232 replies to this topic

[Vampfox]

Big news in the Archie Comics vs Ken Penders legal battle.

Archie v. Penders Trial Set for Late October
Let’s Get Ready to Rumble


We did speculate yesterday the possibility of a full blown trial in the case Archie Comics is pursuing against former Sonic comic writer Ken Penders, and indeed, we’ve learned that is coming to fruition.

TSSZ has learned a date is scheduled in New York Federal District Court on Monday, October 31st, bright and early, for the beginning of a jury trial. The trial is expected to last about a week.

We are attempting to confirm more trial details and we will bring you more about it when something crosses the case docket.

Source: http://www.tssznews....r-late-october/

[NeonZephyr]

What. WHAT.

This is actually going to trial?

I've thought this whole thing was so insane from the get-go, but I never thought that it would go this far. I always thought that a judge would actually laugh at it. It seemed rather silly to me. I understand he loves his characters and work, don't get me wrong, but it's not like he can use them outside of official SEGA works. THEY'RE DERIVATIVE. It's kinda the nature of the subject.

But, rather than let future readers enjoy his work and love characters he created for years to come, he would rather screw up the comic and try to take them away. I don't understand why he doesn't get this.

And, before I have anyone go "You just hate Penders," let me say that I loved the Knuckles Comic. I loved his early work (weird as some of it was). I hated his last year or so, but I was still able to have fond memories of seeing his name under the title of Writer. (I'm a huge, closet Remington fan, for goodness's sake. Half my favorites seem to have been created by him. So, this is mildly personal, as I would be one of the fans he'd be taking the characters AWAY FROM.) My anger at this clearly has nothing to do with his writing.

The whole thing just seems so unprofessional on his side. And illogical. Instead of throwing money away on lawyers, and time on a trial, why not GET A JOB? I'm going into writing for a career eventually, myself, but I'm willing to get a "normal" job to support me rather than try to milk stuff I left behind YEARS AGO.

Just...rrgh.



(Sorry for the wall of text. I talk too much. This is why I usually just lurk.)

[furrykef]

I've thought this whole thing was so insane from the get-go, but I never thought that it would go this far. I always thought that a judge would actually laugh at it. It seemed rather silly to me. I understand he loves his characters and work, don't get me wrong, but it's not like he can use them outside of official SEGA works. THEY'RE DERIVATIVE. It's kinda the nature of the subject.

No, no. Penders isn't suing Archie. Archie is suing him. Remember that Penders filed for copyrights on his stories. Archie thinks (rightly, IMO) that Penders doesn't actually own those stories, hence the lawsuit.

[NeonZephyr]

No, no. Penders isn't suing Archie. Archie is suing him. Remember that Penders filed for copyrights on his stories. Archie thinks (rightly, IMO) that Penders doesn't actually own those stories, hence the lawsuit.

[*Goes and does research*]

Oh. Yeah. I knew that. I just remembered his filing a suit against SEGA and EA, and got it a little mixed. [/headdesk] Sorry bout that.

And I agree with your opinion. Archie is completely right to protect their work. Granted, some might say that Penders is, too, but he was also working for a comic company to create for THEIR book, not his own. And, honestly, doesn't it all actually belong to SEGA in the end? (All characters, from the SatAM cast, to Penders' characters, to Bollers', to Ian Flynn's, and all stories and concepts and so forth?) Contractual, Freelance or otherwise? [I'm not in law, so I'm not entirely sure on this, though it certainly makes sense to me.]

[PuffinGrandeur]

If it was freelance he'd own the rights. A lot of Fleetway is creator-owned because of that.

[furrykef]

If it was freelance he'd own the rights.

Whether it's "in-house" or "freelance" is irrelevant. All that matters is the terms of the contract -- which we don't have access to, but almost certainly states that everything he creates for the comic belongs to Archie and/or Sega.

[henryiii]

Penders still hasn't learn't the meaning of the term "shared universe" has he?

[saber16]

He asked for it :/

[NeonZephyr]

[@furrykef: I thought so, but I wasn't totally sure. We'll have to wait and see if we get to learn the full contractual terms, I guess.]

Having gotten some sleep, I took another look at this and realized, that's gonna be one seriously ticked off jury. ("We're here over funny cartoon animals?") Unless they're all Archie fans...which would be kinda biased.

I wonder if this will get TV coverage, like on TruTV or something. I mean, it's not everyday that we see this type of thing go to trial. It would be a fresh change from other trials on TV, at least.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Ken Penders = Asshole!

[Vampfox]

Penders career is over. Even if he wins no one will want to hire him again. He'll also be seen as that guy who ended that long running comic book. Sonic fans will hate the guy, and will most likely not buy his Echidna fiction. And without the Sega characters alot of people will never buy his Echidna stories.

His career is done.

[blue]

If it was freelance he'd own the rights. A lot of Fleetway is creator-owned because of that.

In Britain, comic book creators have their right to keep their creative material.

[furrykef]

Too bad Archie isn't a British company, then.

