564 replies to this topic

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

It's bad when stuff like that makes you miss The Cold War.

 

 If I was an evil overlord I spread decension indirectly through another party, set the Freedom Fighters up to be less than trust worthy.

 

I bring this idea up, because I was unconciously pre-supposing my own storyline. My bad! You see, Edge of Tommorow is a distant sequal to Sea3on ( almost 1 then 3 years after it, enough to let the series finish on it's own without me assuming my thoughts on the ending or stepping on the writers' toes). It only assumes Snivly and Nuagus are defeated and from there I plan to reference the progressing Sea3on storyline time to time as it goes along. In this, like the aforementioned Eastern Block, the past comes back to smack the Freedom Fighters in the face (who have no idea of the politics and problems of the original pre-coupe world, seeing how they were just children at the time). And...I plan to bring a certain someone/s back from the brink (all though there are going to be some...changes). I plan to bridge some gaps and adress all these above issues in various episodes. Since it's a written story, I can probably go more in depth into mileu of the Mandarins and such for us hardcore Satam fans.

 

 I plan to post some concept art and the first chapter soon (thought about eventually narrating and illustrating the whole thing with a group once Sea3on is done - as to enforce, rather than steal it's thunder) . 

 

 

That definitely would be an interesting concept, and you're right, none of the Freedom Fighters would know anything but the world in Robotnik's grasp. I, personally would love to see another group of original Mobian characters that could set the Freedom Fighters reeling, especially seeing one that could get inside Sally's head and push her to her limits psychologically.

 

 

 Oh then have a small taste of this:

 

"This alliance is temporary, I assure you. Your unwarranted moral qualms will dissipate with time and proper reflection. After all, have I done anything you wouldn't have done?"

 

 Sally's hand crept down to her holster, fingers wrapping around Nicole, half protecting her, half wishing for her protection. She could try to shoot him in the back. Surely even he could not survive a bolt of plasma to the back of his masked skull. Yet, there was too much risk. He was armed to the teeth. She had seen him in action now, weapons flaring up and flipping out of him like jack-knifes as he weaved and sliced through hordes of Swatbots like they were made of wet tissue paper.  She could try, but she would most likely fail... Her fingers crept no further, but kept them tight around her belt. Caculating her odds, she picked the preferred option of an uncomfortable alliance and the promise of fighting another day (as opposed to a blade in her belly).

 

 Reluctantly,  she hurried up to the gray-robed creature and began to walk beside him, matching his unnatural pace. "I still don't trust you," Sally told him. "I haven't forgot that you tried to do to -"

 

 "Tails, as you call him, was merely in my way - I removed him from my way, nothing more, nothing less. I have no quarrel with your cause, nor any individual persons within your... organization. It is only rational, for a group of organisms to engage in acts of self-preservation. I do not fault you all for acting out what is natural, especially against a consequence for failure that is truly worse than death. I simply desired to remove Tail's from my path, as he was being an obstacle to my own ends at the time." 

 

 "You tried to push Tails off a ledge..." Sally grumbled, knuckles cracking as she clenched her fists.

 

 "Correction: I did push him off a ledge," the creature droned matter of factly as he pushed through thick dust-soaked cobwebs without as much as flinch. "It was the most efficacious action during the moment, killing him would've been a waste of time and energy."

 

 "Still, you could've-"

 

"He can fly." 

 

  Sally went quite...

[Prince ByTor]

 

 

 

It's bad when stuff like that makes you miss The Cold War.

 

 If I was an evil overlord I spread decension indirectly through another party, set the Freedom Fighters up to be less than trust worthy.

 

I bring this idea up, because I was unconciously pre-supposing my own storyline. My bad! You see, Edge of Tommorow is a distant sequal to Sea3on ( almost 1 then 3 years after it, enough to let the series finish on it's own without me assuming my thoughts on the ending or stepping on the writers' toes). It only assumes Snivly and Nuagus are defeated and from there I plan to reference the progressing Sea3on storyline time to time as it goes along. In this, like the aforementioned Eastern Block, the past comes back to smack the Freedom Fighters in the face (who have no idea of the politics and problems of the original pre-coupe world, seeing how they were just children at the time). And...I plan to bring a certain someone/s back from the brink (all though there are going to be some...changes). I plan to bridge some gaps and adress all these above issues in various episodes. Since it's a written story, I can probably go more in depth into mileu of the Mandarins and such for us hardcore Satam fans.

