191 replies to this topic

[chief]

As for you Alextendo... Don't make me fucking smack you.

How nice of you.....sa m'donne l'envie de mettre le feu partout avec une tel attitude insultante envers moi.

Thats fine. Be my guest. But do not insult members posts here. The rules on this forum are for mutual respect. Either follow it or get out. Your choice on that matter.

[Shadow]

I've always seen religon as an old outdated science before their was science. It can be used to help people in moral ways, however when they disregard the morality lessons and base it as solid history things get very muddled. For example, the bible influenced most of the world into believing the egyptian empire were built on the backs of slaves and the jews were the martyrs of those slaves. What you may not know however, is that the egyptians never used slaves. The pharaohs had the pyramids built as a way for the people to get out of paying their taxes. You could either pay your yearly taxes or, put in some hard time doing some manual labor. And the conditions were top notch to make sure all the builders were taken care of very well. In fact, they had built an entire mini town around the pyramid site to house markets for food, women to prostitute, doctors to treat wounds. And to do this, the pharaoh poured much of his coin into the southern end of the country where their was more resources for building, food, and medicine to deliver.
And the jewish people started out as tribal nomads who actually tried to take Egypt for themselves, wanting their rich land but were always driven out. But never were they really persecuted or made into slaves. That I think is merely prejudice.
None of this is said in the bible, and if I were to tell someone that chances are they would argue with me. And when one tries to dictate logic amongst the obvious loopholes in the bible, its always handwaved off as god works in mysterious ways. That wouldn't hold up in court would it? One thing I like about eastern religions is they are much more lenient on being allowed to have whoever you want as your mate. Telling someone you can't love this person or else the all mighty father hates queers seems to benefit nobody. Creates more hatred and divides people rather than bringing them together.

[furrykef]

Fire does solve a lot of problems.

Las galletas también.

[Alextendo]

As for you Alextendo... Don't make me fucking smack you.

How nice of you.....sa m'donne l'envie de mettre le feu partout avec une tel attitude insultante envers moi.

Thats fine. Be my guest. But do not insult members posts here. The rules on this forum are for mutual respect. Either follow it or get out. Your choice on that matter.

I don't want to sound like an asshole, but i've respond to a comment that was tending to be more and more agressive towards me, and something about this comment didn't make sense. In return, i feel like i'm now the target for being thrash by everyone, like it's all my fault.

RedAuthar send me a personnal response, we apologie to each other and were all fine.

Can everyone stop thrashing me now?

[An7imatt3r]

RedAuthar send me a personnal response, we apologie to each other and were all fine.

Can everyone stop thrashing me now?

I don't think anyone is thrashing you. Chief, and the mods in general, don't like personal attacks. Arguments should be made with entire thoughts, not blunt statements. All we ask is that you don't make a habit out of it. Chief is all bark and occasional bite. Its the rabies that will get you though.

Glad to see that you guys are taking care of things. No need to fret over this.

[chief]

Alls good in the neighborhood.

[Alextendo]

RedAuthar send me a personnal response, we apologie to each other and were all fine.

Can everyone stop thrashing me now?

I don't think anyone is thrashing you.

Sure feel like it.

Let's move on and act like it never happen, okay? I hate to talk about it any longer.

[Uncle Ben]

The holy wars in Europe resulted in the sacking of Constantinople, a catholic city.

Actually, by that point it was an Eastern Orthodox city.

I thought the Holy Wars was over Jerusalem

[An7imatt3r]

The holy wars in Europe resulted in the sacking of Constantinople, a catholic city.

Actually, by that point it was an Eastern Orthodox city.

I thought the Holy Wars was over Jerusalem

The holy wars is a term that encompasses a lot of wars. Crusades would have been a better term admittedly, but only a handful of those were about Jerusalem. The crusades spanned nearly four centuries. Most were about riches and power, not religion.

And for the record Kef, Constantinople was considered "the capital of christian civilization" at the time, 1204, and was very much a Christian city... Sacked by crusaders under the popes direction. I had to look it up.

[furrykef]

You must have gotten very confused somehow. ^^; I never said it wasn't Christian, just that it was Eastern Orthodox rather than Catholic (which I'd imagine was what the Pope's beef with it was).

[An7imatt3r]

You must have gotten very confused somehow. ^^; I never said it wasn't Christian, just that it was Eastern Orthodox rather than Catholic (which I'd imagine was what the Pope's beef with it was).

Yes, yes I did. Either way, I now know a lot more about the 1200s... yay.

[Uncle Ben]

There are some things in the Bible i call bullshit on: Like Moses parting the Red Sea... I'm calling Bull on that

[furrykef]

What really bugs me about the Bible is the Flood. "Oh, well, my experiment didn't turn out so well. Let's just kill everyone and start over."

[furrykef]

Are you seriously unable to comprehend how such statements can be inflammatory?

(EDIT: in response to a post Alextendo deleted)

[Alextendo]

Okay, FINE! I erase this damn post!

It's freaking annoys me that i can't said something remotely negative toward religion. I could said that a particular video game or movie suck and people would let that away. But if i dare to said ANYTHING bad agaisnt religion, it's like i cause the biggest disaster in history.

