206 replies to this topic

[TheRedStranger]

 

 Hm, and did he have much flaws in your eyes? Or did he play off as a full Mary Sue?

 

 

During Penders' run the only faults I could see was sometimes his ego got the better of him and you could say his past experience got it the way of seeing the present situation for what it was; i.e. he thought he knew it all. Also he wasn't a team player at heart, but to add to that he caused dissension in the ranks to the point he would attack allies. However, other than that I can't really name many other faults for the character under Penders' writing. Now since Ian took over....

 

 

 Now we are getting somewhere...Assuming you are correct in your assement, this could very well be. Any egotistical character but nigh perfect can be a betrayl of a writer's sense of morals in such self-insert characters (your concious always gets you, someway or another, even with such small tad of vanity).

 

I say, though not fully validated, your suspiciouons have no confutation and they warrant a search. If I was a prosecutor, I'd take this case. 

[Mike Arcade]

And my question is left in the dust..

 

Whatever, that is a good question if Geoffrey was a self insert of Penders at the time, I can see that being possible. Personally I just always thought of him as a rival to Sonic after him and Knuckles mostly patched things up, he was the Comic's answer to Knuckles in a way, always butting heads with Sonic. Not only that, but he could actually compete with him in one aspect Knuckles didn't, being fond of Sally and vice versa.  Their conflict was quite a heated one and Geoffrey would have EXECUTED Sonic if he had the chance back in the day. You do have a point their Prince, I mean when did Sonic ever truly get a "take that" moment against Geoffrey? I mean I get St. John and why he would belittle Sonic as a kid way over his head that never takes anything seriously, but how old IS St. John anyway? I mean the guy was very self-righteous and always had to be in control and the leader as a way of living up to his father's legacy, though as misguided as he was I would have loved to see Sonic point that out as a counter to all his insults, granted Sonic is a flawed character himself and Geoffrey does have a point sometimes, but the wins over losses with both their egos was never balanced, it was only later when Geoffrey got with Hershey that the whole rivalry was dropped without a conclusion between the two putting aside their differences, they were just cool with each other (most of the time) after that. At least with the Dragon Kingdom Arc Sonic and Sally were in the whole thing with Monkey Khan was wrapped up for both characters.

 

I was quite young and too hyper as a kid to really understand Archie Sonic (not to mention only getting a handful of issues) and when I first saw Geoffrey I didn't like because he was against Sonic , but reading the comic throughout the past few years I grew to understand and like Geoffrey. I got why he was loyal to Naugus and wanted to make a difference, and reading the past issues really did make me root for the character in those later issues before the Super Genesis Wave. I'd like to see where he ended up if he returns, I'm not expecting him to work with Naugus in this new world but I would love to see that.

 

Also as for Another Character and Writer that serves Self-Incursion better you need to look no further then Nate Morgan and Karl Bollers, not sure on all the details but apparently Nate was essentially Karl and was given a backstory that made him important to the past of the Acorn Kingdom and the characters, but was really unneeded and could have just been given as extra backstory for Uncle Chuck. I'm not sure where Tommy Turtle fits into all this but it's been said that he's a Creator's Pet.

[Captain Sorzo]

Bill Cosby Nate Morgan is from the SatAM story bible. While I suppose it's possible Bollers projected to an extent when writing him (I haven't read any of the issues he penned), he did not create the character.

[TheRedStranger]

Bill Cosby Nate Morgan is from the SatAM story bible. While I suppose it's possible Bollers projected to an extent when writing the him (I haven't read any of the issues he penned), he did not create the character.

 

 However that was radically different Nate. would have loved to see the original preconception turned out. Would you guys have given it a shot in the comic? And if so, how?

