58 replies to this topic

[Reed Teran]

sadly, germany is kinda not the best boat in the water right now, because of neo nazis and Mulnetter, so, I get the butt end of the rifle. I do feel sorry for the natives and aborigines, and I share the sympathy due to my ancestry(grandpa Johannes was an SS kapitan) and my nationality both being associated with the bad guys of history, so I actually don't like racism, predjudism, or stereotyping. I hate it when you ask some punk why they're kicking the crap out of some poor kid, and they say "cuz he's a black/asian/mexican/german/foreigner/indian" and it makes me wonder who tha hell takes time to teach their kids anything other than"we're better, beer good, women fun, and injins are devil worshippers"

[Morgan]

Well... truthfully I understand Reed's first comment. I'm half Korean and half white (the white part is mostly German though, as my father is of mostly German descent himself). And as a child, I was constantly picked on for my race. Since my features are more prominently Asian, you can take a guess what I was picked on the most for. I don't know that I received kinder treatment than you, Reed, but I was pushed into fences, pushed off of stairs, tripped, called all kinds of names like "cat eater" and Chinese (despite the fact I'm no percentage Chinese), and the infamous "Chink". There is no superior race, and that shit's just got to stop. On the matter of equality...everyone's already said what I was going to. But I am going to say it does suck what happened to the natives, but as others said already, no one's going to be equal until everyone's treated the same way, plain and simple.

[chief]

Wait wait... You mean you don't eat cats?

[Morgan]

Yes, Paul, contrary to popular belief, I don't eat cats.

[MistressAli]

Pay more attention to actual history... There's a difference between the spoils of war, and outright theft. Do yo think that thieves should just be allowed to keep the stuff they take? That's the main point of contention. You'd be singing a different tune if someone hotwired your car and the police just laughed and said "tough luck", and people got indigent over you wanting your car back, because the thief has more of a right to it than you do...

Well, Chief and John really said what I feel. I don't see difference between spoils of war and theft, to be honest... they are both theft and conquer, and it's not like the Natives didn't fight back (they were just very outmatched) The thing is, nobody stole YOUR land, they stole your ancestors land. Nobody overtook your home just last week, and threw you out while the police just laughed.
I mean, seriously, you make comments like 'DAMN YOU, WHITE PEOPLE!!!!! Also: GET OFF OUR LAND, YOU THIEVING BASTARDS!!!!!'... seriously, is that what you want people to do? Do you want people who have been born here, who's parents, grandparents, great-grandparents...etc... do you want you want everyone in this country to pack up and leave?
Also, how do most Natives want to live? Do they want to be off on their own (like a reservation) and actually live out a lifestyle of the past, with self-built shelter, hunting, making everything theirself and etc... or do they want to live in the modern world (while still holding to some traditions) If they want to live natural-style then I think the government should support that and give them the land, yes. If they want to live modern, then I don't see why they would also cling to the past. I'm not trying to be snide here. I'm just wondering.
And yes it sucks that some Natives are stuck at the bottom of the rung, born poor and unable to make their way up, but this happens with whites, blacks, hispanics and pretty much every other race in the country too...

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

My grandmother adopted after giving birth to my mom. One of the children she adopted was a Native American boy from the Onondaga tribe. (Eel clan, I think?) He grew up to be very fond of his heritage. I learned a lot from him.

From my experience growing up, many Native Americans (some prefer being called "First Peoples") celebrate their heritage throughout the year holding traditional annual ceremonies and such. Nobody lives in a tepee or anything like that, and the ones that do live on reservations to go out and enjoy the rest of the world from time to time. But I would refrain from calling it "modern society" seeing as how the First People have use of modern technology just like anyone else would. They just that those who care also live in their family customs and traditional pastimes. (I say "those who care" because there a lot of people who just want to live on a reservation in the first place.)

There are still some who show hostilities toward White People, though. They aren't many, but they're out there.

[Reed Teran]

Us germans really don't care about what we get called or respects towards holidays unless nazis are brought up...then, all hell breaks loose and you see rage like you've never seen before.

[randomizer]

Personally I think everybody is racist. I discriminate against others based on race almost every day, and I'm sure they do the same. Racism isn't just hatred, it's treating people differently because of their race. Most of the time it's subtle.

