564 replies to this topic

[TheRedStranger]

There is a lot of credibility in this approach. Also toughening the enemies tactics and having Robotnik adapt to his speed in his stratgem would make a nice touch.

 

Perhaps Antoine for you needs to be the one who shows us what they are fighting for. He is not quick to forget what they are trying to perserve. Knothole sould a bastion of peace and a symbol of what they wish to see for all of Mobius

 

 

Hm...I don't know about that. Sonic with out his speed is like Dovhakhin without his shout. Handicap him with limitations somehow? Sure, you could do that. But because he did so...he should be stronger innwardly than ever before.

 

 In EoT I have had to real creative in this aspect for Sonic, since Sonic is now coming in to his prime and now in excellent physical shape as well as developing his "other powers" (which I will keep spoiler free). But since their are more superpowered beings around from Dragons to Demons to Robian Death Machines, grand doomsday weapons, coniving normies that are smart enough to hurt him even in a direct fight, and whole militias in this expanded Mobius it got easier to take him down a notch and add tension to the narrative.

[RedAuthar]

 

 

 

This has been some excellent discussion.

 

Let's focus on Sonic's powers for a second. How would you balance him out (or have if you have written a Fan-Fic)?

 

I agree with the above idea, there's really no need to adjust him. If I want to play his powers down and not have them destroy the story, then I put him in a situation where his powers aren't of much use. You could also use one of the main ways you neuter a superhero: have the bad guy hold someone he/she loves hostage, so he has to come up with alternate and more ingenious ways of saving the day.

 

 

Yes. But showing every else as weak and him as strong all the time would be a bad idea. For one I'd like to see him in dire straights. He needs a kryptonite. Something that can slow him down.

 

You're still functioning on the idea that the situation can always be solved by Sonic's speed.  If the situation doesn't call for his speed than someone else is more useful and isn't weak.  

 

Depending on the situation even Antoine could be the most powerful Freedom Fighter for a job.  They are only "weak" when the situation doesn't call for their powers.  Sonic doesn't need to be weakened, the situations he face need to be more variable so that he isn't the only one who can solve the problems.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 

 

This has been some excellent discussion.

 

Let's focus on Sonic's powers for a second. How would you balance him out (or have if you have written a Fan-Fic)?

 

I agree with the above idea, there's really no need to adjust him. If I want to play his powers down and not have them destroy the story, then I put him in a situation where his powers aren't of much use. You could also use one of the main ways you neuter a superhero: have the bad guy hold someone he/she loves hostage, so he has to come up with alternate and more ingenious ways of saving the day.

 

 

Yes. But showing every else as weak and him as strong all the time would be a bad idea. For one I'd like to see him in dire straights. He needs a kryptonite. Something that can slow him down.

 

You're still functioning on the idea that the situation can always be solved by Sonic's speed.  If the situation doesn't call for his speed than someone else is more useful and isn't weak.  

 

Depending on the situation even Antoine could be the most powerful Freedom Fighter for a job.  They are only "weak" when the situation doesn't call for their powers.  Sonic doesn't need to be weakened, the situations he face need to be more variable so that he isn't the only one who can solve the problems.

 

 

What I'm trying to think about is how enemies could counter his speed when it is indeed approriate. Both modes of questioning are valid for adding dramatic tension to the narrative. I advise we look for awnsers towards both.

[RedAuthar]

Looking at the games there are many enemies that Sonic can't really hurt because his strength level is too low.  If Robotnik built more of them it would prevent Sonic's speed from being the main method of attack.

[TheRedStranger]

Looking at the games there are many enemies that Sonic can't really hurt because his strength level is too low.  If Robotnik built more of them it would prevent Sonic's speed from being the main method of attack.

 

Alright. The games are an excellent place to start. Let's list some and see how they could work in the context of Satam and our Satam related works.

[Uncle Ben]

This has been some excellent discussion.

 

Let's focus on Sonic's powers for a second. How would you balance him out (or have if you have written a Fan-Fic)?

 

I thinking of having it as the rings dont do anything...

 

But the other hand the emeralds do have long term negative effects.

[TheRedStranger]

 

This has been some excellent discussion.

 

Let's focus on Sonic's powers for a second. How would you balance him out (or have if you have written a Fan-Fic)?

 

I thinking of having it as the rings dont do anything...

 

But the other hand the emeralds do have long term negative effects.

 

 

Intresting. I've touched on this in EoT. But what are your ideas?

[Uncle Ben]

 

 

This has been some excellent discussion.

 

Let's focus on Sonic's powers for a second. How would you balance him out (or have if you have written a Fan-Fic)?

