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@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 11:25 AM)

Also I still have to figure out how to set up our e-mail accounts on the new host.

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As soon as I figure out how to restore it. Sorry, I know I said it'd be done by now, but I didn't expect to have to put up with this DNS crap and other issues that popped up.

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 07:56 AM)

So when's the black theme coming back??

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 07:56 AM)

"Should"

@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 07:27 AM)

That DNS took longer to propagate properly than I thought it would. *Now* we should be back for good, though.

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Or it might be because Bluehost *finally* got around to that server wipe (one week after we'd asked for it) and that wiped out our DNS settings. I'm not sure which and I don't really care. In any case, we've severed our last ties with Bluehost, so this will not happen again.

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Looks like Bluehost yanked our DNS since our hosting account expired. That's why the site went down a while ago. But as you can see, it's fixed now.

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No, they do not.

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The goggles do nothing?

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My eyes.

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Looks like forum uploads might have been broken since last night. That should be fixed now too.

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Heh, whoops! Server went down for a few mins when I borked the config. Looks like it's back up now.

@  Uncle Ben : (21 July 2015 - 09:09 PM)

It looked like a napkin

@  ILOVEVHS : (21 July 2015 - 09:04 PM)

Fan-fuckin-tastic.

@  furrykef : (21 July 2015 - 08:25 PM)

As for the beaver picture while the forum was down, I think Tim drew it. On a napkin.

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No kiddin' about that "Finally!", Shadow. I am *so mad* at Bluehost for never responding to our support ticket. I submitted it early Friday morning and they *still* haven't answered it!

@  Uncle Ben : (21 July 2015 - 06:37 PM)

Maybe he did that himself

@  Shadow : (21 July 2015 - 05:25 PM)

Say, who made the cute picture of Beaver Chief?

@  Shadow : (21 July 2015 - 05:24 PM)

Finally!

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Woooo! The site's back up! Three cheers for Kef!


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Who Should Sonic Be Making Out With?


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#1 fishtheimpaler

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 06:06 PM

In with the first thread on this utterly essential and inexhaustible topic. I feel like such a great fan.

Question and suggestion from someone who is struggling to catch up with the comics continuity: has Sonic ever cheated on any of his girlfriends? If not, this might be an interesting way to deal with this now impossible to deal with tension between his various possible loves. Perhaps he's officially with Amy while on "missions," etc., but then has clandestine, intense, and retrospectively shameful makeout sessions with Sally and/or Mina when the opportunity arises.

Advantages:

(1) Drama
(2) Makes character sense, because I get the impression that Amy is so smitten she'd let him piss all over her a potentially infinite number of times

Discuss.

#2 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 08:03 AM

Nah, Sonic's not a cheater. Well actually--the circumstance you proposed has never happened to say it couldn't. When Sally was with Sonic, Mina voluntarily gave up and so there really wasn't the option for Sonic to cheat, even if he wanted to. I could only imagine how it'd play out with Amy.

Taking your idea into consideration for a moment, the Amy fans would moan and complain. Furthermore it's really in Amy's nature to chase but not catch. If Amy actually caught Sonic the actual flare their dynamic has would be destroyed. Sometimes I wonder if some SonAmy fans realize that the Tom and Jerry dynamic between Sonic and Amy is what makes it different from all the other pairups between Sonic and a girl. But if not Amy, perhaps a female who is really image conscious and manipulative should be Sonic's official girlfriend and Sonic sort of has to reserve expressing his feelings for the others behind closed doors. Matter of fact, she may not even care very much if he cheats on her as long as long as no one knows about it. Another idea sort of related to that would probably be to create on a social level some discouragement towards people Sonic's age focusing on serious commitments. Again Sonic would have to be affectionate in private. Maybe he'd HAVE to deal with the other girls in order to create some ruse that he's not seriously interested, or he could just be taking advantage of the situation until he's truly ready to commit when he's older. It could be left up to the reader to decide which one he's the most serious in at the end.

Although I honestly think that one idea SonAmy fans reason all the time would be fairly sufficient:Sonic's too afraid that if he showes great interest in a girl, she could be put in greater danger than if they were just average friends. You'd then have to consider though why she then wouldn't be in any less danger as a friend.

#3 fishtheimpaler

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 09:40 AM

QUOTE ("Miko":3pkza9hz)
Another idea sort of related to that would probably be to create on a social level some discouragement towards people Sonic's age focusing on serious commitments.