[Vlad Yvhv]

Its more to the point of the past though. Myself and Ali for the Natives and John for the Aboriginals. We stole no land. Goes back to the point I made earlier about going after some guy cause his great great grandfather killed your great great grandfather. For your case its if someone stole your great great grandfathers car. Then its somehow right to get money from all his great great grandchildren.

I understand whats going on in America is different from whats going on in Canada. However as long as YOU keep putting "white man stole our land bla bla bla" you will never get equality. This isn't the days of Cowboys and Indians anymore. This is a fully connected world. You get mad at the white man coming here but look at fucking history. The Romans took over Europe, no one gives a rats ass now. The past is the past. That's it. Shit happened back then, fucked stuff up. Ooops. Thats the way it was. ALL OVER! It wasn't just America and Australia that got invaded, everywhere got taken over by someone at one time or another. So yes, I am sick of hearing the shit about the evil white man. I'm fucking sorry for what some white people did back in the day. Boo fucking woo. Its not my fault. I didn't choose it. And for all I care I think its a big fucking rip off that I pay for it. If you get down and dirty with it its just reverse racism and thats all there is too it. "Your white! Your the bad guy!". Bull shit.

Again, missing my point. The point is: If the government quit being such an asshole and just paid off their debts and allowed consolidation or fair compensation for the junk land, we'd be square, and wouldn't need the attitude you despise. Also, it's not so much the White Man that we're angry at right now, as the government, itself. The people get changed out, but government itself retains the assents and debts. You want bullshit? Look at all the revisionist history crammed down everyone's throats about us... We'll stop vilifying the White Man when they stop teaching all the other races that we were the badguys. Until then, "White" is going to be fighting word...

And the early 1980's isn't that ancient of history. There are examples of the government still trying to stamp out the Muscogee even then.

Because the white folks what adopted me are also dirt poor, asshole. If not for Haskell, college wouldn't've even been an option.

Well good for you mate. At least you had that option - because of your race. My dirt poor family had no special free white man aussie school they could send me. So instead I was home schooled for the first couple of years (apparently a tutor cost less). It wasn't until later, when work picked up for my dad and my mum started her own career, normal schooling became an affordable option.

There's a difference between the spoils of war, and outright theft. Do yo think that thieves should just be allowed to keep the stuff they take? That's the main point of contention. You'd be singing a different tune if someone hotwired your car and the police just laughed and said "tough luck", and people got indigent over you wanting your car back, because the thief has more of a right to it than you do...

If some scumbag stole my car, yes of course I would be pretty pissed off; if Indonesia decided to invade Australia and take away our homes and resources, yes I would still be pretty pissed off. Would the scum bag that took my care care? Would Indonesian care? No, why would they? They saw what they wanted/needed and took it for themselves. Of course it's wrong, and of course it's a fucked up human behaviour. But, hey, fast forward hundreds of years later where everyone alive during that time is long dead, and all of us that are here now have equally been born into this new country of ours, don't you think it's about time to let go of the past and live together without the recriminations?

Yeah, in the past, the evil white men came in and stole the land murdering a whole heap of natives in the process. The black man was angry, he fought back and lost. They deserved to be angry, and they should fight back like that did. It's the present now, the whole invasion thing is well and truly over. My people were the ones that stole the land, and as an ancestor to those white men I can't even get any of that land for free, or be compensated for an old house that once belonged to my great great grandfather and was burnt to the ground by a native. So why should a native be given something for free, and why should they be compensated for something that did not involve them a long, long time ago?

We were both raised in poor families, Vlad. By the sounds of it you had more options than I did because of your race. I didn't get anywhere where I am today because of the colour of my skin; I have worked my arse to be not poor. So all I am saying is how about we all equally work, earn and make a living for ourselves without the bitter bullshit of the past?

And I work my ass off to BE poor, and avoid being in debt... The problem is that the system here is broken, and in need of replacement. Hence the economic collapse that the rich and much of the middle class denied was going to happen, but was painfully obvious to those of us in the lower class... You'd think they'd learn from that... But noooo...

[Reed Teran]

What have I done....

[RedAuthar]

I have a personal hatred for those who stereotype caucasian or white as always being racist against everyone and never the victims.
According to history however, us poor Irish Americans (which i get from both sides of my family), were treated just as bad as the African Americans, no jobs, couldn't shop at certain places, and generally disliked by everyone.
Also, my slave holder ancestors freed all his slaves and sold his plantation, to buy more slaves who he than freed.

