564 replies to this topic

[Uncle Ben]

 

What about Weaponized Robians? Why didn't Robotnik think of and use that to his advantage? Like what happened to Sally in Archie Sonic.

 

Yes that's the rub...why not use them as a terror weapon against the Freedom Fighters? We clearly see they are able to agress (Uncle Chuck). Why not use them to terrorize and attack the Freedom Fighters? 

 

 

I think the Psychological aspect was enough

[Prince ByTor]

I think it would definitely fit Robotnik's M.O. But also couldn't he also find their relatives and threaten to destroy them while they are in Robian form? I.e. "Come and be Roboticized or your family will die; at least this way you'll be together... forever." (Evil Laugh)

[TheRedStranger]

I think it would definitely fit Robotnik's M.O. But also couldn't he also find their relatives and threaten to destroy them while they are in Robian form? I.e. "Come and be Roboticized or your family will die; at least this way you'll be together... forever." (Evil Laugh)

 

So what keeps this and the use as weaponry from happening?

[Prince ByTor]

In a real world, really nothing. However, as dark as it is SatAM is a saturday morning cartoon and I think it would be a step too dark and parents might scream about it. Although, it would've been interesting to see what would've happened in the episode in season 3 where Nichole turned out to be a child that Robotnik took her mind and soul and put it into a pocket computer; I would've loved to have seen how Ben Hurst would've pulled that off.

[Uncle Ben]

 

I think it would definitely fit Robotnik's M.O. But also couldn't he also find their relatives and threaten to destroy them while they are in Robian form? I.e. "Come and be Roboticized or your family will die; at least this way you'll be together... forever." (Evil Laugh)

 

So what keeps this and the use as weaponry from happening?

 

 

And as i said: Psychological.

[Captain Sorzo]

Not going to go too in-depth here, both because the idea's only half-formed and because I really need to get an assignment done, but I imagine that it's for the same reason Robotnik doesn't simply bomb the Great Forest into oblivion: he wants to win on his own terms, to beat the Freedom Fighters in a specific way. Perhaps using Robians as combatants violates the role he has envisioned for them in his society.

 

I like to think that Snively, while far more sympathetic than his uncle, is ultimately the more ruthless of the two, willing to do whatever is necessary to win. Though ultimately motivated largely by a desire to prove his own self-worth, he styles himself as driven by logic and efficiency, rather than pride and hatred.

 

Writing the third chapter of my story will force me to sit down and really explore what drives Robotnik and Snively, which is something I'm looking forward to. Not that it'll happen any time soon...

[Prince ByTor]

Not going to go too in-depth here, both because the idea's only half-formed and because I really need to get an assignment done, but I imagine that it's for the same reason Robotnik doesn't simply bomb the Great Forest into oblivion: he wants to win on his own terms, to beat the Freedom Fighters in a specific way. Perhaps using Robians as combatants violates the role he has envisioned for them in his society.

 

I like to think that Snively, while far more sympathetic than his uncle, is ultimately the more ruthless of the two, willing to do whatever is necessary to win. Though ultimately motivated largely by a desire to prove his own self-worth, he styles himself as driven by logic and efficiency, rather than pride and hatred.

 

Writing the third chapter of my story will force me to sit down and really explore what drives Robotnik and Snively, which is something I'm looking forward to. Not that it'll happen any time soon...

 

Good point; Robotnik does seem to have absolute "rules" that he abides by in a "lawful evil" sort of way. I agree, it would be more something Snively would do.

[ZealousFoX]

Well I feel that since this is my first post in this discussion and reading up to this point has sure been an interesting ride. As I have noticed that were more heading toward discussing Snively and I want iterate my thoughts on why I find him a way more dangerous enemy than Robotnik. I guess I can start with the third episode of season 2 called "No Brainer" and it will focus on to aspects of that episode that make Robotnik and Snively very different in how they handle eradication strategies. There was one huge flaw in Robotnik and that was pride which made him as we all know lose in the end, but I feel his downfall was seen almost from the beginning as he would play games as much as Sonic did to him.

 

Now Snively on the other hand made leaps and bounds in just one invention. As well.... He was able to brain wash Sonic and make him part of his strategy in finding Knothole. Now where Robotnik never found Knothole, Snively did and not the only that he was able to mind wipe the majority of the other Freedom Fighters, except three. That was with one invention.

 

If anyone takes the crown at almost complete success. As much as some SatAM fans don't see it. To me and a few others see Snively as the one that could, in one go have Robotnik in a raged fit while looking at all six of the pests beckoning to his call.

 

well that's my first post in here, can't wait to put more as this develops.