[Mike Arcade]

Hey it's cool man, that was a really tough question anyway. You make a point that if they started out with Early Sonic it would probably have been redesigned early on, well maybe as Archie Sonic started out more comical then anything else so that does fit Early Sonic from the pictures we have. If it lasted like our Archie Sonic did it would be quite a different but similar comic to what we have now. As for using the Early SatAM as a basis, I would have hoped that if they did use that with SatAM Nate and all it would have started out with the tone of SatAM or say Early STC so to speak. I think the comic would have been much different if they played it mostly straight from the beginning, but I am glad with what we got even if some of the stuff hasn't aged well.

 

Yeah Bollers did that with everyone, I don't see why he couldn't do that more naturally with the characters, some Out Of Characters Moments I can buy into but he took OOC WAY too far! Thus infamy was born, at least he got out while he still could.

[RedAuthar]

Who's ready for another Mike Arcade question? Too bad.

 

What if Archie Sonic wasn't based off of SatAM, but the Early SatAM(http://sonic.wikia.c...edgehog_Cartoon) or the SatAM from the SatAM Bible (http://www.sonicsata...ind-the-scenes/)? How would have effected the Comic?

 

This is actually a continuation of my most recent question from the SatAM Reconstruction Topic, just if any of you were wondering.

Actually Archie Sonic was created as a four issue mini-series to Advertise Sonic SatAM.  However they didn't have all the information or plans for the series, just the pilot, so the initial four issues were based on that.  Arguably they may not have even had that as Sally's initial design was blond.  

 

However the mini-series went over so well that they made it a full blown series, but it was mostly more like AoStH than it was like SatAM, being filled with puns, bad jokes, and more humor than plot causing the heroes to never feel threatened.  It wasn't until the original editor moved on to "bigger and better" things did Archie Sonic take a more serious turn.  

 

So technically while Archie Sonic uses many of the same characters and concepts, it's no more based in SatAM than SatAM is from the Games. 

[MoKat]

 we already know that Bollers made characters bend to his will and act in ways they normally wouldn't.

 

*nods* That^ was the main reason I had issues with Bollers' writing. 

 

 

just because a character wasn't created by said author doesn't mean that he/she couldn't 'take possession' of the character.

 

True.  I honestly had Nate pegged as an Author Avatar back when the character was first introduced in the Archie series.  The revalation that Nate (not Chuck) had created the Power Rings really had me steamed.  With Nate in the picture, Uncle Chuck and Rotor didn't seem as important all of a sudden -.-

[jtreese]

You are tasked to do your own reboot of the comic series. How would you go about it?

 

Bonus points if you drop the concept of a Genisis Wave and give me something new and unique.

If I was tasked for a reboot, I would have an origin miniseries. I would want the origin story to be deep and to get a custom as to who this freedom fighter is. 

 

For Example let's start with Sonic:

A lovable scamp who likes to prank people and have fun. Then the invasion of Mobotropolis began. During the city's evacuation, Uncle would get injured by a Swatbot, causing Uncle Chuck to fall to the ground and he becomes unconcious. Chuck whispers to Sonic that everything will be okay, and he'll catch up with them. Sonic obeys and escapes with Rosie and the others to Knothole. Sonic decides to wait in knothole village for Uncle Chuck to come back. He waits all night, and starts to rain. Sonic runs through the forest calling for Uncle Chuck. Sonic collapses and starts to cry. Sally runs to Sonic and embraces him with her warm hug. He picks up the picture of him and Uncle Chuck with sadness. After that day, things were never the same.

 

Summary: origin stories focusing on family. The relationship between Uncle Chuck and Sonic is touching. After having his Uncle taken away from him, Sonic realizes that family is the most important thing and the freedom fighters are his family.

[TheRedStranger]

If you had to do an "Evil" Sonic, or a that juxtaposed Sonic as his corrupted equal, how would you go about it and what would they be like?

[RedAuthar]

Depends on how much liberty I had.

Originally I had a fan character named RS4 who was a clone of Sonic made by Eggman in an attempt to mimic Shadow's creation.

Alternatively Shadow or Metal could always be used.

[Mike Arcade]

Good Question, although Metal and Shadow work to fit that role they each end up developing too differently from Sonic. Evil Sonic/Scourge in Archie Sonic was an nice attempt at one but never had a lot of character development to be successful enough.