You forget that a teenager's loves are EARTH SHATTERING and break-ups are WORLD SUNDERING BETRAYALS, because no one has ever felt so intensely about someone as me! I'm in love! I know it! He/She's the one!

QUOTE ("Miko":3pkza9hz)
Although I honestly think that one idea SonAmy fans reason all the time would be fairly sufficient:Sonic's too afraid that if he showes great interest in a girl, she could be put in greater danger than if they were just average friends.

Goddamn it, American fiction industry, not every superhero has to be Spiderman!

Additional comments: [Jung] I think who Sonic is with romantically determines what sort of story we have. Mina is from what I hear fairly similar to Sonic, yet a tad weaker emotionally and physically. Sonic with her is pretty straightforward; she puffs his ego, emphasizing his strength and power while at the same time sort of letting him make love to himself. This is in keeping with Sonic's spin-dash, an image of the infantile (a fetal position, resembling the uroborous), which also may be taken as an act of self-fellation.

Sonic with Sally, as many have pointed out, is if Sally is to remain a leader and politician more of an "opposites attract" sort of thing, which is fairly common in fiction too, as it turns the love relationship into a deeper engine of personal growth, as the lovers come to understand their opposites. Tons of great rocky relationships in the thinker/fighter vibe: John Crichton and Aeyrn Sun, Veronica Mars and Logan Echolls. It is love in the heroic mode, as they would say. Of course, for a comic book or other serial format that needs to keep the content basically the same or eventually lose the original readership, character development can be a problem, depending upon where it goes. [/Jung]

#4 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 03:14 PM

QUOTE
Additional comments: [Jung] I think who Sonic is with romantically determines what sort of story we have. Mina is from what I hear fairly similar to Sonic, yet a tad weaker emotionally and physically.


The only thing similar is perhaps their speed and love for music. That said, Sonic and Sally have their similarities too. What's ironic is that no one considers the fact that the opposites attract angle could also work for Sonic and Mina, and in addition the fact Mina's desire to learn more about Sonic could make her a tool for the readers to understand him on a whole new level through the course of her interactions with him. In addition Mina's desire to learn more about Sonic could impact their relationship similarly to Sonic and Sally learning more about their 'opposite'. I guess the motive would simply be different. I think if I had to pick a straightforward relationship, it'd probably be Sonic and Amy. Considering Amy could do all thse things you mentioned. I think that Sonic and Sally's relationship was actually potrayed as more of a rivalry. Mina and Sally have the potential to be great strategists, but I think one of the bigger differences between them is that Sally's banter with Sonic is usually incredibly sarcastic and the dynamic itself put her in a similar situation as Knuckles way back when. As a matter of fact, I often considered why we had a strong need for Knuckles in the earlier books when Sally was much more the rival than either Knuckles or Shadow ever were.

#5 DCC

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:06 AM

Sonic did flirt with Sally when he was with Fiona(if one considers that cheating). I rather not see Sonic cheat, I have had enough relationship drama and ready for Sonic to have a basically stable relationship with Sally. I want/exspect Sonic to behave better in the future.

#6 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 01:47 PM

What do you mean by 'flirt'?

#7 Lord Exor

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 11:43 AM

Sonic should be making out with the muzzle of Robotnik's laser pistol.


#8 Guest_MauEvig_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 06:34 PM

Who should Sonic be making out with? Mina of course! XP

ANYWAY...

QUOTE
Sonic did flirt with Sally when he was with Fiona(if one considers that cheating). I rather not see Sonic cheat, I have had enough relationship drama and ready for Sonic to have a basically stable relationship with Sally. I want/exspect Sonic to behave better in the future.


I partially agree with you. I rather not see Sonic cheat either and I'd like to see him in a stable relationship.

HOWEVER...if you think a relationship with Sally is going to be stable, then I disagree. ^^ Him and Sally are just TOO different and I think they're basically incompatable. He's more compatable with Mina. Super Speed, parents robotisized, love of music, but also Mina's patient and understanding with Sonic and she isn't overly controlling. Plus they look much cuter together. Sally, as Miko put it, is more like a rival to Sonic. Plus she's too controlling. She'd want to make Sonic stay put all the time and I don't think Sonic would make that great of a King. I see them always being friends but not lovers. Mina, I see her travelling with Sonic and going on adventures with him. I think Sonic could open up her adventurous side.

And....

QUOTE
Sonic should be making out with the muzzle of Robotnik's laser pistol.


That's just lol there.

