73 replies to this topic

[RedAuthar]

Uh....not to disagree...but In lots of comics when fans ask "why" people usually answer unless it's spoiler.

[saber16]

Hey, in the end the writers and aritsts have their final say.
Frankly, I just don't like the outfit. I'm fine with everything else, but it's just the design, but then again maybe I'm just not used to sally wearing pants. Maybe some tweaking will be done to it, maybe they'll just go back to the original, or maybe fans will chill. I still stand by what I said, the whole idea of change feels needless for me because I never saw the characters as outdated, but that's just me. I still like the writing, and maybe I'll eat my own words and love the new designs when they settle in.
I don't have a clue.

.... Heh, a group of grown ups whining about the new design for a cartoon chipmunk... man, that's hilarious.

[Uncle Ben]

.... Heh, a group of grown ups whining about the new design for a cartoon chipmunk... man, that's hilarious.

Do we REALLY have nothing better to do??

[RedAuthar]

Why do you think we're here?

[Uncle Ben]

exactly

[ILOVEVHS]

Couldn't have said it better.

[LogiTeeka]

.... Heh, a group of grown ups whining about the new design for a cartoon chipmunk... man, that's hilarious.

There's nothing like a sudden realization of an ongoing, pointless argument. This is the reason why I hate politics.

[Uncle Ben]

you and 85% of America including my self

[bwrosas]

I Agree it's kinda funny. But I feel the reason we are talking about it so much, is because WE grew up with the "Open Vest" look for near 19 years, and it's basically a bit a shock for us to see that all change.

In fact I remember many years ago, The team owners tried to get the fans to like a new logo for the 49ers, with the the SF gone from the helmet and replaced with just the 49ers logo on the side. They left up to a vote and fans turn the new design down with a majority hating it and some liking it. (Strange example, I know)

Now true, we've all given our mixed feelings about it, but the reason for that is for the reason or at least one of two them being the soccer parents groups and possibly SEGA's mandates for the change and other possible changes in the future.

Now I've said this before and I'll say it again, it's all going depend on the reaction when the offically Final Design debuts within next year. Because right if the reaction contunies to be mixed, I can see them doing to Sally, what they at times do with Bunnie, and that's have her go back and forth between the new and the orginal, just like when they have Bunnie go from wearing her Cowgril outfit and back to just her pink leotard outfit. That's what I feel May happen if the reaction to Sally's new design contunies to be mixed going into next year and up to it's offically debut.

[Prime]

Hey, in the end the writers and aritsts have their final say.
Frankly, I just don't like the outfit. I'm fine with everything else, but it's just the design, but then again maybe I'm just not used to sally wearing pants. Maybe some tweaking will be done to it, maybe they'll just go back to the original, or maybe fans will chill. I still stand by what I said, the whole idea of change feels needless for me because I never saw the characters as outdated, but that's just me. I still like the writing, and maybe I'll eat my own words and love the new designs when they settle in.
I don't have a clue.

.... Heh, a group of grown ups whining about the new design for a cartoon chipmunk... man, that's hilarious.

Pretty much this.

There ani't nothing wrong with having a discussion about something like this, expressing the things that we like and don't like about it.

But it's those people who insist that this redesign has ruined Sally forever, be it the fact she is has a new costume, or she's wearing pants or heaven forbid the fact she no longer has her tuffs of cheek fur of all things! These people need to have a long look in the mirror at themselves and say "Has it really come to this? I am so butthurt over something as trivial as a redesign? Surely she's still the same character on the inside right? And it's not like she hasn't had other designs before and she still resembles the character I've always known... But is this redesign so bad that it's ruined everything forever? Is it really that bad?"

And then they need to punch themselves in the face.

Now true, we've all given our mixed feelings about it, but the reason for that is for the reason or at least one of two them being the soccer parents groups and possibly SEGA's mandates for the change and other possible changes in the future.

Can you actually provide any proof to this theory, or is it just the usual spout of bullcrap most fans claim to be fact? Here's a bit of advice, something that happened nearly 20 years ago with a TV show (and that's even if it did happen because we only heard one person's claim to it) doesn't mean it's the same problem for this comic book now. Sally has been wearing the vest look for over 15 years in the comic and you really think it's the "soccer parents" writing into Archie demanding a change? If that was the case, why the hell has it taken them 15+ years to finally change it?

Oh I can see it right now at the Archie offices... "Oh no! Watch out guys! Them "soccer parents" are getting all up in my grill about this! They gonna take away mah Sally unless we redesign her!"

"Soccer parents" are serious business folks. Best not piss them off.