[brmsort]

Bump.

 

A big problem with "science" is that many mislabel naturalist philosophy or humanism as science. Science is a process of investigation of the natural word. As such, it has limits and is subject to mistakes of perception and other human errors. Science cannot prove things that cannot be observed and measured or necessarily deduced from established discoveries. Much information about our world certainly seems to indicate a great age to the universe, but a seemingly great age is not the same as verifiable great age. When such debates are stifled, it is not because science is being questioned, but a precious philosophy as important as any religion is being questioned.

When people begin to debate science and religion, what they are really debating is naturalism versus supernaturalism.

On the other hand, at least in the history of Christianity, mistaken interpretations have made fools out of those without the grace to realize that perhaps what is being read is not to be taken as a statement of science. For example, I tend to believe in a younger universe, but maybe I am not seeing the eons hiding in Scripture.

Of this I am sure, all truth is God's truth. So I must be careful. Just as a perception of Scripture could be off in certain areas, so too can a model of scientific "facts" be misconstrued by equally fallible humans involved in scientific research.

[Reed Teran]

In a way, everyone is right, but here's my slice of opinionated pie.

I have read the 3 Holy Books of the 3 major religions, the Bible (Christianity), the Torah (Judaism), and the Quran (Islam), and made a discovery. Christies and Jewish people, ready thy torches and Pitchforks.

The Muslim Religion is absolutely tolerant of many things that Judaism and Christy folk deem supa-evil-n-stuff.
Though all 3 books contain more or less the SAME CONTENT (The Quran even has Moses and his deeds there, unaltered.) The Torah and Bible are really strict.
Bible: Jews n Muslims go to hell, Christy folk go to dah hevvinz.
Torah: Christy folk and Jews go to hellz, Jewish peeps go to dah hevvinz.
Quran: Christians, Jews, and Muslims go to heaven. No questions.

The only reason Muslims have a bad rap is because of choice words in the Quran sparking Extremists (just like the Bible in general sparking the Christian equivalent, Southern Baptists), and because they call their god a different thing.

This feud proves a lot about religious material in general, that it divides humanity and prevents true peace, forever deeming one another "evil" and causing men and women to fight men and women.

However, Religion sort of has a common theme, and that is "don't try figuring such and such out, cuz God did it." This is why Scientists aren't held high in the religious eye, because Science is a way of saying "well screw thee, I'm gonna figure it out for the good of knowledge."

If there were only Science, not religion, humanity would be united in their efforts, like old rivals Russia and America now united in the study of SpaceTravel, believe it or not. 'Tis actually proven. Now, Religious divides have halted science significantly. In Israel, they have an actual documented way to prevent cancer eternally. Buuuuut religious differences tell Israel to gtfo while America gets all the lulz building cemeteries.

This is all from an outsider standpoint. These are solely my views, and I don't expect anyone to like or agree with them. I'm just throwing my coin into the fountain.

As for Scientology, I advise you to steer clear from it at all costs, because it isn't as nice as you think.

[furrykef]

Much information about our world certainly seems to indicate a great age to the universe, but a seemingly great age is not the same as verifiable great age. When such debates are stifled, it is not because science is being questioned, but a precious philosophy as important as any religion is being questioned.

 

Nah, it's because there's usually very little evidence to back up any side of the debate other than the great age theory, and scientists have little patience for such arguments because they tend to be associated with very unscientific thinking (creationism/intelligent design).

[Uncle Ben]

Scientology is only good if your name is Tom Cruise or john Travoltah

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

The holy wars in Europe resulted in the sacking of Constantinople, a catholic city.

Actually, by that point it was an Eastern Orthodox city.

 

I thought the Holy Wars was over Jerusalem

 

http://www.youtube.c...EF80C9&index=15 - History Lesson!

 

 Hm, I sense a great wave of unsourced and assertive misconception in this thread, a lot of mean assumptions and less fair and polemical diologue. As a student of history/theological apologetics/the sciences, I might throw in my two cents...when I have the time.  In argumentation only decent mediation brings progress.

 

 Note that you can PM with personal questions. I'd rather discuss personal issues with people with out the threat of some one else throwing their opinions at them.

 

 For now I will leave you with this:

 

"Modern science is already, in a very serious sense, Christian. It germinated in and was nurtured by the Christian Philosophy of creation, it was developed and established through the work of largely Christian pioneers, and it continues to draw Christian to its endeavors today."

- Dr. Ian Hutchinson, professor of nuclear engineering, MIT; fellow the American Physical Society and the Institute of Physics.

 

  " As a scientist you grow to assume that science will answer everything and that religion is fictional. There are mysteries that science cannot explain...and divine inspiration may be rational explanation."

 - Dr. Andrew Parker, biologist, Oxford University.

 

"The spiritual worldview provides another way of finding truth. Scientists who deny this would be well advised to consider the limits of their own tools."

- Dr. Francis S. Collins, geneticist; director, National Institutes of Health

 

Don't buy into the oversimplisitc narrative Science vs. Religion. It's a giant misconception, the very idea suffers from the fallacy of question begging...on both sides.