206 replies to this topic

[TheRedStranger]

 As in fo

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I find the earlier issues overbearingly embarrassing. I mean, SatAM was nowhere near perfect (there are tons of problems which most fans of the series ignore), but it still managed to create an interesting world with memorable characters, a exciting atmosphere, and tons of adventure that won lots of fans over. On the other hand, the comics around at the time were nothing like the series. They were either too goofy or too serious for a supposed "continuation" of the SatAM series.

 

And while the comics never did reach the same level as the television series, I feel the current depiction is the closest in spirit it ever reached. It's noway similar, but I have just as much fun reading the series as watching the original show.

 

 

The Beginning was okay but they really hit their stride with EndGame up until 125. Granted Flynn has helped the comic rebound but he's alienating a lot of fans

 

 

 Intresting opinion, Ben. How so? And, more impoartantly, how do you think that could that be prevented?

 

 

See i felt EndGame was a great arc and afterwards was great. Sure there were some issues that werent good but after 125 it started to decline. Rock Bottom was 134 and it was difficult getting it back up ther. Bollers was a terrible writer in my honest opinion. Flynn has brought the subscribers back up but at the same time he has alienated fans who have been around for the longest time in favor for the newer generation. Now i understand why hes favoring the newer generation  but theres no need to alienate us

 

 

As in focusing on the Sonamy/Sonic Adventure Era/Sonic X crowds, and forgetting the Sonsal/Satam/ Underground/ Classic Sonic crowds for the sake of marketability?

 

 Due note that I was in the former crowd at 13 (sans the Sonamy mushy-gushy, "weird internet-stuff"; I thought Sonic should have been a free-spirted loner back then)  then I despondently faded out of the fandom during the mid-2000's slump, and finally came back thrice as dedicated when I watched Satam at 20 - there is hope for your vantage point yet, if so. The dividing lines can change.

 

 I actually need to catch up on the comic in the paticular areas you've mentioned. 

[Uncle Ben]

As in focusing on the Sonamy/Sonic Adventure Era/Sonic X crowds, and forgetting the Sonsal/Satam/ Underground/ Classic Sonic crowds for the sake of marketability?

 

 

 

Yes. I understand why. But as i said theres no reason to forget about us. I mean they could easily combine the two

[LogiTeeka]

As in focusing on the Sonamy/Sonic Adventure Era/Sonic X crowds, and forgetting the Sonsal/Satam/ Underground/ Classic Sonic crowds for the sake of marketability?

 

Yes. I understand why. But as i said theres no reason to forget about us. I mean they could easily combine the two

 

And that's precisely what he's trying to do. Unfortunately, classic Sonic fans tend to be the most nit-pickiest and winiest of all Sonic fans. Trying to please them is like presenting them with a cake and hearing them complain about it being sweet.

 

Anyone remember the "green eyes" controversy?

[TheRedStranger]

 

As in focusing on the Sonamy/Sonic Adventure Era/Sonic X crowds, and forgetting the Sonsal/Satam/ Underground/ Classic Sonic crowds for the sake of marketability?

 

 

 

Yes. I understand why. But as i said theres no reason to forget about us. I mean they could easily combine the two

 

 

 I would agree with you.

 

 And I would also agree with LogiTeeka. No matter what, someone is going to complain unproductivly. The "classic" fans should make sensible points and talk about relevant issues and avoid nostagic nitpicks that forget the true spirit of their cuase. The more grounded and reserved our arguments, the more potential to gain ground and be heard.

 

 I know of the green-eyes controversy...it makes me weep for the fandom. If we put all that focus on the story as fans, put all that energy into a positive coresponce, the story-arc's trajectory could be massively diffrent than it is today (probably for the better). 

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 I would agree with you.

 

 And I would also agree with LogiTeeka. No matter what, someone is going to complain unproductivly. The "classic" fans should make sensible points and talk about relevant issues and avoid nostagic nitpicks that forget the true spirit of their cuase. The more grounded and reserved our arguments, the more potential to gain ground and be heard.

 

 I know of the green-eyes controversy...it makes me weep for the fandom. If we put all that focus on the story as fans, put all that energy into a positive coresponce, the story-arc's trajectory could be massively diffrent than it is today (probably for the better). 

 

 

I agree, the classic fans need to be more open to change, but, as someone who has seen his favourite characters be thrown aside for 20 years it's hard to not be nit-picky. Oddly enough I actually like seeing Sonic with green eyes and I love Tails' modern look over his classic one; I think those both added more than it took away.

Recently I've been thinking about writing a fan-fiction in an allegory to Sega wiping the American Sonic cannon out of existence; I think it would be pretty good.

