The entire problem with Amy is the same as the entire problem with other Sega characters like Shadow: she's completely one dimensional.
She wants Sonic to marry her. Wonderful. How exciting.
Say what you want about Sally, and most deficiencies in her character would probably have to do with the fact that the show only had two seasons to develop it, but she and Sonic actually had a rapport, a background (childhood friends going through severe trauma, etc.), and a clear reliance on one another. One could not be totally successful without the other at points along the way.
Given another season or two, I'm sure we could've seen how Sally's issues with the separation from her father would have effected her leadership more consistently, and how seriously she'd have taken the "princess" title if it came down to leading a larger force against Robotnik. Sally's character had room for growth, something that really can't be said for Amy's current incarnation, since her entire character revolves around an infatuation with Sonic.
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What if Amy Rose took Sally's place?
Started by SatAMHOG, Apr 28 2008 01:56 PM
77 replies to this topic
#61
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Posted 21 September 2008 - 05:32 PM
#62
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Posted 22 September 2008 - 06:49 PM
Amy rose is a typical whiny stalker chick anime character. One of the great things about American cartoons, especially in the early 90's, is they all weren't rehashed from other shows. Characters had depth and personality. Some animes are really good (Trigun, Cowboy Bebop), but a good majority seem like they come off an assembly line. They're mass produced. They all follow similar plot lines, have similar characters, and never deviate from their formula. Kids of this generation are eating it up for some reason (dumb kids) and that's why anime has devolved into the garbage it is now.
All this to say Sally is far far superior a character to Amy Rose. Plus, Sally was Sonic's first love interest, you can't take that away (ARCHIE COMICS!)
All this to say Sally is far far superior a character to Amy Rose. Plus, Sally was Sonic's first love interest, you can't take that away (ARCHIE COMICS!)
#63
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Posted 23 September 2008 - 03:18 AM
To be fair, I know people my age liked our fair share of stupid cartoons back in the day (I mean, I'm 23; people my age still know what "And now we know! And knowing is half the battle!" means).
But the early-mid 90's, when SatAM was around, certainly was a great time for cartoons. I've said it before, I'll say it again: that was a time when creators and directors had more control over their shows, so even if the show wasn't all that great, you could at least appreciate that it had heart and was more authentic. Thankfully, there are still toons around today like that for kids.
But yeah; just as America often had "assembly line" cartoons lined up for kids that were basically glorified toy commercials, so Japan's fallen into that trap, as well.
But the early-mid 90's, when SatAM was around, certainly was a great time for cartoons. I've said it before, I'll say it again: that was a time when creators and directors had more control over their shows, so even if the show wasn't all that great, you could at least appreciate that it had heart and was more authentic. Thankfully, there are still toons around today like that for kids.
But yeah; just as America often had "assembly line" cartoons lined up for kids that were basically glorified toy commercials, so Japan's fallen into that trap, as well.
#64
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 07:34 PM
To be honest, I really don't know. But I do perfer Sally over Amy.
#65
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 08:38 PM
It's not a matter of taking anyone's place. The true fans know better about what works out and what doesn't. We don't need to hypothesize things we know didn't happen but you have right to talk about it.
What purpose does swapping the roles really have? It's not like we can go back in time and change that.
What purpose does swapping the roles really have? It's not like we can go back in time and change that.
#66
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Posted 27 March 2009 - 08:29 PM
QUOTE ("bossmanham":mk0ih098)
Amy rose is a typical whiny stalker chick anime character. One of the great things about American cartoons, especially in the early 90's, is they all weren't rehashed from other shows. Characters had depth and personality. Some animes are really good (Trigun, Cowboy Bebop), but a good majority seem like they come off an assembly line. They're mass produced. They all follow similar plot lines, have similar characters, and never deviate from their formula. Kids of this generation are eating it up for some reason (dumb kids) and that's why anime has devolved into the garbage it is now.
All this to say Sally is far far superior a character to Amy Rose. Plus, Sally was Sonic's first love interest, you can't take that away (ARCHIE COMICS!)
All this to say Sally is far far superior a character to Amy Rose. Plus, Sally was Sonic's first love interest, you can't take that away (ARCHIE COMICS!)
Uh, Amy technically debuted in a Japanese Sonic manga and was later adapated into Sonic CD. And American cartoons rehash from other shows too.
#67
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Posted 28 March 2009 - 08:04 AM
Um... let me answer the question as simply as I possible can...
No.
Now for the lengthy explanation behind it.
