86 replies to this topic

[zelchias]

Got me a few more to add to the fires of hell:

Overlanders...In...Spaaaaace!: One of the things revealed in Sonic 50 was a bit on the origins Robotnik, showing us that he had come from a race of humans known as Overlanders and had betrayed them during the Great War. This opened up questions as to where the heck they'd been then during all this time... and the obvious answer to that was that they'd left in spaceships after the war! Totally logical! Thankfully retconned into being only a portion of the population leaving, its still a really, really stupid explanation, and since it ultimately kicked up everything to do with the Xorda, that just makes it all the more wretched in my eyes.

Heya Bro! Man, did YOU lose some weight...: Another one to do with the Overlanders, this one specializes in Robotnik's older brother Colin. Colin's first response upon seeing Eggman is to immediatly recognize him as his brother and trust him with his life and the lives of his family and the other surviving Overlanders. There are several problems with this though. First of all, Eggman looks drastically different to the previous Robotnik, and yet Colin questions nothing about this. Second of all, Colin himself was the one who sentanced his brother, for the crime of ATTEMPTING TO USE HIS PEOPLE FOR TEST SUBJECTS IN EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONRY. Colin KNOWS his brother is a psychopath, would he honestly rather risk life with his murderous sibling in a dark and creepy city to escape a rampaging Monkey Khan? Seriously, bad judgement call there Colin, and bad call writers for believing any of this was plausible.

Dark Legion Thugs: One of the better things about the Knuckles comic series was the fact that it introduced a shade of grey in its main opposition, the Dark Legion. While Bad Guys, thier reasons for being the way were reasonably sympathetic and it was shown that they weren't neccessarily less right than the good guys even if thier leadership was pretty bad. Sufficed to say, they made for interesting opponnents given thier history and thier precise agenda... and then Enerjak reborn happened, they lost thier bionics, half of them left, and the other half decided to go to the guy responsible for the genocide of thier race in order to get thier gear back. All that past characterization and shades of grey? Completely gone; all that's left are just some goons and Snively's opposite gender mobian twin.

Tails Times Two: I've read this one over and over and over and OVER and still it makes no more sense now then it did then. I can't even begin to fathom the logic behind this one. The Chosen One storyline in general was one of those things that never could pan out as planned by its very nature, but of all the elements to it, THIS is the thing that effectively killed it I believe, and even taking it out of the CHosen One storyline it'd still be an utterly convuluted and ass backwards plot twist.

Keystone Zone Cops: The Scourge In Prison Arc was another storyline that I had several problems with, but I'll focus on this one; it established once and for all that the Zone Cops, the people supposedly in charge of maintaining the zones and making sure nothing catastrophic happen, are not fit to watch over a bag of pretzels. From the individual zone cops to the unspeakably pathetic excuse for a prison, this arc showed just how inept these guys really are. Seriously, how the heck did these guys even develope the brainpower to turn a door knob if this is the best they can do?

[RedAuthar]

Reminder: I remember Sally being strong, yet a year later she is still crying on Sonic's Grave?

Also to point out that those in the proper mindset are NOT supposed to go running to their room CRYING because their lover nearly died.

Remember Sonic HAD died, or at least they thought and it was a terrible thing that lasted a year. Sally may have been able to deal with it in the past, but no longer.

Also I did say I wasn't justifying, but explaining it was in character to do so. Personally I think it was wrong, but not out of character.

[Gojira007]

Tails Times Two: I've read this one over and over and over and OVER and still it makes no more sense now then it did then. I can't even begin to fathom the logic behind this one. The Chosen One storyline in general was one of those things that never could pan out as planned by its very nature, but of all the elements to it, THIS is the thing that effectively killed it I believe, and even taking it out of the CHosen One storyline it'd still be an utterly convuluted and ass backwards plot twist.

Oh wow. I had completely forgotten about this royal turkey of a plot-line. It almost seems half-way worth it for ultimately resulting in #114's "Twice Told Tails", a deeply-flawed but ultimately affecting wrap-up to the whole thing that even got us one of the only moments of Sonic genuinely crying, but it was still stupid and useless when it was introduced, and remained stupid and useless for almost the entirety of its length.

Also I did say I wasn't justifying, but explaining it was in character to do so. Personally I think it was wrong, but not out of character.

Only I don't mind if Sally was or wasn't "wrong". It is entirely within her ability to be "wrong". But the specific nature of the scenario, the details that drive it forward and the climax it reaches, rings completely and utterly false for me to Sally's character.

I hope I haven't come off as insulting or mean-spirited in all this, by the way. I don't mean to disparage or impugn you in any way, only to make my point.

[RedAuthar]

Bah! I've been playing too much Phoenix Write Ace Attorney so I keep trying to defend everything I say with evidence. I don't mean to come off hostile either. Just stating my opinions and all and answering why I have those opinions.

[Gojira007]

No worries, Red. You've kept things perfectly civil 'n' reasonable, as far as I'm concerned.

I still disagree with your stance on the matter, of course, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

[LaserX5]

Now I'm not saying Sally was in the right, I'm not saying that it was a good move. I just don't agree that it was a stupid move and that it was out of character.

Personally, it wasn't just the fact Sally slapped Sonic and called him selfish that ticked me off about it.

It was that Sally was ready to jump down his throat on a hair trigger response she didn't like to hear.

I mean, when I really think about it, Sonic didn't say anything to her that called for her outburst.

That's what really made it an out of character moment for me.

Sally didn't even give Sonic a chance to explain himself when he said he couldn't be by her side.