 

 

Ah, meta-fiction, how wonderful you can be! If you can handle subtlty and subtext well within the framework of a good story it can be inspiring!

 

 I started at the Dreamcast...green eyes are all I knew. Even my own take on Sonic is always drawn with them. It's just how a view the character in my mind.

 

 I feel for you, bro. What characters have you seen thrown aside? Which hurts the most for you? And how could you see them blast back in the foreground?

[LogiTeeka]

Over the last 20 years Sega has all but denied the SatAM cast existence, and many probably feel like The Freedom Fighters and Mobius continuality are slowly being erased from their last and only official media.

 

Sega hasn't denied their existence, they just aren't as important.

 

I mean, SatAM barely made it to its 2nd season due to it's lackluster attention. However, the comics are massively successful and Sega's now sees it as a prime attraction for their fans. As long as it's successful, they acknowledge their existence.

 

The reason why the American characters haven't appeared in any games yet is because they're too foreign and not widely known. The games are currently being made in Japan, where Sonic is hardly known as it is and the American canon is vastly different in comparison. Plus, they already have a large cast of characters as it is. Why would they want to add more when they know the fans want less?

[Mike Arcade]

Oh god don't remind me of those "green eyes" idiots!

 

As for the comic as it is now, I've actually been fine with it and like the current run of the comic, minus the missteps due to those legal issues and some flaws, not to mention that Sega and Archie have Ian and the writers in a vice nearly 24/7. I did like all those issues from when Fiona turned, Eggman's fall and rise, the Iron Queen, and so on and so forth, granted some of the stuff was not perfect but it was really enjoyable to me. Yes I did like Genesis and the fall of the Freedom Fighters, it REALLY shook things up and while it DID last a little too long it was pretty good, loved Worlds Collide too! If Sega and Archie after this Legal crap loosen up and let the writers do most of the stuff they want to do I can safely say that the book could be amazing and better then ever before.

But I digress, I mean I can think of a number of things that can improve the book, as well as changing things from the time Bollers and Penders worked together on the book that has (and is) the lowest point of the book, for example.

 

I can understand why Ben doesn't like Fiona as a bad guy, BUT I disagree that she should be good again, at least so soon that is. The problem I can see though is that we haven't seen her enough to show that she can be one of that bads, at the same time she is also one of the most sympathetic villains in the book considering her backstory. She should end up in the middle ground I believe, she can be ruthless but reasonable, I'd call her one of the more saner characters despite the damage. She's the girl that got into the wrong crowd, one of Sonic's biggest mistakes, and she wants payback. Personally I do want this sort of rivalry with Tails, as he realizes that he'll have to fight her, but that he also wants to help and save her, there can be this GREAT back and forth going on between these characters and I can only imagine what could happen. Now I'm not saying that she should be with the kid because that's stupid and he's way too young, but I want them to understand each other, so maybe Fi can learn to finally trust and see Tails as a little brother and friend, well if they weren't enemies that is. I don't know if I would want her to be good again, maybe she can find a middle ground and go solo, or work with a team and be this bounty hunter that at times works with Sonic and co, there really is a LOT you can do with Fiona and I hope we can see what happens.

 

Scourge is a bastard, no doubt about that. He kinda reminds me of Vile from Maverick Hunter X and Bass from Megaman, he just wants to be the best and damn all anyone and anything that gets in his way, the problem with him is that he overlooks a lot of things similar to Sonic. In a way he is sympathetic and at the same time kinda crazy, he goes from showing this sort of respect to his father and at the same time gladly yelling out that he's dead. I gotta know just what the hell happened during Scourge's early days, we NEED to see that because there is a lot they can do with the character. I want to see the guy rise again and fall harder then ever before, almost like the end of Scarface but without him dying. As much as the back and forth between Sonic is pretty good, I think he could use another rival. Call me a broken record and crazy, but the only one I can see filling this role is Tails. You read that right, while Tails does fight to save people and bring freedom he also does it to be like his hero and best friend Sonic, but at the same time to become a hero in his own right. They are polar opposites, but in a way they have this eerily common goal, they BOTH want to be better then Sonic. That and Tails has a good reason to hate Scourge and become his enemy, do I really have to say why because it's pretty damn obvious. If Tails could beat Scourge once, it could be like this rite of passage for the kid in a way and finally be one of the main heroes like Sonic and Knuckles, if Scourge ever lost to him then that could signify the beginning of the end and his biggest downfall to date. I do like the character, I doubt we would ever see him be an anti hero, at least for a LONG time but you never know.