 

If I were to make an Evil or Juxtaposed Equal to Sonic, he or she would either have to match his speed OR able to stop his speed by having a skill or power that can make it so. This Character would have an Ego that matches or surpasses Sonic's and can either be hot headed or cool headed. Perhaps instead of helping people like Sonic does this Character doesn't care what happens to others around them. I do have a character that could match Sonic, but he's more of a Neutral Counterpart then anything else.

 

Or I'd remake Scourge with a lot more development and get it right, that works too.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

Depends on how much liberty I had.

 

This much.

 

[Spoiler] http://th03.devianta...ter-d55rsh7.jpg [/Spoiler}

 

Let your mind soar to new heights...the possibilities are never ending.

 

----------

 

 

If I were to make an Evil or Juxtaposed Equal to Sonic, he or she would either have to match his speed OR able to stop his speed by having a skill or power that can make it so. This Character would have an Ego that matches or surpasses Sonic's and can either be hot headed or cool headed. Perhaps instead of helping people like Sonic does this Character doesn't care what happens to others around them. I do have a character that could match Sonic, but he's more of a Neutral Counterpart then anything else.

 

 

This character sounds intersting.

 

So let's see how we could work with exsisting juxtaposees (Scourge, Metal, Shadow) and fresh new fan characters as well.

[Mike Arcade]

Alright let's start this topic up again, woo! The first 2 involve those wacky demigods, The Walkers.

 

Question 1: Why didn't The Ancient Walkers not stop Robotnik? Isn't he throwing things out of balance as well, but still they just let him be. Yes, Mogul is their enemy but you'd think they would pay attention to the guy who pretty much OWNS the world. If not them why not send someone to kill him, which leads me to my next question.

 

Question 2: Why have Sir Connery kill Black Death, The Sorceress, and Poe? The only reason we are given is because they are Dark Magic users, that's it. Apparently their magic throws things off balance, but a man turning the planet into a smog filled, metal cage isn't. Yes they did put mind control on Knuckles, but he struck first and came to them! The whole Poe thing was to get The Sword of Acorns back, Knux did get it back so good, problem solved. After that it's not like those guys were planning to take over the world, in fact Black Death is know as "The One Who Stands Alone". Threatening name aside it looks like he along with the other two just wanted to improve their magic and be left alone, it's not like they were hurting anyone AND they only attacked technically in self defense. Sir Connery you may have been a Paladin, but now you just reduced to being a hit man. Seems very counterproductive if you ask me, in fact why couldn't they just ask those guys to join them instead of killing them!?! Ah well, it's not like they have a wizard on their side or anything...*looks at Merlin Prower* OH WAIT!

 

These next 3 are for The Mobius X Years Later Zone.

 

Question 1: How did Bunnie and Antoine's kids get Cyborg Limbs? They couldn't have been born with them, because BIOLOGY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. What did they get into an accident, born wrong, or made a choice to be Cyborgs? I like Flynn's work but he really dropped the ball on this one, this makes no sense!

 

Question 2: What did King Sonic do to change his Timeline so much? It's NEVER explained in the story OR in it's sequel 30YL, seriously what happened there? Any of you got thoughts on this cause I'm drawing a blank on this one.

 

Question 3: How would you guys have done X Years Later? Penders really failed when it came to down to it, perhaps Knuckles 20YL would have been a lot better then what we got, but really there are A LOT of stuff that was wrong with it. At least when Flynn took it over it actually had Characters with Character, Emotion, a defined Plot. Still, whatever you guys can come up with is a lot better then what we got when it first started.

 

WWYDD coming back WITH A VENGEANCE, YEAH!!!!!

[RedAuthar]

1)  As said by Zonic, Sonic NEEDS to fight a Robotnik.  So while it doesn't make sense from Sonic's point of view, Robotnik is still part of the balance that needs to be there.  Magically removing him from the equation upsets said balance.

