564 replies to this topic

[Uncle Ben]

Withoutta doubt

[Uncle Ben]

How does the ring energy bring a Robian's original personalility and subconscious, before they are roboticized, back?

[RedMenace]

How does the ring energy bring a Robian's original personalility and subconscious, before they are roboticized, back?

I don't know that it does. In Uncle Chuck 's case, I think it was just his deep personal connection with them that jogged his memory. He did create them, after all.

[TheRedStranger]

How does the ring energy bring a Robian's original personalility and subconscious, before they are roboticized, back?

 

 If mere recollection could inspire Robians to restore their personal and volitional faculties then being in the husk of their former capital, seeing Freedom Fighters they once knew and/or loved, or interaction with any semblance from their past could mentally unfetter them and that just doesn't happen, case in point being the episode we first see Uncle Chuck.  There seems to be some form of volitional empowerment the rings give to the user. Though these rings were invented and crafted doesn't mean the elements involved in their craftsmanship follow some form of natural law. It is more likely that the truth of these rings lend itself to some form of metaphysical empowerment against the supermaterialst state of roboticization, which works metanarratively with the tone and subtext of the show.

[Captain Sorzo]

Stranger more or less nailed it. All forms of magic in the show can be seen as metaphors for the strength of the soul, with the Power Rings essentially helping to manifest and strengthen one's essence. The Deep Power Stones did the same thing on a greater scale, hence why on a literal level they share the same type of energy.

 

So in the case of Uncle Chuck, it's a matter of his spirit being empowered to the point that he can overthrow the control of roboticization. There's no solid literal explanation, but when viewed in a metaphorical light it is thematically consistent with the rest of the series.

[TheRedStranger]

Stranger more or less nailed it. All forms of magic in the show can be seen as metaphors for the strength of the soul, with the Power Rings essentially helping to manifest and strengthen one's essence. The Deep Power Stones did the same thing on a greater scale, hence why on a literal level they share the same type of energy.

 

So in the case of Uncle Chuck, it's a matter of his spirit being empowered to the point that he can overthrow the control of roboticization. There's no solid literal explanation, but when viewed in a metaphorical light it is thematically consistent with the rest of the series.

 

 This is the beauty of this show. It pulled off what preachy cartoons in the 90's (like Ted Turner's Captain Planet and The Page Master) couldn't pull off when it came to dolling out relevant and edifying commentary to it's audience. Like Starwars it brought a magical tone, spirtual themes, and metaphysical truth claims into a sci-fi context and even critiqued the dark flaws of 20th century modernity. If the show says anything it's this: "Technological progress without individual progress, spirtuality, and a remembrance of our history, heritage, and ideals we have long conserved to, will ultimately encourage our capacity for inhumanity and tyranny, lead to mass suffering, enviromental damage, and the death of culture." In other words Satam is one of the first (and in my humble opinion one of the most sucessful) postmodern cartoons. In resonance with films like Nicholas Meyer and Denny M Flenn's Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country and games like Hideo Kojimma's Metal Gear Solid during the time, it has a lot to say to the people that were watching the show during the day. The great thing is that it's subtext was so subtly engrained in the narrative that morals didn't seem so overly self-concious and thus so noticably preachy like Turner's shlock work . Also, though twenty-years later, the moral of the show still rings true to us today.

[Captain Sorzo]

 If the show says anything it's this: "Technological progress without individual progress, spirtuality, and a remembrance of our history, heritage, and ideals we have long conserved to, will ultimately encourage our capacity for unhumanity and tyranny, lead to mass suffering, enviromental damage, and the death of culture."

 

That has to be the best summation of those thematic aspects of SatAM that I've yet seen. Very well said.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 If the show says anything it's this: "Technological progress without individual progress, spirtuality, and a remembrance of our history, heritage, and ideals we have long conserved to, will ultimately encourage our capacity for unhumanity and tyranny, lead to mass suffering, enviromental damage, and the death of culture."

 

That has to be the best summation of those thematic aspects of SatAM that I've yet seen. Very well said.

 

 

 It's a truth-claim that resonates deep with my own convictions. It's the biggest reason I love Satam, besides the characters and the world (which have a huge part in the theme anyways).  Despite it's cancelation, I see that there is still a lot more Satam has to say to us even twenty years later. I think its thematic depths can still be deeply mined and sculpted into new and exciting stories. That is why I am writing  EoT. That is why I made this post. And I think, to some extent, this why we are all here today.

[Captain Sorzo]

In many ways, I'm actually glad that the show ended on a cliffhanger. The idea of the story being unfinished encourages the audience to give the series greater thought and consideration, in turn leading to a greater understanding of the wealth of depth it holds and in the case of many a desire to explore and expand that world and its themes and characters through writing.

