I find Robotnik's character development in issue 43 to be far more intriguing. It is evident judging from his dialogue with King Acorn that Julian possesses a righteous desire to bring order to Mobius. Despite being a malevolent character, Robotnik does truly believe that what he's doing is for the good of all--from the perspective of a malignant narcissist anyway.
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Who Should Sonic Be Making Out With?
Started by fishtheimpaler, Mar 12 2008 06:06 PM
298 replies to this topic
#281
Lord Exor
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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:53 PM
#282
Morgan
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Posted 13 October 2008 - 06:01 PM
You know, maybe I think Sonic and Robotnik should make out. There's some hot yaoi to be had there, y'all.
Why exactly is it important that Sonic has someone to make out with anyway? It's not important in life compared to all the other shit Sonic's got to be doing.
Why exactly is it important that Sonic has someone to make out with anyway? It's not important in life compared to all the other shit Sonic's got to be doing.
#283
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Posted 13 October 2008 - 07:25 PM
See, Viuely, thats what I wanted all along. You thought this well, and provided the picture proof. Thank you. It was long, but it was long for a reason.
#284
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Posted 13 October 2008 - 08:49 PM
I think it shows how the team dynamics of the freedom fighters is one of the strongest of any fictional team out there. Sally being Sonic's love interest also gives her a greater reason to try and talk sense into him at times, because she cares for him in a way the guys of the group can't.
#285
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Posted 13 October 2008 - 09:02 PM
QUOTE
I think it shows how the team dynamics of the freedom fighters is one of the strongest of any fictional team out there.
Explain why. Because I don't see how this dynamic is strong when Sonic doesn't even have a need for the Freedom Fighters (Save Sally) beyond their physical/congitive abilities. They might call themselves friends, but I still see their relationship as cold and distant. The story doesn't do much to show a very strong bond between Sonic and the others.
#286
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 01:50 AM
QUOTE ("Shorty":1w6dpscu)
QUOTE
I think it shows how the team dynamics of the freedom fighters is one of the strongest of any fictional team out there.
Explain why. Because I don't see how this dynamic is strong when Sonic doesn't even have a need for the Freedom Fighters (Save Sally) beyond their physical/congitive abilities. They might call themselves friends, but I still see their relationship as cold and distant. The story doesn't do much to show a very strong bond between Sonic and the others.
Then you read a totally different story than I do. It's simply your predisposition to not like Sally so you invent reasons not to. You nitpick every action the writers have given her.
Sonic has friends just like any other person has friends. Whether they are an integral part of his life or not doesn't matter. So you're right, he may not "need" them, but friends sure are nice to have. But as I said, the freedom fighters dynamic has, in my opinion, always worked well. It works well because each one of them brings something to the team. I'm sure you have friends, and I'm sure each of them has features that make them special. I don't have to give an academic explanation of why I like the team dynamics, it just works. And your reasoning for not liking Sally is no more profound than my reasoning for liking her.
Apparently we just read this story differently.
#287
Mithrandir
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 03:41 AM
What I took from that is that Sally, as the monarch-in-training, is the one typically expected to be the "mature voice" in the group; she's already supposed to be a bit of a mother figure for Tails, and she's expected to be the great plan maker out in the field, so it's not unexpected that she'd be the "responsible" one.
That's all well and good, but as I said before: that doesn't negate what the other characters bring to the table, either. Correcting another characters' shortcomings doesn't have to be a multi-character effort.
That's all well and good, but as I said before: that doesn't negate what the other characters bring to the table, either. Correcting another characters' shortcomings doesn't have to be a multi-character effort.
#288
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 08:43 AM
QUOTE ("bossmanham":3veuhni1)
QUOTE ("Shorty":3veuhni1)
QUOTE
I think it shows how the team dynamics of the freedom fighters is one of the strongest of any fictional team out there.
Explain why. Because I don't see how this dynamic is strong when Sonic doesn't even have a need for the Freedom Fighters (Save Sally) beyond their physical/congitive abilities. They might call themselves friends, but I still see their relationship as cold and distant. The story doesn't do much to show a very strong bond between Sonic and the others.
Then you read a totally different story than I do. It's simply your predisposition to not like Sally so you invent reasons not to.