 

Something that I never got was all the hate for Tommy Turtle, the only think I can think of is that he was introduced WAY too late into the run of the book and that (kinda like most of the Penders/Bollers run) he didn't have much of a personality, if at all. I would have had Tommy as a recurring Freedom Fighter that joined in and was found around the beginning to the middle of the comics run, give him the ability to smash stuff like a Koopa or something, and have him more well rounded. Give him a few interesting things about him like a friendly rivalry to Rotor, wanting to prove himself as a Fighter and be best friends with Antoine, something like that. THEN I would kill him off, probably the same way by taking ADAM with him and all that jazz. So...I guess he would be the Johnny Lightfoot of the group then. *shot*

I got one more thing here, and this is a big one, I'd like there to be consequences in the book. As much as Sonic is a hero of sorts, and while he does try and work hard he doesn't do that enough so to speak. I mean he's the reason WHY Fiona is who she is, though he didn't mean for her to end up that way well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Also anyone remember EVE and how she killed BILLIONS, Robotnik did create her but it was Sonic that told her to live her life the way she wanted to or something, technically Sonic is responsible for the deaths of BILLIONS. I'm serious, he even SEES a planet die right in front of him! He's always the hero that keeps on running and never looks back, but no one wonders why, and could you look back on the trail of dead in you're wake? The keywords here that I'd like to see in Sonic's Personal Story Arc is responsibility and consequences. Come to think of it does Tails know WHY Fiona hates Sonic? I don't think so but if he did find out the truth well, I'd say it wouldn't end well, and people say STC Sonic is a jerk. While STC Sonic is a flawed character by design, and a good one at that, unknowingly Archie Sonic is even MORE flawed then his STC counterpart. I want to see Sonic finally stop (metaphorically) and someday come to terms with his actions (and possible mental problems, but that's a theory for another time) and take control, so that in the future Sonic can finally be the Hero of Mobius he was always meant to be.
 

That's all the stuff that I would recommend for the comic and how I would do it, I probably got a lot more but can't think of anything else right now. As flawed as the comic can be I still like it, and while I can understand the complaints over Ian's run, it could have been a LOT worse. Have any of you read Bollers plans for the future of the Sonic Comic at the time, it is some of the stupidest stuff I have ever read, especially his idea for a Sonic Heroes adaption.



 

[LogiTeeka]

I've been a fan since the Genesis (Megadrive), and for the most part I like all of the games that were released on it. For me the biggest slap in the face was seeing Amy Rose being called Sally in Sonic CD. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate the Amy Rose character, but rather hate what she represents, which is Sega's idiotic move away from the universe that I like. In fact ever since I saw SatAM I have quit buying any of the Sonic games brand new as long as they continue to snub them.

 

That wan't them moving away from the canon, it was just a dumb attempt to localize the game. I mean, really? Couldn't they just change the sprites to match the character they were attempting to squeeze in?

 

I guess this explains where Amy developed her color-blindness.

 

I actually I love those old games; I can remember when the original Sonic debuted; it was as big as any game today and it was considered hardcore. It was after Sega exited the console race I remember getting into a discussion with my brother-in-law about the company. I was actually taken aback when he said that it was great that Sega was putting their Sonic games on the Nintendo Gamecube with the rest of the "kiddy games." That was the first time I remember hearing them referred to in such a way; to me none of the games were ever "kiddie games," but evidently that was the case to others.

 

Things we conceive in our childhoods appear to be much more epic than they actually are. Sonic might've had darker depictions, but his common image was that of childrens' character. The same goes for other franchises, like TMNT, Marvel Comics, and tons of others. Each has had darker incarnations over the years, but they're still commonly regarded as childrens shows.

 

I mean, let's get down to it. Not many adults are gonna take a spiky, blue re-color of Mickey Mouse that can run incredibly fast seriously. Heck, Batman was changed dramatically from his original common depiction so that he could be taken seriously. For Sonic, it's gonna take a lot more than makeup.

[TheRedStranger]

 

Over the last 20 years Sega has all but denied the SatAM cast existence, and many probably feel like The Freedom Fighters and Mobius continuality are slowly being erased from their last and only official media.

 

Sega hasn't denied their existence, they just aren't as important.

 

I mean, SatAM barely made it to its 2nd season due to it's lackluster attention. However, the comics are massively successful and Sega's now sees it as a prime attraction for their fans. As long as it's successful, they acknowledge their existence.

 

The reason why the American characters haven't appeared in any games yet is because they're too foreign and not widely known. The games are currently made in Japan, where Sonic is hardly known as it is and the American canon is vastly different in comparison. Plus, they already have a large cast of characters as it is. Why would they want to add more when they know the fans want less?