 

If its lasting impact on the community is as strong as I believe it to be, the cliffhanger did more good for SatAM than an official third season (released without hiatus) possibly could.

[TheRedStranger]

In many ways, I'm actually glad that the show ended on a cliffhanger. The idea of the story being unfinished encourages the audience to give the series greater thought and consideration, in turn leading to a greater understanding of the wealth of depth it holds and in the case of many a desire to explore and expand that world and its themes and characters through writing.

 

If its lasting impact on the community is as strong as I believe it to be, the cliffhanger did more good for SatAM than an official third season (released without hiatus) possibly could.

 

I agree. It just made it an unique breed of underdog.  It just left an open door for the viewer and has encouraged and inpired many to make their own work (obvious example: Sea3on) . I really believe it did more good than harm in the long run. This was the same issue that actually gave Star Trek it's own film series and spin-off shows: it ended too soon and people wanted more. When Star Wars came out, Paramount , who owned the Star Trek property, decided to take a chance to cash in on the growing market based around the sci-fi genre. Even with a flubing first film (which you think would be the franchise's last chance and thus its death nail), it still did amazing with following film Wrath of Khan.  Now, look how succesful the franchise is today. The only problem that keeps Satam from doing this is most likely a galumphing Sega that has always been clumsy with sound market decisions with their hardware (Sega 32x, CD, the Saturn) and realizing profit potential for their software (Satam  exsists for them to exploit and they'd rather make Sonic a "werehog"). Seeing their questionable execution when it comes to everything story, that again might be a good thing...

 

I honestly believe the best way to end series is to not ... Think about a series that had too many definte endings (Mass Effect, Star Trek Generations when it killed Captain Kirk, Harry Potter and it's fan-panned epilogue). As a writer you must resolve the conflict of a series one way or another, but you ought never resolve the mystique of the story and the potential for more work unless you got something spinoff-wise to trump it with (which is hard to do). In a sense the Adventure should always continue, if not in a new offical work  then in the heart's of it's fandom. Basically put, end the story but never add the "everafter" after crap. When door closes, all the rest should stay open (Good example: The Star Wars EU). 

 

Again, compare the open ending of Star Trek VI ("Star on the right, straight on 'till morning) and the ending of Star Trek Generations ("Oh my..."). One resolves to much that was loved by many in all the wrong ways, Captain Kirk! Ending the orginal Star Trek characters and series arc at Star Trek IV was a brilliant idea...which the first TNG film trashed.  That could have happend with the official season three. You never know. I mean, season two was great plot wise for the most part but you could see some situations and characters like Robecca and her escapade that really broke the tone as akwardly forced cliched and flatly loony shlock  (one of the reasons I made this here thread as spring board for improvement). 

[TheRedStranger]

Here's a good one.

 

Sonic's unique physiology. As a "superhuman" what are his unique needs, psychology,  and physiological traits?

[RedAuthar]

Here's a good one.

 

Sonic's unique physiology. As a "superhuman" what are his unique needs, psychology,  and physiological traits?

I'd assume Sonic has trouble focusing.  I also think he'd get bored very easily, probably why he pranks everyone.

 

Sorta like Quicksilver in X-Men Evolution. 

[TheRedStranger]

 In EoT, since it's written tightly from the perspective of a select handful POV characters, I give some insight on my take on this.

 

 Sonic is hyper-perceptive and hyper-sensate much like a person with HFA or Asperger’s, therefore he is sensitive to touch, sight, smell, ect. Also, his neurology is overclocked to where he perceives time a bit slower than us, this dilation vacillates depending on various physical and mental factors (in EoT Sonic avoids caffeine like I would avoid crack - comedy ensues when the hedgehog accidently sips your coffee). While Sonic is "jucing" he perceives us all as Matrix rejects. Sonic also has a psycho-somatic need to move and expend energy.  Typically if he is uncomfortable he begins to feel a sharp tingle in his legs and feet. He also suffers from acute restless leg syndrome and very vivid night terrors when distressed. One cool benefit of his power is that he can pick up on things real fast, and this dramatically increases his kinesthetic intelligence (if he sees you a fly on a hoverboard or fix/fly the Tornado, he can repeat you only after a few tries). Just don't ask him innovate on its subtleties; he has to take time on that. His muscle memory and neuroplasticity pertaining to such are off the scale, he is a superhumanly athletic. His analytical nature gives him the ability to speed read and pick up on details making him very street smart. The problem with this is that retention is not understanding. He can swallow up a lot of information but digesting it is another thing. His sensory sensitivity also explains why Antoine gets on his nerves so easy...his shrillness is like cat-claws raking against a chalk board.   