#9 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:49 PM

Now, it's within possibility that Ian would make her follow Sonic on his adventures and ditch the crown. He could develop Sally to behave differently towards Sonic. But again, I'll probably never like a pairing like Sonic/Sally. I was never able to see it develop from start to finish. You'd be surprised how easy you can make people enjoy incredibly flawed characters and dynamics if you stick to that relatively simple principle. All human relationships have a begginning, and especially in the case of love observers can relate more to the connection being felt by the two characters if they actually see the circumstances that brought them together. You actually become apart of the expirience. It's not somethng I can say about Sonic/Sally Sonic/Amy or Sonic/Fiona. Mina's the only one. Its also important to me that I'm reading a story in the same context as the characters. As in, I see the relationship unfold with the same understandings towards the enviornment that the characters have. It's very difficult for many readers to be able to relate to how stressful a particular event can be if we have the reassurance things will turn out okay in the end. It just soils the moment. Even if Ian decided he WAS going to draw a flashback for Sonic and Sally and even if Ian were to do the same for Ash/Mina I wouldn't like it. I've mentioned that appeals to tradition and the like are a huge factor in many SonSal decisions. I don't want this to come off as a deragatory statement. Even I can relate to that. For instance, even if Ian were to retcon the timeskip and develop Sonic and Sally's relationship start to finish, I probably wouldn't like it because we already have a dynamic that appeals to that. Different people may simply just like different things, and I'd see it as wasteful to replicate the same technique especially with (more than likely) little to no upgrades in sight. So I do understand what people who appeal to tradition are coming from. Thus it is very VERY unlikely that I will ever like Sonic with Sally.

I think another issue many fans have is Sally's appearance. She doesn't LOOK like a Sonic character, and seeing her with Sonic creates a feeling of dissonance. People say "oh that's racist" or "that's so prejudiced", except almost no one says "you're bad for not liking beastiality", almost not one likes Sonic with Elise or Sera.

"Oooh but they're a different species"

For the longest time SonSal fans beleived Sonic and Sally were a different species too. Did that stop them? No. It's just more moral rhetoric being tossed back and fourth to make themselves feel better. But for the longest time SonSal fans had to put up with the idea the weren't the same species and that it was beastiality. Besides, using the arguements of SonSal fans why would doing someone outside your species in a fictional world be wrong hmmm? Sex between different species is usually depicted as wrong in the real world because of differences in appearance (and if that's so shallow then again you should like Sonic/Elise), the animal is not able to express consent (in which case Elise and Sonic can both do this), the animal could be hurt physically by the expirience ( I don't think Elise has to worry about THAT), offspring being sterile (they'd have to actually have a child to prove whether or not the child would be sterile and even in that case they could learn to adopt), and so on.

Most interspecies issues don't apply to Sonic and Sera or Elise, and even if a plot device whisked the obstacles away (ie. oh the spikes of a hedgehog fetus may hurt Elise insert ____ of Acorns to make it better) people still wouldn't like the pairing due to the first thing. When it boils down to it, Sonic and Elise don't fit many people's image of what's right.Sometimes I have to admit when I see Sonic and Sally kissing when Sally's been drawn with the most human anatomy of almost if not all the Sonic characters, and her facial features especially resemble a human's to me. Even after it's be confirmed Sally and Sonic are both Mobosapiens, people call them a different species because of this problem. You can't just simply blow away a person's psychology as easily as explaining the current comic canon.

Some of you may say "Well if we don't teach people to accept what doesn't look like them there will still be racism" and yet you'd probably have an issue if a person had sex with an animal even if it were capable of consenting. There are even cases where an animal stimulates or approaches a human sexually. If the human consents would that be okay? Many people wouldn't think so. There's the issue of breeding humans with chimps, and for "ethical" reasons thats also not a widely done practice if at all. I think that even under such idealisms such as ending racism and prejudice there are limits put in place. But back to the main point: Even by my own logic however, there is plenty of reason for Sonic and Mina not to be together officially. What about newer fans who will not be able to view SonMina under the context I did, and therefore will enjoy it less or perhaps not at all. Sonic comics aren't like manga. They don't have ALL issues available in stores and actually encourage the viewers not to read back before getting the present material. Manga writers have the right to slap readers on the wrist for reading book 5 when they don't have book 1. Therefore even with my logic it'd be unfair to impose the SonMina relationship on the newer fans any more than the SonSal fans imposing their pairing on SonMina and SonAmy fans. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't think Sonic should be with anyone. In the games Sonic ISN'T with anyone. What's there to be afraid of? That your pairings are lame without the saturation of affections? If not than I don't see the problem to be honest. Sonic doesn't have to cheat. There are plenty of ways socially and within the minds of the characters to prohibit serious dating, and if necessary the Sonic grams can constantly relat this point to readers (because with the constant new readership, the same n00b questions will always be asked).