 

 

 Because the characters actually have...you know, character. Sega of Japan gave us wonderul things like '06's Princess Paper-Flat Elise, Shadow The Hedgehog (oh look, the moon has magicaly healed itself, despite the last game!) and ah well, just take a pick from your own list of personal pet-peeves. I'm sure you have one.

 

 From what I recall Sonic is red, white, and blue, has a get-it-done attitude, and is a big indivdualist that despises a guy who wants to establish an empire. Why that's more Amurican than chilly-dogs, guns, and apple pie! Naka and Oshima made Sonic for the American audience because them and all of SEGA knew it was their only way to beat the Nintendo Mario-Monopoly (which thank God they succeded in doing, because it diversified the market and opened up new doors for everyone by snatchin up market-share from what was a very cut-throat company at the time). Remember Sonic Team trusted the American Madeline Schroder and her creative team to revise the character for American audiences. If it wasn't for her and Tom Kalinski's ballsy marketing (against Japan-managment's consent and comfort) Sonic would probably have been just another obscure platformer, another Bubbsy or Jazz Jack-Rabbit with a goofy rock-band, fangs, and a weird human love-intrest named Madonna (I kid you not that was Sonic Team's orginal conception of the character). It was all-but storyless, and then people in the Sega of America branch breathed life and made something from nothing, and that eventually culminated into the Satam we have today, and that fueled not just the American Comic and Underground Canons but the European as well (which really gets the unfair axe). SEGA failed as a hardware company because it didn't listen to it's American branch when it came to it's constant hardware upgrades and lack of substance in the software. When Sonic Adventure was made, it was great, but it was too late, their bad marketing cuaght up to them... If they had just focused on developing engaging games with engaging stories instead of wasting focus on silly perphery, we might have seen a greater Sonic legacy than the one we have now. Sadly Sonic Team is disconnected to the people and market that made it great in the 90's. I have hope for the future (the trajectory has changed for the better) but the Sonic audience wants more...they want a fixed and consise canon!

 

 Personally I think they should get back to spirit of Sonic Adventure with a story and in-depth characters that makes us care about what we are playing and mix it with the Satam/Archie/ hell, even a dash of the Fleetway Canon if it works.They should purse that direction with new vigor and critical resolve.

 

 My advice, liquidize it all. Absorb what works creatively from all canons and abandon the flatter ideas, conceptsm and characters (or at least get some writers who care to make them more than organic props that cheer mindlessly in the background!). Go for depth of character not breadth, for one would thing  Sally would make a hilarious and more dynamic foil for Sonic in the games (imagine the diologue you could get from that!) Put robotization in the game to make us care/worry for the characters and bring a dark-but-family-friendly threat into the mix! Games are advancing, and interactive fiction is a burgeonig art form (I mean look at the elaborate story telling of the Mass Effect and Arkham frachises!) Best rise with the times or get crushed by self-imposed mediocrity and then sucked up into a mire of goofy plot-holes and unengaging characters. When it comes to characters, canon, and story, I think Sega should suck up their were-hog-loving, human-on-hedge-hog-lovin' pride and admit there is more potential from the American and European canons for making fun games than they let on.

 

 Also, Satam did reach it to Japan. And it has it's fans that would surely support this notion.

 

*Pulls out a shotgun and pitchfork* 

 

Who's with me?

[LogiTeeka]

The reason why the games are getting considerably bland is due to Sonic Team playing it safe. They tried making dark and epic games with lots of drama, but the end result was a bunch of flack from snobby, nit-picky critics who hated the new approach and wanted to go back to the basics.

 

For some games, the storytelling worked (i.e. SA1, SA2, Rush, Rush Adventure, Black Knight), while others didn't (i.e. Shadow, 06, Secret Rings). Unfortunately, the ones that didn't work received the most attention and were used as prime examples for the critics to attack stories and characters in the Sonic series.

 

The ones that did receive praise were the ones with hardly any story in them (i.e. the Advance series, Sonic 4, Colors, Generations). Because of their success' both critically and financially, it's easy to see why Sonic Team is heading in this direction.

 

As of the moment, the Archie comics are the only series left that tries keeping it dramatic.

[TheRedStranger]

The reason why the games are getting considerably bland is due to Sonic Team playing it safe. They tried making dark and epic games with lots of drama, but the end result was a bunch of flack from snobby, nit-picky critics who hated the new approach and wanted to go back to the basics.

 

For some games, the storytelling worked (i.e. SA1, SA2, Rush, Rush Adventure, Black Knight), while others didn't (i.e. Shadow, 06, Secret Rings). Unfortunately, the ones that didn't work received the most attention and were used as prime examples for the critics to attack stories and characters in the Sonic series.