 

 I plan to post some concept art and the first chapter soon (thought about eventually narrating and illustrating the whole thing with a group once Sea3on is done - as to enforce, rather than steal it's thunder) . 

 

 

That definitely would be an interesting concept, and you're right, none of the Freedom Fighters would know anything but the world in Robotnik's grasp. I, personally would love to see another group of original Mobian characters that could set the Freedom Fighters reeling, especially seeing one that could get inside Sally's head and push her to her limits psychologically.

 

 

 Oh then have a small taste of this:

 

"This alliance is temporary, I assure you. Your unwarranted moral qualms will dissipate with time and proper reflection. After all, have I done anything you wouldn't have done?"

 

 Sally's hand crept down to her holster, fingers wrapping around Nicole, half protecting her, half wishing for her protection. She could try to shoot him in the back. Surely even he could not survive a bolt of plasma to the back of his masked skull. Yet, there was too much risk. He was armed to the teeth. She had seen him in action now, weapons flaring up and flipping out of him like jack-knifes as he weaved and sliced through hordes of Swatbots like they were made of wet tissue paper.  She could try, but she would most likely fail... Her fingers crept no further, but kept them tight around her belt. Caculating her odds, she picked the preferred option of an uncomfortable alliance and the promise of fighting another day (as opposed to a blade in her belly).

 

 Reluctantly,  she hurried up to the gray-robed creature and began to walk beside him, matching his unnatural pace. "I still don't trust you," Sally told him. "I haven't forgot that you tried to do to -"

 

 "Tails, as you call him, was merely in my way - I removed him from my way, nothing more, nothing less. I have no quarrel with your cause, nor any individual persons within your... organization. It is only rational, for a group of organisms to engage in acts of self-preservation. I do not fault you all for acting out what is natural, especially against a consequence for failure that is truly worse than death. I simply desired to remove Tail's from my path, as he was being an obstacle to my own ends at the time." 

 

 "You tried to push Tails off a ledge..." Sally grumbled, knuckles cracking as she clenched her fists.

 

 "Correction: I did push him off a ledge," the creature droned matter of factly as he pushed through thick dust-soaked cobwebs without as much as flinch. "It was the most efficacious action during the moment, killing him would've been a waste of time and energy."

 

 "Still, you could've-"

 

"He can fly." 

 

  Sally went quite...

 

 

Like I said; it sounds interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 

 

It's bad when stuff like that makes you miss The Cold War.

 

 If I was an evil overlord I spread decension indirectly through another party, set the Freedom Fighters up to be less than trust worthy.

 

I bring this idea up, because I was unconciously pre-supposing my own storyline. My bad! You see, Edge of Tommorow is a distant sequal to Sea3on ( almost 1 then 3 years after it, enough to let the series finish on it's own without me assuming my thoughts on the ending or stepping on the writers' toes). It only assumes Snivly and Nuagus are defeated and from there I plan to reference the progressing Sea3on storyline time to time as it goes along. In this, like the aforementioned Eastern Block, the past comes back to smack the Freedom Fighters in the face (who have no idea of the politics and problems of the original pre-coupe world, seeing how they were just children at the time). And...I plan to bring a certain someone/s back from the brink (all though there are going to be some...changes). I plan to bridge some gaps and adress all these above issues in various episodes. Since it's a written story, I can probably go more in depth into mileu of the Mandarins and such for us hardcore Satam fans.

 

 I plan to post some concept art and the first chapter soon (thought about eventually narrating and illustrating the whole thing with a group once Sea3on is done - as to enforce, rather than steal it's thunder) . 

 

 

That definitely would be an interesting concept, and you're right, none of the Freedom Fighters would know anything but the world in Robotnik's grasp. I, personally would love to see another group of original Mobian characters that could set the Freedom Fighters reeling, especially seeing one that could get inside Sally's head and push her to her limits psychologically.

 

 

 Oh then have a small taste of this:

 

"This alliance is temporary, I assure you. Your unwarranted moral qualms will dissipate with time and proper reflection. After all, have I done anything you wouldn't have done?"

 

 Sally's hand crept down to her holster, fingers wrapping around Nicole, half protecting her, half wishing for her protection. She could try to shoot him in the back. Surely even he could not survive a bolt of plasma to the back of his masked skull. Yet, there was too much risk. He was armed to the teeth. She had seen him in action now, weapons flaring up and flipping out of him like jack-knifes as he weaved and sliced through hordes of Swatbots like they were made of wet tissue paper.  She could try, but she would most likely fail... Her fingers crept no further, but kept them tight around her belt. Caculating her odds, she picked the preferred option of an uncomfortable alliance and the promise of fighting another day (as opposed to a blade in her belly).