Your asssumption no one can be annoyed with Sally and that it's some biological aspect about us that makes us dislike her is irrational. We may dislike SonSal but there's reason to it.
QUOTE
You nitpick every action the writers have given her.
I don't think of it as nitpicking. On some level majority of Sonic fans acknowledge Sally taking from the others for instance and don't like her. I think a lot of Sally fans are very lax and like to ignore the logics of the story itself (kind of like how Suethors ignore story logics) and consider people nitpicky when they point out how their actions don't fit with the story.
QUOTE
Sonic has friends just like any other person has friends. Whether they are an integral part of his life or not doesn't matter.
I'd say it matters because these characters are going to be featured regularly. I don't want Sonic to continue to have cold and distant relationships just to satisfy one character.
QUOTE
But as I said, the freedom fighters dynamic has, in my opinion, always worked well. It works well because each one of them brings something to the team.
They don't bring their personalities as something that is essential to Sonic's functional existence. All they really contribute regularly is their physical abilities or smarts.
QUOTE
I'm sure you have friends, and I'm sure each of them has features that make them special.
Except many of the people we deem friends may not be essential. We may not consider them close like family we may not have incredibly strong bonds. Our bonds may be relatively weak as we just "get along."
QUOTE
Correcting another characters' shortcomings doesn't have to be a multi-character effort.
It is if you want to show multiple characters' personalities playing special roles in Sonic's life.
#289
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 08:52 AM
QUOTE
I'm sure you have friends, and I'm sure each of them has features that make them special.
QUOTE
Except many of the people we deem friends may not be essential. We may not consider them close like family we may not have incredibly strong bonds. Our bonds may be relatively weak as we just "get along."
So your arguing that not every friend is needed. Well, when it comes to aquantenses (sp) I agree with you. They are the people whom you met at one time but never felt anything more then light friendship. But friends, they mean something. Each friend I have brings out a part of me that only they see. My best friend sees the real me, the college friends see the crazy funny side, the IM/Net friends see the obsessive fandom side....I could go on. If one of these friends were not be part of my life it would be hard to adjust knowing that I could never see them again for whatever reason. Each friend I have is like part of my family. My best friend IS family. My other close friends are like family, but in a lesser sense. Yet this dose not make them any less essential.
If not every one of your friends are essential, then why have them? Now when I comes to the light friend, those I can see not being as needed.
#290
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 11:41 AM
QUOTE ("SAA":1wn0y0q5)
QUOTE
I'm sure you have friends, and I'm sure each of them has features that make them special.
QUOTE
Except many of the people we deem friends may not be essential. We may not consider them close like family we may not have incredibly strong bonds. Our bonds may be relatively weak as we just "get along."
So your arguing that not every friend is needed. Well, when it comes to aquantenses (sp) I agree with you. They are the people whom you met at one time but never felt anything more then light friendship. But friends, they mean something. Each friend I have brings out a part of me that only they see. My best friend sees the real me, the college friends see the crazy funny side, the IM/Net friends see the obsessive fandom side....I could go on. If one of these friends were not be part of my life it would be hard to adjust knowing that I could never see them again for whatever reason. Each friend I have is like part of my family. My best friend IS family. My other close friends are like family, but in a lesser sense. Yet this dose not make them any less essential.
If not every one of your friends are essential, then why have them? Now when I comes to the light friend, those I can see not being as needed.
Apparently, the only way those friends mean anything is if they "balance your flaws."
I'm just as confused as you are.
#291
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 01:52 PM
WOW! Sonic is arrogant and rude. How can anyone date him without wearing how cool he is? <(O_o)>
#293
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 03:52 PM
The way I see things, Sonic was never meant to be a character that heavily relied on other characters for a large variety of things. Afterall, the Archie comics started with the original (and still most important) purpose of bringing a video game character into his own comic series. Get that? A video game character. These comics were meant to sell VIDEO GAMES. Comics meant to sell video games will not live up to the higher standards set by more established comic book franchises. You don't like how the other characters seem cold and distant to Sonic? Well too bad, because this comic is about the exploits of a video game character.
