new abilities and may even be able to naturally control certain elements even if they are untrained to do so. Those untrained usually can only use 3 elements however. The traits of this form are brighter colors, sometime multiple colors with the eyes usually the same color as the users hair.

 

Ultra Form: The 3rd and mythical form of Light, it is unknown just HOW it is obtained or If it's even possible, some say that you need both the controller and the emeralds, others say that you must have a strong enough will to awaken it, scholars say both previous theories are required. It is unknown if it has ever been obtained let alone seen before. Should this form be possible, they would have the power of a Titan and able to do nearly anything, possibly even resurrect the dead. But such tales are only in scriptures...aren't they? It is unknown what appearance this form has, but I can guess that the user is even brighter then before with colors signifying good and holy traits, tales state that mutations arise during this form but no one really knows. It should also be noted that a Chaos User in the Prime Zone of our world has apparently obtained this state, but through observation we discovered that the user's "Ultra" form is nothing more then a weaker Hyper Form using 1 Super Emerald or through collecting a Billion Rings.
 

Chaos Dark Forms

The user is WILLINGLY using the emeralds to cause harm to others for whatever reason, be that vengeance, jealousy, or to even protect loved ones. The user is giving into his or her darker desires and through the emeralds turn into these forms, it is also said that it is obtained by using imperfect Artificial Emeralds, such cases have also been recorded.

 

Dark (Super) Form: 1st and Default Dark Form, the user is letting himself use his negative emotions to harness the emeralds power, thus this form is a result. Very Rare Cases state that a user who has entered this form once is able to do so again WITHOUT using the emeralds, however it is said that this trait only applies those who are adapt users of Chaos Energy, however that is pure speculation. The user symptoms are darker colors, mostly black and a dark colored aura, most noticeable is that the user's irises disappear. 

 

Evil (Dark Hyper) Form: 2nd and Very Rare Dark Form, the user is letting himself become consumed with these desires and are using the Super Emeralds in order to do so. Only two recorded cases of this has happened, the aftermath of both incidents resulted in dozens to hundreds dead. After obtaining the users, further observation has shown that the user's personality has changed after the transformation. Such changes are aggression, indifference, and easily prone to violence. With training, withdrawal, and therapy 1 of the users is making a successful recovery, the other user however has since been placed in an asylum. Symptoms of this form are similar to the 1st, with a different colored aura, an even darker color for the users hair, and strange mutations such as irregular hair/fur length. In one of the users it is said that horns started to form on his head.

 

Oni (Dark Ultra) Form: 3rd and Mythical Dark Form, much like the Ultra Form it is only in myths and tales. From what we can gather the user has let himself completely be consumed by Negative Chaos Energy, resulting in a form that has only been described in stories as Demonic, with several mutations such as Reptilian Wings, Horns, among other things. Most noticeably is that the eyes have a Dark Color to them, with the irises usually missing, but under scripture it is said that the irises of an Oni is lizard like. One story states that the user after the form was never the same, what that means is up for interpretation but it's safe to say that it completely corrupts the user with no hope of recovery. All precautions are taken so that no user reaches such a form, which is why training for Chaos Users is so difficult, most say such a form is an old wives tale, but you can never be too careful...

 

Chaos Demon Forms

A Rare Phenomenon, but taken seriously nonetheless, the user has been unwillingly exposed to negative chaos energy, though this does not always happen a Demon Form may arise as the end result. When this happens it appears that a Light form is taking place, but that is not the case. The Demon Form is a sentient being formed by the user's repressed, darker emotions, creating a monster that has no remorse or good will. Most noticeably is that in one zone the emeralds were used as a syphon to absorb negative energy, and when it was unstable it hit a user, causing this form. Those who are cursed with this form are always fighting for their very lives and those around them, as the Demon can show up anytime Chaos Energy is around the user or during extreme stress. It cannot be destroyed by normal means unless the Demon is extracted from the users body and drained of all it's Chaos Energy, that is the only way to kill a Chaos Demon.

