636 replies to this topic

[Prime]

Just mix in some thoughtful points with all the insults to each others mothers, and we'll be good.

I'll make a note of that.

[bwrosas]

First off : everyone has a right to their opinion.

Now back on topic :

One I see it could go, is if it goes the way PRIME and some others are saying, My theory (one of them) is, that when she is restored, her vest and boots may be shredded, and hair messed up a bit, thus she would have to get a new outfit to replace the destoryed one.

[LaserX5]

What do you mean I won't be "convinced" until I see it myself? I'm looking at it right now and I'm telling her you hair in the Mecha Sally design looks a hell of a lot like her hair did in 230 before she was roboticized compared to this new design at all.There is nothing in the current Mecha Sally's design of her hair that remotely looks like like the new design bar the color.

There was also nothing in Sonic to suggest he'd have laser weapons added to his arms when he'd be roboticized either, but it happened due to creative liberties.

Same thing here. Sally's new design is a combination of her Mecha Sally form and making her another SegaSonic female character as a way to appeal to the new generation of fans and SOJ.

Next off about this whole cheek fur bullcrap so many people at raging about. Maybe because this design hasn't been finalized yet? We don't know IF they are going to use it at all. The design we saw was a rough sketch, possible one of a dozen or two that had been thought up and they might of gone with that one because it was the better choice of the bunch, but the fact remains it's still a rough sketch and possible it's not been finalized. But goddamn this is such a big issue, you seem to forget that her original design which they used at the beginning of the comic didn't have cheek fur too. You gonna rage about that too? Or the fact that her original boots were blue with white stripes?

Ok, you make a good point about it being a possible rough draft design. Nevertheless, I'm sticking to my point. When Sally is finally magically deroboticized, she will most likely be wearing the Segafied design the split second she's returned to normal.

And for the last time, I'm not raging about it. I'm just flat-out disgusted. Big difference. Sally gets graphically butchered just for more pointless shockvalue and turning her into another bland SegaSonic female in an attempt to get rid of the nakedness controversy that surrounded her. If Sega is that determined to force Archie Sonic to make Sally become one of the Sega female cast, which I believe is strong possibility they did, why don't they just reboot the whole series and Segafy the whole comic cast and be done with it?

This was dirty pool tactics in my book. She gets blasted with a turret for a publicity stunt, turned into a robot, then scientifically violated by Eggman with a blowtorch, and all just to make her a SegaSonic character? Yea, I'm sorry, but that kind of thinking only enhances my suspicion Archie Sonic and Sega do not like Sally one bit.

You don't do subject a character to stuff like that if you're fond of them.

I honestly doubt that when they decided to do this story they had already designed Sally's new look ahead of time by over a whole year.

I don't doubt it at all. You do realize an issue is done several months in advance before releasing it to the public, so they could have been had her Sega design in the works after getting weaponized in the book. Did you read what Flynn said on his DA Channel? He said her being deroboticized after this happened to her was the way the book was going to go to end the story. So if that is true, then I'm almost certain they were thinking up designs for her as early as late 2011 before releasing this one.

What, do you really believe the bosses at Archie Sonic just told the artist a week before the con in NY, "Oh, by the way, Sally's going to get a new design after being deroboticized. Start drawing rough sketches so Flynn can show them to the fans, will ya?"

C'mon, you know better than that.

And even if they aren't, thats, one, count it, ONE thing that the Mecha Sally design has in common with the new Sally design, and that don't prove shit. It appears that you're just looking for anything in the two designs at all that can be linked together just so you can go on your rants. I've noticed that when you've been proven wrong, you either choose not to listen, ignoring what's been said, even when the proof is right in front of you, or you'll look for something else that will give your theory credit and then stick with that.

If it doesn't happen this way, I'll be very shocked because it's just way too obvious to me about what's going to happen here. Sally is going to a new outfit after she's magically deroboticized. No way do I see her choosing Sega rings and gloves, as well as a black shirt and shorts because if that was the direction Archie Sonic was going in, they would have just shown Sally choosing the new outfit like she did when asking Bunnie to cut her hair.

That's another side story Archie Sonic will have to devote to the comic if they went in that direction. Why would they do that when they've already wasted so much pointless time on this stupid story of her becoming roboticized just so Tails and Amy can get glorified as immortal Freedom Fighters while trying to save her? It wouldn't make any sense.

But fine, if I end up being wrong about this, I'll personally admit it just to show you I'm not some raging ranter, as I know you obviously think of me constantly. I guess you don't like it when you see people like me strongly expressing our opinion on here.

Whatever...

And as I've stated before about her new clothes? Yeah, no character in the history of comic books has ever changed their look. Nope, not at all. Yeah, this is a first and I can totally see the reason for all the butthurt now.

Sally getting a new look is not my beef with this whole controversy. It's the fact they jerked around with the emotions of her fans so flippantly for fun and game first. Believe it or not, I'm actually for Sally getting a new look because her vest and boots is sadly too controversial for those who want to accuse her of being a slut and a tramp because she doesn't cover up her breasts and other unmentionables. But like I said, this was just so insulting the way they made it happen. All they had to do was show Sally choosing to get a new outfit in a side story and that would have ended the nakedness issue, and then they could've had an epic story with her wearing it for the first time.

So simple, but yet Archie Sonic I guess wanted to mess around with the fanbase for awhile before doing that. Such a professional group if you ask me.

I can't believe people are putting so much effort into trying to convince each other that the Mecha Sally and New Sally designs are or aren't connected.

Now that I've seen the A/B comparison I think they look pretty distinct, with only the vaguest similarities. But I'm not gonna write a multi-paragraph rant about it, let alone more than one.

Every forum I've been on has done this on many topics. That's just how it goes.

Besides, isn't that what a forum is for? Discussing stuff, debating, even ranting a bit?

First off : everyone has a right to their opinion.

Now back on topic :

One I see it could go, is if it goes the way PRIME and some others are saying, My theory (one of them) is, that when she is restored, her vest and boots may be shredded, and hair messed up a bit, thus she would have to get a new outfit to replace the destroyed one.

No way do I see that happening. With so many of the comic's and Sega's fans making such a big deal about Sally being naked by wearing just a vest and boots, they'd be in up in arms if Sally came out of the deroboticization completely naked or very close to it. Plus, why would her hair being messed up lead to a completely different hair style? That doesn't add up at all. She could just fix her hair back the way it was if that was the case.

Personally, I just can't see this being anything other than Sally wearing whatever Archie Sonic decides as the final design after she's restored to normal. Let's also keep in mind that they took the lazy approach when showing Bunnie's bottom being covered with a full pink leotard after she was deroboticized, so why not here too?

[furrykef]

rant rant rant rant rant rant

rant!

rant rant?

rant rant rant.

rant.

[LogiTeeka]

rant rant rant rant rant rant

rant!

rant rant?

rant rant rant.

rant.

The Sonic fanbase in a nutshell, my friend. "Abandon all fun ye who enter here."

[ILOVEVHS]

Ohh God...

Spoiler

I thought Silver was gonna be the traitor. Be an interesting plot twist... or someone thats not important

Spoiler

Naw. The traitor is one of the original four founders of the Freedom Fighters (Sonic, Antoine, Rotor, and Sally). By process of elimination only one is left. Also Who shows Silver a picture with the four and crosses off three faces. You don't see who is left, but based on the location of the X's...it's Sally.

Spoiler

Could be Antoine for all wee know... he's still in a coma

Spoiler

The Cake Is A Lie!

[Prime]

First of all, just wanna point out that this isn't a rant, so anyone who says otherwise, I'ma punch you in the mouth with my dick.