Even the SonSal dynamic is mainly built upon a sterotypical fictional relationship where the flaw that gets "balanced" is in reality a non-issue, since Sonic is never greatly inconvienced by his impulsiveness. All this alarmism over how SonSal ruins all the other dynamics means nothing since the SonSal dynamic is never elaborated upon enough to eat up time devoted to other characters; all Sonic and Sally did was go through the motions of a cliched character dynamic. Just like how Sonic and the others go through a standard proceedure where they work as a team in most issues. While this undevelopment may not fly for stuff made by DC or Marvel, Archie only needs to worry about promoting a video game where the star gets by better without having too much interaction with other characters (since Sega sucks ass at storywriting).
If you can't accept the horrible truth that Archie only needs standard action and romantic drama to promote a video game, then frankly you should just find a better comic to read. Go through Viuely's long post exploring SonSal; you'll find nothing there that really requires massive deviation from cliched character dynamics, which means that all the characters essentially go through the motions of playing out their part without ever really recieving any character development. Therefore, it is absolutely false to suggest that SonSal managed to ruin all the other dynamics since in reality, SonSal itself isn't greatly developed beyond generic roles.
Even the SonSal dynamic is mainly built upon a sterotypical fictional relationship where the flaw that gets "balanced" is in reality a non-issue, since Sonic is never greatly inconvienced by his impulsiveness. All this alarmism over how SonSal ruins all the other dynamics means nothing since the SonSal dynamic is never elaborated upon enough to eat up time devoted to other characters; all Sonic and Sally did was go through the motions of a cliched character dynamic. Just like how Sonic and the others go through a standard proceedure where they work as a team in most issues. While this undevelopment may not fly for stuff made by DC or Marvel, Archie only needs to worry about promoting a video game where the star gets by better without having too much interaction with other characters (since Sega sucks ass at storywriting).
If you can't accept the horrible truth that Archie only needs standard action and romantic drama to promote a video game, then frankly you should just find a better comic to read. Go through Viuely's long post exploring SonSal; you'll find nothing there that really requires massive deviation from cliched character dynamics, which means that all the characters essentially go through the motions of playing out their part without ever really recieving any character development. Therefore, it is absolutely false to suggest that SonSal managed to ruin all the other dynamics since in reality, SonSal itself isn't greatly developed beyond generic roles.
#294
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 04:07 PM
Well said. I wish I could say more then just that, but what more is there? You pointed out something good, and truthful. This is all just a comic there simply to sell the games.
#295
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Posted 14 October 2008 - 04:27 PM
I dunno guys. I don't see any more character development in Sider-Man or the Fantastic four, which rely heavily on action and cheezy romance, as does the Sonic comic. Frankly, I think for just being a comic that was meant to help sell video games, it's amazing how well Archie Sonic has done. You can possibly chalk that up to the SatAm heavy elements the comic has borrowed. While the comic is not flawless, it seems like the writers have taken their role seriously and tried to craft a compelling story.
As we all know, the SatAm team actually cared for their project. The tv show was also there to help sell video games, but the surprisingly well written story along with the memorable characters are what have kept a show that was cancelled after two seasons in the hearts and minds of its fans for so long. I think you see that in the comic, if maybe to a slightly lesser extent.
As we all know, the SatAm team actually cared for their project. The tv show was also there to help sell video games, but the surprisingly well written story along with the memorable characters are what have kept a show that was cancelled after two seasons in the hearts and minds of its fans for so long. I think you see that in the comic, if maybe to a slightly lesser extent.
#296
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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:04 PM
QUOTE
So your arguing that not every friend is needed. Well, when it comes to aquantenses (sp) I agree with you. They are the people whom you met at one time but never felt anything more then light friendship.
But we're arguing that the FFs don't really seem all that close to Sonic in practice. We don't see them as "true friends."
QUOTE
But friends, they mean something. Each friend I have brings out a part of me that only they see.
1. So your best friend brings out the real you and everyone else sees something that I'm assuming isn't the real you. So in actuality the ammount of people bringing out what you perceive to be you, is in fact quite small. That or what they bring out is not as important to you because your best friend can already bring out the real you. One of the problems with refferring to your personal life, is that you can say ANYTHING, whether it's true or not, illogical or not.
2. SAA, people do not have to be your friends to have witnessed the obsessive fandom side.
QUOTE
If one of these friends were not be part of my life it would be hard to adjust knowing that I could never see them again for whatever reason.