1st Demon (Super) Form: A Chaos Demon is born out of a user exposed to Negative Energy against their will. A common trait for a Chaos Demon is a pure hatred for his counterpart and everyone his alter ego is associated with, thus with what short time the Demon has it likes to destroy anything it can that the user holds dear. However it is very provocative and will destroy whoever is in it's way or if it's attacked. Among the normal powers of the Light and Dark Forms, the Demon is able to naturally control Chaos Energy much easier if said user is untrained, such as firing beams from it's eyes. Though the traits of the Demon are similar to the appearance of a Light Form, The Demon looks more erratic with the teeth turning into sharp fangs, most noticeably is that the irises of the eyes have this hypnotic swirl to them. Another thing to note is that the Demon sometimes has an aura around it, some cases show that a Demon is surrounded by an element, some say the Demon itself can barely control it's own energy.
 

2nd Demon (Hyper) Form: For some reason, a Chaos Demon has SOMEHOW managed to reach Super Emeralds! Who in their right mind allowed this to happen is beyond me. There is only one recorded incident where this happened, the end result was the complete destruction of the zone and all life in it. When this happened all gateways were shut and nothing could get in or out of the Zone, the demon eventually died when it ran out of energy to absorb, after that the user soon followed as the only thing left was cold space in the zone. A brief glimpse of the Demon was seen before the zone was cut off, it was described as having the appearance of a Hyper Form, with common mutations for a Chaos Demon. One of the viewers said that the Demon looked even more mutated but at what degree is unknown. Not much else is known about it as this has only happened once, which is why we listed the Chaos Demon's forms as 1st Demon and 2nd Demon, or Demon Super and Demon Hyper as the forms are also known as.

 

Final Demon (Ultra) Form: This form is only listed for completions sake, Officially it doesn't exist but considering the possibility of the Ultra and Oni form, as improbable as it is we can't just rule it out. This form must NEVER come into existence, if such a Demon were unleashed no force (sans possibly the Ultra and Oni Form) can stop it. What kind of damage it can do is unknown, but with the Demon Hyper able to take out a whole Zone in less then a month it's best not to think of such things. As such it is unknown what the Final Demon would look like and it is up for pure speculation.

 

Pure Chaos Forms
A Legend that up until recently was only thought as one, this form is obtained when a user has a natural connection to Chaos Energy itself with no need for any emeralds. Under certain conditions the user undergoes this form. While it was only in scripture, a user from the Prime Zone recently reached this form. Even though he died while trying to take out an enemy with all his Energy the user ACTUALLY came back from the dead after being a part of the Chaos Source. Such feats of cheating death are either extremely rare and even then was never done before with Chaos Energy. This observation shows skeptics that Chaos Energy truly has unlimited potential!

 

Phase 1: The user has become a living Chaos Emerald and is able to do many things due to his connection to Chaos itself. It's been said that the user gains an altered state of mine, and may even be unstable. It's theorized that this form enhances ALL emotions and thoughts of the user, but it is not entirely clear. From looking at this form the User is as powerful as The Hyper Form, maybe even a little more...but that's up for debate. The user appears to be in only one color, it could vary for each user much like other forms
 

Phase 2: The scriptures state that should the user reach enlightenment (Phase 1), the user will begin to become one with Chaos. While these scriptures were long thought to be myth, it doesn't hurt to see what they say about this form. Apparently the user begins to mutate and take traits from a Chaos Creature, the natural defense of the emeralds. The mutation starts with the users limbs becoming more like the creature, with a Chaos Creature's Horn (or Horns) coming out of the user. It seems that the user starts to enter a feral state after this but it is unclear what happens next as the text that follows so far has yet to be translated. The users eyes become a pure color with no irises, even the teeth start to look more like a transformed Chaos Creature's.