[NeonZephyr]

Penders career is over. Even if he wins no one will want to hire him again. He'll also be seen as that guy who ended that long running comic book. Sonic fans will hate the guy, and will most likely not buy his Echidna fiction. And without the Sega characters alot of people will never buy his Echidna stories.

His career is done.

I certainly would never hire him. Win or lose, he handled this thing extremely unprofessionally from the get-go. Like I said, I loved the Knuckles book (at least, until the last few issues). But, I wouldn't buy that graphic novel, even if it did get published. Even if it consisted of nothing but my favorite characters, I just wouldn't be able to get the bad taste out of my mouth. And, the characters wouldn't even be allowed to look the same. They'd have to be completely redesigned to look nothing like Knux or Mobians in general. They couldn't use the Chaos or Master Emeralds. Or the Chaotix. Or even, really, the real Angel Island. It wouldn't be a Brotherhood book. It'd be a lite sci-fi comic about weird looking, animalistic aliens. Essentially. Not what fans would've wanted.

If it was freelance he'd own the rights. A lot of Fleetway is creator-owned because of that.

In Britain, comic book creators have their right to keep their creative material.

Archie is American. Not British. Neither is Penders. So, while that's nice and all, it has no precedence on this case.

He'd have to prove that his contract (which I know he signed one, freelance or not. it's typical in every publishing types I've encountered) allowed him to keep all rights to characters, names, likenesses, etc. Which I doubt. Archie's not stupid. (Didn't they do something like this once before. Something non-Sonic?)

[Espio'd by furrykef. ]

[henryiii]

Off topic, but could someone please give me some links where it shows that the Fleetway authors own part of the STC cast?

[MoKat]

I've thought this whole thing was so insane from the get-go, but I never thought that it would go this far. I always thought that a judge would actually laugh at it. It seemed rather silly to me.

I agree that the whole thing -is- silly, but I'm really not surprised to see that Archie Comics has retaliated after Penders started the whole mess.
*shakes her head*
I -knew- nothing good would come from the original lawsuit...this is proving me right.

Penders career is over. Even if he wins no one will want to hire him again.

*nods* I agree with ya there, Darkfox. Nobody will touch him with a 10-foot pole because they don't want the headache of a potential legal battle.

I loved the Knuckles book (at least, until the last few issues). But, I wouldn't buy that graphic novel, even if it did get published. Even if it consisted of nothing but my favorite characters, I just wouldn't be able to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

I'm in the same boat...
*gives some oars to Neon Zephyr*
-.o
*blinks*
Were you, by any chance, ever active at Knuckles Haven?

{edit: decided to be nice & added the link}

[blue]

Penders career is over. Even if he wins no one will want to hire him again. He'll also be seen as that guy who ended that long running comic book. Sonic fans will hate the guy, and will most likely not buy his Echidna fiction. And without the Sega characters alot of people will never buy his Echidna stories.

His career is done.

I certainly would never hire him. Win or lose, he handled this thing extremely unprofessionally from the get-go. Like I said, I loved the Knuckles book (at least, until the last few issues). But, I wouldn't buy that graphic novel, even if it did get published. Even if it consisted of nothing but my favorite characters, I just wouldn't be able to get the bad taste out of my mouth. And, the characters wouldn't even be allowed to look the same. They'd have to be completely redesigned to look nothing like Knux or Mobians in general. They couldn't use the Chaos or Master Emeralds. Or the Chaotix. Or even, really, the real Angel Island. It wouldn't be a Brotherhood book. It'd be a lite sci-fi comic about weird looking, animalistic aliens. Essentially. Not what fans would've wanted.

If it was freelance he'd own the rights. A lot of Fleetway is creator-owned because of that.

In Britain, comic book creators have their right to keep their creative material.

Archie is American. Not British. Neither is Penders. So, while that's nice and all, it has no precedence on this case.

He'd have to prove that his contract (which I know he signed one, freelance or not. it's typical in every publishing types I've encountered) allowed him to keep all rights to characters, names, likenesses, etc. Which I doubt. Archie's not stupid. (Didn't they do something like this once before. Something non-Sonic?)

[Espio'd by furrykef. ]

I was just correcting Puffin, but maybe I should have actually first and the information I got was on wikipedia.

[NeonZephyr]

Were you, by any chance, ever active at Knuckles Haven?

I don't recall it, so I'm gonna say no. I DO however float around several of the various Sonic Communities, whether I'm registered or not. You might have seen me lurking on a different forum, though.

Thanks for the link, though. I don't actually own the Knuckles comics myself (I had some awesome friends growing up ), so the trip down nostalgia lane was nice.

[/offtopic]

ANYWAY, back on topic! Does anyone live in NY? Close enough to the Federal District Court? Would be nice to have some inside eyes if the trial's public. I don't know if it would be, but hey.

[PuffinGrandeur]

Off topic, but could someone please give me some links where it shows that the Fleetway authors own part of the STC cast?

I don't remember many instances, but Kitching has stated as such in his visits to some online forums. It was in response to the Fleetway cameo fiasco, which he was very well-mannered about. And again when talking about a theoretical crossover. And again here.

[Vampfox]

Well the trial starts today.