 

 Sonic's body demands a dramatically increased caloric intake due to his high metabolism. Sonic has really strange eating habits. If he runs a lot he eats a lot. Yet if he hasn't done so then he can go without eating for a days due to the efficiency of his metabolism. Sonic also does the same with sleep. If over-exhausted Sonic will most likely "crash". The more he goes without rest while exerting himself the bigger amount of sleep deprivation he suffers. There have been times where Sonic has gone into a very deep sleep for periods extending over twenty-four hours (when injured this increases). Yet if he hasn't done so then he can go without sleeping for a days again due to the efficiency of his metabolism. Sonic can heal much faster than the average Mobian. Still, the symptoms of dehydration can affect Sonic quicker than average Mobians, because of his speedy metabolism. Sonic can only go a bit more than a day without ingesting liquids before suffering ill effects.

 

 As for Sonic’s immune system, it can rip through a cold or poison quickly. But he has to weather the symptoms. Sonic’s body resilient to many deadly diseases and toxins found on Mobius, yet he will still suffer from their symptoms one way or another. As with many stresses Sonic will begin to slow down and even temporarily hibernate if he becomes too sick or injured. Also, he can still be an asymptomatic carrier of a disease, making him a highly dangerous contaigen due to his speed. A speeding Thyphoid Marry ripping through downtown at mach one is bound to give Station Square's health deparment a busy day, eh.?

 

 Sonic’s bone density and muscle density are also notably different than the average Mobian, though Sonic can be shot, stabbed, cut, bruised, his bones and muscles can take extreme stress. Rips, fractures, sprains, all these things are nigh impossible for Sonic (though he has fractured his ribs and leg once in a fight).

 

Sonic fears he will not age like a normal Mobian due to a possible condition called negligable senence. That means Sonic might stay youthful all his life, and that life expectancy is unknown. I will let you ponder the implications of such.

[Hammer]

Think about a series that had too many definte endings (Mass Effect, Star Trek Generations when it killed Captain Kirk, Harry Potter and it's fan-panned epilogue)

I'm a hardcore HP fan and I loved the epilogue.

[TheRedStranger]

 

Think about a series that had too many definte endings (Mass Effect, Star Trek Generations when it killed Captain Kirk, Harry Potter and it's fan-panned epilogue)

I'm a hardcore HP fan and I loved the epilogue.

 

 

 Many don't, you must be the excepetion. Due note that my personal opinion about Harry Potter doesn't matter here and I was not commentating on such, it's about preception of the epiologue as a whole and the point I am trying to make about dealing with resolution within franchises. Also, don't be afraid to give reasons behind your opinions. Just don't say you love something, tell the world why you love it. People appreciate, respect, and are persuaded by your reasonings, not mere assertions. All it takes is a well placed "why" or "why not" to shrug off a position without points to make. 

 

 More importantly, do you have anything to say about the above statment that is relevant to the topics at hand?

[TheRedStranger]

 

Here's a good one.

 

Sonic's unique physiology. As a "superhuman" what are his unique needs, psychology,  and physiological traits?

 

I agree with much of what you wrote in your answer. He obviously has a very fast metabolism, which I believe he can control to some degree. There are definitely two "modes" for him physiologically in SatAM: one normal and the other "Juicing." In Hooked on Sonics, when he is forced to move slowly to avoid the radar and lasers he make the comment that "walking winds him" and showed signs of fatigue. Also it might have something to do with "magic" or "technomancy" if you will, because the wizard Lazar in Super Sonic simply turned off his super speed. I'd say that when he's in "Juicing" mode his food requirements and such would probably increase as well do to the higher metabolic rate.

 

Now, as far as psychologically his personality doesn't seem to change from one mode to the other; he has a big ego, but is not quite a full-blown narcissist; he does care for the ones around him, but at the same time thrives on attention and adoration.

 

 

 It's obvious that the origin of his physical prowess and powers has metaphysical elements. Laazar gets reintroduced in EoT and he explains to Sonic how he did so (but that's spoiler material). Also, he admits he can't do it to him anymore. Sonic is only 15/16 in Satam, his powers are far from fully realized, his full potential is yet to be tapped.  By the time he reaches 18 imagine what new cool things Sonic could do.

 

 Indeed, but his perception I can see changing a lot. You have to have some pretty wicked proprioception, equilioception, and reflexes to run safely at super Sonic speeds.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 It's obvious that the origin of his physical prowess and powers has metaphysical elements. Laazar gets reintroduced in EoT and he explains to Sonic how he did so (but that's spoiler material). Also, he admits he can't do it to him anymore. Sonic is only 15/16 in Satam, his powers are far from fully realized, his full potential is yet to be tapped.  By the time he reaches 18 imagine what new cool things Sonic could do.

