49 replies to this topic

[Uncle Ben]

i'll have to find that episode i guess..

[LaserX5]

I guess it's just me, but it really bugs me when there are cartoon characters with completely different, clashing designs. I mean, the SegaSonic style takes influence from classic cartoon characters like Mickey Mouse and Popeye. They have large heads, hands, and feet; noodle-like limbs, and a small body. Amy Rose is female, but she still has comically large hands (though not as big as Sonic's).

Sally's original design, however, had a more realistic depiction. When you partner a realistic-looking character with a cartoonier character, they don't mesh well. It's best to try and find a common ground to base everything around and make the characters blend in better.

Ok, I can agree with this assessment somewhat.

Although, while females like Sally should have the cartoony design in a sense, I think they should have small hands at least, maybe even a curvy figure to show the differences between the genders.

Tiny Toons had something like this and I thought it meshed well.

i'll have to find that episode i guess..

Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvWwSHgrD-0

[Uncle Ben]

Thanks Laser

[PuffinGrandeur]

How is Sonic losing all self control and becoming this due to his rage against seeing his friends getting hurt shattering his character?

That this has to be asked shows why this isn't a debate worth having. But seriously, having everything be fixed by Sonic being so sad he turns into a demi-god is the dumbest thing ever. It is amazing that they actually made Dark Sonic DUMBER. If you never want the status quo to ever change in an action/adventure title, then yes you just want the same shit over and over and over.

[LaserX5]

That this has to be asked shows why this isn't a debate worth having.

Can you ever just answer an honest question instead of resorting to hitting below the belt?

I like to ask questions when discussing things, ok? Sheesh...

But seriously, having everything be fixed by Sonic being so sad he turns into a demi-god is the dumbest thing ever. It is amazing that they actually made Dark Sonic DUMBER.

When did I ever say everything be fixed by this? You sure like to take my words out of context, don't you?

If you never want the status quo to ever change in an action/adventure title, then yes you just want the same shit over and over and over.

Again, you took my words out of my context. I'm not against a status quo change. What I am against is a biased status quo change.

If one cast is fair game to this, then so should the others. Sally shouldn't be treated like trash and then Amy gets treated like a queen character wise in response. That is disgusting favoritism.

Neither character should be off limits to this.

[Uncle Ben]

lets throw Dark Sonic into the mix. it would be interesting to see. I mean it would be something Completely different if they did that

[PuffinGrandeur]

When did I ever say everything be fixed by this?

Did you not read the actual fan ideas? Dark Sonic beats Eggman, teleports everybody home, cures Antoine, cures BUNNY, and restores Metal Sally's free will. It is extraordinary bullshit.

I am "hitting below the belt" because Sonic becoming a rage-fueled destruction monster is literally going against everything the character is. It's more out of character than making him a forty year old married man.

[RedAuthar]

Sort of like a Hedgehog Enerjak.

[Captain Sorzo]

I can't see any justification in giving Sonic a literal evil form, especially one that functions as a Deus Ex Machina. With that said, I think there's story potential in having him snap, even if just for a moment, and do something (or nearly do) that he soon comes to deeply regret and must come to terms with. Nearly killing Robotnik would be an example. While I still haven't read any issues with Scourge yet (not counting the old ones when he was Evil Sonic), I like the idea of him symbolizing what Sonic could become.

The comic should illustrate that while Sonic is at his core a good person, one who ultimately never will fall and effectively become Scourge, he's not morally infallible, that he has his own doubts and emotional weaknesses and inner struggles. The Sea3on short "Waiting is the Hardest Part" deals with somewhat different struggles, but it's a fantastic example of that type of storytelling. While it would certainly have to be handled carefully to be given the appropriate nuance and not be bogged down by angst and melodrama, forcing Sonic to examine and wrestle with his darker side would be a means of threatening and developing the character without violating the mountain of red tape that prevents him from suffering lasting physical harm. At any rate, it'd be a nice alternative to yet more inconsequential plotlines that boil down to "Gee guys, Eggman's attacking again! Let's go get him!"

In the issues immediately following 230, we actually saw hints of Sonic coming closer and closer to snapping. Sadly, by 236 (the issue when this entire arc quickly went from excellent to at best mediocre) he quickly started acting like an emotionless, wisecracking moron with no signs of sorrow whatsoever. I understand that Sonic's sense of humor is both a defense mechanism and means of psychologically putting his opponents off balance. But it's completely out of place when he's fighting the mutilated husk of the love of his life, while her imprisoned soul watches helplessly from within.

Another instance of his shocking lack of empathy is the beginning of this current sub-plot with Knuckles. He sees the smoking ruin of the last shred of Echidna society, its population wiped out or captured for all he knows, and his only response is "Knuckles won't be happy to see this?" Seriously?!

[LaserX5]

Did you not read the actual fan ideas? Dark Sonic beats Eggman, teleports everybody home, cures Antoine, cures BUNNY, and restores Metal Sally's free will. It is extraordinary bullshit.

Yea, I read it, but I never said I was in favor of that idea. Reread my posts. Not one of them mentioned anything of being in favor of this.

I was merely saying I like the idea of Dark Sonic being one of Sonic's forms.

I am "hitting below the belt" because Sonic becoming a rage-fueled destruction monster is literally going against everything the character is. It's more out of character than making him a forty year old married man.