[furrykef]

Pretty much this.

There ani't nothing wrong with having a discussion about something like this, expressing the things that we like and don't like about it.

But it's those people who insist that this redesign has ruined Sally forever, be it the fact she is has a new costume, or she's wearing pants or heaven forbid the fact she no longer has her tuffs of cheek fur of all things! These people need to have a long look in the mirror at themselves and say "Has it really come to this? I am so butthurt over something as trivial as a redesign? Surely she's still the same character on the inside right? And it's not like she hasn't had other designs before and she still resembles the character I've always known... But is this redesign so bad that it's ruined everything forever? Is it really that bad?"

And then they need to punch themselves in the face.

I was gonna leave this stuff alone, but this is so stupid it hurts :|

Of course a character's design has to do with why we like a character or not! That's why people bother to put thought into such things. A character's attire, not to mention overall design, is an expression of his or her attitude. I look at this new Sally and it just isn't the Sally that I (if you'll pardon the expression and not take it too literally) fell in love with. I mean, think about it -- if the redesign were meaningless, they wouldn't have done it, right? And indeed it is meaningful: it's to bring her closer to SegaSonic, which is a direction I do not like. Of course, Archie has been moving in that direction for over a decade now, so they've already lost me and I suppose my opinion of this new change doesn't really matter. Still, I can't keep silent if I'm being told I should punch myself in the face for, God forbid, having an opinion.

In short, having these sorts of reactions, even some of the more extreme ones, is natural. Get over it.

[Prime]

I was gonna leave this stuff alone, but this is so stupid it hurts :|

Of course a character's design has to do with why we like a character or not! That's why people bother to put thought into such things. A character's attire, not to mention overall design, is an expression of his or her attitude. I look at this new Sally and it just isn't the Sally that I (if you'll pardon the expression and not take it too literally) fell in love with. I mean, think about it -- if the redesign were meaningless, they wouldn't have done it, right? And indeed it is meaningful: it's to bring her closer to SegaSonic, which is a direction I do not like. Of course, Archie has been moving in that direction for over a decade now, so they've already lost me and I suppose my opinion of this new change doesn't really matter. Still, I can't keep silent if I'm being told I should punch myself in the face for, God forbid, having an opinion.

In short, having these sorts of reactions, even some of the more extreme ones, is natural. Get over it.

You may think my response is stupid, and perhaps it is, but the fact you are taking something like a redesign of a character so seriously is kinda sad in itself really, and stupid too.

Okay, so you are passionate about Sally as many other people are, hell I'm passionate about things too, but to go as far as getting majorly upset about how a character looks? That's the difference between you and me. Everytime a character in something I enjoy has been redesigned, I don't go as far as to declare it ruining that character. Characters get redesigned all the time and sometimes its a good look, sometimes not so good, but I still stick through it. I like the characters for WHO they are, not WHAT they are wearing. if I were as shallow as that, I wouldn't care for the Sixth Doctor in Doctor Who because that costume was horrid. But the Sixth Doctor is a personal favourite of mine.

If I did that, I would of declared the new Judge Dredd movie an instant failure because his costume was nothing like the comic version! Man I would of been BAWWWWWWing from the beginning and declaring Judge Dredd ruined! But no, I excepted the fact a redesign of that costume was needed and it didn't bother me or ruin my enjoyment of the movie.

And what about The Dark Knight? Hell, I rememeber when images of The Joker were released, fans were raging soooo hard because of it, crying that it looked nothing like The Joker and how this movie would be terrible, all because of how ONE character looked. And look what happened after the movie was release! Oh look! Heather Ledger is getting praise for his portrayal of the character and suddenly that look for The Joker is insanely popular.

If people are going to go so upset over how Sally looks now, saying crap like "It's not her!" "This has ruined Sally for me forever now!" and so forth, then you peeps, while you may be passionate about the character, need a good long look at yourself. And perhaps you guys need to "get over it" as well.

[Uncle Ben]

Some people are never satisfied...

[SBaby]

I was gonna leave this stuff alone, but this is so stupid it hurts :|

Of course a character's design has to do with why we like a character or not! That's why people bother to put thought into such things. A character's attire, not to mention overall design, is an expression of his or her attitude. I look at this new Sally and it just isn't the Sally that I (if you'll pardon the expression and not take it too literally) fell in love with. I mean, think about it -- if the redesign were meaningless, they wouldn't have done it, right? And indeed it is meaningful: it's to bring her closer to SegaSonic, which is a direction I do not like. Of course, Archie has been moving in that direction for over a decade now, so they've already lost me and I suppose my opinion of this new change doesn't really matter. Still, I can't keep silent if I'm being told I should punch myself in the face for, God forbid, having an opinion.