 

I thinking of having it as the rings dont do anything...

 

But the other hand the emeralds do have long term negative effects.

 

 

Intresting. I've touched on this in EoT. But what are your ideas?

 

 

Long term damage such as ages quicker, slowly slowly saps life force, lose of mobility etc.

[GamemasterAnthony]

There could be a few ways to balance out Sonic's speed.  In the original "Flash" TV series, the Flash had to eat a heck of a lot more to make up for his hyperpowered speed because his metabolism was also through the roof as well.  The same could be true for Sonic.  (Which could definitely explain Sonic love of chili dogs and the carbs that come with them.)

 

The Emeralds having long term effects from use is also possible.  Heck, during the original run of HOA, I had an idea for a series of fic during which the Gamemaster gained a hyper form from the Super Emeralds...but that form AGED him as he used it.  Something similar could be happening to Sonic as well whenever he uses the Emeralds...and, in fact, this could also tie in to what happened to Amy Rose when she got her paws on one.

[Mike Arcade]

Sorry to derail the Sonic Power Discussion, but I just rewatched the episode Super Sonic (which like many of the earlier episodes, has a very unfitting title) and must ask this, the hell was up with Lazaar's Guardian? Granted he was cool looking and all, but was he a Robot? Or some kind of Undead Guy? I'd imagine Necromancy is in Lazaar's Computer which would expain the guy's skullhead but still, also great episode.

[RedAuthar]

He's just re-heally ugly. 

[LogiTeeka]

I kinda wish we got to know Lazaar better. He looks human, but not quite... Is he an Overlander, or an elfin wizard? And what terrible things did he commit in the past which he now regretted? Heck, why was he put to sleep for all those years anyway? And why a computer?

A theory of mine thinks that he could've been one of the apprentices of Mogul during the Forgotten Wars, enslaving the primitive population and using them for magical experiments; but he started having second thoughts. When he fought back against his master, Mogul put him to sleep and sealed him away. But HIS apprentice, the Guardian, continued to protect him over the centuries; constructing various traps and obstacles around his master's resting place to prevent anyone from harming him. However, he remained oblivious to his master's change in heart and allowed passage to anyone who wished to continue his evil work as long as they didn't harm him.

[Captain Sorzo]

There could be a few ways to balance out Sonic's speed.  In the original "Flash" TV series, the Flash had to eat a heck of a lot more to make up for his hyperpowered speed because his metabolism was also through the roof as well.  The same could be true for Sonic.  (Which could definitely explain Sonic love of chili dogs and the carbs that come with them.)

 

The problem with that idea is that increased strain on Knothole's food supplies negatively affects all of the Freedom Fighters rather than just Sonic. It also wouldn't have much of a role in direct combat, which I believe is the issue in question.

[wildfire]

Sonic's biggest flaw, at least to me, lies in his personality.  He's brash, preferring to dive headfirst into any situation without thinking.  This of course is where the other core Freedom Fighters come in.  Sally's forward-thinking nature counters Sonic's "run headlong at it" attitude.  Rotor's ingeniuity (sp?) provides Sonic as well as the other Freedom Fighters with the tools they need to fight their rebellion in spite of their lack of resources.  Hell, even Antoine's cowardice serves a purpose, as it reminds Sonic to check himself from time to time.  The stakes are high, and Ant's not exactly wrong to be so terrified all the time.

 

On the subject of Sonic's abilities, I always believed they were the result of some clandestine experiments done during his mother's pregnancy with the expressed purpose of creating a means to combat Robotnik (or any other future threat).  This would have been done by Uncle Chuck, who I always thought had a deep mistrust of Julian.  That would also explain how Charles was able to invent a means to elevate these abilities, since he had a direct hand in their creation.  I read a fanfic once upon a time where a young Sonic grabbed his first Power Ring with a naked hand and it burned him rather severely, hence the gloves.  Also, we've seen these rings melt solid metal when energized.  I'd say it's pretty safe to assume they're dangerous to touch unless you know what you're doing.

 

One last thing, the drawbacks to Sonic's various abilities needn't be readily apparent.  For instance, I had intended for Sonic's first use of the Chaos Emeralds to be a massive wave of positive energy, wiping Doomsday from the face of Mobius as well as instantly de-robotosizing any nearby Robians.  This would inadvertently give rise to Shadow, a being made up entirely of negative energy on the other side of the planet.  A complete reversal of what Sonic had unleashed born out of the need for balance to be maintained.  Sonic, not knowing the nature of the emeralds, and again, not thinking, acts on impulse without ever realizing that he's also creating his greatest enemy.

