58 replies to this topic

[chief]

Wait.... Why did they make them...Zombi-like?

[randomizer]

Wait.... Why did they make them...Zombi-like?

They're metal. They had to make them androids in an alternate reality because it was considered too violent with real humans. Granted, the game did have a lot of dismemberment, but I think it would have sufficed to just disable that out of the box...The game gave you the option of disabling it anyway.

[Reed Teran]

Ah, but halo stayed the same, so my childhood was preserved. Soldier of fortune was botched up quite so, but the things I played stayed the same: a few marios, 2 sonics, the halo series, and a modded version of katamari damacy.

[randomizer]

Ah, but halo stayed the same, so my childhood was preserved. Soldier of fortune was botched up quite so, but the things I played stayed the same: a few marios, 2 sonics, the halo series, and a modded version of katamari damacy.

Sonic should have been censored as well. It's incredibly violent to jump on someone's head and make them explode. Couldn't they have made it so that you politely ask your foes to move out of the way for you?

Censorship and those who seek to impose it are much fun to mock.

[Vlad Yvhv]

Screw you, this is my land now!



In all fairness I hate this race thing too. The past is the past, it sucks but we need to get over it. Yes, natives were treated badly, shitty. But I wasn't the one who did that. Just like how reedrevaliateran wasn't the one who killed the Jews. Its all past stuff.

In all fairness I hate the payouts we give the natives up here. I think its bullshit. Just like the reserves now, and how we keep making treaty's to be at peace with them and yadda yadda. Funny how all that money we give them does absolutely no good in the long run. They still live on the reserve in poverty, rotting houses and so on.

Its kinda funny. I live in a town with a large native population and a large reserve just out North. I also have a lot of native friends. Those natives who are doing well right now, have good jobs, good education etc all tell me the same thing. The only way to fix the problem is to stop supporting them. Get them to stand on their own two feet for the first time in generations and stop giving them everything. Thats the only way that the problems up here can be fixed. And thats not just my belief, but natives who got out of that shit system.

I'm all for preserving culture. I'm fascinated with the stuff myself. But living in rotting houses, not working, eating junk food, and waiting on the government cheque each month isn't helping the culture one bit.

I understand shit got screwed up when the Europeans came over here, but doing what we are doing now isn't helping it. I do not want to see my tax dollars go towards that bullshit any more. Its just like going after a guys great great great grand kids because he murdered your great great grandfather. Its dumb, its idiotic, and tossing random money at the problem isn't about to fix anything.


I'm not racist, I'm just sick of being blamed for some bull shit that happened in the past. I was born on this land, this land is mine, just as it is theirs.. I want to share it properly, I want to fix the fucking problem, and the best way to do that is to stop feeding random money, stop the fucking treaties, and live as equals while still preserving their culture. Hell its possible, my family is Scottish, we have Scottish culture. Think I live anywhere near Scotland? No.


Now saying all of this there are some things that I do think are right. Example the residential school payout. Now a lot of those people are still alive and that was a total dick move on the government's behalf. But whole we are at that.. Why not have the Roman Catholics pay out instead of the tax payers? I mean.. It was their system. Kinda feel ripped off that I'm paying it and the church isn't. But hey.. I do agree that they deserve something there.


Again I'm no racist.. I have a ton of native friends. But guess what? Wasn't my fault shit in the past went down (Hell, my family wasn't even here yet.. We are new bloods). Id like to stop tossing random money into something that doesn't work. You know..maybe put my tax money into better programs that can benefit us all.

I would love to just be equal with everyone... Just.. That's not going to happen any time soon sadly. Not in our word. For some dumb reason race means way too much.

/end rant.