There was also nothing in Sonic to suggest he'd have laser weapons added to his arms when he'd be roboticized either, but it happened due to creative liberties.

Yeah,it was the choice of the creative team behind the comic at the time. But let's not forget that continuity back then was sloppy as shit.

Same thing here. Sally's new design is a combination of her Mecha Sally form and making her another SegaSonic female character as a way to appeal to the new generation of fans and SOJ.

Really? I thought it was to, you know, actually make her look like a robot rather then a metal casing version of herself. Yeah without a doubt the Mecha look has that Metal Sonic design to it, but when you look back at the old roboticized forms, they tended to look like the character was wearing a suit of armor of themselves. Now they actually resemble, you know, a robot version of themselves.

I know you keep saying it, but I honestly can't see the new design in her Mecha design, and it has nothing to do with me refusing to see it, I've looked at the two side by side and the color schemes don't match at all. If when she's roboticized she is wearing it, it'll be a huge WTF moment as to how the hell it happens and yeah, it will be lazy and sloppy, but once again, we don't know that for sure. For all we know, she could come out with her old look, she could come out of it naked, she could come out wearing a costume that does look like her mecha design, maybe it'll look like a blue and silver full body suit with black boots. But we don't know.

And I really doubt Sega of Japan even care about this comic really. It's an American licensed project. Takara (Japanese company) don't over see every single western Transformers project that Hasbro works on for it's market, just like Hasbro don't over see every Transformers project Takara works on for it's market.

Ok, you make a good point about it being a possible rough draft design. Nevertheless, I'm sticking to my point. When Sally is finally magically deroboticized, she will most likely be wearing the Segafied design the split second she's returned to normal.

But you don't know that for sure, you are just assuming. If it does happen, then it's sloppy as hell because as I've stated, there's not much in terms of the two designs looking anything alike. And I'll admit if it happens, Flynn and the artists need a punch in the face.

And for the last time, I'm not raging about it. I'm just flat-out disgusted. Big difference. Sally gets graphically butchered just for more pointless shockvalue and turning her into another bland SegaSonic female in an attempt to get rid of the nakedness controversy that surrounded her. If Sega is that determined to force Archie Sonic to make Sally become one of the Sega female cast, which I believe is strong possibility they did, why don't they just reboot the whole series and Segafy the whole comic cast and be done with it?

This was dirty pool tactics in my book. She gets blasted with a turret for a publicity stunt, turned into a robot, then scientifically violated by Eggman with a blowtorch, and all just to make her a SegaSonic character? Yea, I'm sorry, but that kind of thinking only enhances my suspicion Archie Sonic and Sega do not like Sally one bit.

Can't exactly say it was pointless shockvalue because it took people by surprise and got then actually caring about what was happening in the comic. Plus she'd only be a bland SegaSonic female if she has no character to her at all, which we already know she has. And will she really be a SegaSonic character? Because she started life out in the cartoon and the comic and if this new design somehow manages to get her into the games, she'll still be seen as a comic/cartoon character by most people. She will never be considered a SegaSonic character at all. There's other characters in the comic that are only in the comic and have the SegaSonic look, but none of them are classed as SegaSonic and Sally will be no different.

And if it's a case of Sega and Archie hating the character, they would of gotten rid of her instead of keeping her around. I honestly doubt they'd care about a bunch of late 20-30 nobodys still reading a comic book aimed at children getting angry and boycotting them. We only make up a small fraction of the readership.

And I honestly doubt it was over the "nakedness cotroversy" as you put it because if it was, it took them nearly 20 years to sort that out, if it was a big deal, they'd of done it years ago. It's like when BW1979 constantly blames the soccer moms, you're just assuming it again and Flynn has even said that it has nothing to do with her being naked, it's because the design is old, needs refreshing. Not saying what he said is true, but it makes more sense then blaming the soccer moms with not proof to back it up.

You don't do subject a character to stuff like that if you're fond of them.

No, see that's the thing, you wouldn't subject a character to that kind of thing if you are fond of them. But you can't say the same for everyone else. Pretty sure it happens. In fact I know it happens. I've read comics and seen TV shows where I've seen the creative team talk about how much they love said character and yet I've seen something tragic happen to that character, even going as far to kill off that character to serve the purpose of the story. Sometimes it's hard for them to do it, but they do it.

I don't doubt it at all. You do realize an issue is done several months in advance before releasing it to the public, so they could have been had her Sega design in the works after getting weaponized in the book. Did you read what Flynn said on his DA Channel? He said her being deroboticized after this happened to her was the way the book was going to go to end the story. So if that is true, then I'm almost certain they were thinking up designs for her as early as late 2011 before releasing this one.

What, do you really believe the bosses at Archie Sonic just told the artist a week before the con in NY, "Oh, by the way, Sally's going to get a new design after being deroboticized. Start drawing rough sketches so Flynn can show them to the fans, will ya?"

C'mon, you know better than that.

Boy, don't tell me how the comic book industry is run, I know how it's run.

Look, this arc started effectively back in issue 225. We're looking the best part of 16 months ago now, nearly two years and Mecha Sally didn't pop up till #230. So 225 was released around July 2011 and because comics and made several months in advance, and take into account that Flynn plans out his work even earlier because he has to pitch ideas to them to get approval before he starts work, he was probably planning this arc at least around late 2010. So let's say that's two years.

Sally isn't getting de-roboticized until sometime early-mid 2013. What was the most important thing they had to do with this arc at the beginning? Design Mecha Sally. When the details of Mecha Sally were finally revealed at New York Comic Con 2011 (during October of that year), the design was finialised, the artwork they showed of her was finished because they showed off the cover to #231 and several other pieces. Why? because the issue was due out only a couple of months later.

Fast forward to this years New York Comic Con and they show us the redesign of Sally which is clearly a rough design, not finialised (because it's been stated) and no other pieces of her, because the de-roboticization is still some time off, we got another 5 months at the least until it's done and that's if it happens before the Mega Man crossover. It's pretty much a given they showed this off to confirm that yes, she'll be back to normal soon. And they probably showed off this rough concept of the design to gauge interest in it, to see the reaction.

Working on comics isn't a piss easy thing, there's deadlines all over the place and if shit has to be changed it's gotta be done quickly. I really can't see them having doodled up the new Sally design at the beginning of this arc and held onto it for the best part of say 16 months, just sticking it in a draw ready to pull it out. Not saying they did it a week before NYCC, but as time was drawing closer to actually finishing the arc in question, the creative team have asked the artists to draw up some redesigns and they picked one out of the lot. NYCC was then coming up and they took it to see how well it'd go over. Because if they had planned that design out from the very beginning, you'd think they'd of shown off something better then a quick concept design.

But fine, if I end up being wrong about this, I'll personally admit it just to show you I'm not some raging ranter, as I know you obviously think of me constantly. I guess you don't like it when you see people like me strongly expressing our opinion on here.

Nope, it's just when people like you constantly believe you know what's going to happen when you don't know anything at all, you just assume. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but it seems to me that he wanna state things as fact because you seem to know how people like Flynn and companies like Archie and Sega view a particular character.

Sally getting a new look is not my beef with this whole controversy. It's the fact they jerked around with the emotions of her fans so flippantly for fun and game first. Believe it or not, I'm actually for Sally getting a new look because her vest and boots is sadly too controversial for those who want to accuse her of being a slut and a tramp because she doesn't cover up her breasts and other unmentionables. But like I said, this was just so insulting the way they made it happen. All they had to do was show Sally choosing to get a new outfit in a side story and that would have ended the nakedness issue, and then they could've had an epic story with her wearing it for the first time.