 

The ones that did receive praise were the ones with hardly any story in them (i.e. the Advance series, Sonic 4, Colors, Generations). Because of their success' both critically and financially, it's easy to see why Sonic Team is heading in this direction.

 

As of the moment, the Archie comics are the only series left that tries keeping it dramatic.

 

  Story will always be more marketable in the end. We are seeing the market change towards this. This isn't the 90's anymore. The gaming-phenomena is now a permenant hallmark of global, post-modern culture and it's market is vast.  Look at cinematic games like Uncharted, Mass Effect, the Last of Us, and The Walking Dead. The market is trending towards theses games. Japanese game companies need to realize that continutiy is needed for a good momentum for promising succeessive sales. If you make stories more interconnnected and flow from one to the next, you assure fans will buy the next if they enjoyed the last. Look at the Zelda series for example and it's horrifically fractured canon, you can buy one game and then skip the rest. The story doesn't invite you to enjoy the next adventure or look into the past ones. You would have more dedicated fan base otherwise, and the hype you could coax out of your community would be tremendous. With the internet culture as it is, your fans would be your best advertisers.

 

 I have seen a lot of good critques out their that urge these frachises to step up their game story wise, despite their critique of the games aformentioned. I know a brainless sucker is born everyday and they will happily buy a story crafted for the lower common demoninator, but that is a fickle audience to have (when the new COD comes out they'll ignore a good platformer and then sell their kidney (or parent's kidney) to get it, even though it's the same as the last, and the last, and the last...).  Gamers are a sub-culture now, and that sub-culture is maturing and soon they will want more. Either give them an amazing linear story (Arkham) interactive story (Mass Effect), or the ability to create their own story (Minecraft, The Sims). There is your most stable market.

 

Also, there is a hidden option here, a road not commonly taken. And you could split the frachise into two consistant continuties.  Just like DC and Marvel do with Batman and Spider Man, create a Sonic continuity for one group and then another, much like story-lite Megaman and and story-heavy Megaman X. It will take time, but I see the market is rapidly shifting towards the cinematic-quality of story-telling. In fact I see games having the power to transcend the cinema, you can control the pacing and outcome of the story in a video game. Imagine a Sonic game that had the Satam tone and the open world of Arkham? Tell me, would you buy that? Would you want other's to buy it and slip the word to all your friends?

 

 The comic's style adn tone is the future of Sonic as a whole, I feel it in my bones. The fans need to realize that they have just as much responsibilty for maintaining the franchise as SEGA. Every critque must be constructive, feedback must be constant, and the ones that aren't helping better the franchise and are just nitpicking  should just be pounced and verbally buried by a legion of rational minds. Don't ask what Sega can do for you, ask what you can do to manipulate the capitalist market to get what works. It's called consumer soverignty, excercise that power. The better the communication between producer and consummer, the better the product. In a broad and maturing market and burgeoning culture that is hungry for greater stories and advancing quality, the potential for a high-grossing story-driven Sonic game, is as inevitable as a sunrise. Ian Flynn has already indirectly admitted in interviews that he has collaborated with Sega for certain games. Sonic The Dark Brotherhood, actually had Swatbots and a deeper story. Too bad the production was rushed, that game could have been triple A.

[Mike Arcade]

Okay, am I the only one still playing this game here? I mean the conversation here is interesting but aren't we suppose to say what we would change or should happen in the comic? Regardless I just came up with a few ideas on what I would have changed in the comic, such things for example are as followed.

 

Nate Morgan, how do I start with him? I mean the guy is boring but not terrible, just unnecessary and probably only put in the book to have a token good guy human character, I mean that's not bad but his background and all really doesn't add much to the series, and stuff like him "inventing" the power rings could have easily been given to Uncle Chuck (much like SatAM, you're welcome). I have no idea how I would have used Nate, maybe as a side character and a Doctor character for GUN, I have no clue. Other then that you could pretty much remove him and add some of his backstory to Chuck and it would have been much better and made more sense.
 

Now for a Sonic Heroes adaption, it could have happened at one point and almost did, I thank god everyday that Bollers concept of a Heroes adaption NEVER happened. How would I have done it, well I'd actually take note on STC's Brotherhood of Metalix, I mean that was SO GOOD and to see Archie Sonic have a similar event would have been awesome. Eggman would event this Metal Sonic to end Sonic once and for all, BUT for some reason (ADAM?) it goes berserk and takes over Megaopolis. It would probably end up building it's own Metal Sonic Troopers (and those wouldn't have been built by Chuck then in the comic) and start attacking all corners of the world, leading everyone to band together to beat this Metal Sonic Empire. It shouldn't last too long, maybe 3 to 4 issues but that's it. I wouldn't mind if we get something like this in the future, where Metal takes over the other Metal Series and so forth, hell it'd be cool to see Shard in the middle between his "brother" and The Freedom Fighters and forced to choose a side. It's a hell of a lot better then what Bollers had in mind isn't it.
 