#10 fishtheimpaler

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 03:25 AM

QUOTE ("Miko":1mizut8s)
What's ironic is that no one considers the fact that the opposites attract angle could also work for Sonic and Mina, and in addition the fact Mina's desire to learn more about Sonic could make her a tool for the readers to understand him on a whole new level through the course of her interactions with him. In addition Mina's desire to learn more about Sonic could impact their relationship similarly to Sonic and Sally learning more about their 'opposite'.

This struck me as really weird when I first read it, Miko. Sonic has never seemed to me to be a particularly deep character. He's like the ancient Greeks; he says what he thinks and means what he says and does what he wants.

Mina: Where do you want to be in ten years, Sonic?
Sonic: Running really fast! Hurting bad guys!

Is Mina somehow convinced Sonic is harboring secret depths of feeling, sentiment, or frustration? Do you think he is? How do you think this dynamic is going to work?

#11 Momiji-kun

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 06:20 PM



Sorry, just wanted to use that emoticon...
No HTML in sigs? What is this shit?

#12 Guest_MauEvig_*

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 07:23 PM



I can honestly say that while brown and blue aren't exactly colors that I think make the best mixture...I don't think Sonic and Sal look like beastiality.
I just think they're unfitting due to their personality clash. And they don't really look good together either XP

#13 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 11:39 AM

QUOTE ("fishtheimpaler":358wkmqu)
QUOTE ("Miko":358wkmqu)

What's ironic is that no one considers the fact that the opposites attract angle could also work for Sonic and Mina, and in addition the fact Mina's desire to learn more about Sonic could make her a tool for the readers to understand him on a whole new level through the course of her interactions with him. In addition Mina's desire to learn more about Sonic could impact their relationship similarly to Sonic and Sally learning more about their 'opposite'.

This struck me as really weird when I first read it, Miko. Sonic has never seemed to me to be a particularly deep character. He's like the ancient Greeks; he says what he thinks and means what he says and does what he wants.

Mina: Where do you want to be in ten years, Sonic?
Sonic: Running really fast! Hurting bad guys!

Is Mina somehow convinced Sonic is harboring secret depths of feeling, sentiment, or frustration? Do you think he is? How do you think this dynamic is going to work?



One of the fun things about fiction is that you can make information up. I beleive this is called retconning (retroactive retcon I beleive). Like character development, establishing information about a character from time to time can break the monotony of always developing the character, and thus give meaning to stories. Even if there absolutely was nothing there in the begginning there has the potential to be. One of the indicators of that possibility is that Sally doesn't even feel like she'll ever figure him out totally and in 109 she also mentions that he tries to maintain a level of cool. Exploring issues that Sonic keeps to himself, for instance he never openly admitted something like using Fiona Fox as a rebound girl, that he was lonely or that he himself feels pain. when it came to Tails the truth had to be dragged out of him in the form of combat. He lies to himself and others. The biggest mishap over that occurring when princess Sally and Sonic had their own break up concerning Sonic not being able to keep his word to stay at her side and fulfill his duties as consort. He also doesn't see himself cut out for politics from what he said in issue 54. And yet he still went along with the allowing Sally to beleive he'd be with her as future king until it interfered with his more important agendas. Sonic can be selfish, and Sonic can be a real jerk. But as Penders has said before there can be a really nice person despite all that, and Mina really wanted to get more in touch with that when approaching Sally for the first time in issue 108 (or was it 109). One of the flaws with having attitude is that it...it's a flaw. People are going to dislike you for it. Many fans looked at a taste of Sonic's attitude towards Sally and the brutal insensitivity as something that made them want to stop reading. I think I liked the fact Mina understood Sonic can be a jerk, but was very determined to make herself (and thus us as the viewers) understand there is more to him than that.


In any case, Sonic is steadily becoming more consumed with his image, and an inquisitive girl like Mina may be helpful in keeping Sonic steady with the games while not making him totally closed off to the readership. And as you mentioned Sonic has the potential through this dynamic to become deeper as a character. In the begginning of the book Sonic could think of plans and lead the charge on his own. He's coming closer to his roots again and I think that with relearning that degree of self control, detriments could also occur. Either way I think it'd be a fun concept to explore. And as for the whole beastiality thing, it's a personal thing. Sally just looks too human in her anatomy to me. Especially her face. Therefore I can't help but think of it as on par with something like Sonic/Sera or Sonic/Elise. It just sort of bothers me. Granted its not the only reason I don't like Sonic/Sally but it is one.