So simple, but yet Archie Sonic I guess wanted to mess around with the fanbase for awhile before doing that. Such a professional group if you ask me.

And again, you assume it's the "nakedness controversy" with what backing? Okay, some fans hate Sally because she's Sonic's girlfriend. They just want Amy to be with him and one of the stupid reasons they give for hating her is because she dresses in boots and a vest and nothing else. If those people are shallow enough to hate a character for how they look, then they need to take a good long look at themselves.

It probably has nothing to do with messing with the fanbase at all really. I honestly doubt Flynn did this just to screw with the SatAM fans, but you just assume that because you are a Sally fan. Flynn did what he did to create buzz about the comic. During the Ken Penders/Karl Bollers years, was there ever any moments during that run where people were actually talking about the comic and caring about what happened in it, especially during the latter half of the run? Hell no! There's one exception that I can think of and that was Endgame for obvious reasons, but it had people talking. The latter half of the Penders/Bollers run was just so shitty, boring ass love triangles and drama issues. There was nothing exciting happening that made people give a crap. It was so bad I might as well of used the comic to wipe my ass with.

Flynn has been making people care what happens in the comic and one way to do that is to have something tragic happen, usually to a fan favourite character. Yeah, it's shitty when it happens to a character you like, but it gets people talking, it gets people caring what happens and this arc has been pulling that off, just like Endgame but there's two differences between this whole arc and the old Endgame one.

1. When Endgame started, it's intent was to kill of Sally for good because with King Acorn back, Penders saw Sally as pointless. It was because of fan backlash and possibly because Sega wanted to use her (as has been stated, but did they really?) that the forth issue had to quickly re-edited a little bit poorly because there was an error in the next issue dealing with a traitor (which was in fact meant to be Sally as originally she was to be replaced with a robot double).

2. So this arc for all intended purposes was never going to kill off Sally. Yes, at the end of 225, Sally was shot to death, but that was to create an impact in the fandom. Did it work? Yes it did. The Genesis arc that was thrown in was distracting because it basically had nothing to really do with the story and just dicked around for 4 months so at the beginning of #230 we got a Superman spins the world around to make time go back so Sonic can save Sally. I think if the Genesis story wasn't gonna happen, then Sally wouldn't of been shot. But anyways, yeah Sally get's roboticized, but it's not death and it's pretty much a given she'd be changed back, the only question being when. This arc's intent was to create buzz and talk among the fandom and it worked. One thing Flynn has proven he can do is create buzz in the fandom. The destruction of Knothole, the Iron-Nicole thing and now this is probably the biggest one to date.

It's a given that anyone who works in the media industry, be it TV, movies, comics and anything else, they want their work to be talked about by the fans and anyone else. And this arc has generated some buzz for sure. Hell, I go to a site that doesn't really report Sonic stuff, but when this thing happened they did report it. And like a said, a solid way to generate talk is for something to happen to a fan favourite character. Most of the big shots like Marvel and DC will kill off one of their characters, only to bring them back 6 months later. Happens all the time. I gotta give Flynn credit for this because he managed to do something on the same scale without actually killing Sally off and the arc has been running longer then usual and people are still going on about it. And usually when a character comes back they undergo some visual change too.

What I'm trying to say is, keep an open mind on this whole thing till the end of it, don't just assume that you know what is gonna happen. When shit unfolds and it's as you predicted, then please, get pissy as much as you want.

[LaserX5]

Yeah,it was the choice of the creative team behind the comic at the time. But let's not forget that continuity back then was sloppy as shit.

It still is as far I'm concerned. In fact, I think it's even worse today with Flynn as head writer.

Really? I thought it was to, you know, actually make her look like a robot rather then a metal casing version of herself. Yeah without a doubt the Mecha look has that Metal Sonic design to it, but when you look back at the old roboticized forms, they tended to look like the character was wearing a suit of armor of themselves. Now they actually resemble, you know, a robot version of themselves.

That was just an added bonus. You know, to make the whole graphic modification all the more shocking.

But in all honestly, what really dumbfounded me to no end about the whole weaponization was how lame Mecha Sally was as a villain. She appeared to be modified for nothing. But after thinking it over long and hard, I'm thoroughly convinced the weaponization was done for merely changing her look after she's deroboticized.

Otherwise, why even have those blades in her arms if she's not even going to constantly try to kill Team Fighters with them? Sure, she can't because of Sega's asinine mandates. But you know... give the illusion it could happen. I don't see why Sega would care so much about that.

Then again, they'd probably get all bent out of shape if Amy's red dress had a small cut on it.

And I really doubt Sega of Japan even care about this comic really. It's an American licensed project. Takara (Japanese company) don't over see every single western Transformers project that Hasbro works on for it's market, just like Hasbro don't over see every Transformers project Takara works on for it's market.

If they really don't care about the comic, then they wouldn't tell Archie Comics what they can and cannot do. And they surely wouldn't have demanded that they advertise two mediocre racing games.

Even Ian Flynn has acknowledged they have mandates about things he cannot touch. If that's not caring about it, I don't know what is.

But you don't know that for sure, you are just assuming. If it does happen, then it's sloppy as hell because as I've stated, there's not much in terms of the two designs looking anything alike. And I'll admit if it happens, Flynn and the artists need a punch in the face.

Ok, fine. Like I said, I don't know for sure. But as I mentioned in my last post. Archie Sonic took the lazy way when showing Bunnie fully deroboticized look, having her in a covered in a full pink leotard from the waist down when there was nothing to suggest that part of her was ever covered up down there, especially after she got those special silver cybernetics by Nate Morgan.

So since they did it for Bunnie, why would they not here? I just can't see this comic actually caring enough to put that much detail into Sally's new look when they can show it happening magically after the Deus Ex Machina deroboticization. It'll be less work for them.

Can't exactly say it was pointless shockvalue because it took people by surprise and got then actually caring about what was happening in the comic. Plus she'd only be a bland SegaSonic female if she has no character to her at all, which we already know she has. And will she really be a SegaSonic character? Because she started life out in the cartoon and the comic and if this new design somehow manages to get her into the games, she'll still be seen as a comic/cartoon character by most people. She will never be considered a SegaSonic character at all. There's other characters in the comic that are only in the comic and have the SegaSonic look, but none of them are classed as SegaSonic and Sally will be no different.

Except you haven't factored in the part of Sally wearing Segafied gloves and rings. That proves the comic is trying to make her become one of the Sega female cast. Why give her that if it isn't to make her look like one of the game cast characters?

And if it's a case of Sega and Archie hating the character, they would of gotten rid of her instead of keeping her around. I honestly doubt they'd care about a bunch of late 20-30 nobody's still reading a comic book aimed at children getting angry and boycotting them. We only make up a small fraction of the readership.

Yea, I'm very aware about the fact they don't care about the old fans anymore. Disgusting if you ask me, but there's nothing anyone can do about it. And the reason they don't get rid of Sally is because her fans would drop the book if they did. So of course, they'll keep her around just for the sake of sales.

And I honestly doubt it was over the "nakedness controversy" as you put it because if it was, it took them nearly 20 years to sort that out, if it was a big deal, they'd of done it years ago. It's like when BW1979 constantly blames the soccer moms, you're just assuming it again and Flynn has even said that it has nothing to do with her being naked, it's because the design is old, needs refreshing. Not saying what he said is true, but it makes more sense then blaming the soccer moms with not proof to back it up.

