21 replies to this topic

[ZanetheWolf]

I thought this place would have more topics, but i guess i was wrong.


Basically, this topic is a discussion topic on what problems developers face when making games, how can the design of games change, or what can be improved.

One notable "problem" on the "Improving the Community" is (and yes, i WILL bring this up.) the fact that gaming is a male-dominant activity. Why is this? Well, it actually depends on how you look at it. More girls could play video games than boys in a certain area, but seriously now. When would you see at least 4 women in a line of people waiting for CoD:BO's release? Exactly. Now i'm not saying there aren't female gamers out there. There are plenty of hardcore, female gamers. But, why is it that when we men look around, females seem to be completely uninterested with our games, such as CoD, GoW, Mass Effect, Half-Life.....Speaking of Half-Life, it's heroine in the 2 game and on, Alex, is not a sex figure in gaming. She's just a character who is female, and does NOT end up getting real-life men drooling over her. On the other hand, Lara Croft, Tomb Raider's main character, was intended to be a sexy, over-the-top, badass woman who is hot, yet capable. But when the community comes up, (Mostly us guys, you know who you are.) we see her in topless pics. This is not what was intended. Even if they creators changed her, it would change the fact that Lara Croft is most likely the biggest sex symbol in gaming. This is probably one reason the female audience is not amused with games. Because we portray them for what we, as men, want, or would like to see. (Again, you know who you are.) Nowadays, there are many sex symbols in gaming. Ivy, from "Soul Caliber", That girl on the cover of the game "Blades", Lara Croft from "Tomb Raider", heck, even the girl from "Perfect Dark Zero". Sniper Fox from "Metal Gear Solid". The list goes on and on, and i think that's why a lot of females don't appreciate games. Because quite a bit of the content is aimed at guys. This will be probably the only time i bring it up, but another thing that could tick the female audience off are the *cough, cough* "Breast Physics." You know, when video game women's breasts dangle and sway about. Even i think that's over hall on some levels. Now, take the game "Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World." Sure, it has the "jiggly boobs" thing in it, but that's because they are making fun of it, because it's ridiculous how over exaggerated the breast physics are in games. And another reason, there are women who are gaming fans, and i mean HUGE gaming fans, so huge that they have the nerve to upload pictures of them NAKED with controllers, keyboards, even the consoles themselves, cover the woman. This could make other women think "Is this what i would be when i start gaming?" I know you gals are smarter than that, but it could happen. Now, i know you guys would just LOVE to have girls play video games along with you, but just because we invite them, doesn't mean that they feel welcome. So we need to find a way to make them comfortable with gaming.

So what do you all think? If this gets a bit popular, or until i get a few posts up, i'll add a new topic to this.

[Copernicus]

Who is playing video games is misleading. As far as people under the age of 30, more men play video games than women. In the older community more women play video games than men. Video games are marketed towards a target audience, such as 18-25 year old men, so you shouldn't be surprised when you notice mostly people of a target audience playing a game. If you want to encounter more female gamers you need to hang out with women 40-60 years old. Unless you hate casual games.

As far as design, if you want to attract a broader audience you should make it cuter. That's something I did with my first commercial video game, F-Copernicus 1. I could have made it more targeted to the core audience, but I chose to use animals for characters and reduce frustration through applying no-death gaming concepts.

Instead of making women like games you want to play, how about making games women like to play?

[RedAuthar]

Being stereotypical, Men and Women tend to like different things. Being actual there are just as many women who like video games as men. And just as many women like games such as Call of Duty and Halo as men who like games such as Harvest Moon and Nintendogs. The big issue is actually who is buying. Most girls don't go to a store and buy games except cutesy ones, Mostly guys buy the games such as Gears of War. I worked in a Toy Store for a while and noticed, if it is considered a guy thing, girls are afraid to buy it and if it is a girl thing guys are afraid to buy it, because they are afraid to look weird.