We're talking about different countries with different policies and different situations... Down here, you effing lucky if your tribe gets any sort of money from the government. It's actually quite rare. And the reservations are usually cut off from stuff like government aid. Our government is quite bad about hoarding all the money for themselves, and then claiming they spent it on a toilet seat. Many, tribes have gone extinct waiting on what the government promised them. Y'know how they got the Muscogee land? They basically took aside some of them, declared them to be a different tribe, and said they were at war with the rest of us, because that fulfilled a loophole in the tribe's treaty with the government. Most of us ARE on our own. But we also have the BIA, which is set up to screw us over in a number of ways. Typically, any real benefits we do get come from obscure little bits and pieces of state law, and can be a real pain in the ass to track down and pursue. And tribal healthcare systems tend to be real jokes. If you had a serious condition, you'd be dead long before you got through the red tape...

I spent a couple of summers with our church on a mission trip to a reservation outside of Omaha. They get no government aid. No housing. No water. No food. Nothing from the government. And there are no local employers. Their housing and supplies come from donations from the churches in the area. It's not that they don't want to work. It's that there is no work within their ability to travel, or that when there is work, they lack the skills or education to get the jobs. Education isn't free. "Education" may be, but it isn't anywhere near the standard of education that's expected by actual schools. I spend 1.5 years at Haskell Indian Nations University. It's a total joke. They don't have enough funding to get or keep teachers for any but the basic classes, and generally don't even have enough books for the classes they do have. If I'd decided to try to stick it out, I'd probly still be there, trying to scrape together some semblance of an education... The housing wasn't up to par, either. The last winter I was there, they couldn't cut the red tape to get the heaters turned on at all, during the winter. And it was a very, very cold, icy winter that year...

I can understand your gripe about constant compensation. There is, indeed, a limit to each debt. But debt isn't erased simply through time. It has to be repaid. And the US government is more likely to find a way to kill you than to pay off a dept to you... And then charge your relatives for having done so.

[Reed Teran]

I don't see why the government of your country gives the natives money. As far as I know, they grow their own foods and they supply themselves, so what need would they have for american dollars? Fuel for fires?
And randomizer, they didn't censor sonic labrynth and sonic spinball, since you only collect keys and emeralds in both. But I came here, and played the rest. All I was concerned about at the time was halo, since I grew up on gaming and as soon as the first one came out, I bought an xbox. Thankfully, germany only altered some language and the way Cortana looked. So I was happy.

[randomizer]

All I was concerned about at the time was halo, since I grew up on gaming and as soon as the first one came out, I bought an xbox. Thankfully, germany only altered some language and the way Cortana looked. So I was happy.

She was too "sexy"? Just to be clear, I have nothing against Germany, just ridiculous German (in fact, all) censors. You guys have Lebkuchen... that almost makes up for it!

We have our own morons doing it here too. One of them holds an office.

[Reed Teran]

The good thing is, I'm here now. I only return to the Homeland for Wunderkind meetings, visiting Onkel Otto, and Oktoberfest...its way better there than here, oktoberfest. We drink much more and much longer, and as long as you can put your hands flat on a bar, you can drink. I drank my first schnapps at 12....I still have schnapps left over from last oktoberfest.

[John Roberts]

I have never understood the concept of compensating or repaying what was taken away from natives. In Australia we have the Aborigines whose home and land our ancestors came and claimed for themselves. I'm kind of sorry for how it all happened, what with all the killing and stuff, but I can never be sorry for taking their land. I probably would not exist today if that land was not taken, so I find it very hard to be sorry for that. A lot of people are born with the short end of the stick, but it seems if you happen to be a native of your country you'll get special treatment for it; where as the rest of us have to fight tooth and nail for similar compensations. I want a house? Well then, I better get a job and earn in and pay all the land taxes. But if I was black I could get a free house, no taxes, a pension, and no intensive whatsoever to get a job. As Paul said, that divide between cultures will never disappear as long as the 'them and us' mentality keeps on happening from the Government throwing money at this 'problem'.

Education isn't free. "Education" may be, but it isn't anywhere near the standard of education that's expected by actual schools. I spend 1.5 years at Haskell Indian Nations University. It's a total joke. They don't have enough funding to get or keep teachers for any but the basic classes, and generally don't even have enough books for the classes they do have.