You need to keep in mind it was those same soccer Moms who made such a huge stink about a pony character who was a little slow and mentally handicapped. They obviously made a loud enough of a statement because why else would Hasbro cave in if it was only a handful of them?

Plus, I think the comic was also sick of Sally's haters railing, "Oh, she's a slut because she only wears a vest and boots. Kill her!"

So, this way, it's a twofer. She looks like a SegaSonic character and her body is covered up appropriately.

No, see that's the thing, you wouldn't subject a character to that kind of thing if you are fond of them. But you can't say the same for everyone else. Pretty sure it happens. In fact I know it happens. I've read comics and seen TV shows where I've seen the creative team talk about how much they love said character and yet I've seen something tragic happen to that character, even going as far to kill off that character to serve the purpose of the story. Sometimes it's hard for them to do it, but they do it.

Personally, I cannot understand how anyone can say, "Oh, I really like such and such character." and then do some really horrible stuff to them. It's one thing to test their mettle under serious adversity, maybe even subject their emotional and physical state to serious pain. Even I've written stuff like that because who doesn't want to see a character you like fight through hardship and come out victorious after a long and grueling battle?

But this? How is showing a character getting blasted to with a turret for a mere publicity stunt proof you like them? That's what you do to universally hated characters like Tommy Turtle and Chris Thorndyke. That whole scene was so pointless, especially considering it was going to be reversed so anti-climatically.

Boy, don't tell me how the comic book industry is run, I know how it's run.

And you know this how?

Look, this arc started effectively back in issue 225. We're looking the best part of 16 months ago now, nearly two years and Mecha Sally didn't pop up till #230. So 225 was released around July 2011 and because comics and made several months in advance, and take into account that Flynn plans out his work even earlier because he has to pitch ideas to them to get approval before he starts work, he was probably planning this arc at least around late 2010. So let's say that's two years.

Sally isn't getting de-roboticized until sometime early-mid 2013. What was the most important thing they had to do with this arc at the beginning? Design Mecha Sally. When the details of Mecha Sally were finally revealed at New York Comic Con 2011 (during October of that year), the design was finalized, the artwork they showed of her was finished because they showed off the cover to #231 and several other pieces. Why? because the issue was due out only a couple of months later.

Fast forward to this years New York Comic Con and they show us the redesign of Sally which is clearly a rough design, not finalized (because it's been stated) and no other pieces of her, because the de-roboticization is still some time off, we got another 5 months at the least until it's done and that's if it happens before the Mega Man crossover. It's pretty much a given they showed this off to confirm that yes, she'll be back to normal soon. And they probably showed off this rough concept of the design to gauge interest in it, to see the reaction.

Working on comics isn't a piss easy thing, there's deadlines all over the place and if shit has to be changed it's gotta be done quickly. I really can't see them having doodled up the new Sally design at the beginning of this arc and held onto it for the best part of say 16 months, just sticking it in a draw ready to pull it out. Not saying they did it a week before NYCC, but as time was drawing closer to actually finishing the arc in question, the creative team have asked the artists to draw up some redesigns and they picked one out of the lot. NYCC was then coming up and they took it to see how well it'd go over. Because if they had planned that design out from the very beginning, you'd think they'd of shown off something better then a quick concept design.

You make alot of good points here. I won't deny that. Still, if what Flynn said is true, that her being deroboticized was going to be the final outcome, then I can see them thinking up new designs at least 3 months in advance before the Con because they wanted to show the fans SOMETHING about Sally's new look.

And yes, there are alot of deadlines. Still, I just can't see them putting this off until the very last week before the announcement, especially when you factor this was going to be Sally's new look for a very long time, if not permanently. They'd want to present as good of a new look as possible to impress those in the crowd.

But yes, this one was a rough draft. I won't argue with that. Still, I seriously doubt they just spliced something together. There was probably at least a half a dozen concepts they tried before going with this one.

Nope, it's just when people like you constantly believe you know what's going to happen when you don't know anything at all, you just assume. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but it seems to me that he wanna state things as fact because you seem to know how people like Flynn and companies like Archie and Sega view a particular character.

I never stated anything as an absolute fact. I even wrote that I admit there's a chance it might not happen this way. But after factoring in all the variables, I really cannot see it being anything else, especially seeing the changed hair style and Segafied gloves and rings.

Why would Sally choose to wear those things?

What I'm trying to say is, keep an open mind on this whole thing till the end of it, don't just assume that you know what is gonna happen. When shit unfolds and it's as you predicted, then please, get pissy as much as you want.

Ok fine, I'll try to do that.

And yes, believe me, if it does happen EXACTLY the way I believe it will, I won't hesitant at all to express my feelings about it then.

[PuffinGrandeur]

Speculation here is always a fairly decent source of crazypants.

[Prime]

But in all honestly, what really dumbfounded me to no end about the whole weaponization was how lame Mecha Sally was as a villain. She appeared to be modified for nothing. But after thinking it over long and hard, I'm thoroughly convinced the weaponization was done for merely changing her look after she's deroboticized.

Oh without a doubt the whole Mecha Sally thing hasn't been living up to the hype. They were building her up as the biggest threat Mobius has ever seen, but she's done fuck all. But storywise the weaponizing was to give her an additional edge against the heroes.

If they really don't care about the comic, then they wouldn't tell Archie Comics what they can and cannot do. And they surely wouldn't have demanded that they advertise two mediocre racing games.

Even Ian Flynn has acknowledged they have mandates about things he cannot touch. If that's not caring about it, I don't know what is.

No see, there's a big difference between Sega of Japan and Sega of America. It's Sega of America who make the mandates for Archie comics to follow, since it's an American license project.

Except you haven't factored in the part of Sally wearing Segafied gloves and rings. That proves the comic is trying to make her become one of the Sega female cast. Why give her that if it isn't to make her look like one of the game cast characters?

Looking like a SegaSonic character isn't the same as being a SegaSonic character.

Yea, I'm very aware about the fact they don't care about the old fans anymore. Disgusting if you ask me, but there's nothing anyone can do about it. And the reason they don't get rid of Sally is because her fans would drop the book if they did. So of course, they'll keep her around just for the sake of sales.

And I doubt that if every old school fan dropped the book if that happened (because I doubt they all would) it wouldn't make too much of an impact in sales. I doubt every single person who read a Sonic comic back in the 90s is still reading it.

You need to keep in mind it was those same soccer Moms who made such a huge stink about a pony character who was a little slow and mentally handicapped. They obviously made a loud enough of a statement because why else would Hasbro cave in if it was only a handful of them?

Exact same soccer moms? Or just random parents who consider a name like Derpy offensive after having a quick look on the internet to see the meaning of the word without actually researching it properly? Plus as far as I've heard, Hasbro are still keeping that name and the edited version of that episode was done by Apple. I heard the unaltered version ended up on DVD. If Hasbro caved in, they wouldn't of released it's original form on DVD.

Again, if it was them, took them 20 years to do it. Logically doesn't make sense.

Personally, I cannot understand how anyone can say, "Oh, I really like such and such character." and then do some really horrible stuff to them. It's one thing to test their mettle under serious adversity, maybe even subject their emotional and physical state to serious pain. Even I've written stuff like that because who doesn't want to see a character you like fight through hardship and come out victorious after a long and grueling battle?

Take Ellen Ripley from the Alien franchise. A strong, independent female lead who is well liked (much like Sally) who goes through the a couple of encounters with the most deadly creature ever known. Everyone she's ever known has died and she is can't escape these monsters. Eventually she discovers she has one inside her and has to sacrifice herself to save the entire universe from this Alien menace (again, kinda like Sally sacrificing herself to stop the World Roboticizer). She kills herself to stop the company she works for getting the Alien to use it as a Bio-Weapon. How does she die? She throws herself into a huge furnace and the Alien bursts through her chest.

