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Fellow FUSer
Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:54 PM
It's not even that, really; in this new verse, she was never roboticized. Instead she was injured during Eggman's initial attack, and her limbs were given to her by Uncle Chuck as a means of saving her life.
Uncle Ben DOES NOT Approve
Of course you don't. In fact, you've been saying that a lot lately. I don't get what's so wrong with this...
Everybody's Favorite Uncle ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:00 PM
It's not even that, really; in this new verse, she was never roboticized. Instead she was injured during Eggman's initial attack, and her limbs were given to her by Uncle Chuck as a means of saving her life.
Uncle Ben DOES NOT Approve
Of course you don't. In fact, you've been saying that a lot lately. I don't get what's so wrong with this...
She was never roboticized. Thats whats wrong with it.
Fellow FUSer
Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:38 PM
It's not even that, really; in this new verse, she was never roboticized. Instead she was injured during Eggman's initial attack, and her limbs were given to her by Uncle Chuck as a means of saving her life.
Uncle Ben DOES NOT Approve
Of course you don't. In fact, you've been saying that a lot lately. I don't get what's so wrong with this...
She was never roboticized. Thats whats wrong with it.
So what? Instead of getting half way roboticized, she gets her robotics from injuries from Robotnik's first attack. That's way more interesting than having her go into a roboticizer, turn herself half robot, and then BOOM, Freedom Fighter.
The Soothsayer of Aeons.
Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:17 PM
It's not even that, really; in this new verse, she was never roboticized. Instead she was injured during Eggman's initial attack, and her limbs were given to her by Uncle Chuck as a means of saving her life.
Uncle Ben DOES NOT Approve
Of course you don't. In fact, you've been saying that a lot lately. I don't get what's so wrong with this...
She was never roboticized. Thats whats wrong with it.
So what? Instead of getting half way roboticized, she gets her robotics from injuries from Robotnik's first attack. That's way more interesting than having her go into a roboticizer, turn herself half robot, and then BOOM, Freedom Fighter.
I am with Ben. *Pulls out a gun and stands by his side.* Here I stand, and I will not falter.
No...no! it gets rid of a living symbol, a character arc the readers can sympathize with that mirrors the suffering of their people and what the Freedom Fighters are fighting for...it's an empty and wasteful choice when you have the brilliant option of her character being a living microcosom of the Freedom Fighter's plight, and a horrible reminder of what Roboticzation does. Her aspirations mirror the very tone of the conflict and the overall subtext of dehumanization through an abuse/misuse of technology. In comparison, this is nothing to the dramatic and subtextual potential of this throughline. But nope says Archie! Let's make her a Robocop rip-off (Rabbocop?).
Her tears mirror the tears of all the enslaved Robians who no longer have tears to shed... Here she is just another unoriginal cyborg.
Fellow FUSer
Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:39 PM
It's not even that, really; in this new verse, she was never roboticized. Instead she was injured during Eggman's initial attack, and her limbs were given to her by Uncle Chuck as a means of saving her life.
Uncle Ben DOES NOT Approve
Of course you don't. In fact, you've been saying that a lot lately. I don't get what's so wrong with this...
She was never roboticized. Thats whats wrong with it.
So what? Instead of getting half way roboticized, she gets her robotics from injuries from Robotnik's first attack. That's way more interesting than having her go into a roboticizer, turn herself half robot, and then BOOM, Freedom Fighter.
Largely because it nullifies the more powerful subtext of her own personal arc; escaping enslavement at the hands of a very terrible enemy and being marked for it, chasing the hope of returning to a normal life and then learning that ultimately she can never go back.
While the incident itself was presented during the more humorous days, the characterization took that turn as things went on, and it was one of the more striking aspects of Bunnie's character, along with her fears of what it might do to her, fears which were realized when she learned that her limbs were poisoning her.
For her to simply be collateral damage, rather than the only one to escape Roboticization, ultimately takes away from the personal nature of what happened to her, as well as taking away that reminder of what the Freedom Fighters face if they should lose. Her condition the last time around was the result of her being deliberately targeted; here, she is just collateral damage, and there is really nothing particularly unique to this new backstory.
It's somewhat underwhelming, and furthermore it also takes away from Eggman's own villainy that this happened without him intending it. While definitely callous, it doesn't really stand out in any way, and diminishes the personal nature of the conflict.