 

 Indeed, but his perception I can see changing a lot. You have to have some pretty wicked proprioception, equilioception, and reflexes to run safely at super Sonic speeds.

 

 

I suppose that perhaps I should've said that Laazar "suppressed" his superhuman abilities rather than "turned off;" that would make more sense.

 

 

 He does indeed say that he feels drained. But he also "returns your speed" when he takes it from you.

[LogiTeeka]

I always thought the pilot episode took place within the Archieverse rather than the SatAM one:

 

For example, the mood is similar to the earlier issues (hence the goofier depiction), the cast's personalities closely match their Archie depictions, and stuff which was never brought back in SatAM (Muttski, badniks, personified Swatbots, ect.) were kept in the comics.

[RedAuthar]

 

Okay, question 2:

What became of Muttski and why didn't Sonic ever mention his beloved pet again? Now, I know this was covered in the comic, but I'm talking about SatAM here, which leads me to question three.

Remember it was pure chance that they Ran into Uncle Chuck when they did.  It's likely Sonic and Co just haven't found where Muttski is positioned.

 

Question 3:

Sonic is able to break through to his dog quite easily for a short time and even mentions running him back through the robotisizer to make him normal again. Why was Sonic able to break through to his pet so easily? Is it because of his animal intelligence gives him some sort of semi-immunity that the sentient Mobians don't have? And what of this easy way of just sending a Robian back through the Robotisizer; why was it not revisited later?

It was revisited later.  Uncle Chuck learns to fight it on his own as well.  Muttski just being a non-mobian Dog likely had a stronger will to obey his master at the time, but lost it when he got after he stopped desiring to make Sonic happy.

 

Alternatively, Sonic was able to trick the Computer into thinking he was Robotnik in the episode Sonic and Sally.  It could be Muttski was following orders which at the time allowed him to act as his former self.  However his Robotic program took back over when it realized it wasn't Robotnik giving orders.

 

Question 4:

Now this one really goes for most of the episodes. If you notice in almost every episode you see rats scurrying about; what's up with that? Are the rats real or are they robots themselves? If they are real, then why has Robotnik left them alone, or maybe the rats are immune to robotization?

What about the Giant Robot Rats that were attacking Grif (Griff?) and his group?  Likely Robotnik is Roboticizing them, but like regular folks, doesn't have the time or patience to get them all so they keep multiplying.

 

Question 5:

Robitnik makes some sort of a chemical like a super Agent Orange that will kill vegetation immediately on contact and has his Buzz Bombers attempt to drop them on The Great Forest. Why did Robotnik never try using this chemical again?

Likely the chemical was in short supply or was difficult to obtain or make.  Robotnik probably could afford the time or patience.  Also since only the Buzzbombers were using it, it's likely too dangerous for the regular SWATbots to carry.

 

Question 6: All of his non Robian robotic minions seem to have a will of their own and are shown even disobeying his orders. Now, other than in Harmonic Sonic I cannot think of another instance where robots seemed to have a form of free will, why was this changed for the rest of the series?

Sure they do.  Before Mentioned Computer in Sonic and Sally was afraid of getting hurt thus accepted Sonic's threats as proof enough he was Robotnik.  Also the SWATbots complain about the Radar/Sonar/Mobian Detection Device was always on the fritz and ignore investigating.  If they had no free will, wouldn't they always investigate?

 

Even the intro has one take off running from the wall of water.  Apparently they can at least fear.

 

Likely they never went into it, so the viewers wouldn't become too attached to the SWATbots, and feel bad when they were killed off.  

[RedAuthar]

 

 

Question 6: All of his non Robian robotic minions seem to have a will of their own and are shown even disobeying his orders. Now, other than in Harmonic Sonic I cannot think of another instance where robots seemed to have a form of free will, why was this changed for the rest of the series?

Sure they do.  Before Mentioned Computer in Sonic and Sally was afraid of getting hurt thus accepted Sonic's threats as proof enough he was Robotnik.  Also the SWATbots complain about the Radar/Sonar/Mobian Detection Device was always on the fritz and ignore investigating.  If they had no free will, wouldn't they always investigate?

 

Even the intro has one take off running from the wall of water.  Apparently they can at least fear.

 

Likely they never went into it, so the viewers wouldn't become too attached to the SWATbots, and feel bad when they were killed off.  

 

 

I forgot about those instances; it does seem like they have some sort of A.I. in their software.

 

Yeah.  Most were just minor instances, usually for comedic factor.  Like I said, the instances are rare, likely so we don't become attached to the SWATbots and feel bad when they die.  

 

Though alternatively, since the instances are few, they may just be glitches, or certain models have a more advanced A.I. so as to act as a command unit or guard.