1059 replies to this topic

[furrykef]

What? Translation are cool. Because i don't speak Japanese, it's good to understand what is they said in Moon Crystal (or any other game for that matter).

 

That doesn't mean you have to give money to people who are ripping off the guys who actually made it possible for you to understand what they said in Moon Crystal.
 

[Alextendo]

 

What? Translation are cool. Because i don't speak Japanese, it's good to understand what is they said in Moon Crystal (or any other game for that matter).

 

That doesn't mean you have to give money to people who are ripping off the guys who actually made it possible for you to understand what they said in Moon Crystal.

Then if you have a better solution, i'll be happy to hear it. And beside, what about if the guy who made the translation is the same who produce the reproduction cartridge? Or if they got the autorisation from the person who made the translation to make a cartridge based on their worked.

 

Even if you keep getting on my back, what can i do about it? I'll try to take what i can get. I don't make miracles and i won't travel the world and/or looking around the net to find the original translator to give him money personaly.

 

I'm looking for a reproduction cartridge for the game i've mentionned earlier. When i would find them, i'll buy them.

 

Come to think of it, the guy who translated a game should not really get money for it. After all, it's hacking a copyright game to replace the text for a different language. If i buy a reproduction cartridge, i pay for the job of producing this cartridge, not the software put in this.

[Skylar]

Well, a patriot is someone who expresses loyalty to their country, which a rebel is decidedly not doing. Even when the colonists decided to rebel, they still considered themselves British.

So, were they rebels or patriots when the revolutionary war was near its end?

[furrykef]

Then if you have a better solution, i'll be happy to hear it. And beside, what about if the guy who made the translation is the same who produce the reproduction cartridge? Or if they got the autorisation from the person who made the translation to make a cartridge based on their worked.

They're rarely ever authorized to do it, I believe. Certainly not the Star Fox 2 cartridges.

 

 

Even if you keep getting on my back, what can i do about it? I'll try to take what i can get. I don't make miracles and i won't travel the world and/or looking around the net to find the original translator to give him money personaly.

Translation: I'm going to do the wrong thing because doing the right thing would be horribly inconvenient!

 

 

Come to think of it, the guy who translated a game should not really get money for it. After all, it's hacking a copyright game to replace the text for a different language.

True -- and the people making repros shouldn't make a net profit on the same grounds.

 

 

If i buy a reproduction cartridge, i pay for the job of producing this cartridge, not the software put in this.

Without the software on the cartridge, you wouldn't be buying the cartridge.

 

 

You can already put most games on a cart such as the SNES PowerPak. The PowerPak isn't capable of supporting games with expansion chips other than the DSP-1, but few games had such chips. (The most notable are probably Star Fox, Star Fox 2, Yoshi's Island, and Super Mario RPG.) The SD2SNES is even supposed to have SuperFX support in the future, so Star Fox, Star Fox 2, and Yoshi's Island should eventually run on it.

[Alextendo]

 

Even if you keep getting on my back, what can i do about it? I'll try to take what i can get. I don't make miracles and i won't travel the world and/or looking around the net to find the original translator to give him money personaly.

Translation: I'm going to do the wrong thing because doing the right thing would be horribly inconvenient!

If you want to be provocative, then fuck off. Because i'm not talking with you anymore.

 

What else can i do? You want to prevent me from buying reproduction cartridge because you think the hacker should deserve profit for a copyright game he hacked? And even if i would like to give him money directly, how would i do that?

 

I'm not really interest with flash-cart cartridge anyway. Beside, game like Starfox 2 can't play on a flash-cart because of the absence of the Super-FX chip.

 

To end all this, if you CAN'T stop bitching about this, i buy my game from a local game store. So i ask them if they could find me a copy of the game i want and i paid THEM to get the game in question. From this point, it all depend of their contact and/or place they could find game like these. So it's totally out of my control of if the hacker receive any money or not.

 

So, will you stop pissing me off now? No, you know what? I don't care. I decide it's over, now move on.

[furrykef]

Sorry, my translation was obviously wrong. "I'm going to do the wrong thing because I'm an asshole." There, that's better.

 

Why can't you just play the game on a damn emulator?

[Alextendo]

That's it. I'm fucking done with you, dipshit.

 

If you're so obsessed with this, then go find the fucking hacker and give them your fucking wallet because you can't seem to live with this in your mind.

 

Beside, you're in the wrong way and you just don't fucking get it. The hacker shouldn't get the money because the hack is based on an official product. Therefor, it's making money of a COPYRIGHT product (the software). The one who will produce the reproduction cartridge got money from the actual hardware (the cartridge itself). The cartridge is not under copyright violation because it's legal to re-sell a game. When you sell a game, you sell the actual hardware (the cartridge), not the software itself.