[Mike Arcade]

Very good points on Snively, I have to admit thought that Snively has a lot of patience when it comes to dealing with Robotnik, and it further makes me wonder how good Snively would have been ruling Robotroplolis in SatAM, but we do have Sea3on for that.

[wildfire]

I always thought of Snivley as more along for the ride than anything else.  Looking back at Blast to the Past as my main inspiration for this theory, remember when Robotnik and our little buddy were launching the Destroyer?  Robotnik seemed elated at the prospect of finally putting his best laid plans into action, whereas Snivley seemed, to me at least, as though he could really care less.  Let's take a step back into our SatAM history shall we?  The coup happens some month in 3224 (on the 13th) and it is more than safe to assume Julian and his nephew have been living amongst the king's subjects in Mobotropolis for quite some time.  At least enough for Julian to have gained substantial power and clout, as evidenced by his theft of the Robotosizer plans and his would be appointment as Minister of Science, a title that should have probably been given to Sir Charles by all accounts, but more on that later.  Anyway, so we've established a bit of a base line here for happenings with Julian and Snivley within Mobotropolis.  I would say it would be safe to assume a period of at the very least a year had gone by, and in all this time, as Julian's been acquiring more and more power, what exactly has Snivley had to do?  That's right, not a damn thing!  It stands to reason that, while Julian had all the authority, Snivley was taken care of alongside his uncle.  He most likely had residence within the city, with Julian at least if not on his own, who I may presume had some rather spacious quarters given his substantial contribution to the war effort (the king credits him as having won The Great War).  This may be a wee bit of a stretch, but why would Snivley want to give that up?  I'd say it's more than likely he lead a rather cushy life in public at least.  The coup would take all that away from him, and somehow I think he'd be opposed to that, but powerless to do anything about it.

 

Fast forward ten years or so, to the year 3235.  Robotnik has complete control over most of the planet, exerting more force on his nephew than ever as the only living being on the planet that doesn't want his neck (as far as he knows).  Snivley in turn sees his uncle eventually losing out to the resistance due mostly to his hubris and pride.  He may feel he has something to prove, to show Julian that he's not as weak and useless as the dictator has always believed.  However, he's overzealous, and quickly bites off more than he can chew, being almost instantly ousted by Nagus (who you'll recall was the supposed owner of those glowing eyes at the end of Doomsday).  Now powerless and alone, and with the sudden realization that he's free to make his own choices potentially for the first time in his entire life.  Colin "Snivley" of House Ivo returns to form as an unlikely ally for the Freedom Fighters, using his vast knowledge of the information systems still present within Robotropolis to aid them in overthrowing Nagus and his uncle.

 

That's something like how I think it could go...

[RedAuthar]

I always believed Snively was supposed to a wild card.  That in some instances he could be potentially more dangerous and chaotic than Robotnik but in others he's just taking up space.  

[wildfire]

There's no question that he has the potential to be extremely dangerous.  Snivley's willingness to do whatever it takes to assure victory as well as his innate need to prove himself make for a potent combination.  His mental state is also in question.  After a decade or more under his uncle's constant abuse, there's no telling when Snivley might have a mental break.

[TheRedStranger]

There's no question that he has the potential to be extremely dangerous.  Snivley's willingness to do whatever it takes to assure victory as well as his innate need to prove himself make for a potent combination.  His mental state is also in question.  After a decade or more under his uncle's constant abuse, there's no telling when Snivley might have a mental break.

 

He could have a severe Napolean/inferiority complex which would be easy to manipulate.

[wildfire]

His reaction in Season 2 to many of Robotnik's missteps says otherwise.  I always thought Snivley knew much more than he let on.  If anything, I think Robotnik's abuse tempered his will and made him all the more dangerous in my opinion.  A complex is definitely a possibility if Snivley's will is weaker than I initially believed, but there's little way to know.

[TheRedStranger]

His reaction in Season 2 to many of Robotnik's missteps says otherwise.  I always thought Snivley knew much more than he let on.  If anything, I think Robotnik's abuse tempered his will and made him all the more dangerous in my opinion.  A complex is definitely a possibility if Snivley's will is weaker than I initially believed, but there's little way to know.

 

We can see how quickly he can become flustered in Drood Henge as Sonic plays on his psyche like a fiddle. I think he's not ready for Sonic the way he is with Robotnik. He can't be subversive with Robotnik, He was Robotnik's abused little minion, but Sonic is gunning for him and will press everybutton to mess with him.