I don't know why I even bother debating with you. Just about every post I write you take out of context.

Dark Sonic happened because Sonic was enraged at seeing his friends suffering. That is as in character for Sonic as you can get. You hurt his friends, he will make you pay for it.

Now granted, him losing all self control there was not justifiable enough since it was merely Chris and Cosmo in danger. For him to become so angry he would go berserk like that, it needs to be something alot worse to set him off for it to be an acceptable occurrence.

Say, for example... if it were something along the lines of EndGame when Sonic thought he had lost everything, OH YEA! That to me would not only be an acceptable reaction, it would epic to watch wanting to see him tear into Robotnik as Dark Sonic for all the pain he caused him and his friends.

[RedAuthar]

Better would be to have Sonic trying to use the Emeralds to go Super while overly enraged.

[LaserX5]

Better would be to have Sonic trying to use the Emeralds to go Super while overly enraged.

Maybe he could do both.

Use the Emeralds in a rage and then it eventually it causes him to become Dark Sonic after he cannot control his emotions any longer.

[Uncle Ben]

But what would the trigger be? He saw Sally get roboticized, Saw Knothole being destroyed.... unless Sally gets killed right in front of him i dont see how he would be angry enough to become Dark Sonic

[LaserX5]

But what would the trigger be? He saw Sally get roboticized, Saw Knothole being destroyed.... unless Sally gets killed right in front of him i dont see how he would be angry enough to become Dark Sonic

An excellent question.

Personally, if I had to guess, I would say it'd be a combination of things over a period of time, such as Sally getting roboticized. Although, I think if there was one single incident other than the one you mentioned would set him off more than anything, it'd be having to watch seeing Robotnik torture someone very close to him for the fun of it, like Tails for example.

Seeing his little bro cry out more and more in agony I believe would no doubt set Sonic off and make him go all out on Robotnik in pure rage as Dark Sonic.

[Uncle Ben]

Hell if i was Sonic in that situation i may lose it

[RedAuthar]

My thoughts were that in Sonic Adventure they point out there is both Negative energy and positive energy in the emeralds. His rage just caused him to tap into the negative energy creating Dark Sonic instead of the usual Super Sonic.

[LaserX5]

Hell if i was Sonic in that situation i may lose it

I probably would myself. I'm very sensitive about that kind of thing.

My thoughts were that in Sonic Adventure they point out there is both Negative energy and positive energy in the emeralds. His rage just caused him to tap into the negative energy creating Dark Sonic instead of the usual Super Sonic.

Excellent analysis.

I think that's exactly what Dark Sonic is: Sonic using the negative energy of the Chaos Emeralds in a fit of anger.

[RedAuthar]

I mean it makes sense.

[Uncle Ben]

Hell if i was Sonic in that situation i may lose it

I probably would myself. I'm very sensitive about that kind of thing.

Most people are

[LaserX5]

I can't see any justification in giving Sonic a literal evil form, especially one that functions as a Deus Ex Machina. With that said, I think there's story potential in having him snap, even if just for a moment, and do something (or nearly do) that he soon comes to deeply regret and must come to terms with. Nearly killing Robotnik would be an example. While I still haven't read any issues with Scourge yet (not counting the old ones when he was Evil Sonic), I like the idea of him symbolizing what Sonic could become.

The comic should illustrate that while Sonic is at his core a good person, one who ultimately never will fall and effectively become Scourge, he's not morally infallible, that he has his own doubts and emotional weaknesses and inner struggles. The Sea3on short "Waiting is the Hardest Part" deals with somewhat different struggles, but it's a fantastic example of that type of storytelling. While it would certainly have to be handled carefully to be given the appropriate nuance and not be bogged down by angst and melodrama, forcing Sonic to examine and wrestle with his darker side would be a means of threatening and developing the character without violating the mountain of red tape that prevents him from suffering lasting physical harm. At any rate, it'd be a nice alternative to yet more inconsequential plotlines that boil down to "Gee guys, Eggman's attacking again! Let's go get him!"

In the issues immediately following 230, we actually saw hints of Sonic coming closer and closer to snapping. Sadly, by 236 (the issue when this entire arc quickly went from excellent to at best mediocre) he quickly started acting like an emotionless, wisecracking moron with no signs of sorrow whatsoever. I understand that Sonic's sense of humor is both a defense mechanism and means of psychologically putting his opponents off balance. But it's completely out of place when he's fighting the mutilated husk of the love of his life, while her imprisoned soul watches helplessly from within.

Another instance of his shocking lack of empathy is the beginning of this current sub-plot with Knuckles. He sees the smoking ruin of the last shred of Echidna society, its population wiped out or captured for all he knows, and his only response is "Knuckles won't be happy to see this?" Seriously?!

Excellent post. You hit on so many key points.

Sonic should have to struggle with being a hero and the possibility of succumbing to his inner dark side.

And yea, you're not the only one who arched a few eyebrows when I saw 236. It was like, "Good grief, Sonic. That's your mutilated roboticized girlfriend you're talking to. Act like you're upset at what's been done to her!"

As for the last point? I'm not surprised at all Sonic responded so nonchalantly. Sonic has been acting cold and uncaring for as long as I can remember since Flynn took over.

It begs the question: Is this disgusting attitude Ian's doing or Sega demanding Sonic just act this way?