 

 Reluctantly,  she hurried up to the gray-robed creature and began to walk beside him, matching his unnatural pace. "I still don't trust you," Sally told him. "I haven't forgot that you tried to do to -"

 

 "Tails, as you call him, was merely in my way - I removed him from my way, nothing more, nothing less. I have no quarrel with your cause, nor any individual persons within your... organization. It is only rational, for a group of organisms to engage in acts of self-preservation. I do not fault you all for acting out what is natural, especially against a consequence for failure that is truly worse than death. I simply desired to remove Tail's from my path, as he was being an obstacle to my own ends at the time." 

 

 "You tried to push Tails off a ledge..." Sally grumbled, knuckles cracking as she clenched her fists.

 

 "Correction: I did push him off a ledge," the creature droned matter of factly as he pushed through thick dust-soaked cobwebs without as much as flinch. "It was the most efficacious action during the moment, killing him would've been a waste of time and energy."

 

 "Still, you could've-"

 

"He can fly." 

 

  Sally went quite...

 

 

Like I said; it sounds interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Anytime. 

[TheRedStranger]

Seriously though guys, let's take a whack with the space episode. 

 

 What the heck were they thinking with all those quirky robots, and then sudden break of theme, and the sudden lack of realism? And how can explain some of it's descrepencies without retconning it? 

[RedAuthar]

Easy.  The Robots each had Specific tasks that required them to be designed differently.  

 

Example:  The Claw Robot that attacks Sonic and Rotor likely had to grip things in case of an atmosphere leak.  The locks would prevent whatever it's holding or itself from being sucked out.  

 

This is hinted at when the Two Headed Robot accuses Sonic of being a "brain bot".  

[TheRedStranger]

Easy.  The Robots each had Specific tasks that required them to be designed differently.  

 

Example:  The Claw Robot that attacks Sonic and Rotor likely had to grip things in case of an atmosphere leak.  The locks would prevent whatever it's holding or itself from being sucked out.  

 

This is hinted at when the Two Headed Robot accuses Sonic of being a "brain bot".  

 

 Intresting observation. But why the bar? Did Lucas just randomly start directing?

 

 Hey guys! It's an organic!

 

 We don't serve their kind around here!
 

[LogiTeeka]

 

 

Seriously though guys, let's take a whack with the space episode. 

 

 What the heck were they thinking with all those quirky robots, and then sudden break of theme, and the sudden lack of realism? And how can explain some of it's descrepencies without retconning it? 

 

Easy.  The Robots each had Specific tasks that required them to be designed differently.  

Example:  The Claw Robot that attacks Sonic and Rotor likely had to grip things in case of an atmosphere leak.  The locks would prevent whatever it's holding or itself from being sucked out.  

 

This is hinted at when the Two Headed Robot accuses Sonic of being a "brain bot".  

 

 Intresting observation. But why the bar? Did Lucas just randomly start directing?

 

 Hey guys! It's an organic!

 

 We don't serve their kind around here!

 

My guess is the same as RedAuthar's, that the robots were designed differently for various tasks aboard the station. Who knows? Maybe they were the SatAM equivalent of badniks from the games.

 

As for the sudden lack of realism, Sonic and other characters have shown multible times that Mobians are capable of breathing in space. That explains how Sonic and Rotor were capable of boarding the station without spacesuits when the "badniks" onboard had no need to breathe.

 

As for the bar... yeah, that was stupid. But who knows? Maybe some of the "badniks" onboard were originally designed to be nightclub owners/entertainers for Robotnik's higher establishments on Mobius, but happened to get drafted into the crew aboard the space station. That would explain the two-headed tuba robot that challenges Sonic to a music match.

[RedAuthar]

 

 

 

Seriously though guys, let's take a whack with the space episode. 

 

 What the heck were they thinking with all those quirky robots, and then sudden break of theme, and the sudden lack of realism? And how can explain some of it's descrepencies without retconning it? 

 

Easy.  The Robots each had Specific tasks that required them to be designed differently.  

Example:  The Claw Robot that attacks Sonic and Rotor likely had to grip things in case of an atmosphere leak.  The locks would prevent whatever it's holding or itself from being sucked out.  