 

So, if you CAN'T get over it, even if you're CLEARLY in the wrong side of this, then call me an asshole because you think the hacker should get illegal money, then i would kindly ask you to GO FUCK YOURSELF!

[furrykef]

Beside, you're in the wrong way and you just don't fucking get it. The hacker shouldn't get the money because the hack is based on an official product. Therefor, it's making money of a COPYRIGHT product (the software). The one who will produce the reproduction cartridge got money from the actual hardware (the cartridge itself). The cartridge is not under copyright violation because it's legal to re-sell a game. When you sell a game, you sell the actual hardware (the cartridge), not the software itself.

You don't seem to have any qualms with giving the repro guys illegal money. And you are completely wrong that it is legal to sell repros. Take a look at the word copyright: right to copy. Only the copyright holder has the legal right to copy a game, and selling an illegal copy is, surprise, illegal. So buying a repro cart is ripping off both the translators/hackers (who invested their time and effort into the project -- often hundreds of hours -- under the assumption that people would not sell the fruits of their labor) and the rightful copyright holder.

 

It's funny how I'm the dipshit when I'm not the one ripping people off and betraying people's trust here. I'm not the one taking a shit on a community (one that I belong to, no less) that works hard to do something nice for people.

 

All I'm asking is that you stop being an assbucket and do the right thing.

[Alextendo]

 

Beside, you're in the wrong way and you just don't fucking get it. The hacker shouldn't get the money because the hack is based on an official product. Therefor, it's making money of a COPYRIGHT product (the software). The one who will produce the reproduction cartridge got money from the actual hardware (the cartridge itself). The cartridge is not under copyright violation because it's legal to re-sell a game. When you sell a game, you sell the actual hardware (the cartridge), not the software itself.

You don't seem to have any qualms with giving the repro guys illegal money. And you are completely wrong that it is legal to sell repros. Take a look at the word copyright: right to copy.

Are you so unwilling to understand? What do you think these reproduction are made of? RE-SELL GAME! Does the re-sell gaming market is illegal? NO!

 

A reproduction cartridge is based of an real cartridge, dissemble them put togheter with new game inside of it. The goal of the hacker is to make a hack, as long as they don't sell it or make money out of it, they don't infringe the copyright law. The reproduction cartidge get his money from the the hardware itself, NOT THE SOFTWARE. This is what you don't seem to get.

[furrykef]

First off, not all repro carts are made from existing games. It's not all that difficult to make new cartridges or even buy kits for them. Second, your argument doesn't make much sense if you buy a cart for one game and put a different game on that cart. Sure, if I buy a Japanese Wonder Project J cartridge, and I put the English version of Wonder Project J on it, it could be argued that it's a Wonder Project J cart either way and so reselling it should be OK. But that doesn't make much sense if I put the English version of Wonder Project J on a Super Mario World cart. The makers of Wonder Project J never received any compensation for that cart.

 

The goal of the hacker is to make a hack, as long as they don't sell it or make money out of it, they don't infringe the copyright law.

This is technically untrue. Making a hack is making a derived work, and making a derived work does infringe on copyright law. Thankfully, companies generally don't care, though.

 

The reproduction cartidge get his money from the the hardware itself, NOT THE SOFTWARE.

The software is why the cartridge exists. You're not buying an empty cartridge and putting a game of your choice on it. You're buying the game you want, which happens to be in a cartridge. Suppose you go to the store and you buy a shiny new Xbox 360 game for $60. Do you really think the $60 is for the box, manual, and disc(s)? Of course not. Most of it is for the game. How is a cartridge any different?

[Alextendo]

Okay, it look like i'm gonna have to explain it step by step.

 

When you buy a game, you buy the product itself, not the actual software. If i say i buy Super Mario 3 on the NES, that doesn't mean you own the copyright of the Mario franchise or the copyright of Super Mario 3 itself. No, you actually own the cartridge in which CONTAIN the data of Super Mario 3. Because you've paid for the cartridge, the cartridge itself is your's since you paid for the product, but you can't use the data of the game itself to make money out of it. You can then give the cartridge to your friend, or even eat it if you want, since you own the cartridge itself. You can dismantled the cartridge and put it back together as you will.

 

The hacker in the other hand play and use the software itself. He can't sell or make money out of it because the software is something own by a company. Hacking is not something illegal as long as they don't make money out of it. What about PC mod? They aren't different from hack game aren't they? Mod game aren't consider illegal as long as they don't make money out of it too.