Final Phase: "After the user absorbs the controller, the wielder begins to forever be with chaos." It seems like this phase is the final step in evolution for this form, the user before entering this phase becomes a pure Chaos Creature, following that the only desire that the user now has is to absorb the controller, once that happens...well that's all the text we can find, the rest of the scriptures say what happens after the user succeeds or fails but nothing about what happens in the middle. Anti Climatic I know, but the search remains for those texts and that's about it. I can only imagine what happens, but perhaps it's better that way...

 

Phase 0: Technically Phase 3 but considering this has more to do with the aftermath of the "event" we decided to add this in at the end. After...whatever happens, the user becomes a Chaos Creature. That's about it actually, it states that it will "guard the controller for all time" something, something, you get the idea. While Chao are regular pets and Natural Chaos Creatures are rare it is surprising that the scriptures state that a user can BECOME one! Everything else is up for speculation, but should a user EVER enter Phase 1 or 2 we advice the user to NOT enter the "3rd" and Final Phase as according to the scriptures THERE IS NO GOING BACK. Some have tried to turn Chaos Creatures back into Chao but all attempts to do so have failed so far. While we were expecting amazing discoveries when we found these scriptures, none of us could have imagined what we have found!

 

We are discovering new things about Chaos Energy everyday, the possibilities are truly endless but also VERY dangerous, while text is still being translated we are always one step closer to uncovering all the secrets of Chaos. Recently we have found texts saying "Omni" and "Devil" but those are most likely alternate names for the forms we have scientifically proven to be the absolute evolution in Chaos for Sentient Life, as many cultures give names to different forms. We thank you for watching this presentation, and have a good day!

 

...WOW That went on for FAR TOO LONG, I'm gonna need a break before I talk about The Source of All, until next time.
 

[Uncle Ben]

 

See the thing i see is that the older fans usually get along with others better than the newer generation

That's a lie and a half.  The oldest Sonic fans (The Pure Genesis Sonic Fans) are complete jerks.  If it isn't The original 2D games, it is bad.  The comics, cartoons, Modern games, all of it is bad.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  And if you disagree it's because you're too young and stupid to know what good gaming is.  

 

Every group in the Sonic Fandom are jerks.  Because if it isn't the part their pet favorite Sonic it's terrible.  Not to pick on Uncle Ben but he's a good example: 

He hates everything in the comic past issue 130 (or was it 134, meh.  Details).  Because he doesn't like the new direction.  But can you honestly tell me that there wasn't a single good issue in the following 100+ issues?  No matter what people say he expects the worst. (Again not to pick on Ben, he's really cool.)

 

I can even use myself as an example:

I hate Sonic Generations.  I would play Sonic '06 over Anytime.  Why?  Because the game's story was garbage and game itself was too short, being artificially lengthened by these boring and sometimes frustrating mini-game-levels that were required to continue.  I feel the game is better as a test demo showing they can still make good gameplay in Sonic rather than an actual game.  And I don't understand why people praise it for being such a good game. 

At the same time I don't understand why everyone praises Sonic 2 as the best game.  Taking advice from other people that Sonic 4's physics Engine is garbage compared to Sonic 2 I went back and played some Sonic 2.  I can't tell you how many times I died from cheap deaths or small bugs in the physics engine.  It isn't perfect.  Comparatively speaking, both Physics engines are equally bad.  It just depends on your preference of Sonic play style (Do you like the Classic Games, or the Advance/Rush Games?).  Personally I have more fun playing the Adventure/Rush games so I like the physics in Sonic 4 Episode 2 (I don't have Episode 1 so....), and quite frankly I don't like how everyone seem to think that the Genesis Games could do no wrong, while the newer games flaws are always pointed out. (I'm mean you probably coulda guessed it from how I started this thing ).

 

Now I'm not saying every individual fan is a terrible "Butt"face.  However Not a single group of fans are better than another.  Older, newer, synthetic, doesn't matter. Trust me, even Sonic SatAM has a few stinker/awkward moments that we tend to overlook because it's our favorite.  