Let me put it this way: Do you value your friends as people or as objects? It is very easy for humans to have an attatchment to an object. This is reffered to as I-it love and is the sort of love we perceive Sonic having for majority of his friends at best. It can be understood to be a pretty strong attatchment, but it doesn't constitute the sort of bond we're talking about.
How does the personality of your friends add to your life? Can you personalize your friends? This is another issue I brought up, but I don't think I'm emphasizing this enough. Can you find something distinct about the personalities of those in your most inner circle that add to your life? I'm a triplet for instance. I have family they can perceive as being replaced by my other two sisters. There is no distinct need for "me" in that situation. It's distancing, and it's somewhat cold. Many of my family members still cannot tell us apart. Not because there's no differences in appearance (which there is, as well as difference in personality, style etc) but because they haven't taken the time to notice who WE are individually.
My bond with these blood relatives is a lot weaker than it is with those friends and family who are capable of looking at what we contribute as people to their lives as distinct. They are capable of valuing us as distinct individuals. Also, I'm not talking about services like buying you candy or stuff like that. That's loving them as an object. Maybe you can't have a very functional life without them providing those kinds of services but it's not the kind of attatchment that is very deep.
QUOTE
The way I see things, Sonic was never meant to be a character that heavily relied on other characters for a large variety of things. Afterall, the Archie comics started with the original (and still most important) purpose of bringing a video game character into his own comic series.
It's actually ironic this is being mentioned considering the new aged games especially incorprorate themes like the power of interdependence/friendship, teamwork, etc. In addition Sonic is not a romantic character.Given the themes running rampant in the games, strong bonds between friends to the effect of family is far better suited then focusing on Sonic's love woes with Sally. Also, the surrounding media was intended to expand on Sonic's character to make him likeable. SonSal wouldn't be an issue if they intended this. A hermit that doesn't need any friends does not make for a good read.
QUOTE
Even the SonSal dynamic is mainly built upon a sterotypical fictional relationship where the flaw that gets "balanced" is in reality a non-issue, since Sonic is never greatly inconvienced by his impulsiveness.
Sonic has gotten injured due to his impulsiveness, and has gotten off task in missions due to his impulsiveness for instance. He is in fact greatly inconvenienced by his flaws, hence why're they're called flaws.
QUOTE
All this alarmism over how SonSal ruins all the other dynamics means nothing since the SonSal dynamic is never elaborated upon enough to eat up time devoted to other characters; all Sonic and Sally did was go through the motions of a cliched character dynamic.
I find it totally funny how you're going to act like this is "alarmism" and that this doesn't matter when you were recognizing the problem and aiming to find a solution not so long ago. Anyway, you're strawmanning again. The problem we noted wasn't simply a matter of "screentime" in the first place. People who have difficulty articulating this problem often say it's a problem concerning screentime, but no. It's about making Sonic individualize these characters, valuing THEM (the individual), something distinct about their personality, and having an attatchment that is deeper than that of an object.
QUOTE
Comics meant to sell video games will not live up to the higher standards set by more established comic book franchises.
There is nothing about the fact Archie promotes a video game character, that makes it need to suck. I'm struck by this outright refusal to accept good writing. I'd also like to note that Archie and SatAM expanded in many ways the game universe. Sonic's relationship with Sally for instance is something you don't see in the games. You don't see a relationship where charcters are valued for the contributions of their personalities to Sonic's life. The fact Sally's been able to get away with this demonstrates SEGA has no problem with enriching the bonds of the charaters and expanding on the original material.
QUOTE
You don't like how the other characters seem cold and distant to Sonic? Well too bad, because this comic is about the exploits of a video game character.
I was actually one of if not the first to make mention that this book is about Sonic. However making Sonic's bonds with the other characters deep makes for a much better read: it utilizes better supporting cast members (that'd have to be featured anyway), by making these featured characters more relevant to the main character and adding dimension. This helps the comic improve in it's competitiveness with other books and it helps to get more and more people reading about Sonic. Secondly the logic of the story infers something that in practice isn't happenning. So you're breaking the logic of the story as well in order to preserve a pairing.
QUOTE
If you can't accept the horrible truth that Archie only needs standard action and romantic drama to promote a video game, then frankly you should just find a better comic to read.
Sonic doesn't have a overt love life in the games, so he sure doesn't need romantic drama with Sally to promote the games. If this is all about promoting the games, then ditch Sally and just pair Sonic with Amy. SonSal not properly promoting the games and Sonic Team has said he secretly is interested in Amy.