 

This is hinted at when the Two Headed Robot accuses Sonic of being a "brain bot".  

 

 Intresting observation. But why the bar? Did Lucas just randomly start directing?

 

 Hey guys! It's an organic!

 

 We don't serve their kind around here!

 

My guess is the same as RedAuthar's, that the robots were designed differently for various tasks aboard the station. Who knows? Maybe they were the SatAM equivalent of badniks from the games.

 

As for the sudden lack of realism, Sonic and other characters have shown multible times that Mobians are capable of breathing in space. That explains how Sonic and Rotor were capable of boarding the station without spacesuits when the "badniks" onboard had no need to breathe.

 

As for the bar... yeah, that was stupid. But who knows? Maybe some of the "badniks" onboard were originally designed to be nightclub owners/entertainers for Robotnik's higher establishments on Mobius, but happened to get drafted into the crew aboard the space station. That would explain the two-headed tuba robot that challenges Sonic to a music match.

 

Adding to that the Randomness and unpredictability of Space, the robots were likely designed with an advanced AI to be able to deal with unforeseen problems, which gave many personalities as a side effect.  The bar could have come from the robots' own ideas versus Robotnik's design.  

[TheRedStranger]

Sonic's origin? Who's brave enough to take a dramatic stab at that? We know his powers somehow interact with magic (see upper posts for details), but how so?

[Prince ByTor]

Seriously though guys, let's take a whack with the space episode. 

 

 What the heck were they thinking with all those quirky robots, and then sudden break of theme, and the sudden lack of realism? And how can explain some of it's descrepencies without retconning it? 

 

I've often wondered if that episode was actually older than the ones that came before, but for a variety of reasons it got finished later. The reason I saw this is because it seems to contain some of the "wackiness" and less refinement of the pilot. In Heads or Tails we actually saw swatbots show emotion, maybe if my theory is correct at that point they hadn't solidified robots as emotionless automatons?

 

Sonic's origin? Who's brave enough to take a dramatic stab at that? We know his powers somehow interact with magic (see upper posts for details), but how so?

 

One of the biggest questions... well, if I remember right in the Stay Sonic comic he was originally brown, but turned blue when he first broke the sound barrier. As far as his super speed and such I'd have to say it's a mutation. Heck, think about it this way; we have many different species of animals who show human characteristics and don't forget about Miles "Tails": a fox with an extra tail that can fly. For me, considering the state of the planet itself, genetic mutation is the one I can wrap my brain around the best.

 

As far as "magic" goes I like to think that it is a force that just isn't fully understood and actually has a rational explanation.

[RedAuthar]

 

Seriously though guys, let's take a whack with the space episode. 

 

 What the heck were they thinking with all those quirky robots, and then sudden break of theme, and the sudden lack of realism? And how can explain some of it's descrepencies without retconning it? 

 

I've often wondered if that episode was actually older than the ones that came before, but for a variety of reasons it got finished later. The reason I saw this is because it seems to contain some of the "wackiness" and less refinement of the pilot. In Heads or Tails we actually saw swatbots show emotion, maybe if my theory is correct at that point they hadn't solidified robots as emotionless automatons?

 

Sonic's origin? Who's brave enough to take a dramatic stab at that? We know his powers somehow interact with magic (see upper posts for details), but how so?

 

One of the biggest questions... well, if I remember right in the Stay Sonic comic he was originally brown, but turned blue when he first broke the sound barrier. As far as his super speed and such I'd have to say it's a mutation. Heck, think about it this way; we have many different species of animals who show human characteristics and don't forget about Miles "Tails": a fox with an extra tail that can fly. For me, considering the state of the planet itself, genetic mutation is the one I can wrap my brain around the best.

 

As far as "magic" goes I like to think that it is a force that just isn't fully understood and actually has a rational explanation.

 

Considering Uncle Chuck is also Blue in SatAM, I think SatAM overturned Stay Sonic.  As well as Robotnik's backstory being different.

 

My thoughts though do support some sort of mutation.  SatAM-wise I'd say it would probably be connected to Sonic's mysterious parents and why Uncle Chuck did most of the raising of the Blue Blur. 

