45 replies to this topic

[FunnelVortex]

Sonic was trying to protect his "little Bro." HOW he did it wasnt the right way to do it though...

That's exactly my point!

[Uncle Ben]

this is really controversial...

Sonic was trying to protect his "little Bro." HOW he did it wasnt the right way to do it though...

That's exactly my point!

sorry if im not clear on what i meant... im just terrible stating my ideas at times

[FunnelVortex]

Would you rather be the one to hurt your best friend or the girl he is head over heals with?? I'm glad i don't have to pick that... but I'm sticking with Sonic on this one cause his intent was to have Tails be hurt by him... not her

Neither actually because it's like choosing between getting punched in the gut or having salt poured on a wound. Nobody wins

If I was Sonic, I would have if anything try to put a good word in for his little bro towards Fiona to maybe possibly give him a chance one day. Sure, it would be a huge long shot, but at least then Sonic would act like he cares about Tails' feelings.

Here, this decision was wrong on 2 accounts

1. He basically dated a girl that he didn't love, because he wouldn't have said that to Tails he didn't if he did.

2. Tails saw it as Sonic trying to score with the girl he wanted, and it infuriated him.

The only way I could sympathize with Sonic on this is if he felt dating Fiona took some of the emotional pain away of Sally rejecting him, but that's not the impression Flynn gave me at all after 179. Quite the opposite actually.

That is worse.

You want your best friend to get over a woman, so you date her? WHAT KIND OF SENSE DOES THAT MAKE?!?!

Sonic was ASKING for Tails to hate him! And Sonic and Tails are like brothers, they would NEVER fight! But then again, Ian was like "hey, let's shake things up" so he does this stupid story and turns Sonic into a dick just for shockvalue.

WHAT THE **** FLYNN!?

When I listened to other people's opinion about this, I started to realize how conveluted and nonsensical they can be. Just what Ken and Ian were thinking? More importantly, what are the editors were thinking when they approved this mess? I can't believe I let those slide when I first read them.

Well, now you know better.

[LaserX5]

Flynn did a terrible job with that one... the only thing that came out of that arc was the Concil... and that wasn't greatly received as i remember

I hated the Council idea. They literally are a bunch of incompetent morons.

New Mobotropolis would have been better off as a Monarchy than being ruled by those clowns.

[FunnelVortex]

The council: The Sonic version of the US Congress.

[LaserX5]

The council: The Sonic version of the US Congress.

Heh... nice one.

[Uncle Ben]

The council: The Sonic version of the US Congress.

Sad part is that its true...

[RedAuthar]

1) It's never been stated that Sonic developed feelings for Fiona. Also, he hates Scourge because Scourge is him, but evil, and he hates evil and stuff. Hence why he's capable of hating Robotnik, Eggman, Naugus, Mogul, Regina, etc, or having a rivalry with Shadow or Knuckles, without them stealing his girlfriend. It's also worth noting that Scourge was pathetic before 161 overpowered him, so he likely didn't consider him a threat.

2) Well, he still did. He could have simply refused her advances, or nudged her in Tails' direction, but he went for the botched dating plan.

3) Sonic is 17-18 by now. Fiona is sixteen. She says 'closer' to her own age in 155, never that they're the same age.

4) Again, Sonic was older, and if Mighty knew where to go to find Ray, then it obviously wasn't that hard to find. He doesn't even make a token effort to find her after Robotnik's death.

1) Fair enough. Except for Scourge had appear as Scourge before that and Sonic never considered him a rival. Just an evil clone.

2) He didn't want her to hurt Tails because he knew she had no interest in him and the whole dating thing WAS because he started to have feelings for her. If he wasn't interested he wouldn't have done it. Two Fiona admitted to only liking him AFTER Scourge. So in reality she used him because Scourge was unavailable.

3) K. Double Checked Sonic is 17. Big difference.

4) Mighty looked and didn't find Ray until Fiona and Nic helped. Also for Ray only an Hour passed so Ray had been lost for YEARS. Also Sonic was 9, Robotnik had millions of hidden bases, and Fiona did escape on her own and found Nic the Weasel, the never said Sonic DIDN'T look just that he never was ABLE to rescue her.