One more thing I can think of is how The Echidnas were handled, at first it was pretty good for it's time, but as Penders continued to make the book (and dedicate FOUR ISSUES of the comic to Knux and Julie getting together) it was obvious that it was gonna be canned, after all that's what we buy a Sonic comic for, ROMANCE! *sarcasm*
While Penders did get screwed over a bit I will admit, he mostly screwed himself over during the end of his run in the comic. If I was going to have Knux race appear it would have be a bit different that how it ended up in Penders run. For one Sal and Knux never would have been childhood friends, the echidnas would have been gone for a long time, like about  100 - 1000 years or something. The Brotherhood and Legion for some reason would have ended up in the same zone together, and over the years the Legion would have been trying to break out and reach Mobius, while the Brotherhood fight in order to keep them in. The reason for them remaining in this zone for so long is that this prophecy says that if they would have remained this Cataclysm would happen and wipe out the Echidna race, similar to how Chaos almost wiped them out years ago, so the Brotherhood takes their race to another zone, only for the Legion to sabotage their efforts and pull them in the same zone the Legion now live in thanks to a previous guardian and the brotherhood. Knuckles is at Angel Island because the Island is also the gateway to the zone the echidnas are in and the (Master) Emerald is also the key to how they ended up at this zone. Most of it would end up like how it is in the comic but Julie is instead loyal to the Legion and her half siblings (who are only using her), Julie and her sis would be like Kitana and Mileena from Mortal Kombat in a way and how they are in the book, and Knuckles will try to help her and convince her to join his side. Their would be this big conflict between Knuckles and Locke, with Knux trying to say that the world needs them and stuff like that, but Locke saying that this zone is their world now. Knuckles would grow to be rebellious to his father, you could say that in a funny way Knuckles would be the Echidna's "Sonic" in a way, but not so much in a literal sense. Kragok wouldn't have been killed by Tobor, Tobor was pretty damn cool and might not have died. But Kragok would have killed someone Knuckles would know and thus earn his hatred, those two would be true enemies and the fight between them would have lasted for quite awhile. I don't know what's going to happen to the Echidnas now, but if it were me I would retcon Knux history so that the Legion and Dark Brotherhood were the same thing, hell you can have Shade and Julie be best friends like Jade and Kitana. You can do a lot with the echidnas, but I wouldn't have none of the pretentious crap Penders did from the middle to the end of his run in the comics.
 

And that's how I would have done things in the comic, maybe they could have done the Legion stuff and Knuckles stuff much later in the comics run rather then how it was done in the 90's, like have the Brotherhood and Legion appear after the Sonic Adventure Adaptions, the comic would have been MUCH different if that was the case. What we got for the time was pretty good, well up until that certain run of the comic but hey live and learn folks, live and learn. I'll be back to post on this topic with even more things that I would have changed in the comic...maybe...or maybe I'll say what I would have changed in something else...till next time!


 

[Uncle Ben]

 

 

As in focusing on the Sonamy/Sonic Adventure Era/Sonic X crowds, and forgetting the Sonsal/Satam/ Underground/ Classic Sonic crowds for the sake of marketability?

 

 

 

Yes. I understand why. But as i said theres no reason to forget about us. I mean they could easily combine the two

 

 

 I would agree with you.

 

 And I would also agree with LogiTeeka. No matter what, someone is going to complain unproductivly. The "classic" fans should make sensible points and talk about relevant issues and avoid nostagic nitpicks that forget the true spirit of their cuase. The more grounded and reserved our arguments, the more potential to gain ground and be heard.

 

 I know of the green-eyes controversy...it makes me weep for the fandom. If we put all that focus on the story as fans, put all that energy into a positive coresponce, the story-arc's trajectory could be massively diffrent than it is today (probably for the better). 

 

 

 

See most of us tend to be sensible and reasonable. Its the whiney nwer generations fans that strech it out to make us look bad. All i ask for is that Sonic and the comic cast get more panel time than their SegaSonic counterparts cause we all know SEGA wont give the comic cast the time and day. Plus SonSally so i can crush the dreams of SonAmy fans hehehehehe.

 

But the green eye controversy deserves a

[ILOVEVHS]

Why can't we all just get along?

Oh right, because we're assfaced morons.

[TheRedStranger]

Why can't we all just get along?

Oh right, because we're assfaced morons.

 

Well if there is one of us that don't deserve that title it would be you. Why? Because you realize the fact that a portion of the fandom is indeed mornicly whiny and that we need to be more civil. You gotta know a problem before you can fix it.