[TheRedStranger]

  A little writing advice on the subject for you writing guys to chew on:

 

 Distinguished Orson Scot Card, in his power-house book How to Write Fantasy Science Fiction asks this amazing question: "What is the price of Magic?" In the hands of an oversimplified script magic can just be that goofy, contrived, intelligence-insulting, care-bears "it’s magic" type of magic. This trope is most famously called a (and note I did not come up with this title)… http://tvtropes.org/...hp/Main/AssPull. Despite the exsistance of this trope,  you can still have an elaborate system that is based on various transcendent-laws and maximums (http://tvtropes.org/.../MagicAIsMagicA), though it is still supernatural in origin and has a flare of debateable ambiguity and mystery (which readers love, because it give them ability to get involved in the story and try to make up their own minds on things).  

 

  As for me, I see (and plan to write in my own work) Laazar’s crystal-computer as a truly enchanted construct designed to contain magic. However  there is a technological medium the user can use in order to manipulate various magics while being still being - for lack of better word - a “muggle." This akin to a magic-scroll or enchanted weapon in Skyrim. You can play that game as completly non-magic user, and still use one of those scrolls, all the sorcery is done for you, kinda like a TV Dinner.

 

 Do note that, in general, supernaturalist answers in a narrative (and meta-narrative for that matter) can both be as complex and believable as naturalist answers in a narrative: one small element from that broad term being magic http://tvtropes.org/...FunctionalMagic) .

 In fact, all naturalist axioms/basic beliefs are indeed articles of faith, tantamount to many grounded supernaturalist preconceptions. On the reverse “natural” explanations don't have to equate being reasonable or logical, it can be fallacious and wrong to a critical reader ( am sure the science of the Colbalt Effect, stinks sour for you guys as much as it does for me.  And in-universe,  like any other worldview , and that definitely precludes a world where you write all the rules a "natural" explanation can be outright wishfullment or crazyness (http://tvtropes.org/...trarySkepticism).

 

 Know that you can't be an evidentalist or reductionist all the way down, even in your writing. You can’t explain your rational explanation for this plot point, and then explain your rational explanation’s explanation for this character’s superpower, ad naseum. To quote C.S Lewis (famous fiction writer, intellectual, and philosopher): “…you cannot go explaining away forever: you will find that you have explained explanation itself away. You cannot go seeing through things forever. The whole point of seeing through something to see something through it. It is good that the window should be transparent, because the street or garden beyond it is opaque. How if you saw through the garden too? It is no use trying to see through first principles. If you see through everything, since everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world.” (Abolition of Man, 49.)

 Somewhere along the line of your explanations you got to assert something (unveil the series’ presuppositions, write its rule book, or establish its creed if you will, as the writer), stick with it as well as you can, and hope it sticks to the audience. What matters, the rational flow of the story, then on is in the interconnectivity and logical cohesion (non-contradiction) of these intertwining chain of elements: plot, characters, theme, and tone. These elements give your readers the ability to suspend any (superficially?) farfetched concepts in the light of the stories overall concatnated believability. When this is achieved the reader can get lost in the story and enjoy the plot more and more without jarring and depreciating distractions.    

 

 I'm sorry if that went over your guy's head any (I’m a bit of an overthinker  ).

 

My own thoughts on the subject of Laazar's Crystal and magic in fiction general:

 

 I am a big fantasy and sci-fi writer and one of the big themes I play with is blurring the line between the natural and the supernatural, the mundane and the miraculous, instead of a fine line it is an elaborate and interconnected continuum spanning from miracles to quantum mechanics all a subtextual revelation linking up the elaborate thematic chain. I try to show that naturalistic, reductionist thinking ultimately implodes in on itself, and reveal that every character ultimately has diverse fundamental beliefs and non-beliefs that come from their backstory or personal choices that are on an equal playing field at the start of the story. One grand unknown blows by and can rapidly change the way the characters view the world when the story’s conflict comes around, challenging their reasons for believing and being what they are. They must either change their belifes and ways or stand their ground throughout the conflict against their ideological-opposite (the main villain and/or anatagonistic foil) or some other faith-shaking event or encounter. That, my friends, can create the best of stories. I find allowing a plurality of concepts less limiting and more effective than the alternate approaches of contrived and mindless @**-pulling (eg. Elsie’s magical kiss healed Sonic because it was magical!) or the latter evidentalist, constantly deconstructing viewpoint (story element X must not really be X it must be Y, and Y is because of Z, ad naseum, ad reader’s are a snoozum) in my writing.

 

To sum up: What we deem rational in a story comes from our story's preconceptions about the nature of things and how they stand their ground in the light of other worldviews and their finite number of arguments, perspectives, and rationalizations they have in their arsenal.  As for the characters, and ourselves …

 

“We see things not as they are; we see things as we are.”