SatAM and Sally Acorn Fan
Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:45 PM
No...no! it gets rid of a living symbol, a character arc the readers can sympathize with that mirrors the suffering of their people and what the Freedom Fighters are fighting for...it's an empty and wasteful choice when you have the brilliant option of her character being a living microcosom of the Freedom Fighter's plight, and a horrible reminder of what Roboticzation does. Her aspirations mirror the very tone of the conflict and the overall subtext of dehumanization through an abuse/misuse of technology. In comparison, this is nothing to the dramatic and subtextual potential of this throughline. But nope says Archie! Let's make her a Robocop rip-off (Rabbocop?).
Her tears mirror the tears of all the enslaved Robians who no longer have tears to shed... Here she is just another unoriginal cyborg.
I know I'm merely playing devil's advocate here, and while I completely agree with you and Ben, if you look at her before the reboot she was most likely going to meet her uncle to be "legionized" i.e. becoming a cyborg again. Now, I know it's another "magic wand" by Archie and Flynn, but they all remember what happened to her in the original timeline, and obviously their marriage still counts even though it apparently didn't happen in this new world.
The only thing that I am really worried about in this issue is that it seems like robotitization might be taking a back-seat or retconned entirely with all of Robotnik's goons apparently being flesh and blood and no one has run into a robian or mentioned it yet other than concerning Sally not being one unless I'm forgetting something.
The Soothsayer of Aeons.
Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:58 PM
No...no! it gets rid of a living symbol, a character arc the readers can sympathize with that mirrors the suffering of their people and what the Freedom Fighters are fighting for...it's an empty and wasteful choice when you have the brilliant option of her character being a living microcosom of the Freedom Fighter's plight, and a horrible reminder of what Roboticzation does. Her aspirations mirror the very tone of the conflict and the overall subtext of dehumanization through an abuse/misuse of technology. In comparison, this is nothing to the dramatic and subtextual potential of this throughline. But nope says Archie! Let's make her a Robocop rip-off (Rabbocop?).
Her tears mirror the tears of all the enslaved Robians who no longer have tears to shed... Here she is just another unoriginal cyborg.
I know I'm merely playing devil's advocate here, and while I completely agree with you and Ben, if you look at her before the reboot she was most likely going to meet her uncle to be "legionized" i.e. becoming a cyborg again. Now, I know it's another "magic wand" by Archie and Flynn, but they all remember what happened to her in the original timeline, and obviously their marriage still counts even though it apparently didn't happen in this new world.
The only thing that I am really worried about in this issue is that it seems like robotitization might be taking a back-seat or retconned entirely with all of Robotnik's goons apparently being flesh and blood and no one has run into a robian or mentioned it yet other than concerning Sally not being one unless I'm forgetting something.
Then we just have an aborted arc, left unfufilled... And a story that is really lost most of it's unique concepts. No, this isn't a "magic wand", it's scaple to the guts of the Sonic franchise. And now we have about three different parties trying to play surgeon and they all have hand on the handle of the blade, tugging against each other and they quarrel on where to cut open the story. It's just a sluaghterhouse of storyarcs that lacks a conhesive vision or desired tone. There is so much here that I see you could do with the resource pool that Archie has, but there not really doing anything unique, they aren't doing thing worthwhile. It just bums me out that they would drop so much so hastily and cheapen the story by ripping through it like this. It's like rebooting a movie right at the climax. :/ Kirk: "KHA- - *Genisis Wave* - Spock: -"aaaannnnn." See what I mean?
Note that I wanted this to work. I told people not to be hastey in judging. You people know me well and how I preach about being postivly and productivly discerning instead of harhsly and hackeneyedly critical. But I just think I got enough here to feel justified in saying: "I have a bad feeling about this.."
The Urban Ranger
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:06 PM
The Soothsayer of Aeons.
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:07 PM
Fellow FUSer
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:16 PM
Note that I wanted this to work. I told people not to be hastey in judging. You people know me well and how I preach about being postivly and productivly discerning instead of harhsly and hackeneyedly critical. But I just think I got enough here to feel justified in saying: "I have a bad feeling about this.."
Ditto. I too wanted enjoy this and to wait and see what this new verse had to offer.
Unfortunately, what I've seen thus far just feels like a very watered down version of the Satam/Archie elements, those that remain anyway. I'm sticking around to see where it all goes, but my confidence is not really all that high at this point.
Everybody's Favorite Uncle ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:22 PM
It's not even that, really; in this new verse, she was never roboticized. Instead she was injured during Eggman's initial attack, and her limbs were given to her by Uncle Chuck as a means of saving her life.
Uncle Ben DOES NOT Approve
Of course you don't. In fact, you've been saying that a lot lately. I don't get what's so wrong with this...