 

A reproduction game cartridge make money out of the handcraft and the re-sell of the actual material with which the cartridge is based off. Since game can be legally re-selled, then it's not an issue.

 

A rom hacked for exemple are burn in a chipset. The person who will buy a reproduction cartridge will pay for the product itself, including the chipset in the cartridge, not the actual software itself who was burned in it.

 

Producing some cartridge without re-using some used game cartridge don't seem to be such an illegal issue either. New homebrew game are being released for the NES, Atari 2600 among many other. Recently, i buy a new title for the Dreamcast: Sturmwind. This disc isn't liscence by Sega, yet, should they get send to court to infringement of copyright?

The reproduction cartidge get his money from the the hardware itself, NOT THE SOFTWARE.

The software is why the cartridge exists. You're not buying an empty cartridge and putting a game of your choice on it. You're buying the game you want, which happens to be in a cartridge. Suppose you go to the store and you buy a shiny new Xbox 360 game for $60. Do you really think the $60 is for the box, manual, and disc(s)? Of course not. Most of it is for the game. How is a cartridge any different?

The pourcentage of how much money will get to who is already set by the publiser, whose is job is to sell a game. When it's about a used-game, the money isn't attribute to either the publiser or the developeur, since they already got their money on that copy. At that point, it's not about giving money for the software contain in the game, but rather for the actual material only.

[furrykef]

If i say i buy Super Mario 3 on the NES, that doesn't mean you own the copyright of the Mario franchise or the copyright of Super Mario 3 itself. No, you actually own the cartridge in which CONTAIN the data of Super Mario 3. Because you've paid for the cartridge, the cartridge itself is your's since you paid for the product, but you can't use the data of the game itself to make money out of it. You can then give the cartridge to your friend, or even eat it if you want, since you own the cartridge itself. You can dismantled the cartridge and put it back together as you will.

 

OK, but let's say you take that Super Mario 3 cartridge and you put a fan-translated copy of Final Fantasy II on it. Where is that copy of Final Fantasy II coming from? Well, somebody's taking a copy from his computer and burning it to a set of ROM chips. He's making a copy -- a copy not authorized by the copyright holder. It is illegal. Period.

 

 

At that point, it's not about giving money for the software contain in the game, but rather for the actual material only.

 

If that were true, all used games for a given platform would go for the same price, because they're all made out of the same materials. Why do used EarthBound cartridges go for $100+ on eBay? Because the plastic, circuit boards, and ROM chips they're made of are expensive -- or because it's EarthBound? I'll give you a hint: most games made from exactly the same parts go for 1/10th that price.

[Valerie Valens]

There is a fallacy in Alextendo's point and it's that you can still find original cartridges in auction houses like ebay and such. Sure it'll cost money, but you can most certainly be certain that the product is genuine and not a facsimile. It's the equivalent of buying a romdump of a video game that has been copied into a USB stick. There is no value to it as a collector's item, and you're just throwing money away at someone who took someone else's work trying to make money off of it.

 

This is why a lot of fan-translated ROMs and ISOs of old games have a message saying that if you paid money for this, ask for a refund.

[Alextendo]

 

If i say i buy Super Mario 3 on the NES, that doesn't mean you own the copyright of the Mario franchise or the copyright of Super Mario 3 itself. No, you actually own the cartridge in which CONTAIN the data of Super Mario 3. Because you've paid for the cartridge, the cartridge itself is your's since you paid for the product, but you can't use the data of the game itself to make money out of it. You can then give the cartridge to your friend, or even eat it if you want, since you own the cartridge itself. You can dismantled the cartridge and put it back together as you will.

 

OK, but let's say you take that Super Mario 3 cartridge and you put a fan-translated copy of Final Fantasy II on it. Where is that copy of Final Fantasy II coming from? Well, somebody's taking a copy from his computer and burning it to a set of ROM chips. He's making a copy -- a copy not authorized by the copyright holder. It is illegal. Period.

It can be legal to some extend. If you made mass production, like DVD movie, then at this point it could become a serious issue. Hack game itself should not, and i repeat, SHOULD NOT be sold themself all alone. If we do that for hacked game, should we have to pay for mod? The reason why we pay for a reproduction cartridge, it's for the material.

 

 

At that point, it's not about giving money for the software contain in the game, but rather for the actual material only.

 

If that were true, all used games for a given platform would go for the same price, because they're all made out of the same materials. Why do used EarthBound cartridges go for $100+ on eBay? Because the plastic, circuit boards, and ROM chips they're made of are expensive -- or because it's EarthBound? I'll give you a hint: most games made from exactly the same parts go for 1/10th that price.