 

 

 

 

Ohp, Ben mentioned romance, now I feel we're obliged to talk about the ever akward subject.

 

What do you think was corny and how could they make it more beliveable, impacting, and less smaltzy.

Considering the comic is updated on a monthly basis, I don't really think there is a problem with the romances.  To go any deeper and make things more complex or meaningful would distract from the adventure and the other story or seem to drag on for being to long.  But do any less would make the romances a bit pointless and characters would lose a lot of their appeal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I believe the romances could be improved, I just don't think it needs to be at the moment. 

 

Though they could tone down on the long winded Love Triangles.  Ever since Geoffrey showed up there has been some love triangle going on.  I'd rather focus on another aspect of the characters' relationships rather than other options.

 

Though I also don't blame them for sticking with the love triangles as the one other time they tried to add drama in a relationship ended up with fans enraged (the slap). 

 

 

Actually its more or less a Pentagon.... or some crazy shape.

 

You got this: Sonic----> Sally

 

Khan <------- Sally --------> Sonic

 

Amy -------> Sonic

 

Geoffrey -----/-----> Sally (was there until Hershey came along)

 

 

....it's still called a love triangle.  

 

 

Several things:

 

1) Older fans are reasonable, i know the Genesis-era tend to be the biggest jerks yes but some of the older comic fans i talk to are reasonable

 

2) 134 Red, known as "The Slap." I guess i wasnt clear  the 100+ issues since then have been ranging from good and bad but to say i hate the comic since 134 is a little over exadurated. Penders' era was okay. Bollers was terrible (though he did save himself a bit... but the damage was done) Flynn started out rather good but the new direction as of the past 2 years has made me throw a red flag up. I'll admit that ES Part 1 has been my favorite so far in the past year or so cause it had a good plot and a good start (until the lawsuit screwed it up). Iron Dominion was a good arc, there were some good arcs in the time but i dont mention them much. I realize i have been rather tough and seem "hateful" of the comic as of late but the uncertainity of what the crap is going on and what will happen is that has put me on edge. All i really want to do is give Flynn Constructive critism from someone who wants to mix the newer gen (Tails, Amy, SegaSonic characters) with the older gen (Sally, Rotor, comic cast) (though older gen has a slight priority cause this is the only thing they are and sadly will ever be in at this point) in a way that most comic fans could enjoy. Do i hate the comic? Not really, yes there are parts that make me wanna dropkick someone but at the same time i keep getting the comic every month. Why would i keep getting it if i hate it? Little redundant right? And expecting the worst? I'm assuming thats from the other day where i said dont get next months issue. I'll admit i over reacted a bit seeing the preview pages (and lack of sleep) and expecting the worst. I shouldnt have but i did all cause of the unncertainty thats happening right now

 

3) Called a love triangle but its more or less a square or a paraellagram

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

See the thing i see is that the older fans usually get along with others better than the newer generation

That's a lie and a half.  The oldest Sonic fans (The Pure Genesis Sonic Fans) are complete jerks.  If it isn't The original 2D games, it is bad.  The comics, cartoons, Modern games, all of it is bad.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  And if you disagree it's because you're too young and stupid to know what good gaming is.  

 

Every group in the Sonic Fandom are jerks.  Because if it isn't the part their pet favorite Sonic it's terrible.  Not to pick on Uncle Ben but he's a good example: 

He hates everything in the comic past issue 130 (or was it 134, meh.  Details).  Because he doesn't like the new direction.  But can you honestly tell me that there wasn't a single good issue in the following 100+ issues?  No matter what people say he expects the worst. (Again not to pick on Ben, he's really cool.)

 

I can even use myself as an example:

I hate Sonic Generations.  I would play Sonic '06 over Anytime.  Why?  Because the game's story was garbage and game itself was too short, being artificially lengthened by these boring and sometimes frustrating mini-game-levels that were required to continue.  I feel the game is better as a test demo showing they can still make good gameplay in Sonic rather than an actual game.  And I don't understand why people praise it for being such a good game. 