 

*TheRedStranger glides backwards, melding into the mist and shadows, leaving you to ponder his words*

 

So, I ask you this. Assuming it is  an elaborate set of higher powers that achieve the extraordinary (like functional magic). What is the price of Magic in Satam? Is there more than one type? How do character’s explain/percieve it in their own minds. 

[TheRedStranger]

 Remember in Sonic and The Secret Scrolls where he hides in the wind tunnel to spring a trap on Robotnik? That was an attempt to kill the creep!

 

 That's somethin' not even Batman has the bullocks to do....

 

 What do you think? Think Sonic's got the guts? I do. Or does it not fit his character?

[Prince ByTor]

 Remember in Sonic and The Secret Scrolls where he hides in the wind tunnel to spring a trap on Robotnik? That was an attempt to kill the creep!

 

 That's somethin' not even Batman has the bullocks to do....

 

 What do you think? Think Sonic's got the guts? I do. Or does it not fit his character?

 

In SatAM I cannot count the amount of times where Sonic is alone with Robotnik and instead of doing him in he does something silly like spin him around in the chair. Heck, in Sonic Conversion he goes to steal robotisizer parts: "Take me to his royal dopiness." There he is with Robotnik and is a spin-dash away from making his insides his outsides, but he doesn't. Again, in Blast to the Past, same scenario when he was trying to stop his Uncle from being robotisized he has a chance to off him with a spin-dash and doesn't; if he would've done it there his take-over would not have really happened!

Other instances where he had golden opportunities: Heads or Tails (He and Tails fall into his control room; he could've possibly killed him there), Super Sonic (Him, Bunny, and Sally could've possibly gotten him; although they were under heavy fire), Sonic Racer (He could've thrown off that red cloak and spin-dashed a hole in Robotnik), Hooked on Sonics (There was an opportunity here, however he might've had some trouble both the swat bots and Antoine present), and Drood Henge (Before being rescued he could've done something to him here as well). Then we can think about the other freedom fighters: Dulcy for instance: (Twice she froze him; the time in Game Guy what was stopping her from biting his head off after she froze him? Instead they retreat and let Robotnik continue his deadly game with Sonic); the other time in the episode Dulcy it would've been a little harder, but it was an opportunity nevertheless.

I guess what I am saying here is that none of the Freedom Fighters ever have any drive to kill, but rather "Bring Robotnik and Snively to justice." In fact in Hooked on Sonics Rotor tells Antoine that capturing Robotnik would get Sally to notice him, not killing him; that is exactly what Antoine attempts and fails at.

 

As far as Robotnik's apparent death in Secret Scrolls, I am unsure if Sonic's motives were to kill Robotnik, but just finding a means to escape him. In real-life they would want to stop him by any means possible including death, but we are talking about a cartoon that was played on Saturday Mornings to children. I really don't know if any of the character would be capable of taking a life, but under the circumstances and with what they went through especially Sonic and Sally would be the most capable in my mind mentally.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 Remember in Sonic and The Secret Scrolls where he hides in the wind tunnel to spring a trap on Robotnik? That was an attempt to kill the creep!

 

 That's somethin' not even Batman has the bullocks to do....

 

 What do you think? Think Sonic's got the guts? I do. Or does it not fit his character?

 

In SatAM I cannot count the amount of times where Sonic is alone with Robotnik and instead of doing him in he does something silly like spin him around in the chair. Heck, in Sonic Conversion he goes to steal robotisizer parts: "Take me to his royal dopiness." There he is with Robotnik and is a spin-dash away from making his insides his outsides, but he doesn't. Again, in Blast to the Past, same scenario when he was trying to stop his Uncle from being robotisized he has a chance to off him with a spin-dash and doesn't; if he would've done it there his take-over would not have really happened!

Other instances where he had golden opportunities: Heads or Tails (He and Tails fall into his control room; he could've possibly killed him there), Super Sonic (Him, Bunny, and Sally could've possibly gotten him; although they were under heavy fire), Sonic Racer (He could've thrown off that red cloak and spin-dashed a hole in Robotnik), Hooked on Sonics (There was an opportunity here, however he might've had some trouble both the swat bots and Antoine present), and Drood Henge (Before being rescued he could've done something to him here as well). Then we can think about the other freedom fighters: Dulcy for instance: (Twice she froze him; the time in Game Guy what was stopping her from biting his head off after she froze him? Instead they retreat and let Robotnik continue his deadly game with Sonic); the other time in the episode Dulcy it would've been a little harder, but it was an opportunity nevertheless.