The writers/producers of the Alien franchise liked her character but decided to kill her off in the ultimate sacrifice. Ripley's character never really had a happy ending at all in any of the movies because like I said, everyone she knows dies and she suffers nightmares from this thing, and at the end of it all, she can't escape her destiny. They didn't do this because they hated her character, but it was in her character to do it.

But this? How is showing a character getting blasted to with a turret for a mere publicity stunt proof you like them? That's what you do to universally hated characters like Tommy Turtle and Chris Thorndyke. That whole scene was so pointless, especially considering it was going to be reversed so anti-climatically.

And yet again, we didn't actually see her get blasted, nor did we see her body. Seeing less equals more sometimes. Yeah it was pointless, but we didn't see it.

And you know this how?

Well take into the consideration I am close friends with a guy who owned his own comic store and he would order exclusive variant covers for several of the top selling comics he store sold, mostly from IDW. He would tell me the process of having to go through the trouble of getting the go ahead from IDW and then from Hasbro for the covers, plus if IDW would have time in their schedule to actually get one of their regulars to do a cover. He wanted a cover for a Transformer comic to feature the character of Galvatron but Hasbro flat out refused to let him use the character. My friend got his wish however because when he told the artist, Casey Coller what he was planning, Casey went ahead a drew the cover how my friend originally invisioned it and sold it as an exclusive print at the same convention where he sold the comic. Plus my buddy had links to an independent comic label a friend of his owns and he works for him now. And I've had the fortune of talking to Casey Coller about his comic book carrer and how things work in there.

That enough for you?

You make alot of good points here. I won't deny that. Still, if what Flynn said is true, that her being deroboticized was going to be the final outcome, then I can see them thinking up new designs at least 3 months in advance before the Con because they wanted to show the fans SOMETHING about Sally's new look.

Exactly this. It would make no sense at all for them to have done this design at the very beginning and then held on to it.

I never stated anything as an absolute fact. I even wrote that I admit there's a chance it might not happen this way. But after factoring in all the variables, I really cannot see it being anything else, especially seeing the changed hair style and Segafied gloves and rings.

Why would Sally choose to wear those things?

Sally's hair style has changed numerous times through out the history of the comic, this change should be no different from the previous ones.

And as for the gloves, why does any character wear anything that they do? C'mon, if Sally was to wear clothes what do you think she'd wear? Do you know? Of course you don't, I don't, known of us do. The only ones who do know would be the ones writing the character, which yeeeeah, it's Flynn. Maybe the artists have a say in it too, adding in a few things of their own and the editors and such, but hell. for all we'd know, Sally might as well wear a banana costume.

I'll admit it and I've said it before, the gloves seem out of place. But then again that is the only Sega like thing about her look really.

[LaserX5]

Oh without a doubt the whole Mecha Sally thing hasn't been living up to the hype. They were building her up as the biggest threat Mobius has ever seen, but she's done fuck all. But storywise the weaponizing was to give her an additional edge against the heroes.

And yet the only edge it's given is trying to figure out how she'll be restored to normal. Giving her blades and rocket boosters hasn't done crap against Team Fighters, or should I say, *cough cough Team SegaSonic cough*

No see, there's a big difference between Sega of Japan and Sega of America. It's Sega of America who make the mandates for Archie comics to follow, since it's an American license project.

Sega of Japan runs Sega of America last time I checked. They tell them how Sonic is run.

Looking like a SegaSonic character isn't the same as being a SegaSonic character.

No, but that's what Archie Sonic and Sega possibly are trying to do, even if it totally stupid on their part because Sally never will be a Sonic game character. Why else give her Sega rings and gloves then?

And I doubt that if every old school fan dropped the book if that happened (because I doubt they all would) it wouldn't make too much of an impact in sales. I doubt every single person who read a Sonic comic back in the 90's is still reading it.

Ok, good point. But still, there are those who do, even if they are a small minority.

Exact same soccer moms? Or just random parents who consider a name like Derpy offensive after having a quick look on the Internet to see the meaning of the word without actually researching it properly? Plus as far as I've heard, Hasbro are still keeping that name and the edited version of that episode was done by Apple. I heard the unaltered version ended up on DVD. If Hasbro caved in, they wouldn't of released it's original form on DVD.

Really?

Well, if that is true, why release a censored version at all if they weren't planning to get rid of the Derpy version? Seems entirely pointless if you ask me.

Take Ellen Ripley from the Alien franchise. A strong, independent female lead who is well liked (much like Sally) who goes through the a couple of encounters with the most deadly creature ever known. Everyone she's ever known has died and she is can't escape these monsters. Eventually she discovers she has one inside her and has to sacrifice herself to save the entire universe from this Alien menace (again, kinda like Sally sacrificing herself to stop the World Roboticizer). She kills herself to stop the company she works for getting the Alien to use it as a Bio-Weapon. How does she die? She throws herself into a huge furnace and the Alien bursts through her chest.

The writers/producers of the Alien franchise liked her character but decided to kill her off in the ultimate sacrifice. Ripley's character never really had a happy ending at all in any of the movies because like I said, everyone she knows dies and she suffers nightmares from this thing, and at the end of it all, she can't escape her destiny. They didn't do this because they hated her character, but it was in her character to do it.

I see...

Well, the truth is, I'm not against a character nobly sacrificing themselves when it's for the sake of their friends when there's no other way to save them from a chaotic fate. But that's the whole beef I have with this whole story. There were other options, but Archie Sonic was too lazy to even explore them. Instead, they wanted Sally to press the button just so Tails and Amy would get a ton of spotlight while trying to restore her. It was so obvious to me the moment 236 was released.

Every other main hero of the Freedom Fighters outside of Rotor was crippled or left just so they could look immortal while trying to defeat Eggman and restore order.

In all honesty, I actually wish Archie Sonic would just have Sally sacrificing her life in the most noble of ways for the sake of Mobius and be done with it already. I know that sounds hard to believe since I am a big fan of hers, but I know she's always going to be mistreated and poorly portrayed because they just do not like her. I could care less about their PC statements about saying they aren't intending to disrespect the character. Any comic that roboticizes a character twice, tries to kill them off 3 times and even causes them to go berserk emotionally, that's not called fondness in my book. That's called hate, disregard or both.

At least with Ripley, they didn't try to kill her off 3 times. And in all honesty, the 4th Aliens' movie should be considered non canon since it was utter crap after seeing a review about it.

And yet again, we didn't actually see her get blasted, nor did we see her body. Seeing less equals more sometimes. Yeah it was pointless, but we didn't see it.

No, we didn't. But Flynn said in an email to Sonic fan, she blasted to bits. He wasn't the least bit hesitant to tell us that. That really makes me question his so called liking of Sally.

Well take into the consideration I am close friends with a guy who owned his own comic store and he would order exclusive variant covers for several of the top selling comics he store sold, mostly from IDW. He would tell me the process of having to go through the trouble of getting the go ahead from IDW and then from Hasbro for the covers, plus if IDW would have time in their schedule to actually get one of their regulars to do a cover. He wanted a cover for a Transformer comic to feature the character of Galvatron but Hasbro flat out refused to let him use the character. My friend got his wish however because when he told the artist, Casey Coller what he was planning, Casey went ahead a drew the cover how my friend originally envisioned it and sold it as an exclusive print at the same convention where he sold the comic. Plus my buddy had links to an independent comic label a friend of his owns and he works for him now. And I've had the fortune of talking to Casey Coller about his comic book career and how things work in there.