 

2) Crusade.  The magic they were practicing was "bad Magic".  So the Walkers sent out a "holy crusader" to wipe them out.  It doesn't make sense because it doesn't need to.  The characters were intended to be bad guys using bad magic which needed to be dealt with.  Also we get the story from the other character's point of view, not the Walkers' or Connery's.  Maybe they knew more about the situation.

 

--

 

1) Who says they were born with it?  Nobody.  They could have been born limbless for all we know.  He didn't drop the ball he just didn't explain where they came from.  Also with the nanites, who says it wasn't impossible?

 

2) Attempt to Change the timeline.  The machine malfunctioned and this is the results.  Sonic didn't actually get to do anything.  Also this a lost storyline due to rewrites.  Originally Jani-Ca who appeared in issue 106 was going to be Lara-Su from 20 years later.  However that storyline was dropped by the changing writers.  So technically it's Jani-Ca/Lara-Su's actions that changed history not Sonic's.  Also it could be Locke dying...since it didn't match up.

 

3)  Never touch the subject.  Due to the fact that there are supposed to be alternative Love interests for the characters, whom they will finally marry should never be touched upon until said wedding actually takes place.  We have no worries of Amy stealing Sonic away because Sonic will end up with Sal in the future anyways.  What? That could be an alternate timeline?  Then stop writing it as if it's the actual future timeline.  

[Mike Arcade]

True, that and if we're braking the 4th wall here without that there would BE no Archie Sonic, granted we have had Robotnik gone for awhile but with him out permanently it could rise to an even more ruthless and twisted antagonist in the spotlight.

 

I get the whole Holy Crusade thing going on there, but Dark is Not Evil (http://tvtropes.org/...n/DarkIsNotEvil) Red. Had they attempted to talk to them and try to get them to join their side we wouldn't need them slaughtered, they were never established to have much more darker agendas and only sought to become more powerful. That in itself is not necessarily evil, who can any of us say that needed to die? I don't know, they are never explained or established again, as far as I'm concerned they might have been killed out of paranoia by The Walkers.

 

Limbless, born with them due to nanomachines (insert Metal Gear Reference here), or got them later, any of those are acceptable, I just wished we got an explanation but that's a small flaw to a pretty good story.

 

Attempt yes, but he MUST have done something right? Whatever that is it's up for speculation, the only thing I know about that lost storyline is that Nicole had something to do with it. Also I did not know that about Jani-Ca, that very well could have been the case though. Although maybe not but...the whole XYL Zones/Timelines are confusing as hell let's put it like that.

 

That was the problem though, Penders was so dead set at it being the main timeline that it just makes everything in the book rather moot since we'd know the ending in this case. Thankfully that didn't happen, and considering how the characters were in that timeline before Sonic's Attempt I'm glad they didn't stick. Personally I see them as both Alternate Zones & Timelines, like Sonic CD. XYL is a possible Good Future, while Dark Mobius & and Silver's Timeline are Bad Futures. Time travel plots CAN be done right but are very tricky, as long as it's known that it's an alternate timeline then that's fine, well THAT and it has to be well written.

[E122Psi]

I'm kinda underwhelmed by the treatment of many personalities, but I think Antoine's development is one I would have definitely altered. It seemed the 'cheap' way of maturing a character, just diluting all their flaws and replacing them with generic positive traits, making for a competent but bland hero archetype. There were other ways to grow Antoine, he was a fearful character, but even this could be turned around, maybe it could make him more cautious and wary. Hell, even his comic relief role could have twisted into making him a Crazy Awesome type.

 

Even at that though I don't think they should have lost all of Ant's bumbling persona. He can have competent moments to balance it out, but Antoine without all his clumsy and arrogant foibles isn't Antoine. 

