564 replies to this topic

[TheRedStranger]

Other Overlanders/Humans. Why havent we seen any if they are in it? Also Why no other nations/factions

 

EoT digs deep into this.

 

But I suspect Robotnik is resource-hungry and not focused on the Freedom Fighters as a major threat for such a long time for a reason. I think there were other groups out there that put up a better fight after the coupe.

[RedAuthar]

Other Overlanders/Humans. Why havent we seen any if they are in it? Also Why no other nations/factions

They briefly hint of other nations when talking about Lupe and the Wolfpack's history.  

 

Also considering the show was from the view of the Knothole Freedom Fighters, likely they didn't know about what was going on elsewhere in the world.

 

As for the other humans...the depends on if you think Laazar and Naugus count. 

[LogiTeeka]

Other Overlanders/Humans. Why havent we seen any if they are in it? Also Why no other nations/factions

Ben Hurst originally had plans to depict Robotnik and Snively as sole survivors of a space colony (the ARK perhaps) that somehow traveled into the future and witnessed humanity's fall as animals took their place. From the sounds of it, they might've been the last of their kind (unless he there were some obscure surviving communities).

As for the other humans...the depends on if you think Laazar and Naugus count.

I highly doubt Naugus was intended to be human; not with that claw, horn, tail, and everything else of his (unless he was a mutant). Laazar, however, I could see as a potential human being; though that too is questionable due to his elfin-like appearance.

The only other human I've seen in anything SatAM-related was in the "Sonic Underground" episode "Winner Fakes All", when Sonic rushes past a teenage girl walking the streets of Robotropolis and blows her dress Marilyn Monroe-style. She only appears for a brief second, but it had me curious. But since most fans don't like to mention the show (much less connect it with SatAM), I guess that technically doesn't count.

[RedAuthar]

 

As for the other humans...the depends on if you think Laazar and Naugus count.

I highly doubt Naugus was intended to be human; not with that claw, horn, tail, and everything else of his (unless he was a mutant). Laazar, however, I could see as a potential human being; though that too is questionable due to his elfin-like appearance.

 

Remember how much Snively looks like a human.  

Like I said, it depends on if you think they count.  If they're human enough for you, they count.  If they're not...well there ain't no humans save Snively and Robotnik.

 

Though I highly doubt Hurst wouldn't introduce more Human Characters, even if they were only in a flashback thing to explain Robotnik and Snively's survival on the ship thing. 

 

 

 

The only other human I've seen in anything SatAM-related was in the "Sonic Underground" episode "Winner Fakes All", when Sonic rushes past a teenage girl walking the streets of Robotropolis and blows her dress Marilyn Monroe-style. She only appears for a brief second, but it had me curious. But since most fans don't like to mention the show (much less connect it with SatAM), I guess that technically doesn't count.

 

Well it doesn't count for SatAM.  

 

I'm neutral on the whole Underground thing.  I like some episodes, and even some of the songs aren't terrible (specifically if you compare any to the Super Mario Supershow Songs).  However even when muting the songs, the show just doesn't hold my interest.  Some episodes are really good.  Others....like the whole Sea-Sponge-Pirate, and the Whale, and whatever was going on in that episode, just.....well...shouldn't be there.  They were a waste of time in my opinion. 

[E122Psi]

In fairness, how many of the same species did we see in the show. The only clear divisions we got were dragons and the Wolf Pack (all of whom were limited to one specific fraction). The only other characters of same species as Sonic and Sally were their relatives and everyone else just seemed almost one of a kind, which the humans (Robotnik, Snively and potentially Lazarr) actually outnumber.

 

People didn't really question single members of species in other medias, or even why they don't have family members. It's just one of those benefits of being a cute cartoon, no one really cares. Admittedly Satam's more serious storyline maybe took away a bit of suspension of disbelief in this, especially since the Freedom Fighters were all supposedly kids during his takeover (though Robotnik thoroughly wiping out most existing life on the planet gave a lot of leeway to this).