That enough for you?

Yea, I guess that answers my question.

Sally's hair style has changed numerous times through out the history of the comic, this change should be no different from the previous ones.

And as for the gloves, why does any character wear anything that they do? C'mon, if Sally was to wear clothes what do you think she'd wear? Do you know? Of course you don't, I don't, known of us do. The only ones who do know would be the ones writing the character, which yeeeeah, it's Flynn. Maybe the artists have a say in it too, adding in a few things of their own and the editors and such, but hell. for all we'd know, Sally might as well wear a banana costume.

I'll admit it and I've said it before, the gloves seem out of place. But then again that is the only Sega like thing about her look really.

I have no problems with Sally's hairstyle changing. I only brought up that point to show I believe that will be her hairstyle, or whatever hairstyle they decide for the final design when she's finally deroboticized. And also, don't forget about the blue rings around her wrists like Amy Rose has. That clearly was intentional to make her look like another SegaSonic female. There's no other logical reason for that being apart of her new design.

[Uncle Ben]

im staying out of this... im getting lost

[RedAuthar]

Play nice.

[Prime]

Sega of Japan runs Sega of America last time I checked. They tell them how Sonic is run.

And like I've said before, just because SoJ is the top boss and SoA isn't, does not mean that SoJ over see every single little thing that happens in the Sonic franchise. If you open up a Sonic comic and look at the part where they give Special Thanks to the Sega License crew, you don't see a single Japanese name there at all. Why? Because it's the licensing department of SoA who deal with this book and approve and disapprove of the content of the book.

You think Disney sit there and go through every single little thing the smaller companies they own go through on a daily basis? Since buying out Marvel, Disney have effectively let Marvel carry on doing their own thing and they haven't thrown any mandates on them at all.

It's effectively the same thing with SoA and SoJ. SoJ may be in charge, but they don't over see every single thing SoA do, or SoE do, or any of the other Sega brances. I went to Summer of Sonic this year and know someone who has attended every year since and it's always Sega of Europe who give the convention runners the problems because it's happening in europe. SoJ isn't coming down on them hard saying "You tell those convention people they can't have this and they can't have that person!" They got their own shit to worry about. SoJ will only mandate how things are in the games, I really doubt they will be looking in every single month on a spin off comic book in another country.

Seriously, if it was SoJ and they were trying to make it more like the games like you say, surely SoJ would of ordered anything not game related to be discarded right away. Why would SoJ get involved in a comic book that's not even being sold over there? Surely they got offically licensed manga and etc to deal with.

Play nice.

What? We're not playing nice enough? Do you want me to get out the tea party set while I'm at it?

[RedAuthar]

Play nice.

What? We're not playing nice enough? Do you want me to get out the tea party set while I'm at it?

Good idea. You do that.

[bwrosas]

Oh without a doubt the whole Mecha Sally thing hasn't been living up to the hype. They were building her up as the biggest threat Mobius has ever seen, but she's done fuck all. But storywise the weaponizing was to give her an additional edge against the heroes.

And yet the only edge it's given is trying to figure out how she'll be restored to normal. Giving her blades and rocket boosters hasn't done crap against Team Fighters, or should I say, *cough cough Team SegaSonic cough*

No see, there's a big difference between Sega of Japan and Sega of America. It's Sega of America who make the mandates for Archie comics to follow, since it's an American license project.

Sega of Japan runs Sega of America last time I checked. They tell them how Sonic is run.

Looking like a SegaSonic character isn't the same as being a SegaSonic character.

No, but that's what Archie Sonic and Sega possibly are trying to do, even if it totally stupid on their part because Sally never will be a Sonic game character. Why else give her Sega rings and gloves then?

And I doubt that if every old school fan dropped the book if that happened (because I doubt they all would) it wouldn't make too much of an impact in sales. I doubt every single person who read a Sonic comic back in the 90's is still reading it.

Ok, good point. But still, there are those who do, even if they are a small minority.

Exact same soccer moms? Or just random parents who consider a name like Derpy offensive after having a quick look on the Internet to see the meaning of the word without actually researching it properly? Plus as far as I've heard, Hasbro are still keeping that name and the edited version of that episode was done by Apple. I heard the unaltered version ended up on DVD. If Hasbro caved in, they wouldn't of released it's original form on DVD.

Really?

Well, if that is true, why release a censored version at all if they weren't planning to get rid of the Derpy version? Seems entirely pointless if you ask me.

Take Ellen Ripley from the Alien franchise. A strong, independent female lead who is well liked (much like Sally) who goes through the a couple of encounters with the most deadly creature ever known. Everyone she's ever known has died and she is can't escape these monsters. Eventually she discovers she has one inside her and has to sacrifice herself to save the entire universe from this Alien menace (again, kinda like Sally sacrificing herself to stop the World Roboticizer). She kills herself to stop the company she works for getting the Alien to use it as a Bio-Weapon. How does she die? She throws herself into a huge furnace and the Alien bursts through her chest.

The writers/producers of the Alien franchise liked her character but decided to kill her off in the ultimate sacrifice. Ripley's character never really had a happy ending at all in any of the movies because like I said, everyone she knows dies and she suffers nightmares from this thing, and at the end of it all, she can't escape her destiny. They didn't do this because they hated her character, but it was in her character to do it.

I see...

Well, the truth is, I'm not against a character nobly sacrificing themselves when it's for the sake of their friends when there's no other way to save them from a chaotic fate. But that's the whole beef I have with this whole story. There were other options, but Archie Sonic was too lazy to even explore them. Instead, they wanted Sally to press the button just so Tails and Amy would get a ton of spotlight while trying to restore her. It was so obvious to me the moment 236 was released.

Every other main hero of the Freedom Fighters outside of Rotor was crippled or left just so they could look immortal while trying to defeat Eggman and restore order.

In all honesty, I actually wish Archie Sonic would just have Sally sacrificing her life in the most noble of ways for the sake of Mobius and be done with it already. I know that sounds hard to believe since I am a big fan of hers, but I know she's always going to be mistreated and poorly portrayed because they just do not like her. I could care less about their PC statements about saying they aren't intending to disrespect the character. Any comic that roboticizes a character twice, tries to kill them off 3 times and even causes them to go berserk emotionally, that's not called fondness in my book. That's called hate, disregard or both.

At least with Ripley, they didn't try to kill her off 3 times. And in all honesty, the 4th Aliens' movie should be considered non canon since it was utter crap after seeing a review about it.

And yet again, we didn't actually see her get blasted, nor did we see her body. Seeing less equals more sometimes. Yeah it was pointless, but we didn't see it.

No, we didn't. But Flynn said in an email to Sonic fan, she blasted to bits. He wasn't the least bit hesitant to tell us that. That really makes me question his so called liking of Sally.

Well take into the consideration I am close friends with a guy who owned his own comic store and he would order exclusive variant covers for several of the top selling comics he store sold, mostly from IDW. He would tell me the process of having to go through the trouble of getting the go ahead from IDW and then from Hasbro for the covers, plus if IDW would have time in their schedule to actually get one of their regulars to do a cover. He wanted a cover for a Transformer comic to feature the character of Galvatron but Hasbro flat out refused to let him use the character. My friend got his wish however because when he told the artist, Casey Coller what he was planning, Casey went ahead a drew the cover how my friend originally envisioned it and sold it as an exclusive print at the same convention where he sold the comic. Plus my buddy had links to an independent comic label a friend of his owns and he works for him now. And I've had the fortune of talking to Casey Coller about his comic book career and how things work in there.