At the same time I don't understand why everyone praises Sonic 2 as the best game.  Taking advice from other people that Sonic 4's physics Engine is garbage compared to Sonic 2 I went back and played some Sonic 2.  I can't tell you how many times I died from cheap deaths or small bugs in the physics engine.  It isn't perfect.  Comparatively speaking, both Physics engines are equally bad.  It just depends on your preference of Sonic play style (Do you like the Classic Games, or the Advance/Rush Games?).  Personally I have more fun playing the Adventure/Rush games so I like the physics in Sonic 4 Episode 2 (I don't have Episode 1 so....), and quite frankly I don't like how everyone seem to think that the Genesis Games could do no wrong, while the newer games flaws are always pointed out. (I'm mean you probably coulda guessed it from how I started this thing ).

 

Now I'm not saying every individual fan is a terrible "Butt"face.  However Not a single group of fans are better than another.  Older, newer, synthetic, doesn't matter. Trust me, even Sonic SatAM has a few stinker/awkward moments that we tend to overlook because it's our favorite.  

 

 

 

 

Ohp, Ben mentioned romance, now I feel we're obliged to talk about the ever akward subject.

 

What do you think was corny and how could they make it more beliveable, impacting, and less smaltzy.

Considering the comic is updated on a monthly basis, I don't really think there is a problem with the romances.  To go any deeper and make things more complex or meaningful would distract from the adventure and the other story or seem to drag on for being to long.  But do any less would make the romances a bit pointless and characters would lose a lot of their appeal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I believe the romances could be improved, I just don't think it needs to be at the moment. 

 

Though they could tone down on the long winded Love Triangles.  Ever since Geoffrey showed up there has been some love triangle going on.  I'd rather focus on another aspect of the characters' relationships rather than other options.

 

Though I also don't blame them for sticking with the love triangles as the one other time they tried to add drama in a relationship ended up with fans enraged (the slap). 

 

 

Actually its more or less a Pentagon.... or some crazy shape.

 

You got this: Sonic----> Sally

 

Khan <------- Sally --------> Sonic

 

Amy -------> Sonic

 

Geoffrey -----/-----> Sally (was there until Hershey came along)

 

 

....it's still called a love triangle.  

 

 

Several things:

 

1) Older fans are reasonable, i know the Genesis-era tend to be the biggest jerks yes but some of the older comic fans i talk to are reasonable

 

2) 134 Red, known as "The Slap." I guess i wasnt clear  the 100+ issues since then have been ranging from good and bad but to say i hate the comic since 134 is a little over exadurated. Penders' era was okay. Bollers was terrible (though he did save himself a bit... but the damage was done) Flynn started out rather good but the new direction as of the past 2 years has made me throw a red flag up. I'll admit that ES Part 1 has been my favorite so far in the past year or so cause it had a good plot and a good start (until the lawsuit screwed it up). Iron Dominion was a good arc, there were some good arcs in the time but i dont mention them much. I realize i have been rather tough and seem "hateful" of the comic as of late but the uncertainity of what the crap is going on and what will happen is that has put me on edge. All i really want to do is give Flynn Constructive critism from someone who wants to mix the newer gen (Tails, Amy, SegaSonic characters) with the older gen (Sally, Rotor, comic cast) (though older gen has a slight priority cause this is the only thing they are and sadly will ever be in at this point) in a way that most comic fans could enjoy. Do i hate the comic? Not really, yes there are parts that make me wanna dropkick someone but at the same time i keep getting the comic every month. Why would i keep getting it if i hate it? Little redundant right? And expecting the worst? I'm assuming thats from the other day where i said dont get next months issue. I'll admit i over reacted a bit seeing the preview pages (and lack of sleep) and expecting the worst. I shouldnt have but i did all cause of the unncertainty thats happening right now

 

3) Called a love triangle but its more or less a square or a paraellagram

 

 

This is all about rewriting....hm, I wonder how you (and others) would rewrite "The Slap". 