No, you're dead wrong on this! The price and value may depend on many factor, including a small amount of copy produce. Look at the US version of Sonic 1 on the Master System. This game is fucking expensive. But if you look the UK version, it's dirt cheap. But it's the same game. So the price don't have ANYTHING to do with the actual software, but instead of the codebar on the box. That's right, a very small amount of box contain a codebar that identify the copy of the game in the US were produced. This specific codebar are found in VERY small amount and distinguish this version from the PAL version. The rarety of the codebar make all the difference for this case, not the software hold in the cartridge itself.

 

Another exemple: Burning Ranger for the Saturn. I got this game in a Montreal store for 150$. But if you look the Japanese version, the game is very not expensive. Yet again, it's the same game. The reason why this game is so expensive in the North American and the European version but not the Japanese version, it's because not alot of copy were produce here and in Europe. The rarety is, once again, based entirely on a small amount of copy. I could give you more exemple, but i think you get it.

[Alextendo]

There is a fallacy in Alextendo's point and it's that you can still find original cartridges in auction houses like ebay and such. Sure it'll cost money, but you can most certainly be certain that the product is genuine and not a facsimile. It's the equivalent of buying a romdump of a video game that has been copied into a USB stick. There is no value to it as a collector's item, and you're just throwing money away at someone who took someone else's work trying to make money off of it.

 

This is why a lot of fan-translated ROMs and ISOs of old games have a message saying that if you paid money for this, ask for a refund.

You shouldn't have to paid for the software. Like i said, paying a reproduction cartridge should solely based on the actual material, not the software contain in it.

[furrykef]

You're essentially arguing that the software has zero value, and so it should be able to be reproduced freely. But anyone even vaguely familiar with copyright laws knows that's not true, and you can't just give away free copies of software. Putting it in a cartridge first doesn't magically grant you that right either.

[Valerie Valens]

Yeah, no. The medium has no value, it's the software contained within that has value. By buying a reproduction cartridge of a fan-translation, you are doing more damage than if you just outright pirated the damn image. You are legitimizing actual, honest-to-god-piracy as a viable business model, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking that this is right.

 

How would you feel if some lowlife hack decided to take your work that you distribute for free, and then make money out of it, YOUR hard work? It's exploitative, and it's ethically bankrupt, simple as that.

[Alextendo]

You're essentially arguing that the software has zero value, and so it should be able to be reproduced freely. But anyone even vaguely familiar with copyright laws knows that's not true, and you can't just give away free copies of software. Putting it in a cartridge first doesn't magically grant you that right either.

By your logic, do you think Nintendo should re-released Earthbound on the Virtual Console for 100$?

 

No! They don't, because the game don't have that value. The reason why the game is so expensive is because you have to pay for the box, tha manual, the cartridge. You need to paid for all of this.

Yeah, no. The medium has no value, it's the software contained within that has value. By buying a reproduction cartridge of a fan-translation, you are doing more damage than if you just outright pirated the damn image. You are legitimizing actual, honest-to-god-piracy as a viable business model, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking that this is right.

 

How would you feel if some lowlife hack decided to take your work that you distribute for free, and then make money out of it, YOUR hard work? It's exploitative, and it's ethically bankrupt, simple as that.

What the fuck was that? Did i really need someone else on my back now? Also, did i wasn't clear enough already?

 

I would say it again: A hacked game, or even a PC mod, should NOT get any money. In other word, if you make a PC Mod or a hack, you shouldn't have the right to sell it.

 

The reason why people pay for a reproduction cartridge, it's because of the material with which the cartridge is made of, but also the handcraft. But the sowftare SHOULD NOT be sold itself, because it's based on a copyright property.

[Reed Teran]

Ladies, please. I think that this should move to it's own topic, since I'm sure most of this has no relation to reviewing the last game you played.

And on the topic of all that, I say let People be people. If someone wants to mmake a fan-translated/hacked game, let them! It's impossible for you to stop them, so you shouldn't whine about it. If the companies that made such games wanted to run around suing every hacker for copyright, they would. But I think they have more important business things to do. Like business.

Stopping a guy from making a fan-translated cartridge or a hack is like stopping a youtuber from making an Abridged series, or a modder from making a mod. Its impossible because you can't do anything about it as a person. And the companies don't much care. Hell, some mods became full on games, like Half Life and Team Fortress. But the owner of the games they modded off of said NOTHING, though they used THEIR engine and THEIR gear to make said mods.

In the end, you just can't do jack, cuz you are a people. And what can you do about it? Nothing.

[Uncle Ben]

Pokemon Emerald: 9/10 (Gen III is my favorite)