In SatAM, Sonic's character is very impatient. He's almost always rushes things why too fast for them to work. Fortunately, the character also thinks fast on his feet. So when he's up against the wall with a situation he didn't take time to think through, he still finds a way out of it. So a more patient character like Sally would tone down Sonic's character so it's a little more workable. (So Sonic doesn't become "Unleashed". *comedy drumroll*)
Whereas in Sonic X, Sonic's character is very patient. Almost to the point of lazyness. When he's not fighting "Eggman" he's found napping on poor Chris' roof. The SatAM Sonic doesn't take naps if you remember the episode "No Brainer". So with this major change in Sonic's character, the equal/opposite reaction character would be someone like Amy Rose. Someone who is so hyper, she kinda gets Sonic off his feet every so often when he's not fighting "Eggman".
But of you put the "Hyper" Amy rose with the "Impatient" SatAM Sonic, all Hell breaks loose. Instead of just Sonic sneaking chilly dogs into missions, you have both Sonic and Amy suddenly taking random dates in the middle of missions. All of Mobius would be destroyed by Dr. Robotnik during these dates, and the series would end in about three episode on a sad and sorry note.
No.
Now for the lengthy explanation behind it.
In SatAM, Sonic's character is very impatient. He's almost always rushes things why too fast for them to work. Fortunately, the character also thinks fast on his feet. So when he's up against the wall with a situation he didn't take time to think through, he still finds a way out of it. So a more patient character like Sally would tone down Sonic's character so it's a little more workable. (So Sonic doesn't become "Unleashed". *comedy drumroll*)
Whereas in Sonic X, Sonic's character is very patient. Almost to the point of lazyness. When he's not fighting "Eggman" he's found napping on poor Chris' roof. The SatAM Sonic doesn't take naps if you remember the episode "No Brainer". So with this major change in Sonic's character, the equal/opposite reaction character would be someone like Amy Rose. Someone who is so hyper, she kinda gets Sonic off his feet every so often when he's not fighting "Eggman".
But of you put the "Hyper" Amy rose with the "Impatient" SatAM Sonic, all Hell breaks loose. Instead of just Sonic sneaking chilly dogs into missions, you have both Sonic and Amy suddenly taking random dates in the middle of missions. All of Mobius would be destroyed by Dr. Robotnik during these dates, and the series would end in about three episode on a sad and sorry note.
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#68
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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:54 PM
QUOTE ("Chaosmaster8753":1tei898e)
QUOTE ("bossmanham":1tei898e)
Amy rose is a typical whiny stalker chick anime character. One of the great things about American cartoons, especially in the early 90's, is they all weren't rehashed from other shows. Characters had depth and personality. Some animes are really good (Trigun, Cowboy Bebop), but a good majority seem like they come off an assembly line. They're mass produced. They all follow similar plot lines, have similar characters, and never deviate from their formula. Kids of this generation are eating it up for some reason (dumb kids) and that's why anime has devolved into the garbage it is now.
All this to say Sally is far far superior a character to Amy Rose. Plus, Sally was Sonic's first love interest, you can't take that away (ARCHIE COMICS!)
All this to say Sally is far far superior a character to Amy Rose. Plus, Sally was Sonic's first love interest, you can't take that away (ARCHIE COMICS!)
Uh, Amy technically debuted in a Japanese Sonic manga and was later adapated into Sonic CD. And American cartoons rehash from other shows too.
Amy's prototype was his girlfriend before Sally was. Although Sally's prototype was created about a year before Amy's, she was just a female version of Ricky(with a bow) back then and she wasn't Sonic's love interest, she was just one of the small animals he saved.
Sally and Amy debuted the same year, only a few days apart. In other words, neither was Sonic's love interest first(if you don't count Amy's prototype anyway).
If you want to get really technical, "Madonna" was his real "first love interest."
As Chaosmaster8753, American cartoons are often rehashed too.
Sally is as cliche as Amy is. That type of female character was pretty common in the 90s, even Zelda (from that horrible Legend of Zelda cartoon) had that type of personality. The feminist movement rubbed off on the media. Not that it was a bad thing, it was just very common.
#69
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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:41 AM
QUOTE ("Pirika":1oevepqa)
Sally is as cliche as Amy is. That type of female character was pretty common in the 90s, even Zelda (from that horrible Legend of Zelda cartoon) had that type of personality. The feminist movement rubbed off on the media. Not that it was a bad thing, it was just very common.