 

In fact this is something that puts me off most of the Freedom Fighters' portrayals. They seem too 'normal' these days, their pathos and misgivings are mainly circumstantial and don't really grow much in terms of quirks. Remember when Rotor was Adorkable? Or when Sally was a pompous hot head? I really would have liked more expansion of the stuff we saw in, say, season one of Satam, each character getting a moment in the spotlight where they shown a defining shortcoming and learned to overcome it. The only one we see much of now is Sonic's cockiness, and that's likely because it's pretty much engraved into the character in all forms nowadays.

 

It's a basic common premise, but there's a reason and that being it works for establishing personalities and making them vital to the story.

[RedAuthar]

True, that and if we're braking the 4th wall here without that there would BE no Archie Sonic, granted we have had Robotnik gone for awhile but with him out permanently it could rise to an even more ruthless and twisted antagonist in the spotlight.

I get the whole Holy Crusade thing going on there, but Dark is Not Evil (http://tvtropes.org/...n/DarkIsNotEvil) Red. Had they attempted to talk to them and try to get them to join their side we wouldn't need them slaughtered, they were never established to have much more darker agendas and only sought to become more powerful. That in itself is not necessarily evil, who can any of us say that needed to die? I don't know, they are never explained or established again, as far as I'm concerned they might have been killed out of paranoia by The Walkers.

Limbless, born with them due to nanomachines (insert Metal Gear Reference here), or got them later, any of those are acceptable, I just wished we got an explanation but that's a small flaw to a pretty good story.

Attempt yes, but he MUST have done something right? Whatever that is it's up for speculation, the only thing I know about that lost storyline is that Nicole had something to do with it. Also I did not know that about Jani-Ca, that very well could have been the case though. Although maybe not but...the whole XYL Zones/Timelines are confusing as hell let's put it like that.

That was the problem though, Penders was so dead set at it being the main timeline that it just makes everything in the book rather moot since we'd know the ending in this case. Thankfully that didn't happen, and considering how the characters were in that timeline before Sonic's Attempt I'm glad they didn't stick. Personally I see them as both Alternate Zones & Timelines, like Sonic CD. XYL is a possible Good Future, while Dark Mobius & and Silver's Timeline are Bad Futures. Time travel plots CAN be done right but are very tricky, as long as it's known that it's an alternate timeline then that's fine, well THAT and it has to be well written.

Oh...you responded and I didn't notice....sorry.
So about the "Dark" Wizards, not all were evil...but nearly all of them had evil desires with their powers.

The future is always a tricky subject with comics. Best not to touch it unless you're willing to deal with the consequences.

And lastly, every time they brought in a new villain like the iron queen, all fans did is complain Robotnik wasn't the main villain. No villain would be good enough to fill those shoes, why bother trying?

[TheRedStranger]

What would have you done differently, with the newer issues? Go!

[RedAuthar]

What would have you done differently, with the newer issues? Go!

Everything about that stupid undersea arc.

 

The only thing that I really liked is that the undersea kingdom had a poor grasp of the land kingdom's people and battles.  Everything else about it seemed to be just filler.  The new fish people were uninteresting...they didn't solve the problem they had to be saved by a dues ex machina aka Chaos and Tikal...and for a underwater mission, they pretty much brushed off the fact that Sonic isn't the best choice for this job.  It's sad that the secondary story in the issues were the ones holding my attention.

 

Haven't really thought how to fix it yet though...

[TheRedStranger]

 

What would have you done differently, with the newer issues? Go!

Everything about that stupid undersea arc.

 

The only thing that I really liked is that the undersea kingdom had a poor grasp of the land kingdom's people and battles.  Everything else about it seemed to be just filler.  The new fish people were uninteresting...they didn't solve the problem they had to be saved by a dues ex machina aka Chaos and Tikal...and for a underwater mission, they pretty much brushed off the fact that Sonic isn't the best choice for this job.  It's sad that the secondary story in the issues were the ones holding my attention.

 

Haven't really thought how to fix it yet though...

 

 

Good points. Perhaps we can start with the Sonic-underwater issue. Perhaps you could nix him out, or perhaps you could make necessary that he has to go