Had she heard Sonic out first and then maybe slapped him because she didn't like his reasons, I would have tolerated it better.

That's just my opinion though.

[RedAuthar]

True.

But my point is that she wasn't in her normal mindset at the time. She wasn't thinking clearly. So her response was in character.

[acstrife]

Personally, it wasn't just the fact Sally slapped Sonic and called him selfish that ticked me off about it.

It was that Sally was ready to jump down his throat on a hair trigger response she didn't like to hear.

I mean, when I really think about it, Sonic didn't say anything to her that called for her outburst.

That's what really made it an out of character moment for me.

Sally didn't even give Sonic a chance to explain himself when he said he couldn't be by her side.

Had she heard Sonic out first and then maybe slapped him because she didn't like his reasons, I would have tolerated it better.

That's just my opinion though.

Yeah I can see why you would think that LaserX5, Sally from my opinion really wanted Sonic to stay with her finally after being missing for all that time. The heartbreak of thinking she lost him permanently and then all the sudden hes back well thats alot to bear. Then later to be told that he has to leave her once again is what turned her from clam collected, to possessive crazy woman.

On another note! Sally did the POWER SLAP! You can see sonics cheek curl up it was so epic heh.

[MistressAli]

I sometimes wonder how the slap scene would've come off with different art. Like something with even a hint of subtlety.

[zelchias]

I wager it would still be stupid, but at least it might be more, I dunno, convincing as an emotional and dramatic scene. Seriously, the spawn of shonen manga and old timey animation ain't exactly the best of art styles with which to convey these things... certainly wasn't the case in THIS example, to say the least.

[LogiTeeka]

I wager it would still be stupid, but at least it might be more, I dunno, convincing as an emotional and dramatic scene. Seriously, the spawn of shonen manga and old timey animation ain't exactly the best of art styles with which to convey these things... certainly wasn't the case in THIS example, to say the least.

Actually, I kinda liked the art style in this issue. Jon Gray added some pretty funny easter eggs and cameos throughout this issue. Tekno, Shortfuse, Ebony, Pajamas, Johnny, Porker, Bob Beaky, and Metamorphia from Fleetway's "Sonic the Comic" all make cameo appearances at Mina Mongoose's concert; along with Manic, Sonia, Sleet, Dingo, and Cyrus from "Sonic Underground" and Tiara Boobowski and Tails Doll. Plus, it's also revealed that Sonic has cyclops eye sockets.

But I will agree, this wasn't the appropriate art for this story.

[blue]

I sometimes wonder how the slap scene would've come off with different art. Like something with even a hint of subtlety.

To me, "the slap" could probably ruin the reputation and respect of well known and best artists from the fans at the time(Ex- Stephen Butler, James Fry, Pat Spazainte) if Jon Gray didn't get the job since a lot of fans like the Sonally pairing.

[PuffinGrandeur]

Jon Gray's art was perfect for the slap, I think. No other artist at the time could go to the extremes Dubs can with emotion (in fact, most at the time couldn't really do strong emotion at all), and as such only he could make the scene as powerful as it was. But at the same time, his exaggerated silly art takes away some of the LATER impact, the lingering aftertaste. The scene is silly! And portraying it as such helps soften the blow, even a little. I'm not saying that J. Gray's art is perfect, but at the time he was the absolute best man for the job. I do feel sorry that THAT was his first story though, and that his other big projects would be just as controversial. The poor guy could never catch a break when it came to the stories he was chosen for.

[Gojira007]

I'll agree that, whatever faults the script has, Gray's art was pretty good. It's wild, it's exaggerated, but it's also intentionally so, and honestly works about as well, if not better, for that particular moment as any other artist's could be asked to. I also agree it's a shame he only came aboard the book while Bollers was in the midst of another of his frustrating chronic drops in quality.

[RedAuthar]

I wish he had some more issues.

[MistressAli]

Well, what I really meant was, another artist might have potrayed it differently. Ie: Sally smacking Sonic's cheek with light force, not throwing her entire body weight into it. Or walking off silently with tears shining in her eyes, not with a huge bawling mouth and twin waterfalls . One potrayal is that of a woman snapping under extreme stress and emotion, the other potrayal is that of a three year old throwing a tantrum.

My thinking is the opposite, I guess. I think serious art would've been better, not exaggerated and silly.
Though...the dialouge would've been the same... so... who knows.

That said, I don't mind WB's art. I just don't think it's suited for really serious moments
(I personally wouldn't lose respect for anyone drawing the scene. It's their job, after all. They have to draw what they're assigned to do )

[RedAuthar]

Reminder: Sally is what, 16?

Throwing a tantrum sounds accurate.

[furrykef]

Yeah, except she'd actually acted 16 (let alone less) virtually never.

[PuffinGrandeur]

A teenager snapping isn't all that different from a tantrum. Both are exaggerated forms of emotion in real life, and as such should have properly exaggerated illustrations of such. The high-power emotion Dubs gives the scene makes it brutal enough to really be the type of fight that can destroy two best friends' relationships for years. Slapping Sonic lightly, and walking off with a single silvery tear isn't the same. This wasn't a subtle, sad scene where Sally slowly realized Sonic had to be who he was and she couldn't change it, it was feelings of loss, fear, insecurity and impatience exploding all at once in a firebomb of screams and violence. That's what snapping is: it's not losing your strength, it's losing your CONTROL.

[RedAuthar]

Exactly. And just before hand the same thing happened to her. She wasn't in her normal mindset or her normal calm and clearheaded self.