I guess what I am saying here is that none of the Freedom Fighters ever have any drive to kill, but rather "Bring Robotnik and Snively to justice." In fact in Hooked on Sonics Rotor tells Antoine that capturing Robotnik would get Sally to notice him, not killing him; that is exactly what Antoine attempts and fails at.

 

As far as Robotnik's apparent death in Secret Scrolls, I am unsure if Sonic's motives were to kill Robotnik, but just finding a means to escape him. In real-life they would want to stop him by any means possible including death, but we are talking about a cartoon that was played on Saturday Mornings to children. I really don't know if any of the character would be capable of taking a life, but under the circumstances and with what they went through especially Sonic and Sally would be the most capable in my mind mentally.

 

 

 Some very well-sourced observations!

 

 I find it odd though that they seem pretty happy that he was dead (especially Bunny). And that they knew what the Wind Tunnel could do. There is enough evidence to say Sonic had malice of forethought, just the once maybe. As for some intances I could see how he might not risk it at the expence of others (the spin-dash is a dangerous technique, you sacrifice accuracy for power, since your vision is obscured). I for one wouldn't want to accidently get my past self, friends, or family killed. As for Heads or Tails, well, would you really murder someone in front of an orphaned, scarable, child primed for deep mental scarring while in an all around life threatening situation, or would you bail with the kid to fight another day? Perhaps, Robotnik's cybernetics make those attacks impractical. And perhaps they prefer him alive for one reason, his brain. They want to know how the newer model roboticzors work...what way is better than...coaxing... it out of the mouth of it's very maker?

 

 Roter was also using hyberbole. Catching Robotnik would be more honor-worthy and challanging than killing him off right (though absurdly impractical and contrived, which was what Roter was going for rhetorically). It might reveal that they don't have a prefrence for killing and would love another option, but the alternative might still be on the table if the chips are down.

 

 As for any other in-story explanations as to why they did "not take the shot?"

 

Ps. I'd kill him in a heart-beat, but I wouldn't enjoy it. He has such a wonderful sense of humour!  Just look how he punked Antoine!

[Uncle Ben]

 Remember in Sonic and The Secret Scrolls where he hides in the wind tunnel to spring a trap on Robotnik? That was an attempt to kill the creep!

 

 That's somethin' not even Batman has the bullocks to do....

 

 What do you think? Think Sonic's got the guts? I do. Or does it not fit his character?

 

I think it would be a last resort choice if he had too

[Prince ByTor]

 

 Some very well-sourced observations!

 

 I find it odd though that they seem pretty happy that he was dead (especially Bunny). And that they knew what the Wind Tunnel could do. There is enough evidence to say Sonic had malice of forethought, just the once maybe. As for some intances I could see how he might not risk it at the expence of others (the spin-dash is a dangerous technique, you sacrifice accuracy for power, since your vision is obscured). I for one wouldn't want to accidently get my past self, friends, or family killed. As for Heads or Tails, well, would you really murder someone in front of an orphaned, scarable, child primed for deep mental scarring while in an all around life threatening situation, or would you bail with the kid to fight another day? Perhaps, Robotnik's cybernetics make those attacks impractical. And perhaps they prefer him alive for one reason, his brain. They want to know how the newer model roboticzors work...what way is better than...coaxing... it out of the mouth of it's very maker?

 

 Roter was also using hyberbole. Catching Robotnik would be more honor-worthy and challanging than killing him off right (though absurdly impractical and contrived, which was what Roter was going for rhetorically). It might reveal that they don't have a prefrence for killing and would love another option, but the alternative might still be on the table if the chips are down.

 

 As for any other in-story explanations as to why they did "not take the shot?"

 

Ps. I'd kill him in a heart-beat, but I wouldn't enjoy it. He has such a wonderful sense of humour!  Just look how he punked Antoine!

 

 

For me Bunny sounded more amazed and/or in disbelief by what had just happened rather than happy, but that's my interpretation. As for malice with the wind tunnel I cannot say for certain if their ends were for Robotnik and company to be flung off the cliff, and when it went off on them earlier in the episode they were able to overpower the wind. Plus, it's not like they could aim the wind tunnel.