[quirkybear]

I agree with RedAuthar to an extent. As we've seen, we have a Brony community on our hands today, but here is the issue that I find myself thinking. SOME women, not all of them, but I can imagine the majority of them, dislike videogames because most of them are targeted toward male audiences with the mechanics and thought process of being masculine minded. What I mean by mechanics is the way the games work. If women and men hold different thought processes, it would make sense that catering to women mechanically would be different as well. It's not just about the look of the game, its the way the game works. I personally don't like overly complicated games because I find it time consuming when i could be doing something else. Even if I find a sex goddess in a game, it would be no different to seeing a hot action-packed, 4-6 pack male on the cover. It's just that we always seem to have a camera pointed at us in a certain position which makes us appealing, and it's not because we're camera whores. Guys are just obsessed with us. Always have been and most likely will. ;P Of course some of us turn out to be camera whores for this reason.

Now...of course there will be women who would prefer playing shooter games. For instance, I played Red Dead Redemption because I thought it looked interesting artistically. I can tell you, I'm horrible at this game, but I still find it fun. I just like more straight forward games because things can become complicated to the point where I don't feel like playing the game anymore. I could just care less. There's only so much I can take, but I guess I'm just impatient, and would rather play a game that doesn't frustrate me. And just because I suck at video games, doesn't mean I can't appreciate them. Personally, I'd rather create them than play them--at least the character and story part in it. However, RDR also pissed me off because all the women were either prostitutes or extremely annoying like Bonnie in my opinion. =_=

[RedAuthar]

Ha ha.

Everybody complains that games are filled with overly attractive women and overly muscled men (like comic books and movies). The reason for this is this: Would we want to play the characters if they weren't visually appealing?

But yeah....camera angles do not need to be always placed to see the girls at certain angles. I mean come on...it's ridiculous.

[quirkybear]

LOL I'm not really complaining. Why wouldn't I want to stare at some hot guy's abs? I just find our psychology hilarious.

If we play less appealing characters it's for comedy relief. And for women, there only seems to one kind of body type. It's like we're just supposed to be hot, and even if we're 'provided' intelligence we're still hot. For comedy relief we're still hot... Even the villains. I mean who wants to see Dr. Robotnik with Dr. Robotchik? That's like DX GOD NO!? But it's hilarious. For sure...Robotchik would still be hot. ( I made up Robotchik btw).

[RedAuthar]

Yeah. Probably.

Well there is always Mizuzu from the Kunio-Kun series:

[quirkybear]

That's awesome!!! I've never seen her before. I'm gonna look her up online now. Thanks !!

[RedAuthar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunio_Kun

[Reed Teran]

I've puzzled this much often. While I learned that companies are trying to bring more women in through casual games (cooking Mama...I hate it, but Tessa likes it...ugh.), but most girls are wanting action games. And on the topic of stereotyping females in games, Tessa, the girl I'm with, LAUGHS at them. She enjoys them because they're funny. We both play a lot of games, and she laughed at most of the exaggerated "physics". So not all women are angry about the stereotyping, methinks.
And yes, scott pilgrim is our favorite co-op, and she loves it. So I know what you mean.

[quirkybear]

Thanks for the link Red Authar!! Sorry, I was lagging a bit. I had to help my mom with something. I'm definitely going to try this game when I get the chance. It looks hilarious (to me).

I've puzzled this much often. While I learned that companies are trying to bring more women in through casual games (cooking Mama...I hate it, but Tessa likes it...ugh.), but most girls are wanting action games. And on the topic of stereotyping females in games, Tessa, the girl I'm with, LAUGHS at them. She enjoys them because they're funny. We both play a lot of games, and she laughed at most of the exaggerated "physics". So not all women are angry about the stereotyping, methinks.
And yes, scott pilgrim is our favorite co-op, and she loves it. So I know what you mean.

I totally agree on this. It's just how guys and girls see things differently, but once and awhile we're allowed to meet in the middle. It's more or less laughing about how guys view us sometimes. Teehee. I would like to see some more variety though--for just artistic reasons..

[Reed Teran]

I'm scared "variety" means a buff amazonian beating the crap out of aliens and rescuing a skinny office guy.

And I think. Japanese games are worth mentioning. Either the girl is kicking some major tail(Lambda and KOS MOS), the major cutie, the feline(felicia and every catgirl) or just the flirt/love interest(hina and the girls from the Needless+ spinoff game)

[quirkybear]

Hahaha.... hellz yeah!! No, I'm joking. That was not what I had in mind. I do like Mario party, and Smash bros.