She was never roboticized. Thats whats wrong with it.
So what? Instead of getting half way roboticized, she gets her robotics from injuries from Robotnik's first attack. That's way more interesting than having her go into a roboticizer, turn herself half robot, and then BOOM, Freedom Fighter.
So you think its alright for Flynn to completely remove one of Bunnie's signature background/personal story elements
Fellow FUSer
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:26 PM
Her back story, for the most part, is still there. Bunnie becomes a cyborg as an after effect of a Robotnik attack.
Everybody's Favorite Uncle ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:33 PM
Her back story, for the most part, is still there. Bunnie becomes a cyborg as an after effect of a Robotnik attack.
Not really. As Stranger said, it gave people a constant reminder to whar Roboticization does to you. It lost a unique concept
The Spambot Killer.
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:34 PM
The Soothsayer of Aeons.
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:40 PM
First of all, Bunnie's origin in the comic sucked. She was caught stealing carrots from Robotnik's garden. One that ruins Robotnik's villainous appearance, and two, Bunnie ONLY joined the freedom fighters because Sonic Took pity and rescued her. Just for convienience she learned instantly how to use those robot parts to her advantage. It wasn't until they were REPLACED with cybernetic limbs did Bunnie start having any story out of this.
Second of all, even in SatAM Bunnie's robot parts didn't do anything for her. All we knew is she didn't like them. Ther is no motivation for her character other than to get rid of them. I find it unreasonable to claim SatAM Bunnie had a more motivational backstory when it was non-existent.
Thirdly I fail to see how BEING INJURED to NEAR DEATH being only able to SURVIVE becUse of cybernetic implants is a downgrade. Robotnik is just as dangerous, Bunnie is just as emotionally scarred, and since old Archie continuity made her unable to have them deroboticized anyways how it changes any future developement.
I could careless about the original origin. You could have gone in a more Satam direction and made something beefy out of this. But then...welp we just get a another 6million dollar man.
They were clunky, unfeeling, ungraceful, numb, unhealing, in need of repair, and all they had were brutallity. You need to abadon your male psychology for a second as well...think real hard. The counter arguments are in front of your nose.
You could do the same thing with the concept of Roboticization and get the best of both worlds. Again, I want you to think about this one. The counter arguments are in front of your nose.
Fellow FUSer
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:41 PM
Her back story, for the most part, is still there. Bunnie becomes a cyborg as an after effect of a Robotnik attack.
Not really. As Stranger said, it gave people a constant reminder to whar Roboticization does to you. It lost a unique concept
She wasn't the only one who had gone through roboticization, just look at Uncle Chuck! He has gone through much worse. He was taken away from his nephew and had to be a slave for Robotnik for about 10 years! Being fully roboticized and taken away from your family is way worse than having to be half way roboticized and having super awesome powers.
The Soothsayer of Aeons.
Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:49 PM
Her back story, for the most part, is still there. Bunnie becomes a cyborg as an after effect of a Robotnik attack.
Not really. As Stranger said, it gave people a constant reminder to whar Roboticization does to you. It lost a unique concept
She wasn't the only one who had gone through roboticization, just look at Uncle Chuck! He has gone through much worse. He was taken away from his nephew and had to be a slave for Robotnik for about 10 years! Being fully roboticized and taken away from your family is way worse than having to be half way roboticized and having super awesome powers.
I can't believe none of you can't see that there is a third option here that could have been a powerhouse of personal arc. 
And isn't that taken away from us as well? Is that really prominant now? How does this effect the present conflict and character arcs now?
Fellow FUSer
Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:12 PM
The general concept of roboticization isn't lost. A "what-if" scenario concept was just replaced with another real world concept that people can relate to.
SatAM and Sally Acorn Fan
Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:42 PM
I still wonder if Robotitization has been retconned or at least being placed into the far background. Robotnik using flesh and blood and pure robot toadies? And has anyone else taken note that other than those who remember the old timeline remembering Sally being a robot robotization is not being talked about. Unless someone can show me proof that it is still being talked about other than in regards to Sally I think Robotization might be gone with Mobius.
Everybody's Favorite Uncle ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:45 PM
I still wonder if Robotitization has been retconned or at least being placed into the far background. Robotnik using flesh and blood and pure robot toadies? And has anyone else taken note that other than those who remember the old timeline remembering Sally being a robot robotization is not being talked about. Unless someone can show me proof that it is still being talked about other than in regards to Sally I think Robotization might be gone with Mobius.
It better not be
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