 

Honestly outside of the fact that this was a Saturday morning cartoon that you don't normally see deaths; I would agree with Uncle Ben, if they had no choice. For all of his faults Ken Penders had Sonic pegged as far as having Sally die or severely injured to make him go over the edge like he did in Endgame. If you hurt someone Sonic loved severely enough or killed him/her I think he would definitely kill.

 

*edit*

After looking over the scene in question I never heard or saw anything that indicated malice. It was more along the lines that they were trying to get rid of the stealth orb that was tracking them. If anything it was Sally's plan to use the wind tunnel and Sonic went along, so if there was any premeditation of killing Robotnik it was Sally that had most of the intent. I also looked at Bunny again and it was definitely disbelief she was emoting. Although the way Sonic said "Believe it." did have a certain harsh tone to it.

[RedAuthar]

Remember in Sonic and The Secret Scrolls where he hides in the wind tunnel to spring a trap on Robotnik? That was an attempt to kill the creep!
 
 That's somethin' not even Batman has the bullocks to do....
 
 What do you think? Think Sonic's got the guts? I do. Or does it not fit his character?

Yes. Though I think Sonic is more justice than vengeance so he won't do it if he doesn't need to.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 Some very well-sourced observations!

 

 I find it odd though that they seem pretty happy that he was dead (especially Bunny). And that they knew what the Wind Tunnel could do. There is enough evidence to say Sonic had malice of forethought, just the once maybe. As for some intances I could see how he might not risk it at the expence of others (the spin-dash is a dangerous technique, you sacrifice accuracy for power, since your vision is obscured). I for one wouldn't want to accidently get my past self, friends, or family killed. As for Heads or Tails, well, would you really murder someone in front of an orphaned, scarable, child primed for deep mental scarring while in an all around life threatening situation, or would you bail with the kid to fight another day? Perhaps, Robotnik's cybernetics make those attacks impractical. And perhaps they prefer him alive for one reason, his brain. They want to know how the newer model roboticzors work...what way is better than...coaxing... it out of the mouth of it's very maker?

 

 Roter was also using hyberbole. Catching Robotnik would be more honor-worthy and challanging than killing him off right (though absurdly impractical and contrived, which was what Roter was going for rhetorically). It might reveal that they don't have a prefrence for killing and would love another option, but the alternative might still be on the table if the chips are down.

 

 As for any other in-story explanations as to why they did "not take the shot?"

 

Ps. I'd kill him in a heart-beat, but I wouldn't enjoy it. He has such a wonderful sense of humour!  Just look how he punked Antoine!

 

 

For me Bunny sounded more amazed and/or in disbelief by what had just happened rather than happy, but that's my interpretation. As for malice with the wind tunnel I cannot say for certain if their ends were for Robotnik and company to be flung off the cliff, and when it went off on them earlier in the episode they were able to overpower the wind. Plus, it's not like they could aim the wind tunnel.

 

Honestly outside of the fact that this was a Saturday morning cartoon that you don't normally see deaths; I would agree with Uncle Ben, if they had no choice. For all of his faults Ken Penders had Sonic pegged as far as having Sally die or severely injured to make him go over the edge like he did in Endgame. If you hurt someone Sonic loved severely enough or killed him/her I think he would definitely kill.

 

*edit*

After looking over the scene in question I never heard or saw anything that indicated malice. It was more along the lines that they were trying to get rid of the stealth orb that was tracking them. If anything it was Sally's plan to use the wind tunnel and Sonic went along, so if there was any premeditation of killing Robotnik it was Sally that had most of the intent. I also looked at Bunny again and it was definitely disbelief she was emoting. Although the way Sonic said "Believe it." did have a certain harsh tone to it.

 

 

 Makes sense. My inner villan has always told me, that Sally would be the easiest to sway to the dark-side via a series of morally questionable decisions in the name of the greater good.

 

 "I sense great hate in you, young Acorn..."

 

 Sounds like Sonic is please with that fact. *rubs hands together* "Good...good..."

[Prince ByTor]

 

 Makes sense. My inner villan has always told me, that Sally would be the easiest to sway to the dark-side via a series of morally questionable decisions in the name of the greater good.

 

 "I sense great hate in you, young Acorn..."

 

 Sounds like Sonic is please with that fact. *rubs hands together* "Good...good..."

 

 

Personally I'd have no qualms with offing Robotnik either. I really think Sally is the one more capable of killing than Sonic; while she seems to be the most stable and rational, she is actually emotionally fragile. I could just imagine what would happen if something happened to Tails and she witnessed it... it wouldn't be pretty.