Why couldn't you go to a, for a lack of better word, normal school then? Why does it have to be a special Indian school?

We have our own morons doing it here too. One of them holds an office.

Never fear! Censorship is about to change with the recent news of R rating video games almost getting the green light in Australia. Wanna know the catch though? They're talking about abolishing the MA15 rating. So, games will go from G, PG to R18.

..uhhh?

[Reed Teran]

Oh, the only good thing about German Halo 2 is hearing the german version of johnsons monologue when you start the outskirts level...first, I was like O_O and then I lold.

[chief]

Its actually kinda funny John. I was watching a program last night comparing Australia's Aboriginal situation and our Native one. The problems were the same and the government decided that tossing money at it was the best way. Both had exports from each type. Native exports who were yes, native. Same goes with a few aboriginal exports. Both groups said paying for everything doesn't and will not make their living conditions better in some of these towns. The best way to help them is to just force them to stand on their two feet and do everything. Generations of getting stuff handed to you doesn't help one bit.

But its also like how the natives get "incentives" to do things here. For example they can qualify to get paid for attending high school. I mean seriously, THEY get PAID for graduating. I graduated, where's my money? Not to mention free post secondary schooling. I'm still paying off my school debt.. Wasn't was not free for me.

As John said.. You will never be equals as long as one gets something the other doesn't. Tossing money at the problems just doesn't help it. You aren't making the natives equal with the rest of us. Not one bit.

What should be done is this "Listen, here is a school. Go there. Learn. Work your ass off. Go to college. Get a good Job. Buy a house. Have a family. ---- Repeat." Just like the rest of us.

[MistressAli]

[quote]name='John Roberts' timestamp='1308623939' post='51295']
I have never understood the concept of compensating or repaying what was taken away from natives. In Australia we have the Aborigines whose home and land our ancestors came and claimed for themselves. I'm kind of sorry for how it all happened, what with all the killing and stuff, but I can never be sorry for taking their land. I probably would not exist today if that land was not taken, so I find it very hard to be sorry for that. A lot of people are born with the short end of the stick, but it seems if you happen to be a native of your country you'll get special treatment for it; where as the rest of us have to fight tooth and nail for similar compensations. I want a house? Well then, I better get a job and earn in and pay all the land taxes. But if I was black I could get a free house, no taxes, a pension, and no intensive whatsoever to get a job. As Paul said, that divide between cultures will never disappear as long as the 'them and us' mentality keeps on happening from the Government throwing money at this 'problem'.[/quote]

I totally agree with you, John. I don't think repaying is helping anything, because giving people free money just makes lazy people, and, no matter how much is repaid, someone will always claim it isn't enough.
I feel bad about what happened to the Native Americans. It was shitty and not fair. But over history, many cultures have been overtaken and even outright destroyed by other ones. That's just how humans are. They've done it in the past, they will probably do it in the future. Money isn't going to help preserve lost culture... passing down those traditions and stories, while living in the modern world IS.
And honestly, those who complain about being victims of this and that in history aren't innocent either. Native Americans tribes warred with each other, killed each other off, and I'm sure they tried to overtake each other's territories. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see enemies just letting enemies use up all the area's resources ) It's the same thing with some blacks...the ones who use the slavery-race card, as if slavery was something that happened to them last week...
The white man weren't the only ones who screwed you over... but Africans did too. Warring African tribes sold their fellow black brethren to the slave traders. But no blacks today had anything to do with that, and no whites did either. Just let it go and live in the world as it is now. Carrying over these old grudges is just foolish. Women were abused and oppressed in the past too, by men... yet am I blaming every man alive for the shit they did to my ancestors?
Humans are humans... we are all capable of shitty acts and the laying blame game is just another shitty action.

[randomizer]

When do we get to discuss illegal immigrants?

[John Roberts]

*waves a huge hi to Ali!*

When do we get to discuss illegal immigrants?

"illegal immigrant is a contradiction in terms. You can't be both. If you're an immigrant, welcome; if you're not, fuck off." - From the wise words of Kevin Wilson.