#297
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Posted 15 October 2008 - 03:23 PM
QUOTE ("Miko":1k3iodno)
QUOTE
So your arguing that not every friend is needed. Well, when it comes to aquantenses (sp) I agree with you. They are the people whom you met at one time but never felt anything more then light friendship.
But we're arguing that the FFs don't really seem all that close to Sonic in practice. We don't see them as "true friends."
QUOTE
But friends, they mean something. Each friend I have brings out a part of me that only they see.
1. So your best friend brings out the real you and everyone else sees something that I'm assuming isn't the real you. So in actuality the ammount of people bringing out what you perceive to be you, is in fact quite small. That or what they bring out is not as important to you because your best friend can already bring out the real you. One of the problems with refferring to your personal life, is that you can say ANYTHING, whether it's true or not, illogical or not.
2. SAA, people do not have to be your friends to have witnessed the obsessive fandom side.
QUOTE
If one of these friends were not be part of my life it would be hard to adjust knowing that I could never see them again for whatever reason.
Let me put it this way: Do you value your friends as people or as objects? It is very easy for humans to have an attatchment to an object. This is reffered to as I-it love and is the sort of love we perceive Sonic having for majority of his friends at best. It can be understood to be a pretty strong attatchment, but it doesn't constitute the sort of bond we're talking about.
How does the personality of your friends add to your life? Can you personalize your friends? This is another issue I brought up, but I don't think I'm emphasizing this enough. Can you find something distinct about the personalities of those in your most inner circle that add to your life? I'm a triplet for instance. I have family they can perceive as being replaced by my other two sisters. There is no distinct need for "me" in that situation. It's distancing, and it's somewhat cold. Many of my family members still cannot tell us apart. Not because there's no differences in appearance (which there is, as well as difference in personality, style etc) but because they haven't taken the time to notice who WE are individually.
My bond with these blood relatives is a lot weaker than it is with those friends and family who are capable of looking at what we contribute as people to their lives as distinct. They are capable of valuing us as distinct individuals. Also, I'm not talking about services like buying you candy or stuff like that. That's loving them as an object. Maybe you can't have a very functional life without them providing those kinds of services but it's not the kind of attatchment that is very deep.
1. What I meant is that each friend of mine gets to see a side of me that I sometimes don't show to others because I think those friends may not like what they see. My best friend gets to see my crazy side a little, my sad side a little, the mad side. She gets to see all the sides of personality because she has known me the longest. I have friends who mostly see the crazy fun side, like when I was one cool college and talked nothing but Family Guy. I have the friends through IM/FUS who get to see the fandom side. I can see why you might think that I only show my "True" self to best friend, but its really more then that. She knew me from the diaper days up to now so it's only natural that she gets to see more sides of me then most.
2. All I said was that friends see that fandom side. I never said you HAD to be my friend to see it. Your seeing it right now and we all know that friends is not a word for us.
3. I never think of my friends as objects. I could never do that. Each one of them adds to my personality by.....that is a good question to ask. I guess I don't know other then what they allow me to show. I say it like that because I know some friends would not be fond of the crazy side. I know for damn sure my best friend would HATE to see my Sonic side for more then a few moments. Sometimes I wonder how in the world we could be friends. But then I remember that we have so much history together, and that we knew each other way before society told what to like, how to act. But then I see her brake out in laughter when NO ONE has done anything and I remember that we are friends because we both laugh at nothing. But enough about that.
I can why you'd contend that Sonic only uses his so-called friends....and to that I have no opinion.
#298
The Man
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Posted 19 October 2008 - 12:32 AM
To kill 15 pages of debate if someone hasn't already, I don't think there's an answer to this question. If you leave it up to the court of public opinion and not Ben Hurst/past/present/future SatAM writer then you'll get different answers that don't mean anything.
Sincerely
-to be brutally honest.
They cannot use any of our ideas.
Sincerely
-to be brutally honest.
They cannot use any of our ideas.
#299
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Posted 19 October 2008 - 08:15 AM
That is true. I have tried to kill this debate by saying that if Sonic had been with someone else from the start we'd all be arguing her right now. But that never really stopped anything, just slowed things down.
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