That enough for you?

Yea, I guess that answers my question.

Sally's hair style has changed numerous times through out the history of the comic, this change should be no different from the previous ones.

And as for the gloves, why does any character wear anything that they do? C'mon, if Sally was to wear clothes what do you think she'd wear? Do you know? Of course you don't, I don't, known of us do. The only ones who do know would be the ones writing the character, which yeeeeah, it's Flynn. Maybe the artists have a say in it too, adding in a few things of their own and the editors and such, but hell. for all we'd know, Sally might as well wear a banana costume.

I'll admit it and I've said it before, the gloves seem out of place. But then again that is the only Sega like thing about her look really.

I have no problems with Sally's hairstyle changing. I only brought up that point to show I believe that will be her hairstyle, or whatever hairstyle they decide for the final design when she's finally deroboticized. And also, don't forget about the blue rings around her wrists like Amy Rose has. That clearly was intentional to make her look like another SegaSonic female. There's no other logical reason for that being apart of her new design.

You both make great points. However, we will never know the real answer as to why the design change was made or who made the call for it.

Laser, you can say Sega made the call, but do you really know that to be true?

Same for you Prime, you say otherwise, but do you know that to be true?

One thing I will say, is the fact that you both Agee that one of the main reasons for this arc hasn't lived to it's hype or reasoning for happening.

But you two must remember, should the restoration occur within the next 5 months or so or even after or within the crossover itself, we have no idea how it happen or what she will look like (new outfit or not) when it happens.

So let's just wait it out.

[LaserX5]

And like I've said before, just because SoJ is the top boss and SoA isn't, does not mean that SoJ over see every single little thing that happens in the Sonic franchise. If you open up a Sonic comic and look at the part where they give Special Thanks to the Sega License crew, you don't see a single Japanese name there at all. Why? Because it's the licensing department of SoA who deal with this book and approve and disapprove of the content of the book.

You think Disney sit there and go through every single little thing the smaller companies they own go through on a daily basis? Since buying out Marvel, Disney have effectively let Marvel carry on doing their own thing and they haven't thrown any mandates on them at all.

It's effectively the same thing with SoA and SoJ. SoJ may be in charge, but they don't over see every single thing SoA do, or SoE do, or any of the other Sega branches. I went to Summer of Sonic this year and know someone who has attended every year since and it's always Sega of Europe who give the convention runners the problems because it's happening in Europe. SoJ isn't coming down on them hard saying "You tell those convention people they can't have this and they can't have that person!" They got their own shit to worry about. SoJ will only mandate how things are in the games, I really doubt they will be looking in every single month on a spin off comic book in another country.

Seriously, if it was SoJ and they were trying to make it more like the games like you say, surely SoJ would of ordered anything not game related to be discarded right away. Why would SoJ get involved in a comic book that's not even being sold over there? Surely they got officially licensed manga and etc to deal with.

Ok, I'll admit you make a pretty good argument here. If the comic's not being sold in Japan, then they probably don't care about it that much, if at all.

Still, if what you say is true, why would Sega of America have such ridicoulous mandates that favors and massively protects SOJ's main cast of and not their very own as well? That doesn't make any sense. The Satam and Archie Sonic cast are technically the property of Sega of America since that's where they came from. So if SOJ is letting them call the shots here, wouldn't SOA want to have this cast shine the most since this book is basically their only place of continuity?

Not to mention the fact SOJ's cast is getting ridicoulous favor now makes me wonder who really is calling the shots about what goes on in this comic book. Things are just not adding up.

Play nice.

Trust me, I am not trying to start any online fights on here. Just a friendly debate.

You both make great points. However, we will never know the real answer as to why the design change was made or who made the call for it.

Laser, you can say Sega made the call, but do you really know that to be true?

Same for you Prime, you say otherwise, but do you know that to be true?

One thing I will say, is the fact that you both Agree that one of the main reasons for this arc hasn't lived to it's hype or reasoning for happening.

But you two must remember, should the restoration occur within the next 5 months or so or even after or within the crossover itself, we have no idea how it happen or what she will look like (new outfit or not) when it happens.

So let's just wait it out. [font="""]

[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][font="""]As I've said before, bwrosas, I admit I don't know how it'll all play out. I'm just merely speculating on it for now. Maybe it'll happen the way I think it will or maybe it will be something entirely different like Prime suggests.[/font][/font]

We'll find out soon enough.

[bwrosas]

And like I've said before, just because SoJ is the top boss and SoA isn't, does not mean that SoJ over see every single little thing that happens in the Sonic franchise. If you open up a Sonic comic and look at the part where they give Special Thanks to the Sega License crew, you don't see a single Japanese name there at all. Why? Because it's the licensing department of SoA who deal with this book and approve and disapprove of the content of the book.

You think Disney sit there and go through every single little thing the smaller companies they own go through on a daily basis? Since buying out Marvel, Disney have effectively let Marvel carry on doing their own thing and they haven't thrown any mandates on them at all.

It's effectively the same thing with SoA and SoJ. SoJ may be in charge, but they don't over see every single thing SoA do, or SoE do, or any of the other Sega branches. I went to Summer of Sonic this year and know someone who has attended every year since and it's always Sega of Europe who give the convention runners the problems because it's happening in Europe. SoJ isn't coming down on them hard saying "You tell those convention people they can't have this and they can't have that person!" They got their own shit to worry about. SoJ will only mandate how things are in the games, I really doubt they will be looking in every single month on a spin off comic book in another country.

Seriously, if it was SoJ and they were trying to make it more like the games like you say, surely SoJ would of ordered anything not game related to be discarded right away. Why would SoJ get involved in a comic book that's not even being sold over there? Surely they got officially licensed manga and etc to deal with.

Ok, I'll admit you make a pretty good argument here. If the comic's not being sold in Japan, then they probably don't care about it that much, if at all.

Still, if what you say is true, why would Sega of America have such ridicoulous mandates that favors and massively protects SOJ's main cast of and not their very own as well? That doesn't make any sense. The Satam and Archie Sonic cast are technically the property of Sega of America since that's where they came from. So if SOJ is letting them call the shots here, wouldn't SOA want to have this cast shine the most since this book is basically their only place of continuity?

Not to mention the fact SOJ's cast is getting ridicoulous favor now makes me wonder who really is calling the shots about what goes on in this comic book. Things are just not adding up.

IMHO, SOA maybe doing this for, 1. The era and time of now is different and more protective of certain images, then the era and time of the past 20 years. , 2. Perhaps their trying to get more off the ground with the STH and SU Comics than they had before (ex, perhaps a new animated series or even a movie, just saying) and by this, they hope the MAIN GUYS will give an approval, or , 3. Perhaps it's like Ian said, perhaps after 20 years, that it is time to update the SatAM and Some of the Archie Characters designs to be more attractive and apealing to the new generation and readers.

Now I will say (despite not the reading the issues and saving them till it's all said and done), that you and Prime have a point, If he was going to use Mecha Sally in threating way, he would have done that right off start of her weaponzation, but he hasn't. I mean, heck, I would be at least instreated in seeing this : http://aceofspeed94....Queen-323447558 happen to her in the story arc (before her restoration), then possibly see this whole reasoning for her being weaponized/Mechaztaion go to waste.

But hey, like I've said and many have said before me, it ain't over yet and we still have time before she is restored. Wouldn't you and Prime and others agree?

[Prime]

Ok, I'll admit you make a pretty good argument here. If the comic's not being sold in Japan, then they probably don't care about it that much, if at all.