[PuffinGrandeur]

He didn't want Tails to never hurt, he wanted Tails to get over Fiona. It backired obviously, but he clearly wasn't trying to hurt Tails in a way that wouldn't lead to growth. That it ended badly doesn't make him the worst person, nor does it make the whole thing convoluted: what it does is add a reason when before Sonic had literally NONE.

[LaserX5]

1) Fair enough. Except for Scourge had appear as Scourge before that and Sonic never considered him a rival. Just an evil clone.

2) He didn't want her to hurt Tails because he knew she had no interest in him and the whole dating thing WAS because he started to have feelings for her. If he wasn't interested he wouldn't have done it. Two Fiona admitted to only liking him AFTER Scourge. So in reality she used him because Scourge was unavailable.

3) K. Double Checked Sonic is 17. Big difference.

4) Mighty looked and didn't find Ray until Fiona and Nic helped. Also for Ray only an Hour passed so Ray had been lost for YEARS. Also Sonic was 9, Robotnik had millions of hidden bases, and Fiona did escape on her own and found Nic the Weasel, the never said Sonic DIDN'T look just that he never was ABLE to rescue her.

Here's his response to this one.

1) I'd never consider him a rival at all. Shadow is a rival, Scourge is a flat-out enemy.

2) Sonic says in 179 "I was never interested in her in the first place". Dating Fiona was his plan. Not getting her to talk to him and let him down gently. Also, just because shee was using him, doesn't mean that makes it okay for him to use her. The point of this is that Fiona has been called out on her actions time and again, and Sonic hasn't. Even then, she has the excuse of a damaged psyche (Also thanks in part to Sonic), and a master manipulater trying to convince her. Sonic did it all of his own accord.

3) Still counts.

4) But Mighty still went looking for Ray. We're never shown any attempt on Sonic's part to find Fiona. Not even when Tails was almost killed by a robot copy of her does it grab his attention.

He didn't want Tails to never hurt, he wanted Tails to get over Fiona. It backired obviously, but he clearly wasn't trying to hurt Tails in a way that wouldn't lead to growth. That it ended badly doesn't make him the worst person, nor does it make the whole thing convoluted: what it does is add a reason when before Sonic had literally NONE.

Here's his response to your post

Sonic thought that dating Fiona would make Tails move on. It failed. Horrendously. So Sonic... continued? I don't get it.

He did have a reason before the 179 retcon. We can simply say that he was indeed interested in Fiona.

[RedAuthar]

1) Fair enough. Except for Scourge had appear as Scourge before that and Sonic never considered him a rival. Just an evil clone.

2) He didn't want her to hurt Tails because he knew she had no interest in him and the whole dating thing WAS because he started to have feelings for her. If he wasn't interested he wouldn't have done it. Two Fiona admitted to only liking him AFTER Scourge. So in reality she used him because Scourge was unavailable.

3) K. Double Checked Sonic is 17. Big difference.

4) Mighty looked and didn't find Ray until Fiona and Nic helped. Also for Ray only an Hour passed so Ray had been lost for YEARS. Also Sonic was 9, Robotnik had millions of hidden bases, and Fiona did escape on her own and found Nic the Weasel, the never said Sonic DIDN'T look just that he never was ABLE to rescue her.

Here's his response to this one.

1) I'd never consider him a rival at all. Shadow is a rival, Scourge is a flat-out enemy.

2) Sonic says in 179 "I was never interested in her in the first place". Dating Fiona was his plan. Not getting her to talk to him and let him down gently. Also, just because shee was using him, doesn't mean that makes it okay for him to use her. The point of this is that Fiona has been called out on her actions time and again, and Sonic hasn't. Even then, she has the excuse of a damaged psyche (Also thanks in part to Sonic), and a master manipulater trying to convince her. Sonic did it all of his own accord.

3) Still counts.

4) But Mighty still went looking for Ray. We're never shown any attempt on Sonic's part to find Fiona. Not even when Tails was almost killed by a robot copy of her does it grab his attention.

He didn't want Tails to never hurt, he wanted Tails to get over Fiona. It backired obviously, but he clearly wasn't trying to hurt Tails in a way that wouldn't lead to growth. That it ended badly doesn't make him the worst person, nor does it make the whole thing convoluted: what it does is add a reason when before Sonic had literally NONE.