Girl games from Japan are interesting...but its just...it's difficult because they become boring for me at times--they're all the same to me. I do like Persona 4 though. It also has a great soundtrack in my opinion. I love Teddi, the big giant bear.

I also don't really like cat girls too much..you know when they grow kitten ears? It's cute, but meh...I'm not interested. I'm very selective about games. I just don't go buy the next thing that's out there, you know?

[Reed Teran]

I have to deal with Kat Girls. Not fun. Big nerdy girls in cat ears. Not fun.

But yeah! I've played many games, and on some, most of the guys are either D bags or Duke Nukem-style morons, so I have to play as the girls. And the few girls I have played have good storyline and an actual plot instead of a "snu-snu/eye candy" thing. So not all game girls are stereotyped.
ESPECIALLY THOSE JAPANESE GAMES. There are exceptions...I played Doki Doki Shinpan once...and I never played it again. Youtube can tell you why.

[RedAuthar]

I have a very Broad Genre of Games I like. My issue is individual games. For example I liked the older WWII Generation Call of Duty Games. I'm not to fond of Black Ops or Modern Warfare. I'm also not a big fan of Online FPS's. Or online games for that matter.

But I do like Shooters, FPS (if they have a good story and fun game play), Fighters, RPGs, Platformers, Brawlers, Fantasy, Adventure, Some Sports, Racing, and Party Games.

Not very fond of Sim games. Sims are fun...but get boring after about 30 mins. Same with Animal Crossing like games and Harvest Moon.

[quirkybear]

I have to deal with Kat Girls. Not fun. Big nerdy girls in cat ears. Not fun.

But yeah! I've played many games, and on some, most of the guys are either D bags or Duke Nukem-style morons, so I have to play as the girls. And the few girls I have played have good storyline and an actual plot instead of a "snu-snu/eye candy" thing. So not all game girls are stereotyped.

ESPECIALLY THOSE JAPANESE GAMES. There are exceptions...I played Doki Doki Shinpan once...and I never played it again. Youtube can tell you why.

Cat girls are ok if they're restricted to Halloween. I like wearing bear ears on Halloween, but if I want to cosplay I usually try to pick a character without complicated ears because they keep on multiplying. I think it's time to fix those feral bitches. =_= As much as I like Hello Kitty, and cats in general, I don't plan to imitate them every single day of my god damn life. Or bears for that matter--although you will see a lot of bear parodies.

Btw..how old are these girls? Are they still in their teens because I was a bit more nerdy back then about it, and it didn't bother me so much until I went to college. Then I was like...wtf? Cat woman is my one exception because she's awesome, and funnier about it ;P. Girls can be cute without having to look like kittens!! I call for a stand. WOMEN AGAINST KITTEN EARS!!

I have a very Broad Genre of Games I like. My issue is individual games. For example I liked the older WWII Generation Call of Duty Games. I'm not to fond of Black Ops or Modern Warfare. I'm also not a big fan of Online FPS's. Or online games for that matter.

But I do like Shooters, FPS (if they have a good story and fun game play), Fighters, RPGs, Platformers, Brawlers, Fantasy, Adventure, Some Sports, Racing, and Party Games.


Not very fond of Sim games. Sims are fun...but get boring after about 30 mins. Same with Animal Crossing like games and Harvest Moon.

I've never played Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon. I want to play Fable 3, but...my brother owns the Xbox 360, and I sort of need a crowbar to get him off it. I played RDR because I like Clint Eastwood, and I thought it would be fun to be a cowboy. Who knew the things I'd find in that game...? I liked it because you could be a good or a bad guy. LOL..Although the first time I stole a horse was a mistake. I ended up shooting it in the neck. See what I mean? I totally suck at shooters even though I've shot a target in real life. My teacher told me I hit the crotch shot. Best moment in my life, no offense to you guys. btw...it was by accident cause it was my first time shooting.