Racism, sexism, predjudism, they all really translate to disliking someone for being different than you.

[pacmancdi]

Well lets see... I'm an Italian man. I eat nothing but pizza and pasta, I have a very bad temper, I'm short, harry and chubby, and I wear a leather jacket almost everywhere I go.


I'd say I fit into stereotypes quite nicely

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Well, stereotypes are there for a reason. The only place I draw the line is offensive stereotypes in entertainment/socializing. (Like equating all Germans to Nazis, Skids and Mudflaps in Transformers 2, or these things.) Non-offensive stereotypes in media are just failed attempts at writing good characters/failing to relate to a person.

[Vlad Yvhv]

There ARE certain trends amongst various groups of people. Sometimes it's cultural, sometimes it's genetic. For example, roughly half of the remaining Muscogee are Baptist, stemming from the fact that it's the most similar religion to the Muscogeean religion. We also tend to like the summer and hate the winter, because the government sole Florida from us and relocated the tribe to Oklahoma. Whe'd been living in the Florida area since the effing ice age... And Native Americans in general tend to have problems with alcohol addiction, because our ancestors didn't invent or consume it, and thus, didn't build the tolerance to it that other races have. That's one of the reasons I never touch the stuff...

Some groups of Amish people can't consume alcohol at all, because they've bred out the gene that allows them to produce the enzymes that metabolize it.

Country folk have a predilection for driving trucks, because we have stuff to haul and drive on roads that'll tear up a car very quickly. We also tend to prefer Country music because it's generally about people like us. We have a tendency to hate rap and other more urban trends, because they don't make any sense. We tend to view "Redneck" as more of a unifying term. As a wise hat says: "Redneck is a lifestyle". And the man who made the term popular in modern usage defines it as "A gross lack of sophistication. It can be temporary or permanent.". Some folk may wonder "what's so bad about sophistication?". The answer is relatively simple: "It tends to make people who're better off think they're better than the rest of us". Sophistication leads to class structures, which leads to resentment between the classes. Lack of sophistication leads to stuff like demo derbies with high-end vehicles, and people unafraid to do the jobs that the illegal immigrants shy away from. The upper and middle classes often tend to forget that the world runs on the blood and sweat of the lower class...

[Reed Teran]

As freaky said, equating good germans like me to national socialist fascist scum is kinda wrong. Just because my grandpa was(and still is) a jewhater, why must I be one?
Kinda wrong, dontcha think?
And in reds case, I don't say it is just white americans. Other nationalities, even germans, point the finger at other kinds. I've heard fellow deutschische and deutsch loyalisten say things about america that would make Bush cry....

[chief]

I wouldn't say the Nazi party was scum. They had great idea's and in fact they are the main (if not only) reason Germany got out of the depression. Brilliant ideas. The holocaust wasn't exactly one of their brighter choices mind you.

Its actually interesting in all honesty. I'm a huge history buff and in that I like to know both sides of the story. Because of that I have, what my friends say, a unhealthy obsession with Nazi Germany. In all honesty I just find it extremely interesting. The political ideology is a rather interesting in all honesty. Brilliant just used the wrong thing to get that way.

By the way, was your Grandfather ever in Hitler Youth? Or perhaps he served in the military (depending how old he is). Basically there is a whole generation in Germany that grew up under the Nazi ideals. Following those ideals isn't hard considering the time period that generation grew up in.



Anyways basic point here is don;t be hard on your grandfather for his beliefs. Thinking you are a Nazi is dumb, but don't get after your grandfather because he shares the beliefs he was raised under.

[Vlad Yvhv]

I have to draw the line at stuff like defending the Nazis... That's getting into the "political correctness run amok" area... Pure BS. Yes, being all oppressive and brutal can be a VERY effective way of getting things done and making a nation strong and powerful... But that doesn't make those responsible good people. It often makes them very bad people... Sometimes you do have to fault people for what they believe, when what they believe is just plain wrong.

[chief]

Oh when it comes right down to it it was completely wrong, yes. In no way am I saying that it was right. Ive just seen the same thing with my friends grandfather. He was involved in Hitler youth since a child. Basically those views are beaten into your brain over a period of years. He was a interesting guy to talk to.

[Reed Teran]

Yes, grandpa was in the hitlerjugend. He said that initiation was....frightening.
The puppy thing kinda scares me.