 

The more sensible people we all become, the better things will get - if not for the whole fandom, then at least our growing community. Remember people tend to avoid the obnoxious but listen to the encouraging. More constructivly critical our voices become, the more they will stand out and be heard.

[TheRedStranger]

Ohp, Ben mentioned romance, now I feel we're obliged to talk about the ever akward subject.

 

What do you think was corny and how could they make it more beliveable, impacting, and less smaltzy.

[RedAuthar]

Ohp, Ben mentioned romance, now I feel we're obliged to talk about the ever akward subject.

 

What do you think was corny and how could they make it more beliveable, impacting, and less smaltzy.

Considering the comic is updated on a monthly basis, I don't really think there is a problem with the romances.  To go any deeper and make things more complex or meaningful would distract from the adventure and the other story or seem to drag on for being to long.  But do any less would make the romances a bit pointless and characters would lose a lot of their appeal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I believe the romances could be improved, I just don't think it needs to be at the moment. 

 

Though they could tone down on the long winded Love Triangles.  Ever since Geoffrey showed up there has been some love triangle going on.  I'd rather focus on another aspect of the characters' relationships rather than other options.

 

Though I also don't blame them for sticking with the love triangles as the one other time they tried to add drama in a relationship ended up with fans enraged (the slap). 

[Mike Arcade]

 

Ohp, Ben mentioned romance, now I feel we're obliged to talk about the ever akward subject.

 

What do you think was corny and how could they make it more beliveable, impacting, and less smaltzy.

Considering the comic is updated on a monthly basis, I don't really think there is a problem with the romances.  To go any deeper and make things more complex or meaningful would distract from the adventure and the other story or seem to drag on for being to long.  But do any less would make the romances a bit pointless and characters would lose a lot of their appeal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I believe the romances could be improved, I just don't think it needs to be at the moment. 

 

Though they could tone down on the long winded Love Triangles.  Ever since Geoffrey showed up there has been some love triangle going on.  I'd rather focus on another aspect of the characters' relationships rather than other options.

 

Though I also don't blame them for sticking with the love triangles as the one other time they tried to add drama in a relationship ended up with fans enraged (the slap). 

 

Wait, wasn't I the one that mentioned romance first in my 2nd post in this topic? Ehh, whatever.

 

I pretty much agree with you Red, I don't mind romance in comics and shows, but for the Archie Comic it's had high and low points, the main reason why I don't care for it is all the shipping crap I've seen, how people are saying "he" should belong with "her", I AM SICK OF THAT. Romance can be good in a story, I don't care who gets paired up, just make sure it's well written. I mean I can understand "the slap", sure it was HORRIBLY written (and the artwork didn't help) but it's boring if two characters are together from beginning to end without some sort of problem, it could have worked if it was better written. Like Sal saying "How could you be so selfish" and Sonic says "You're asking me to stay with you and not save the world, oh yeah Sal...I'M THE SELFISH ONE." THEN have her slap him and both looking at each other with very pissed off looks, I don't know if that's any good but it's better then what happened in the comic. I liked it in SatAM where you don't know if Sonic and Sally are actually together or something else. That was pretty cool in the show and they mostly kept it that way in the comic up until tossed in space where they were "official" or whatever. and then there's Knux and Julie, as I mentioned in my previous post, YOU DO NOT DEDICATE 4 ISSUES GETTING TWO CHARACTERS TOGETHER AS THE MAIN PLOT OF AN ACTION COMIC. I'm pretty damn sure that's why the Knuckles book was cancelled, just for that stupidity alone. I do like Geoffrey and Mina though, they worked pretty well overall. Granted some things could have been ironed out for those love triangles but it wasn't bad and at best it was pretty good, the way you can make romance work in a comic like Sonic The Hedgehog is for it to NOT be the main focus of the issue's plot or story arc, unlike those issues of the Knuckles Comic. There's something funny I should mention, Bollers (I don't know why I keep mentioning him) actually planned out to have Sonic and Amy actually together if he continued his run in the comic. It wouldn't have worked in multiple ways, for one she's still technically too young for Sonic despite the ring making her older, and two there is no way in hell Sega would have ever allowed that, it seems that Bollers was trying to make Amy into Sally which is hilarious in OH SO MANY ways. If it was in another continuity they maybe it could work, hell if you like that "shipping" as people call it the closest you'll get to it is Sonic X, and even then that's extremely ambiguous and left for the viewer to decide, which is a good call on the writers part.

Whoever ends up with whoever is up to the writers, I just wish people wouldn't obsess over it, seriously it's pretty ridiculous.