I like doing horrible things to the SIMs...like keeping the toilet in the living room so they have no privacy? Those people start to float! lol if you've ever heard that expression! After awhile I feel bad and end up giving them their privacy...god damn my female emotional attachment. I do the same thing with my Pokemon: I like the orginal: Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold, Silver, and Crystal. Plus their remakes. The last pokemon game I enjoyed was Sapphire plus the remakes for Red, Green (Blue), Heart Gold and Soul Silver. I skipped the generation after Sapphire, tried pokemon black, but was severely disappointed. Not doing that again. The only spinoffs I really like are Pokemon Pinball, and Pokemon Rangers: Shadows of Almia. And just because I'm talking about pokemon...here is my dream team: Blaziken, Butterfree, Jolteon, Tropius, Kyogre, and either Tediursa or Castform. I love Pokemon...but for the show, I liked Digimon better as a kid. I want to play the Digimon games for the DS eventually.

I usually like playing games with a Story, except for Smash bros and Mario party because I miss playing old board games like Parcheesi, Operation, and Hi Ho Cheerio --which is why i enjoy Mario Party. I don't play many online games because it takes up too much room on my laptop, and I need the space to save artwork, and other files. I used to play this wolf RPG, where you're a wolf trying to survive at Yellowstone Park, but it sucked because you can no longer play with someone online...just a computer generated wolf aka you're mate. The reason is because people aka some immature a** holes decided to drown their pups instead of play the actual game, and that's why I stopped playing. I wanted to play with other people, not the automated wolf because it gets boring without other plays.

I used to like final fantasy, but the recent final fantasy 13 pissed me off so much, i was like BLEH!! And left it alone. Most of my favorite games from the Sega Genesis: Sonic 2, The Lion King, Aladdin, Ms. Pacman, and many many more...but I've written too much already, so I guess I should pause, and let you guys say something else. lol

PAUSE....

[RedAuthar]

Personally I'm also a LAST GENERATION gamer. I usually don't play a game till it's lost it's popularity or tends to be a flop (X-Men Destiny. I love that game).

[quirkybear]

Personally I'm also a LAST GENERATION gamer. I usually don't play a game till it's lost it's popularity or tends to be a flop (X-Men Destiny. I love that game).

PAUSE...

Sorry...I went all nerdville on everyone. I tend to run my mouth off when I'm nervous. Or in this case, run my mind to typed words off?

I've never played X-men Destiny, so I can't really say anything about the game. I'm very interested in it now though. I liked the X-men games on the genesis, so I think I'll give it a shot.

To me, its not whether its a flop or not, its just whether i find it enjoyable or consider it a 'flop' in my own opinion. I don't like hearing someone say 'it sucks' without actually playing the game myself. I don't listen to ratings for this reason. This is the reason I tried Black. I wanted to get back into pokemon, but Black and White were difficult for me to handle even though I tried conceptualizing it artistically. I also have no idea what the Digimon games are rated either. I just saw them, and my heart became nostalgic. I have too much heart sometimes, and my flaw most likely about gaming IS my nostalgia. This might help improve gamers-- harnessing their nostalgia. If it wasn't for this flaw many gamers might be more accepting of games like the 'out of style' games. I just think people get bored or annoyed that something they enjoyed a long time ago is stretched so much out of proportion in their minds, they cannot see the intricacies of the new game perhaps turned flop. Maybe this isn't the SOLE reason, but it wouldn't hurt for people to try to see the games as they are, and not compare them with the old.

I like your thinking though because it gives me a new outlook on gaming in general. Maybe next time I'll look at the rating, and choose one that isn't so main stream like pokemon.

[RedAuthar]

There are a lot of good games out there that get smothered by the mainstream and big sellers.

Also X-Men Destiny is a flop do to glitches and not as much free choice as it advertised. HOWEVER the game was made to please X-Men fans and it makes it worth while to me.

[quirkybear]

That's pretty awesome. I'm going to look into it.

As for games, I think it would be interesting if the creators intentionally added glitches to them--as if the glitch is a part of the game, and not considered a mistake. Or are the glitches in X-men intentional? I like films that intentionally makes you feel like your watching a film, and not just watching a narrative. If this makes sense?