[RedAuthar]

You do have an interesting point there.  Sonic and Chuck seem to be the only hedgehogs, Sally and her father are the only....whatever species she is because everyone keeps saying different things, and so on and so on.  Technically I guess Robotnik and Snively being the only humans fits relatively well in.  

 

Here's a question:

What do you think happened to Rosie after her return?  She's never seen again, or even talked about for that matter.  Did she stay in Knothole?  Did they relocate her?  Heck what happened to her in the first place that made them want to bring her back?

 

Heck I'll one up it, any of the minor characters such as the cannibals, Robecca, Muttski, etc.  Just what do you think happened after they stopped having screen time?

[LogiTeeka]

As for the other humans...the depends on if you think Laazar and Naugus count.

I highly doubt Naugus was intended to be human; not with that claw, horn, tail, and everything else of his (unless he was a mutant). Laazar, however, I could see as a potential human being; though that too is questionable due to his elfin-like appearance.

Remember how much Snively looks like a human.
Like I said, it depends on if you think they count. If they're human enough for you, they count. If they're not...well there ain't no humans save Snively and Robotnik.

Though I highly doubt Hurst wouldn't introduce more Human Characters, even if they were only in a flashback thing to explain Robotnik and Snively's survival on the ship thing.

Good point. Though with Robotnik and Snively, they still retained normal human characteristics (human ears, hands, bodies, ect.). Their appearances were exaggerated in the same style as the humans seen in "Unleashed" were; a Pixar-like caricature appearance.

Naugus, on the other hand, hardly looked human at all; due to his lobster claw, large horn and ears, long tail, and sharp teeth.

The only other human I've seen in anything SatAM-related was in the "Sonic Underground" episode "Winner Fakes All", when Sonic rushes past a teenage girl walking the streets of Robotropolis and blows her dress Marilyn Monroe-style. She only appears for a brief second, but it had me curious. But since most fans don't like to mention the show (much less connect it with SatAM), I guess that technically doesn't count.

Well it doesn't count for SatAM.

I'm neutral on the whole Underground thing. I like some episodes, and even some of the songs aren't terrible (specifically if you compare any to the Super Mario Supershow Songs). However even when muting the songs, the show just doesn't hold my interest. Some episodes are really good. Others....like the whole Sea-Sponge-Pirate, and the Whale, and whatever was going on in that episode, just.....well...shouldn't be there. They were a waste of time in my opinion.

To be fair, SatAM had just as many problems as "Underground" did. The only difference is that more people grew up with SatAM, thus they have more attachment to that particular series. But for me, I grew up watching "Sonic X" and later watched both series simultaneously when my interest in the franchise returned. I saw the flaws in both shows, but I still enjoyed them for what they had to offer and their different take on the Sonic mythos.

Since "Underground" was originally planned to be part of SatAM and DIC claimed that the final show served as a prequel, I just accepted it. I mean, the Archie comics are a separate entity and were only loosely "inspired" by SatAM, so they have little in common in terms of continuity (and what Hurst had planned for the show only serves to further separate them). I guess you could call SatAM/Undergound the "DIC universe" or something.

[RedAuthar]

 

 

The only other human I've seen in anything SatAM-related was in the "Sonic Underground" episode "Winner Fakes All", when Sonic rushes past a teenage girl walking the streets of Robotropolis and blows her dress Marilyn Monroe-style. She only appears for a brief second, but it had me curious. But since most fans don't like to mention the show (much less connect it with SatAM), I guess that technically doesn't count.

Well it doesn't count for SatAM.  
 
I'm neutral on the whole Underground thing.  I like some episodes, and even some of the songs aren't terrible (specifically if you compare any to the Super Mario Supershow Songs).  However even when muting the songs, the show just doesn't hold my interest.  Some episodes are really good.  Others....like the whole Sea-Sponge-Pirate, and the Whale, and whatever was going on in that episode, just.....well...shouldn't be there.  They were a waste of time in my opinion.