To be honest while its possible Ian COULD develop Sally to do it just as Ian could develop Sonic and Mina to have the rivalry banter of Sonic/Sally, it's just not very rewarding that way. Mina is more inquisitive towards Sonic inner issues compared to Sally. When Sonic was upset about not being able to protect Max Mina was very intuitive and concerned about Sonic-- and she didn't even know him very well back then. And then when Geoffery and Elias had hammered Sonic in the ground, she was the only one there for him when no one else was. To me, Mina seem liked the person to add some of the heart into the stories. To give Sonic someone to talk to about very important issues, to break down in front of, to be a jerk around and yet be kind at the same time. I could even see them using their music as an outlet to express themselves since both of them have already done that, and their hobby can also be a form of communication on another level. Some plots allow Sonic to really think about things that could develop his character, and just having someone interested in hearing him talk these things out could be the key to character development, or to again allow the viewers to understand what Sonic's thinking in response to a given mission. Because Mina was so inquisitive towards Sonic it just feels like it'd be more appropriate and rewarding to assign her these things, even if she weren't to be a heavy contributor to the overall action of the storyline. And the hook towards the SonSal dynamic, is that there is again the banter and the first, and perhaps most genuine rivalry in the Sonci series. Sally is (supposedly) the brains and Sonic is very shallow around her. The dynamic is relatively mission oriented. Sonic blurts out whaterver comes to mind about the mission and Sally flaunts her intellect while Sonic flaunts his superior combat skills. Even if Sonic were to assume more of his previous role there may be a chance for the dynamic behind Sonic and Sally to thrive. Most of it was just plain arguing but you'd be surprised how many people pay to see conflict (granted both of them do not usually get incredibly offended by it though which makes if different from your average fight).

#14 Guest_MauEvig_*

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 06:24 PM

Oh by the way...here's my response to the Sonic making out with Sally:

http://i231.photobuc...ngooselove1.jpg

ENJOY THE SONMINANESS! XP

#15 Shadow

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 01:42 PM

I've always been fond of Bunnie X Sonic coupling

IxXnFrm.png


#16 JayFoxFire

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 06:57 PM

SonicxSally for me. Its my most favorite couple. I draw them all the time
SatAM rocks my socks

#17

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:25 AM

I used to be all for the Sonic-Sally pairing... and then I learned about Mina. I think it shoulc be Sonic-Mina

#18 DCC

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 11:45 AM

Sorry to hear that Mic Muny. It is sad how Archie has damaged Sonic and Sally's relationship. Archie has made Sonic and Sally look bad/unappealing as a couple so many times. From giving too many other choices for pairings, Sonic complaining in M25YL, and making Sally look awful when they broke up; I hate how Archie seems to try to turn people aganist them. Assuming they do get back together(which I hope), Archie better stop that.

#19 Guest_Vyse33_*

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:04 PM

I think it should be SonicxMina.

#20 Guest_Shorty_*

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE
Sorry to hear that Mic Muny. It is sad how Archie has damaged Sonic and Sally's relationship.


Truthfully DC, Sonic/Sally ALWAYS had problems when it came to Archie. The first issue was that, if you read back, there lacked the dynamic which made SonSal popular in SatAM. the writers weren't really able to replicate the banter dynamic to the persistancy of the show, let alone use it as the story mechanic it was usually supposed to be (using the dynamic to help establish and explain parts of the plot for instance).

So resultingly, the writers tried compensating, but at the expense of other characters. That was another pitfall because using it as a primary source of relationship strengthening got redundant, and then there came characters like Mina who people grew attatched to. The hurdles thrown in during #134 was while the tip of the ice burg, a problem already acknowledged by some fans before it even happened. Sally being heir to the throne, and Sonic wanting to adventure with his life made it difficult if not impossible for their relationship to work out. And it doesn't help that Ian writes in plotholes to get them back together.

Many people who don't support SonSal also know they couldn't logically stay together within the orginal context of the comic book. I can respect if people still want to support and envision it, but knowing the problems sorrounding SonSal, and how controversial it is as a couple, I think Archie should just leave the other love interests more open to development.

...But then that would require Archie to be... "fair". Heaven forbid what would happen if they had to do that AND actually work on the Sonic/Sally character dynamic!





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