Here's his response to your post

Sonic thought that dating Fiona would make Tails move on. It failed. Horrendously. So Sonic... continued? I don't get it.

He did have a reason before the 179 retcon. We can simply say that he was indeed interested in Fiona.

1. Then why would he care if Fiona went over?

2. Reread the issue. He never said that. He said he knew Fiona wasn't interested in Tails.

3. One year older does not instantly make him the mature older one.

4. Sonic didn't know about Auto-Fiona. Also we've never been told he didn't search either. Also Sonic meets Sally in issue 2, yet later they state they grew up together. Flash backs in the series are sketchy at best.

[LaserX5]

1. Then why would he care if Fiona went over?

2. Reread the issue. He never said that. He said he knew Fiona wasn't interested in Tails.

3. One year older does not instantly make him the mature older one.

4. Sonic didn't know about Auto-Fiona. Also we've never been told he didn't search either. Also Sonic meets Sally in issue 2, yet later they state they grew up together. Flash backs in the series are sketchy at best.

Here's his response.

1) She was still his friend, still someone he cared about, still a member of the team, still important to Tails, still a field medic, and she was also joining Scourge. Also known as 'Sonic, but when he's a total prick it's not OOC'.

2) Right.

3) It makes him older, and still someone who Fiona would look up to in such a situation.

4) Tails would have told him. He might not have believed Tails entirely, but the name would pique his curiosity. Hey, if you guys can assume stuff about the offscreen, then so can I. Using issue 2, or indeed anything from the early issues (When Sally was pink), is sketchy at best. Continuity wasn;t really a thing for the comic then, and once the comic started being more like SatAM in tone, then they changed it to fit the SatAM backstory more.

[RedAuthar]

1. Then why would he care if Fiona went over?

2. Reread the issue. He never said that. He said he knew Fiona wasn't interested in Tails.

3. One year older does not instantly make him the mature older one.

4. Sonic didn't know about Auto-Fiona. Also we've never been told he didn't search either. Also Sonic meets Sally in issue 2, yet later they state they grew up together. Flash backs in the series are sketchy at best.

Here's his response.

1) She was still his friend, still someone he cared about, still a member of the team, still important to Tails, still a field medic, and she was also joining Scourge. Also known as 'Sonic, but when he's a total prick it's not OOC'.

2) Right.

3) It makes him older, and still someone who Fiona would look up to in such a situation.

4) Tails would have told him. He might not have believed Tails entirely, but the name would pique his curiosity. Hey, if you guys can assume stuff about the offscreen, then so can I. Using issue 2, or indeed anything from the early issues (When Sally was pink), is sketchy at best. Continuity wasn;t really a thing for the comic then, and once the comic started being more like SatAM in tone, then they changed it to fit the SatAM backstory more.

This is fun!

1) Could have been friend, could have been more. Nothing states he didn't have feelings for her.
2) Right
3) Also Reread (if you can) Knuckles the Hedgehog 26-28. Sonic didn't actually MEET Fiona. She was just another of many Mobians he failed to rescue.
4) Also in KtE 28 she mentions she was transferred to another facility. Since Sonic hadn't really met her, the best he could do is search every facility, which would involve searching every facility he came across. So arguably he's been searching for any survivors for the whole series.

[DCC]

I want Sonic and Sally to be together, so I didn't like Sonic and Fiora together. So I do agree that Sonic should never have dated Fiora and did not behave in a good way in the Fiora situation, even if Sally was not a factor.

This kind of reminds me of the whole Korra, Mako, Bolin, and Asami mess in "the Ledgen of Korra." Writers/creators need to understand that some do judge heroes by how they conduct their romanic life. I am convinced that some people want their heroes to be protrayed, maybe not perfect, but at least better that what we are presented with these days.

[blue]

I want Sonic and Sally to be together, so I didn't like Sonic and Fiora together. So I do agree that Sonic should never have dated Fiora and did not behave in a good way in the Fiora situation, even if Sally was not a factor.

This kind of reminds me of the whole Korra, Mako, Bolin, and Asami mess in "the Ledgen of Korra." Writers/creators need to understand that some do judge heroes by how they conduct their romanic life. I am convinced that some people want their heroes to be protrayed, maybe not perfect, but at least better that what we are presented with these days.