[randomizer]

Perhaps "illegal entrant" or "illegal oxygen sink" is preferable to you?

[Reed Teran]

(Arms the Really Huge Big Shiny Satellite Laser Cannon) okay, no illegals in the fatherland, seriously. We will shoot.

[Inhibitor]

I have a christian black friend who is blamed for everything just because he's the only black in the house!

I'm actually on the same page as your friend. Being African american its hard not to get discriminated time to time. But simply put, its ignorance. People think they're higher and above everyone else and discriminate others to make them feel better. It's sad, really, because they're no different than us. No matter which nationality or complexion, we're all created equal, and the people of certain nationalities that have committed crimes in the past should have NO effect of the people of today. Its just stupid, idiotic, senseless racism.

And then there's the media that portrays certain races stereotypically. *cough*House of Payne*cough*

[Vlad Yvhv]

[quote name='John Roberts' timestamp='1308623939' post='51295']
I have never understood the concept of compensating or repaying what was taken away from natives.
[/quote]
As I mentioned previously, in the US, it's largely a problem of the government reneging on their contracts and failing in their genocide attempt. They owe debts and have no intentions of paying them. It'd be a lot like if I agreed to buy your house and signed the contract to that effect, then just killed your and kicked out anyone else living there out and took their stuff and sold it, and seized all of their assets. Then, sold the house to someone who didn't give a damn about the fact that it was still legally your family's property. And nobody's going to help them, because it's their own damned fault or letting me in the door.

[quote name='John Roberts' timestamp='1308623939' post='51295']
[quote] Education isn't free. "Education" may be, but it isn't anywhere near the standard of education that's expected by actual schools. I spend 1.5 years at Haskell Indian Nations University. It's a total joke. They don't have enough funding to get or keep teachers for any but the basic classes, and generally don't even have enough books for the classes they do have.[/quote]
Why couldn't you go to a, for a lack of better word, normal school then? Why does it have to be a special Indian school?
[/quote]
Because the white folks what adopted me are also dirt poor, asshole. If not for Haskell, college wouldn't've even been an option. It's discrimination against the poor, regardless of race. It's a catch 22. If you're not well enough off, you don't have the resources to even try to climb the social ladder... The rich folks took a chainsaw and cut the bottom rungs off. We need a new ladder...

[quote name='MistressAli' timestamp='1308630254' post='51302']
[quote]name='John Roberts' timestamp='1308623939' post='51295']
I have never understood the concept of compensating or repaying what was taken away from natives. In Australia we have the Aborigines whose home and land our ancestors came and claimed for themselves. I'm kind of sorry for how it all happened, what with all the killing and stuff, but I can never be sorry for taking their land. I probably would not exist today if that land was not taken, so I find it very hard to be sorry for that. A lot of people are born with the short end of the stick, but it seems if you happen to be a native of your country you'll get special treatment for it; where as the rest of us have to fight tooth and nail for similar compensations. I want a house? Well then, I better get a job and earn in and pay all the land taxes. But if I was black I could get a free house, no taxes, a pension, and no intensive whatsoever to get a job. As Paul said, that divide between cultures will never disappear as long as the 'them and us' mentality keeps on happening from the Government throwing money at this 'problem'.[/quote]