[Uncle Ben]

Sally deserved to be upset, but to slap him was a step to far. I would've had Sally berate him and explain how she needs him and he still says no i would have had her walk of crying. Physical violence was not need.

[Mike Arcade]

Funny you should mention "the slap" Stranger, as I actually made a post on how I would have done it differently in the beginning of page 3, it was a quick after though but I'd recommend you check it out, also I'll have that Source of All theory down here in a little bit.

[RedAuthar]

Sally deserved to be upset, but to slap him was a step to far. I would've had Sally berate him and explain how she needs him and he still says no i would have had her walk of crying. Physical violence was not need.

This is where I disagree.  

 

1) Sally seems more in control of her emotions.  Remember for the last couple issues they've been portraying Sally as a bit emotionally unstable (crying at Sonic's grave, Panicking when he got hurt, etc).  This was an infamous moment to show Sally can be weak and vulnerable as well, showing her able to be in control of her emotions while everything seems to be going wrong, would make her seem more Mary-Sue-ish and more boring as she seems to always have a handle on the situation.  Actually I'm upset they didn't follow through with Max putting someone else in charge of the Kingdom while he was away.  It would have been a great character development arc. 

 

2) Let's remember the age group of our characters here:  Currently Sally is established as 17 years old.  Since there hasn't been any birthday issues it's safe to assume that Sally was 17 at the time.  Most Teenagers take Break-ups hard.  Having Sally take it "rather well" by being only hurt and being polite about it, makes her seem too grown up.  Part of the appeal of the Freedom Fighters is they were a group of Teens, having teenager problems as well as the adult level decisions and wars to deal with.  To not do something a teenager would do (make stupid decisions and expect everyone to think they're right) once again makes her more boring and seem like she can't make any mistakes.  

 

Now I'm not saying the slap was a good idea or that it was Archie's best option.  However, when the rest of the world seem to hate Sally for being too Mary-Sue-ish, making no mistakes, and acting much older than she actually is, I can see what Archie was trying to do there, and I don't think I could have done it better.  

 

I think what needed to change was the follow-up, having her hit a depressed stage then realize her mistake and apologize.  Instead Sonic and Sally seem to just hold a grudge against each other and then forget it every happened, making the scene not just awkward but pointless.  

[TheRedStranger]

 

Sally deserved to be upset, but to slap him was a step to far. I would've had Sally berate him and explain how she needs him and he still says no i would have had her walk of crying. Physical violence was not need.

This is where I disagree.  

 

1) Sally seems more in control of her emotions.  Remember for the last couple issues they've been portraying Sally as a bit emotionally unstable (crying at Sonic's grave, Panicking when he got hurt, etc).  This was an infamous moment to show Sally can be weak and vulnerable as well, showing her able to be in control of her emotions while everything seems to be going wrong, would make her seem more Mary-Sue-ish and more boring as she seems to always have a handle on the situation.  Actually I'm upset they didn't follow through with Max putting someone else in charge of the Kingdom while he was away.  It would have been a great character development arc. 

 

2) Let's remember the age group of our characters here:  Currently Sally is established as 17 years old.  Since there hasn't been any birthday issues it's safe to assume that Sally was 17 at the time.  Most Teenagers take Break-ups hard.  Having Sally take it "rather well" by being only hurt and being polite about it, makes her seem too grown up.  Part of the appeal of the Freedom Fighters is they were a group of Teens, having teenager problems as well as the adult level decisions and wars to deal with.  To not do something a teenager would do (make stupid decisions and expect everyone to think they're right) once again makes her more boring and seem like she can't make any mistakes.  