[E122Psi]

Not to mention Sonic is the key reason Robotnik abuses and emasculates Snively (from what I remember one quote from Drood Henge has Sonic pretty much mock gloat to him it, knowing he'd left him with a lot to answer to his uncle). Snively would probably be quite vehement on paying back Sonic and giving him a taste of what he'd put him through (perhaps why he's often also smug when his uncle is tormenting him or the other Freedom Fighters instead; 'let's see how YOU like it').

 

I noticed Snively seemed to become an increasing joke to Sonic and the others in Season Two. By Cry of the Wolf, even hyper cautious Sally stops taking him seriously and makes handy work of him. It's almost like a build up to his Not So Harmless moment in Season Three, just when the Freedom Fighters start to think he's a pushover, he puts them in their place and shows just how dangerous and ruthless he can be. If I remember correctly this happened in the comics as well.

 

I suppose this is a bit where Snively gains sympathy, despite being a thoroughly remorseless weasel, he's has practically a 'geek vs bully' chemistry with most people he's up against, being unimposing and treated as a joke.

[Captain Sorzo]

Not to mention Sonic is the key reason Robotnik abuses and emasculates Snively

 

Not necessarily. Robotnik didn't hesitate to threaten and mock Snively in Blast to the Past; he doubtless takes out his frustrations toward the Freedom Fighters on his nephew, as directly shown in the pilot, but their relationship would be an abusive one even without any resistance movements.

[TheRedStranger]

 

Not to mention Sonic is the key reason Robotnik abuses and emasculates Snively

 

Not necessarily. Robotnik didn't hesitate to threaten and mock Snively in Blast to the Past; he doubtless takes out his frustrations toward the Freedom Fighters on his nephew, as directly shown in the pilot, but their relationship would be an abusive one even without any resistance movements.

 

 

But none the less we can argue that this greatly exacerbates the devaluing of poor Snively. 

[E122Psi]

Robotnik would still have contempt for Snively, he does for anything that is not himself or created by his own hands really. It is his loss of power and humiliation at the hands of the Freedom Fighters that fuels his violent rage towards him however. Otherwise he's just a yes man he can push around to dwell in his godly status.

 

Robotnik's treatment at the hands of Naugus gives an interesting depth to his relationship with Snively. Most abusers or bullies are believed to been mistreated themselves at some point in life. Naugus didn't just kick Robotnik around, he used his magic to humiliate and make him quiver before him, with Snively usually laughing at his expense. Given how ego is such a huge asset of Robotnik's personality, this likely didn't help into how he ultimately valued his disrespectful nephew the moment he came into power (even in crow form you can see the contempt seething in those eyes as the little weasel mocks him. 'Just you wait. Then it's YOUR turn.').

 

This 'dog kicks dog kicks dog' heirarchy likely would have played part in Snively's turn in Season Three. With Naugus once again degrading Robotnik, he likely would have taken his frustrations out on Snively A LOT more than even standard.

[roxannihilation]

Robotnik would still have contempt for Snively, he does for anything that is not himself or created by his own hands really. It is his loss of power and humiliation at the hands of the Freedom Fighters that fuels his violent rage towards him however. Otherwise he's just a yes man he can push around to dwell in his godly status.

 

Robotnik's treatment at the hands of Naugus gives an interesting depth to his relationship with Snively. Most abusers or bullies are believed to been mistreated themselves at some point in life. Naugus didn't just kick Robotnik around, he used his magic to humiliate and make him quiver before him, with Snively usually laughing at his expense. Given how ego is such a huge asset of Robotnik's personality, this likely didn't help into how he ultimately valued his disrespectful nephew the moment he came into power (even in crow form you can see the contempt seething in those eyes as the little weasel mocks him. 'Just you wait. Then it's YOUR turn.').

 

This 'dog kicks dog kicks dog' heirarchy likely would have played part in Snively's turn in Season Three. With Naugus once again degrading Robotnik, he likely would have taken his frustrations out on Snively A LOT more than even standard.

 

Going back to what E122Psi said, I genuinely assumed that Robotnik took Snively under his wing, so to speak, luring him with the guise of having him be an "heir apparent" or right hand man to his "throne" -- while Julian actually had different goals in mind. I believed that he felt Snively had strengths where alternatively Julian had weaknesses and vice versa, something only Julian saw rather than his eager-to-please nephew noting until possibly years later. However, rather than letting Snively be a right-hand man, Julian preferred to maintain total control of the operation as to where he didn't fall into the same trap with Naugus most likely.

 

The whole thing with Snively and Robotnik uniting in this goal is something I have yet to fully understand -- were they both using each other from the beginning? Did they have benign intentions for one another to begin with?