I totally agree with you, John. I don't think repaying is helping anything, because giving people free money just makes lazy people, and, no matter how much is repaid, someone will always claim it isn't enough.
I feel bad about what happened to the Native Americans. It was shitty and not fair. But over history, many cultures have been overtaken and even outright destroyed by other ones. That's just how humans are. They've done it in the past, they will probably do it in the future. Money isn't going to help preserve lost culture... passing down those traditions and stories, while living in the modern world IS.
And honestly, those who complain about being victims of this and that in history aren't innocent either. Native Americans tribes warred with each other, killed each other off, and I'm sure they tried to overtake each other's territories. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see enemies just letting enemies use up all the area's resources ) It's the same thing with some blacks...the ones who use the slavery-race card, as if slavery was something that happened to them last week...
The white man weren't the only ones who screwed you over... but Africans did too. Warring African tribes sold their fellow black brethren to the slave traders. But no blacks today had anything to do with that, and no whites did either. Just let it go and live in the world as it is now. Carrying over these old grudges is just foolish. Women were abused and oppressed in the past too, by men... yet am I blaming every man alive for the shit they did to my ancestors?
Humans are humans... we are all capable of shitty acts and the laying blame game is just another shitty action.
[/quote]
Pay more attention to actual history... There's a difference between the spoils of war, and outright theft. Do yo think that thieves should just be allowed to keep the stuff they take? That's the main point of contention. You'd be singing a different tune if someone hotwired your car and the police just laughed and said "tough luck", and people got indigent over you wanting your car back, because the thief has more of a right to it than you do...

[chief]

Its more to the point of the past though. Myself and Ali for the Natives and John for the Aboriginals. We stole no land. Goes back to the point I made earlier about going after some guy cause his great great grandfather killed your great great grandfather. For your case its if someone stole your great great grandfathers car. Then its somehow right to get money from all his great great grandchildren.

I understand whats going on in America is different from whats going on in Canada. However as long as YOU keep putting "white man stole our land bla bla bla" you will never get equality. This isn't the days of Cowboys and Indians anymore. This is a fully connected world. You get mad at the white man coming here but look at fucking history. The Romans took over Europe, no one gives a rats ass now. The past is the past. That's it. Shit happened back then, fucked stuff up. Ooops. Thats the way it was. ALL OVER! It wasn't just America and Australia that got invaded, everywhere got taken over by someone at one time or another. So yes, I am sick of hearing the shit about the evil white man. I'm fucking sorry for what some white people did back in the day. Boo fucking woo. Its not my fault. I didn't choose it. And for all I care I think its a big fucking rip off that I pay for it. If you get down and dirty with it its just reverse racism and thats all there is too it. "Your white! Your the bad guy!". Bull shit.

[John Roberts]

Because the white folks what adopted me are also dirt poor, asshole. If not for Haskell, college wouldn't've even been an option.

Well good for you mate. At least you had that option - because of your race. My dirt poor family had no special free white man aussie school they could send me. So instead I was home schooled for the first couple of years (apparently a tutor cost less). It wasn't until later, when work picked up for my dad and my mum started her own career, normal schooling became an affordable option.

There's a difference between the spoils of war, and outright theft. Do yo think that thieves should just be allowed to keep the stuff they take? That's the main point of contention. You'd be singing a different tune if someone hotwired your car and the police just laughed and said "tough luck", and people got indigent over you wanting your car back, because the thief has more of a right to it than you do...

If some scumbag stole my car, yes of course I would be pretty pissed off; if Indonesia decided to invade Australia and take away our homes and resources, yes I would still be pretty pissed off. Would the scum bag that took my care care? Would Indonesian care? No, why would they? They saw what they wanted/needed and took it for themselves. Of course it's wrong, and of course it's a fucked up human behaviour. But, hey, fast forward hundreds of years later where everyone alive during that time is long dead, and all of us that are here now have equally been born into this new country of ours, don't you think it's about time to let go of the past and live together without the recriminations?

Yeah, in the past, the evil white men came in and stole the land murdering a whole heap of natives in the process. The black man was angry, he fought back and lost. They deserved to be angry, and they should fight back like that did. It's the present now, the whole invasion thing is well and truly over. My people were the ones that stole the land, and as an ancestor to those white men I can't even get any of that land for free, or be compensated for an old house that once belonged to my great great grandfather and was burnt to the ground by a native. So why should a native be given something for free, and why should they be compensated for something that did not involve them a long, long time ago?

We were both raised in poor families, Vlad. By the sounds of it you had more options than I did because of your race. I didn't get anywhere where I am today because of the colour of my skin; I have worked my arse to be not poor. So all I am saying is how about we all equally work, earn and make a living for ourselves without the bitter bullshit of the past?