 

Now I'm not saying the slap was a good idea or that it was Archie's best option.  However, when the rest of the world seem to hate Sally for being too Mary-Sue-ish, making no mistakes, and acting much older than she actually is, I can see what Archie was trying to do there, and I don't think I could have done it better.  

 

I think what needed to change was the follow-up, having her hit a depressed stage then realize her mistake and apologize.  Instead Sonic and Sally seem to just hold a grudge against each other and then forget it every happened, making the scene not just awkward but pointless.  

 

 

 Alas, another question stowaways in our awnsers. The question of Sally on that exact issue, her of being "Mary-Sue-ish". Opinions? Critiques? But most imporatntly, what could be done to make it better?

[RedAuthar]

I don't believe she is.  However she does tend to lean on the lucky side and things tend to go her way and she tends not to make mistakes.  

 

Now the reason for this is because she quadruple checks her work, plans very carefully, and Sonic tends to save the day anyways.  Read the comic or watch the show you'll see she makes mistakes, has her own problems, and is very much not a Mary Sue. 

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 Alas, another question stowaways in our awnsers. The question of Sally on that exact issue, her of being "Mary-Sue-ish". Opinions? Critiques? But most imporatntly, what could be done to make it better?

 

 

To be perfectly honest, I've never seen Sally as being a Mary-Sue, but I can see where some people might.

 

The problem with the character lies in that she was designed as having 2 main "duties": 1.- The leader of the Freedom Fighters and the free people of Mobius and 2.- The girlfriend of the main character: Sonic.

Now, when King Max and later Elias came into the picture that essentually removed her first duty, and with Sega's mandates she was no longer able to be with Sonic long-term. So in my opinion it in essence gutted the character; as much as I hate to say it Penders was probably right in killing her off in endgame; since then it seems to me like they've been trying to make the character fit in the stories; basically she just floats about.

It really wasn't until the Iron Dominion arc that I think she was back to true form; actually the 214 and 215 arc is one of my favourite stories with Sally in it.

 

 

 Let's discuss that arc then. In your eyes, how did it show she was not a Mary-Sue. What elements brought her character back out into the foreground? And how these elements can be applied in future works?

[TheRedStranger]

 

I don't believe she is.  However she does tend to lean on the lucky side and things tend to go her way and she tends not to make mistakes.  

 

Now the reason for this is because she quadruple checks her work, plans very carefully, and Sonic tends to save the day anyways.  Read the comic or watch the show you'll see she makes mistakes, has her own problems, and is very much not a Mary Sue. 

 

Totally agree, it's weird how people just miss all of her mistakes.

One of my favourites was when she chastised Sonic for jumping off the floating island in Blast to the Past, but then later on she has him shoot up the sliding tree to get aboard the destroyer not thinking about how they would land; she then begs for Sonic to think of something and he uses the anti gravity in his shoes to keep them from being killed, but that's in SatAM, not the comic.

 

 

 Sonic and Sally are as similar as they are different. For all their differing good qualities, they are still both headstrong, bold, wisecracking snarks with a bit of an ego. Due to their positions that gets expressed diffrently among them, but it is still there. Another example is when Sonic saved the Freedom Stormer, Sally wanted to refuse and deny that she needed Sonic and Sonic refused to let her get away with it (the "we were in a plane"/ but "where would you land?" argument). Both of them wanted to show they had the guts and the glory to keep the situation in check, but in the end Sally had to admit Sonic had indeed saved them from a bad flub.

 

 Dude, I'd be with Sonic on this one...nobody would get me on that crapsack "air-jaloppy". I'll take the ole ground transport. 

[Mike Arcade]

How I would have handled Sally Acorn in the comic? CHALLENGED ACCEPTED.