To be fair, SatAM had just as many problems as "Underground" did. The only difference is that more people grew up with SatAM, thus they have more attachment to that particular series. But for me, I grew up watching "Sonic X" and later watched both series simultaneously when my interest in the franchise returned. I saw the flaws in both shows, but I still enjoyed them for what they had to offer and their different take on the Sonic mythos.

Since "Underground" was originally planned to be part of SatAM and DIC claimed that the final show served as a prequel, I just accepted it. I mean, the Archie comics are a separate entity and were only loosely "inspired" by SatAM, so they have little in common in terms of continuity (and what Hurst had planned for the show only serves to further separate them). I guess you could call SatAM/Undergound the "DIC universe" or something.

 

To be fair, I didn't grow up with either.  Yeah I knew of both, but I just never was able to watch either on TV.  

 

I grew up on the Comic (all wopping 4 issues I had, the rest I borrowed from the library cuz at the time I could do that).  Sonic X was the first Show I actually followed.  At the time I still didn't comprehend that Archie Sonic and SEGA Sonic were different so i just kept wondering when they were going back to Mobius.

 

 

I didn't watch Sonic Underground till I heard about it's conclusion going to appear in Sonic Universe.  Not wanting to miss out I began watching the series.  True I started watching SatAM earlier, but still.

 

Also I do LIKE Underground's concepts (I'm using a lot in my fan fic).  I just feel the Show has a lot more "Meh" in it than good.   

SatAM has less "Meh" and more "Awesome" and "what the crap was that!?"

[Captain Sorzo]

To be fair, SatAM had just as many problems as "Underground" did. The only difference is that more people grew up with SatAM, thus they have more attachment to that particular series.

 

Not. Even. Close.

 

For all its flaws, SatAM generally remains very enjoyable to watch. Beyond that, it features a great deal of fascinating complexity in everything from characterization to themes. It's easy to look over issues like the shorts or even Dulcy, because they're ultimately superficial things that don't reflect the core essence of the world the show built; in many cases, it's that world that fans fell in love with, rather than a collection of episodes.

 

Underground, by contrast, is just painful to watch. In so many respects, it feels like a horribly botched version of SatAM. There's no effective humor or drama, no weight to the characters. While it did deal with some interesting ideas, such as the classes of Mobian society, at its core it revolves around the ludicrous concept of Sonic being part of a rock band with magical instruments that shoot lasers.

 

One can't simply use nostalgia to explain why SatAM still has an active cult following while Underground is almost universally reviled. I personally don't have any nostalgia toward either series; I grew up on AOSTH.

[E122Psi]

 

 

 

Here's a question:

What do you think happened to Rosie after her return?  She's never seen again, or even talked about for that matter.  Did she stay in Knothole?  Did they relocate her?  Heck what happened to her in the first place that made them want to bring her back?

 

Heck I'll one up it, any of the minor characters such as the cannibals, Robecca, Muttski, etc.  Just what do you think happened after they stopped having screen time?

I've heard claims that Rosie was planned to be in more episodes for continuity purposes but executives were against it. Is this true?

 

To be fair, SatAM had just as many problems as "Underground" did. The only difference is that more people grew up with SatAM, thus they have more attachment to that particular series. But for me, I grew up watching "Sonic X" and later watched both series simultaneously when my interest in the franchise returned. I saw the flaws in both shows, but I still enjoyed them for what they had to offer and their different take on the Sonic mythos.

Since "Underground" was originally planned to be part of SatAM and DIC claimed that the final show served as a prequel, I just accepted it. I mean, the Archie comics are a separate entity and were only loosely "inspired" by SatAM, so they have little in common in terms of continuity (and what Hurst had planned for the show only serves to further separate them). I guess you could call SatAM/Undergound the "DIC universe" or something.