In short, having these sorts of reactions, even some of the more extreme ones, is natural. Get over it.

You may think my response is stupid, and perhaps it is, but the fact you are taking something like a redesign of a character so seriously is kinda sad in itself really, and stupid too.

I'm not going to get into the redesign or my thoughts on it too much. The way I look at it, true SatAM fans will understand why there are people that are upset. For me, it's not so much the redesign anyway, as it is what he said about SatAM.

That message to put it simply, is a slap in the face of all fans of SatAM.

If he wants to change something or a design in the comics, fine. Go ahead and change it. But the moment he starts saying those kinds of things about SatAM (and by extension, the fanbase), that's crossing a line.

Who are you, Ian Flynn, a guy that nobody outside of the Comic fanbase has ever heard of, to say something like that? Let me tell you what I think of the Archie Comics. I think every time I read any of them past Endgame, my insomnia is cured. They're not entertaining, they're not fun to read, they rely so much on shock value as opposed to actual character development, that I've given up trying to care about any of the characters. Didn't we learn anything from the third X-Men movie? Randomly killing off characters and changing things DOESN'T WORK! And threatening to nuke the SatAM cast is not helping your image among SatAM fans. And don't say it wasn't a threat. We're not idiots. We know who that comment was directed toward.

And you are going to tell us that SatAM is outdated and niche? The Archie Sonic Comics are the very definition of the word, 'niche'. I wouldn't even have known about them if it wasn't for this site, Einstein. And I imagine the same rings true for other casual members on this site.

Not to mention, Ian has no respect for the fans. None. He made that explicitly clear when he started banning people for correctly guessing what he plans to do with his characters and for giving him constructive criticism regarding his site. Why should I respect someone that clearly doesn't respect his own fans?

[fishtheimpaler]

Uh....not to disagree...but In lots of comics when fans ask "why" people usually answer unless it's spoiler.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing; I may not know what I'm talking about here. If public shouting matches between authors, publishers, and readers are the norm in the industry, then they're the norm.

Not that there's a part of me, perhaps clinging to outmoded notions of authorship and reading, that doesn't think the industry standard may be a little stupid . . . .

Hey, in the end the writers and aritsts have their final say.

. . . and this is why. In the end, the book speaks for itself, and people like it or they don't. People can have arguments about taste and what have you, but for an author herself to wade in and argue that her own work kicks ass with someone that thinks it doesn't is unseemly. I'm trying to think of examples in other industries where publishers and authors have gone out to argue with their own critics, and they always tend to be highly embarrassing episodes--UA complaining that Heaven's Gate was "destroyed" by "unfair" negative reviews; George Lucas telling everyone to shut the hell up about Jar Jar Binks because Star Wars is for children, he wasn't even trying to make a film you would enjoy, etc.

If you want to change a character's look--you think it's a good idea for the story or what have you--do it. If someone says they don't like it, arguing with them makes you look like a jackass; prove them wrong by turning out good product. If the publishers are making you change a character's look against your better judgment, then again, do it, and I suppose saying "they made me do it" doesn't make you personally look bad, but I'm kind of surprised your bosses would let you throw them under the bus in public without a stink. (Most of the recrimination-against-producers I can think of off the top of my head tends to be after-the-fact, like Joss Wheedon bitching about his Firefly episode sequence getting screwed up, or the Arrested Development crew bitching that they were the tops with critics for three goddamn years--maybe no one's watching because the Fox network doesn't know how to promote a show?)

Yet that seems to be what's happening here--a bit on both levels, given the portion of the response to question that amounts to "either we do X or the comic gets cancelled." And I guess if it's happening here, or happening throughout the industry, it must be a sustainable model.

[PuffinGrandeur]

It wasn't a threat. It was obviously not a threat, it was the opposite. What he said was "if I didn't want them around, I could have gotten rid of them any time I wanted. The fact that I haven't should be some evidence that I want them around." Fandom's really good at cherry picking the shit they don't want to hear and blowing it out of control (and context.)

[RedAuthar]

Also again. He's the writer. I'm sure the guys above him have to approve what he writes first. Technically everyone should be mad at Mike Pellerito and Victor Gorelick. They are the final say on what happens and what doesn't.

[Uncle Ben]

Flynn is someone we know so its kinda likely he would take the heat

[RedMenace]

Victor Gorelick has been around much longer.

[Uncle Ben]

true