 

Hmm, there isn't TOO much that I would do with Sally differently then in SatAM and in the Comic, but I would like it if her flaws were shown more often. Now that's not to say up until # 134 she was Mary Sue perfect, that's not the case. Sally is a good leader, smart, all that junk, but while she tries to keep a cool head she's really unsure of herself, can be really hard headed (she always wants to prove that she is right), and is easily frustrated (she kicked a few people out of knothole in the earlier issues). She does tend to rely more on her friends (emotionally) at times and can be prone to rare outbursts, I think if such traits were shown more often in the comic then such things like "the slap" would have happed MUCH differently. I'm basically going the Nigel Kitching style of writing Sally here, that is giving Sally both the good traits we have known her to have and then countering with flaws. Granted she DOES have those flaws in the Comic but they were not well defined enough. During Bollers run, Sally is more "emotional" and when it comes to her royal duties (such as the arranged marriage of Patch) she seems more submissive in a way, which is really disjointing when you read the comic up until that point, and that was only because Bollers was trying to make Amy into the new Sally which I have already stated in a previous post. I mean for some arranged marriage plot I could maybe buy it if she feels like she has no options, or if she's unconsciously still angry at Sonic and realizes it and is all confused...something, but other then that it was kind of a mess. Hell you guys have made a lot of good points on how Sally should be treated, and to be honest the way Ian brought her back into form was really good. Having that badass moment with the council made me say "YES, THAT's Sally Acorn!".  There's not much else I can say about her, I do like the character and it sucks when writers tried to downplay her because they don't know how to handle her. I hope my view on Sally Acorn can help writers of the comic in the future as a recommended guideline on how Sally should work (but I think Ian writes Sally just right). As for the romances and all that, to be honest if you want that go ahead but as long as it doesn't weaken the character (like in "the slap") go for it.

Speaking of Acorns...how about I finally talk about the Source of All...RIGHT NOW.

 

The Source of All is said to be "an omnipotent and sentient substance that created the universe and supplies all the cosmic matter necessary to create the base material for life and everything else. The Source, as a result, exists in everyone and everything in the universe". Wow, that's a lot to take in, such words can only lead me to say one thing, WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT. I mean according to my theories, wouldn't Chaos Energy be the substance that created everything? If that's the case then what...or who is the "Source of All"? The Source is powerful, it might be nearly omnipotent, and I'm pretty damn sure it's omnispective. But that doesn't mean we all have this gold milk (censoring myself here) in all of us. But the biggest damning evidence on this thing is one BIG plot hole in the comics, if the Source was so powerful that it literally shows a person's future why didn't Max ever know about Julian's Coup? Answer me that, for god's sake he had not only 1 but 3 DIFFERENT guys all out to betray him (Naugus and Kodos)!!! NOT ONLY THAT, but Max HAD to have had regular contact with the Source, it SHOULD have told him that...but it didn't...King Max didn't have 3 traitors...he had 4 and it tricked not only him but his ancestors for YEARS into worshiping it as a GOD. That's right, the "Source" was a corrupt being since the very beginning, it's not hard to image that it would have used Naugus the same way it used Max, Naugus THOUGHT that he corrupted it under his will but according to my theory he wasn't REALLY in control the whole time, and ANY time it wanted to it would make it the other way around. You know, come to think of it in our world we don't have any kind of recorded phrase of "Source of All", but there is only one thing that sounds similar to it...and that is "Root OF ALL Evil". This raises a lot of questions, but namely one, what is it? Is it some kind of being that was spawned from Chaos and is now trying to Absorb and become the only type of matter in the universe? Is it a fallen, dark deity that is in a weakened state and is now trying to resurrect itself? It could be all of those things, but one thing is for sure, IT IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED OR WORSHIPPED. After all "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.".

That's all I have for now sadly, thanks for posting another challenge Strange, I'm always ready for another! As for my Source Theory, I'm sticking with it. Yes, if this was true it would mean everything that was said about it was a great lie, and that's BRILLANT. That would be a HUGE twist that people will say they should have saw coming but overlooked it when they really thought about it. After all, it makes a lot more sense then having golden goo inside each and everyone of us now doesn't it?