Still, if what you say is true, why would Sega of America have such ridicoulous mandates that favors and massively protects SOJ's main cast of and not their very own as well? That doesn't make any sense. The Satam and Archie Sonic cast are technically the property of Sega of America since that's where they came from. So if SOJ is letting them call the shots here, wouldn't SOA want to have this cast shine the most since this book is basically their only place of continuity?

Not to mention the fact SOJ's cast is getting ridicoulous favor now makes me wonder who really is calling the shots about what goes on in this comic book. Things are just not adding up.

Quiet simple really.

The "SoJ cast" as you so put them are the characters that come from the main property that this comic is licensed from, aka the games, Sega's real source of bread and butter from anything Sonic related. The comic itself is just a licensed spin-off that Sega makes some cash on whenever Archie has to renew the license for it. The video game cast have priority over the comic cast because these are the guys who appear in the real money maker for Sega. But also take into consideration that despite the fact that SoJ/SonicTeam make the games, SoA release them state side and also make the profits from sales of the games state side. And the same or similar idea would apply for them. The comic is there to keep interest in the Sonic franchise alive between video game releases. The video games make the big money and so the cast of said video games are obviously in the "No Getting Killed Off" zone.

It's like if you got a comic book based off a toyline. I'm gonna give an example here and that'll be Marvel's comic run of G.I. JOE: A Real American Hero which ran from 1982-1994. Not bad for a comic for the sole purpose of selling toys. ANYWAY! Everytime Hasbro would have a new action figure or vehicle or playset they were going to release, they would contact Marvel and say "Hey, we got these upcoming toys coming out soon, we want them in the comic." and Marvel would do what they were told. Now most of these action figures would get 2 years on toy shelves at most, after that, bye-bye! Maybe Hasbro would make a new version of the character, most of the time they didn't. Now the writer of the book, Larry Hama did a story where he planned to kill off a bunch of characters but needed to clear it with Hasbro. Hasbro were completely fine with the list they were provided with because all the characters on the list were no longer in toystores. All they asked was for one change because one of the characters was getting a new toy. Other then that, they were good with it. Hell, he brought in a character that was no longer on toystores just to kill him off for this comic. That guy was part of a team that were universally panned by fans and he didn't care much for them either.

Now with the Sonic comic, that's a little different, because this is more kid friendly franchise (as in the video games for the most part) and as Sega would never allow them to kill off any of the video game characters because these guys still appear in the video games. Not in all of them mind, but most of them. We never know what characters are gonna pop up in what game, but it's a safe bet that SonicTeam will try and cram them all in somewhere.

Now as for SoA letting the comic cast shine. You gotta realise that this is just a spin-off thing. When it first started and for the longest time, SoA really didn't give a shit about the comic in question, or qaulity for that matter. If they did, do you think something like AoStH or Underground (despite the fact I like that show) would of been okayed? Hell no! They were just interested in collecting a wad of cash from the people making this project. Now it's true Sega went to DiC and wanted a new Sonic show to bring about some buzz around the time of the Dreamcast launch, but Underground was the result? It's pretty damn obvious that Sega didn't give a crap back then. And they didn't give a crap about the comic. They more then likely had a short list that read:
. Hero characters can never die
. An adaption for every new game coming out.

And maybe a couple of others, but for the most part, they didn't care. They still didn't care when the comic was 10 years old. When it came to new characters being brought into the book, they didn't care, they just scanned them over and approved. If you look at the cartoon/comic exclusive characters during the old days, nearly all of them look nothing like Sega characters, unless it's an obvious reason like the entire friggin Echidna race or Sonia and Manic. Now around the time that Ian Flynn was taking over, SoA were taking more interest in the book, possibly due to a change in management and the fact that the comic now held a world record for longest running comic book based off a video game. Companies can change their opinion on a property they own. As an example right here, Paramount Pictures were ashamed as all hell with the Friday the 13th franchise, but kept making them because they made money. When the money stopped coming in, Paramount had no problems selling the rights off to New Line Cinema back in the 90s, but now Paramount have more respect for the franchise, going as far to release the movies on special edition DVDs and to co-produce the remake with New Line Cinema.

But as for the comic cast and why SoA don't let the spot light shine on them? Because like I said, this is a spin-off comic book and these are spin-off characters, they have nothing to do with the video games this comic is based off of. We should all be thankful that the comic cast are still around and they nobody has demanded they be killed off. Because SoA could order it, or the Archie editors could demand it, or the writer can do it with permission. If Ian were to go to the big boys and say the following to them:

"I wanna kill off the comic characters like Sally, Bunnie, Antoine and so on". Nobody is going to stop him.

"I wanna kill off... Saaaaaay... Blaze!" Sega is gonna put a boot up his ass unless he can convince them as to why it's a good idea, and it better be a good one.

And why? Because the comic characters don't help sell video games. The comic characters are really just there to help tell stories but they don't have anything to do with the video games, which this comic is based off of. It has nothing to do with hating the comic cast at all, it's just down to the fact that these characters are just spin-off characters with no real link to the games at all. They serve a purpose in the comic and nothing more. I mean shit, if it was all down to hating the comic cast or anything spin-off related, do you think that SoA would of given the go ahead for Ian Flynn to do an upcoming issue of Universe which is gonna give an ending to Sonic Underground, the most hated Sonic cartoon of them all? That one might of been a struggle for Flynn to get approval on, but they had to okay it, and they did!

It's actually pretty damn impressive that a comic based off a video game that's been running for nearly 20 years now still has the original team of spin-off characters in it's cast, because when it comes to licensed projects, spin off characters don't tend to last long, nothing is there to protect them. Sally and the others haven't been written out or killed off and for that we should be thankful. But remember one thing, this isn't their comic, they are apart of it, but it's not their comic.

[bwrosas]

Prime, you and I may have differences, but I respect what you're trying to point out here. Thank You.


Now, IMHO, the reason fans like Laser, GBS, among others feel for the comic/SatAM cast the way they do, is because, and I don't think that anyone can deny this, is because of their popluarlity and the fact, (especially today), that they are the only ones that are unlimited in what they can do and have been done with them (whither we like it or not).

Thus, the reason why some dislike how the game cast doesn't get the same treatment, and help the characters (as far as the comic goes) develop, like the comic/SatAM cast has done for their's. And because like you said Prime, Sega would put their boot so far up Ian's ***, unless he gave them a good reason.

Which is why, Sally got the Mecha/Weaponization treatment (which personally I don't like, but hey what you going to do ), instead of someone like Sonic, or Tails or even Amy.

As far as the "Segafied" look that Sally will be getting in 2013, again how it comes about, is anyone's guess. But as you and Laser mentioned before, creative liberities will be one of the main reasons for it.

And as I've said in the pervious post, perhaps they (Archie) may be trying to get more out of the comics from/with SOA, for the possibility of maybe, and that's a BIG MAYBE, new animated series, or heck even a film.

Because honestly you don't think they (Archie/Ian Flynn) know of the fan film that Eddie is/has made do you? Of course they do. And perhaps, IMHO, is one of the possibility reasons for the redesign or redesign's occuring in the next year. Because maybe they feel that they could do/have done better. Just saying, IMHO, it could be one of the possibile reasons, A BIG ONE that is.

Then again, it could just be time to update the looks, as Ian had mentioned. Just how Sally's will happen is totally up in the air and unknown right now, but like you said, if Laser is right in his theory, then Ian and Archie will need a punch in the face. But Prime, if you and Laser read my pervious and most recent posts before this one, you will see one of my theories.