Fiora? Really? Is it suppose to be Fiona?

[LaserX5]

This is fun!

1) Could have been friend, could have been more. Nothing states he didn't have feelings for her.
2) Right
3) Also Reread (if you can) Knuckles the Hedgehog 26-28. Sonic didn't actually MEET Fiona. She was just another of many Mobians he failed to rescue.
4) Also in KtE 28 she mentions she was transferred to another facility. Since Sonic hadn't really met her, the best he could do is search every facility, which would involve searching every facility he came across. So arguably he's been searching for any survivors for the whole series.

This will be the last reply I'll show of his unless you want to continue

1) And nothing states that he does.

2) Pretty sure there's no such character or comic as Knuckles the Hedgehog. Also, when she explains her backstory, she states that they knew each other personally. Another of Flynn's retcons, of course, but that seems to the theme here. He tries to make Sonic less of an asshole, and only makes things worse

3) Again, Flynn's retcons imply that there was no second facility.

[RedAuthar]

This is fun!

1) Could have been friend, could have been more. Nothing states he didn't have feelings for her.
2) Right
3) Also Reread (if you can) Knuckles the Hedgehog 26-28. Sonic didn't actually MEET Fiona. She was just another of many Mobians he failed to rescue.
4) Also in KtE 28 she mentions she was transferred to another facility. Since Sonic hadn't really met her, the best he could do is search every facility, which would involve searching every facility he came across. So arguably he's been searching for any survivors for the whole series.

This will be the last reply I'll show of his unless you want to continue

1) And nothing states that he does.

2) Pretty sure there's no such character or comic as Knuckles the Hedgehog. Also, when she explains her backstory, she states that they knew each other personally. Another of Flynn's retcons, of course, but that seems to the theme here. He tries to make Sonic less of an asshole, and only makes things worse

3) Again, Flynn's retcons imply that there was no second facility.

1) There are more hints that he cared for her then didn't

2) I can type English. I promise. The closest she mentions to them knowing each other is she claims he forgot her. However that's from her point of view. Sonic didn't save a lot of people.

3) I don't think there is any. Sources please?

[Uncle Ben]

this is getting amusing

[LaserX5]

1) There are more hints that he cared for her then didn't

2) I can type English. I promise. The closest she mentions to them knowing each other is she claims he forgot her. However that's from her point of view. Sonic didn't save a lot of people.

3) I don't think there is any. Sources please?

1) Which is another reason why the retcon sucks. I fully agree with you that it looked like Sonic and Fiona were an actual thing. The problem is that Flynn's retcon flat-out says that Sonic was never interested. It clashes with the established events, and it makes Sonic look like a complete asshole.

2) It would be nice if I wasn't finding this stuff out from a fan, instead of Flynn's writing. It, of course, would not be a problem if Flynn hadn't brought it up. Penders put it to rest and quietly ignored it by having Fiona move on and forgive Sonic. It becomes a problem when Flynn makes her un-forgive him and makes it part of her motive for turning evil, to boot.

3) Both of Fiona's retellings of her backstory (Which conflict with each other because Flynn is a bad writer) imply that there was only one facility, not the two facilities that her original appearance stated.

[RedAuthar]

1) There are more hints that he cared for her then didn't

2) I can type English. I promise. The closest she mentions to them knowing each other is she claims he forgot her. However that's from her point of view. Sonic didn't save a lot of people.

3) I don't think there is any. Sources please?

1) Which is another reason why the retcon sucks. I fully agree with you that it looked like Sonic and Fiona were an actual thing. The problem is that Flynn's retcon flat-out says that Sonic was never interested. It clashes with the established events, and it makes Sonic look like a complete asshole.

2) It would be nice if I wasn't finding this stuff out from a fan, instead of Flynn's writing. It, of course, would not be a problem if Flynn hadn't brought it up. Penders put it to rest and quietly ignored it by having Fiona move on and forgive Sonic. It becomes a problem when Flynn makes her un-forgive him and makes it part of her motive for turning evil, to boot.

3) Both of Fiona's retellings of her backstory (Which conflict with each other because Flynn is a bad writer) imply that there was only one facility, not the two facilities that her original appearance stated.

....you know...maybe Ian should actually read the issue.