 

Just my thoughts on the subject...

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 I read a fanfic once upon a time where a young Sonic grabbed his first Power Ring with a naked hand and it burned him rather severely, hence the gloves. 

 

Intresting concepts, all of them. Your last one was intresting as well. You should probably write that just to see what turns up.

 

So, I'm going to open everything up for review. Is there any questions you guys would like to go back to? Or do you new questions to throw into the fray?

[Uncle Ben]

I still wanna talk about the one i said a long time ago: In a post 9/11 world, would the Freedom Fighters be called that still, as Freedom Fighter has been associated with Terrorist, or would it be something different.

[TheRedStranger]

In the context of their own universe this is a positive term. There is indeed a fine line between a noble guerrilla group and a ignoble one. This is a theme that could be experimented with and has been in some cartoons, for example Jet's Freedom Fighters in Avatar. I think if you acknowledge the implications behind the term in your story you needn't worry about negative feedback. In fact it may enhance the subtext and plot issues within the story. Can they tow that line without succumbing to the temptations of war, those desperate solutions that sacrifice their humanity and erode their moral grounding?

[LogiTeeka]

I still wanna talk about the one i said a long time ago: In a post 9/11 world, would the Freedom Fighters be called that still, as Freedom Fighter has been associated with Terrorist, or would it be something different.

Like what TheRedStranger said: it depends on the context and how they're represented.

In this case, the Knothole Freedom Fighters have more in common with the Americans during the Revolutionary War; standing up for their rights of freedom against a tyrant who seeks to extinguish it and use them for his selfish desires for power. You can also compare them to the U.S./U.K. during WWI, WWII, and the Cold War; the enemy is clearly evil, so they have to keep their guard up and continue to oppose them in any way they can.

In many ways, Robotnik is like an amalgamation of every enemy during those periods. His name is Polish for "worker" during the Soviet takeover, is represented by the color red, his gradual takeover echoes that of both Hitler and Stalin's rise to power, and his use of Robotization is similar to Hitler's "final solution" as well as Stalin's "Great Purge". Add to the fact that he is also a mass industrialist and a military strategist.

[TheRedStranger]

 

I still wanna talk about the one i said a long time ago: In a post 9/11 world, would the Freedom Fighters be called that still, as Freedom Fighter has been associated with Terrorist, or would it be something different.

Like what TheRedStranger said: it depends on the context and how they're represented.

In this case, the Knothole Freedom Fighters have more in common with the Americans during the Revolutionary War; standing up for their rights of freedom against a tyrant who seeks to extinguish it and use them for his selfish desires for power. You can also compare them to the U.S./U.K. during WWI, WWII, and the Cold War; the enemy is clearly evil, so they have to keep their guard up and continue to oppose them in any way they can.

In many ways, Robotnik is like an amalgamation of every enemy during those periods. His name is Polish for "worker" during the Soviet takeover, is represented by the color red, his gradual takeover echoes that of both Hitler and Stalin's rise to power, and his use of Robotization is similar to Hitler's "final solution" as well as Stalin's "Great Purge". Add to the fact that he is also a mass industrialist and a military strategist.

 

 

Yes, Satam is so appealing to us because it's based in a post-colonial narrative just like Starwars. It is actually very much an American story, the American take on Sonic. Just like Godzilla is really about nukes to the Japanese Satam has some deep commentary about American ideals of liberty. 

 

Robotnik is very much like Stalin and Lenin when it comes to industrialisation and he is basically a unique form of eungenicist, "perfecting" the Mobian race. Satam is all about loosing your soul to modernism, it is very early postmodern narrative.

 

Now...in a 21st century context I'd say a hypothetical continuation of Satam should add in these issues. I would make temptations to do dark things, and as for Sally temptations to compromise her ethics for the greater good. There is a lot of personal struggle in war as well as outside struggle.

 

 "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy." -Christopher Dawson.

 

You could also bring in the issues of invasive homeland security and sacraficing freedom for that said security (think Edward Snowden/Patriot Act/ this scary piece of legislation.) You could really spice up the idea of the coupe with these real life issues.

[E122Psi]

In many ways, Robotnik is like an amalgamation of every enemy during those periods. His name is Polish for "worker" during the Soviet takeover, is represented by the color red, his gradual takeover echoes that of both Hitler and Stalin's rise to power, and his use of Robotization is similar to Hitler's "final solution" as well as Stalin's "Great Purge". Add to the fact that he is also a mass industrialist and a military strategist.

 

Should I be embarrassed that I originally thought Robotnik was just a bad pun of 'robot' and 'beatnik'?