That's been going on since "Alien"... maybe even before "Alien". And even though Sally's character is as cliche as Amy's... Sally's is the more preferable of the two.
I believe in what I want to believe in, you believe in what you want to believe in, so when someone wants to believe in something, no one will know what to believe!
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#70
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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:49 AM
I don't think I'd call Amy or Sally's characters "cliche"; Pirika (and welcome to the board, by the way ) is correct in asserting that both characters are cut from pre-existing cloths that were or are prevalent in both the cultures that created them, but, at least to me, a Cliche is when a story element utilizes pre-existing elements in a dull, unoriginal, or unengaging way. At least to me, neither Amy nor Sally really falls into that category, because I find both characters to be interesting enough on their own merits, even though I recognize the pre-existing elements they both use.
I like Sally more, personally, but that's just as much because I find that Character Archetype more appealing to begin with as it is any more Academic reason I could assert.
I like Sally more, personally, but that's just as much because I find that Character Archetype more appealing to begin with as it is any more Academic reason I could assert.
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"To grasp happiness!"
"ERUPTING GOD FINGER!!! SEKI..."
"HA!"
"LOVE LOVE TENKYOKEN!!!"
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#71
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:53 AM
Sorry to sound uptight but the question needs to be rephrased.
Would you replace Sally with Amy?
It's simply a yes or no answer. 'Maybe' doesn't contest Sally's position in the show. There's no way to justify your reasons for doing so if you simply could but keep in mind it would just change history. I'm not sure views on women would change because we generally know who those two are. But is this really the point? Both Sally and Amy have something to contribute to Sonic in their own universes so...
Would you replace Sally with Amy?
It's simply a yes or no answer. 'Maybe' doesn't contest Sally's position in the show. There's no way to justify your reasons for doing so if you simply could but keep in mind it would just change history. I'm not sure views on women would change because we generally know who those two are. But is this really the point? Both Sally and Amy have something to contribute to Sonic in their own universes so...
#72
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 07:32 PM
I think after thinking about it bit more yeah, maybe I would. Princess Amy. I think either Amy or Mina might've made for more interesting princesses, mainly because it allows them to regularly confront flaws in characterization that might impede on actual leadership. In short it could really bring out a lot of the characters. Hey that wouldn't be a bad idea to explore in terms of writing actually. Amy nor Mina are idols. They are role models or have the potential to be, and I much prefer the later of the two, as the characterization for the later is generally much more realistic in terms of what people can actually acheive. Their flaws simply mean more stories to be told. So, I'm not bothered by Amy especially being a princess instead of Sally.
Well for one thing, we've seen how Amy can devote herself to characters like Birdie. Making Amy responsible of others and making her a princess would probably would give her more to do. More responsibilities that she's never had in the games. I think the sides to Amy we see are largely because the circumstances she's pit in give her little else to focus on except shopping and her romance to Sonic.
Another benefit to either Amy or Mina being princesses would be that without Sally the other cast members can really learn how to actually contribute to the story as actual supporting characters. Their personalities can establish a regular function to the main character, as neither were really designed to foil Sonic's personality. The whole princess thing however is really inflexible in that, without a very specific style in goverment elaborated, they would eventually be out of the picture if a status quo change was necessary.
Well for one thing, we've seen how Amy can devote herself to characters like Birdie. Making Amy responsible of others and making her a princess would probably would give her more to do. More responsibilities that she's never had in the games. I think the sides to Amy we see are largely because the circumstances she's pit in give her little else to focus on except shopping and her romance to Sonic.
Another benefit to either Amy or Mina being princesses would be that without Sally the other cast members can really learn how to actually contribute to the story as actual supporting characters. Their personalities can establish a regular function to the main character, as neither were really designed to foil Sonic's personality. The whole princess thing however is really inflexible in that, without a very specific style in goverment elaborated, they would eventually be out of the picture if a status quo change was necessary.
#73
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Posted 04 October 2010 - 10:31 AM
In all honesty I have grown to dislike Amy. Originally she was just a girl in the Sonic Universe (not the comic). Then she became self claimed she was Sonic's girlfriend. I kinda like her as a character back during these to times. Now however she is back to being just a girl in the Sonic Universe. She is kinda just there.
I think I would've liked SatAM and Archie Comics less if it was Amy instead of Sally. That and Amy would be more focused on winning Sonic then leading the fight against Robotnik.
I think I would've liked SatAM and Archie Comics less if it was Amy instead of Sally. That and Amy would be more focused on winning Sonic then leading the fight against Robotnik.