 

I truthfully have to agree with this really. Satam is good, but with clear flaws, and the same can be said for all the Sonic cartoons really. For nearly everything good one has over the other, it has something bad the other prevails in. In the end I think it really comes down to genre preference which one garners your interest the most.

 

I haven't seen much of Underground, but from what I have, it does mostly seem to fall into the same 'step back step forward' territory (eg. better moderation in whimsy/darkness ratio and suspension of disbelief (and thus avoiding looking too pretentious), the siblings having a more even handed dynamic of positive and negative traits compared to the strict hierarchies of competence Sonic, Sally and Antoine usually had, albeit in contrast to it's occasionally cringeworthy cheesiness (and out and out weirdness), ugly character designs and those freakin' songs). I could be looking at the minority here though so if I'm wrong please correct me.

 

It's not my tastes as much as Satam or the others, but there are some things I appreciate about it and even wish the others had taken note from in some way, and vice vera.

[TheRedStranger]

 

To be fair, SatAM had just as many problems as "Underground" did. The only difference is that more people grew up with SatAM, thus they have more attachment to that particular series.

 

Not. Even. Close.

 

For all its flaws, SatAM generally remains very enjoyable to watch. Beyond that, it features a great deal of fascinating complexity in everything from characterization to themes. It's easy to look over issues like the shorts or even Dulcy, because they're ultimately superficial things that don't reflect the core essence of the world the show built; in many cases, it's that world that fans fell in love with, rather than a collection of episodes.

 

Underground, by contrast, is just painful to watch. In so many respects, it feels like a horribly botched version of SatAM. There's no effective humor or drama, no weight to the characters. While it did deal with some interesting ideas, such as the classes of Mobian society, at its core it revolves around the ludicrous concept of Sonic being part of a rock band with magical instruments that shoot lasers.

 

One can't simply use nostalgia to explain why SatAM still has an active cult following while Underground is almost universally reviled. I personally don't have any nostalgia toward either series; I grew up on AOSTH.

 

 

Also the possibility of this said world. Satam has inspired me so much as writer and artist in my short time knowing it. I thank everyone who worked so hard to make Sonic and his world avaiable to all of us, and I hope it's wonderful lore grows for the better over the years.

 

 Ps. This my 500th post! What do I win guys?

[E122Psi]

What else?:

 

 

Concerning Underground, I at least appreciate that they tried taking some concepts and dynamics from Satam, and tweaking them to work better into the story (there's probably less to make of an Underground Reconstructed anyway).

 

For example Underground used the trio dynamic that most later episodes of Satam did, however since the main heroes were streamlined to just a trio of equals drifting across the world, it worked better than a base of a dozen or so heroes or were constantly discarded in favor of these recurring three (one of which was a Straw Loser with no real useful qualities). It also tended to use limelight episodes more evenly between the three to even out their individual personalities, while Satam mostly only did ones for Sonic, with most of the cast underplayed outside how they foiled him (as likable as they may be they did not get a lot of stories and development to themselves).

 

Also, while maybe not having the same atmosphere and mystique as the Satam version, I feel Underground's Robotnik's motivations and plotting was a bit more solid, still keeping some civilizations alive so he could intimidate them for power and fortune (something that kinda feels more adequate to an egotist such as himself), rather than just wanting to wipe out any sign of natural life on the planet because it seemed a mean thing to do.

 

I could argue the more consistently whimsical setup also made it easier to fall on when some plot points didn't add up as well (Satam gained more ambitious and dramatic plotlines in place of this, but when it fell, it fell much harder).

[Hammer]

Well, who said that theory about SU being a sequel of SatAM because of the (King Max?) statue in episode 1 and the royal family being hedgehogs? I really liked it, it had a Zelda-esque concept with the hero coming back and all that.

 

If you imagine SU as being "the original Sonic (and Sally?)'s descendants fighting in a future world against Robotnik's clone/long-time frozen version/son and his forces, to prevent Mobius from going through the same nightmare as generations ago", it looks like a good premise. Kind of like that Lupin VIII pilot...