[LogiTeeka]

There's something funny I should mention, Bollers (I don't know why I keep mentioning him) actually planned out to have Sonic and Amy actually together if he continued his run in the comic. It wouldn't have worked in multiple ways, for one she's still technically too young for Sonic despite the ring making her older, and two there is no way in hell Sega would have ever allowed that, it seems that Bollers was trying to make Amy into Sally which is hilarious in OH SO MANY ways. If it was in another continuity they maybe it could work, hell if you like that "shipping" as people call it the closest you'll get to it is Sonic X, and even then that's extremely ambiguous and left for the viewer to decide, which is a good call on the writers part.

 

If it were Amy's current depiction, yeah, it definetly wouldn't work. It also wouldn't make sense for newer viewers who're used to seeing Sonic's fear of the fan-girlish Amy constantly stalking him.

 

The only continuity to depict Amy in a Sallyesque role was the Fleetway series. While still a fangirl in some places, she as more laid-back, level-headed and even capable of defending herself. And while still attracted to Sonic, Amy also had a subtle crush on Johnny Lightfoot, but it was never clearly depicted. If there was an Amy the current Sonic would be comfortable dating, it would definitely be the Fleetway Amy.

[Mike Arcade]

 

There's something funny I should mention, Bollers (I don't know why I keep mentioning him) actually planned out to have Sonic and Amy actually together if he continued his run in the comic. It wouldn't have worked in multiple ways, for one she's still technically too young for Sonic despite the ring making her older, and two there is no way in hell Sega would have ever allowed that, it seems that Bollers was trying to make Amy into Sally which is hilarious in OH SO MANY ways. If it was in another continuity they maybe it could work, hell if you like that "shipping" as people call it the closest you'll get to it is Sonic X, and even then that's extremely ambiguous and left for the viewer to decide, which is a good call on the writers part.

 

If it were Amy's current depiction, yeah, it definetly wouldn't work. It also wouldn't make sense for newer viewers who're used to seeing Sonic's fear of the fan-girlish Amy constantly stalking him.

 

The only continuity to depict Amy in a Sallyesque role was the Fleetway series. While still a fangirl in some places, she as more laid-back, level-headed and even capable of defending herself. And while still attracted to Sonic, Amy also had a subtle crush on Johnny Lightfoot, but it was never clearly depicted. If there was an Amy the current Sonic would be comfortable dating, it would definitely be the Fleetway Amy.

 

You got a point there man, that does make sense. STC RULES! I didn't grow up with it because, well I'm from America, but that's a great comic and STC-O is just as great too. It's a shame I never hear much of it from other Sonic fans.

 

On a side note, while there are some similarities to the Archie Comic, it is entirely unfair to compare them and see which is better. I say this because there's a good reason why that is so, it's because the Fleetway Team were given nearly COMPLETE freedom in making the comic. They pretty much got to do nearly anything with it, and with it luckily having such a good team of writers and artists that liked the games and loved writing the comic it's no surprise on how nearly consistently great it is! Ben Hurst and the SatAM team much like the Fleetway team had pretty much the same amount of freedom as they had as Sonic had no defined "style" at the time when it came to other medias, which is why SatAM (as you know) is so great and a cult hit. The Archie Team had a good set of writers and ended up getting some decent to great artists for the comic, but as you can tell later on with mostly newbies at the time working on the art and internal conflictions between writers is why the Archie Comic ended up in a rut for awhile. Not only that but as the comic continued early on and started to be more serious like SatAM Sega took notice and kept a watchful eye on the comic, thus why some things couldn't be done like killing off Sally and Knuckles 20YL due for they're demand on a Sonic Adventure adaption. After Penders & Bollers run on the comic ended by the time Ian and his team started Sega started keeping a closer eye on the comic after all that internal crap their run had left. That's why Ian and Co. don't get to use and do some crazier stuff like have Eggman Nega in the book, or whatever else Ian's got in mind untamed. Some complain about him but if both Sega and Archie (hopefully after this legal stuff ends) give the guy and his team just as much freedom as the STC and SatAM's writers had the comic will rise and be something amazing. Something tells me this soft reboot world of the Archie Comic is gonna be great, I do hope older fans get to be satisfied with how the run will be from now on and that Ian will throw some good stuff in for the older readers. I'm more of an in-between reader myself as I read a few comics when I was younger and read a lot of them and the newer issues now. Here's to Archie Sonic, Sonic The Comic, and all the comics and shows of the past and future!

 

Also this just maybe me but is their a Sonic The Comic thread around here in the comic section? If not I should probably make one sometime later, granted we mostly talk about the Archie Comic but it IS a comic book starring Sonic after all.