#74
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Posted 04 October 2010 - 10:54 AM
... I recently gave my feelings on the Sonic and Amy paring vs the Sonic and Sally one:
When it comes to shipping... I don't really care. In the SatAM world, Sonic and Sally. Sega world, Sonic and his personal stalker. Archie series... things get a little messy.
Of the two relationships, I feel Sonic and Sally have more chemistry. Sonic's free spirit and Sally's need for rules go hand in hand, and really give the two life.
Sonic and Amy... Well, "I love you!" "Whatever..." "MERRY ME!" "No." "I'll hurt you." "*runs away*" "Awww..."
... I never really saw it going anywhere beyond a kid having a crush on her hero... But it works fine for the Sega series.
http://saber16.devia...rites/#/d295o1x
When it comes to shipping... I don't really care. In the SatAM world, Sonic and Sally. Sega world, Sonic and his personal stalker. Archie series... things get a little messy.
Of the two relationships, I feel Sonic and Sally have more chemistry. Sonic's free spirit and Sally's need for rules go hand in hand, and really give the two life.
Sonic and Amy... Well, "I love you!" "Whatever..." "MERRY ME!" "No." "I'll hurt you." "*runs away*" "Awww..."
... I never really saw it going anywhere beyond a kid having a crush on her hero... But it works fine for the Sega series.
http://saber16.devia...rites/#/d295o1x
#75
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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:10 AM
I'd hate that! Sally would surely be anoyyed because of Amy thinking she was Sonic's girlfriend, and I just hate her. She might also be a weakness to the freedom fighters.
#76
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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:22 PM
The title refers to Amy replacing Sally. This means no Sally... so who will be the leader of the Freedom Fighters? Sonic couldn't handle it alone, because Sally is always there to correct him when he's wrong, something he is very often. Amy Rose? Leader of Team Rose, acceptable. Leader of the Freedom Fighters resistance, not a chance. Rotor? No, he's a mechanic. Bunnie? No, she's a fighter. Tails? Too young. Dulcy? Obviously not. Antoine? Point made.
Romance doesn't matter at all. For all I care they start a threesome. The point is Sally's leadership, and without a good leader, their little group will be squashed by Robotnik. It just wouldn't work, the Freedom Fighters need a Sally. Amy ánd Sally in the FF? Well, no problem. It works in the comics, and Sally could be a great tutor for Amy. The only trouble are the fans, starting this extremistic Twilight-scenario with Team Sonsally and Team Sonamy, giving a bad name to the entire fanbase and making a fool out of themselves.
And without Sally, no naked chicks on saturday morning.
Romance doesn't matter at all. For all I care they start a threesome. The point is Sally's leadership, and without a good leader, their little group will be squashed by Robotnik. It just wouldn't work, the Freedom Fighters need a Sally. Amy ánd Sally in the FF? Well, no problem. It works in the comics, and Sally could be a great tutor for Amy. The only trouble are the fans, starting this extremistic Twilight-scenario with Team Sonsally and Team Sonamy, giving a bad name to the entire fanbase and making a fool out of themselves.
And without Sally, no naked chicks on saturday morning.
#77
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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:44 PM
I'd be completely against the idea.
Its bad enough Sega of Japan shuns Sally, but the idea having Amy taking her spot is completely unthinkable.
NO WAY!
Its bad enough Sega of Japan shuns Sally, but the idea having Amy taking her spot is completely unthinkable.
NO WAY!
#78
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Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:28 PM
I am not against Amy being used in SatAM continuity, I think there is a place for her and other Comic characters, but she couldnt replace our Sal. Her skills on the whole are what the remaining FFs dont have. In the comics even, the FFs would most likely be dead without Sally.
In the Fleetway comics in England (Sonic the Comic) Amy is actually quite a capable leader and is so different from the other versions of her, she isnt stalkerish and does the I love Sonic thing just to wind him up, rather than because she's in love with him. It is quite possible they copied off Sally for that version of Amy, It was also way before Amy's redesign on Sonic Adventure too
But the fact remains, Sally is the only one who actually has the skills to lead them.
In the Fleetway comics in England (Sonic the Comic) Amy is actually quite a capable leader and is so different from the other versions of her, she isnt stalkerish and does the I love Sonic thing just to wind him up, rather than because she's in love with him. It is quite possible they copied off Sally for that version of Amy, It was also way before Amy's redesign on Sonic Adventure too
But the fact remains, Sally is the only one who actually has the skills to lead them.
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