[LogiTeeka]

Well, who said that theory about SU being a sequel of SatAM because of the (King Max?) statue in episode 1 and the royal family being hedgehogs? I really liked it, it had a Zelda-esque concept with the hero coming back and all that.
 
If you imagine SU as being "the original Sonic (and Sally?)'s descendants fighting in a future world against Robotnik's clone/long-time frozen version/son and his forces, to prevent Mobius from going through the same nightmare as generations ago", it looks like a good premise. Kind of like that Lupin VIII pilot...

Actually, the scene with King Acorn's statue was a scrapped leftover from the SatAM episode "Blast from the Past: Part 1". If you read the original script over on Saturday Morning Sonic, the description of Robotnik's coup matches the shot perfectly, with the statue crumbling to pieces as the Destroyer's shadow passes over it. Since the scene wasn't in the final episode, Hurst probably reused it when he was hired to write the "Underground" pilot episode.

As for Sonic's family being royal, we were never told anything about Sonic's backstory in SatAM (other than him being raised by Uncle Chuck), so there wasn't anything wrong with him being a potential prince. In fact, throughout the show, Queen Aleena was never said to be ruler of Mobotropolis; rather, she hailed from the mysterious kingdom of Mobodoon. And judging by the presence of King Acorn's statue in the beginning of the show, it's safe to say Mobotropolis was still ruled by the Acorn family when Robotnik took over.

That's an interesting theory though, with "Underground" being set in the future. But that sorta raises the question as to what Robotnik was doing there. In that theory's universe, was he sent into the distant future by the Doomsday device instead of the Void as originally planned?

[TheRedStranger]

Okay guys here is Project for you!

 

Let's Build a better Mobius.

 

http://fc06.devianta...aku-d1ume1p.jpg

 

 We are going to start with this and just ask questions about the areas.

 

 What could be there in the future? What were the cultures like before the war? Why is eveything "Great?" Did they get Tony the Tiger to do the Cartography?

[Captain Sorzo]

 Did they Tony the Tiger to do the Cartography?

 

Given that he's a sentient anthropomorphic animal...you just might be on to something there.

[RedAuthar]

Okay guys here is Project for you!

 

Let's Build a better Mobius.

 

http://fc06.devianta...aku-d1ume1p.jpg

 

 We are going to start with this and just ask questions about the areas.

 

 What could be there in the future? What were the cultures like before the war? Why is eveything "Great?" Did they Tony the Tiger to do the Cartography?

Uh...why is Robotropolis right smack dab in the middle of the Great Forest?

 

Robotropolis was the City of Mobotropolis, which was near the forest not in it. 

[TheRedStranger]

 

Okay guys here is Project for you!

 

Let's Build a better Mobius.

 

http://fc06.devianta...aku-d1ume1p.jpg

 

 We are going to start with this and just ask questions about the areas.

 

 What could be there in the future? What were the cultures like before the war? Why is eveything "Great?" Did they Tony the Tiger to do the Cartography?

Uh...why is Robotropolis right smack dab in the middle of the Great Forest?

 

Robotropolis was the City of Mobotropolis, which was near the forest not in it. 

 

 

Only map I can find. 

 

But if you want break the bounds. Be my guest.

[Hammer]

That's an interesting theory though, with "Underground" being set in the future. But that sorta raises the question as to what Robotnik was doing there. In that theory's universe, was he sent into the distant future by the Doomsday device instead of the Void as originally planned?

That's why I said that he could be a clone, his descendant (not through mating I suppose) or he himself, frozen for (hundreds?) of years.

[Uncle Ben]

Here's an observation: did anyone else notice that in Season 1 all male Mobians seemed to not have any eye colour? And in Season 2 only Sonic and Tails remained sans iris colour. Also, Antoine had blue eyes as an adult, but red as a child.

 

Come to think of it yes i did notice it