17 replies to this topic

[chief]

There have been a lot of topics on new Sonic shows. Those topics mainly revolve around simple topics like "What would you base your Sonic show off of?" and "Would you watch another SatAM?" or pretty much anything similar to that. However one question I think that needs to be answered before any new show, or movie comes into play is is Sonic popular enough?

Sure SEGA still tosses out Sonic games every year basically, right now everyone is looking foreword to Sonic Geberations (Or whatever its release title will be). And who can blame them, a new twist on the old platforming games? Awesome.

But lets be honest.. Does Sonic have the fan base to pull off a actual TV show? Back when AoStH, SatAM, and Underground were released Sonic had a fairly strong young audience. With AoStH and SatAM SEGA had the genesis still and pretty much anyone who owned that had a Sonic game. Making a cartoon targeting the audience group was quite a simple thing. Not to mention the amount of Sonic merchandise, shirts, bed spreads, shorts, shoes, yadda yadda the list goes on. Almost every kid had something Sonic related.


Jump foreword to today. Sure a lot of those kids grew up and still enjoy the old cartoons (take us for example), however is that it? When you look at the younger audience for Sonic games and stuff today they do not seem as into it as our generation. Sure they like the games and play them, but the Sonic game today is just that. A simple Sonic game that can be tossed into the pile with all the other games kids own. You play it, you beat it, you are done. Sonic truly doesn't hold the popularity where it counts and for this very reason I find it extremely hard for any new Sonic show to survive.

A movie might do well however. Jump foreword to now and we see Eddie working on a Sonic film. One which has a lot of hype behind it. However when you look at where all that hype is coming from, its all people in their late teens into their 20's. Again, not the target group for a cartoon show.


Anyways I would like to hear your thoughts on all of this.

[PuffinGrandeur]

He does. Sonic X was extremely popular, even in reruns.

[Bakuda]

You make some very valid points there. I remember when I was young and Sonic had just come out. It's like he was the definition of cool. Every Saturday my cousins and I would watch Sonic on tv because....HE WAS COOL MAN! Sega created quite the popular character. But I do agree with you that the popularity is nowhere near what it used to be. I think sega relied a little too much on Sonic's popularity and when a new generations of kids came around Sonic wasn't as cool as he used to be. However, despite this I still believe the character of Sonic has what it takes to pull together a very good movie, game, or even TV show. But in order to be successful Sega would have to go back to the drawing board. Take a look at what Eddie is doing. He's taking the character of Sonic and doing something with him that's never been done before. That's the kind of approach Sega will have to take when working with Sonic in the future. And I believe this generations project is the beginning of that. Right from the get go we can see this isn't going to be "just another Sonic game". Again, this is a good start, but they need to continue working to keep things fresh. Oh...and it would help to start getting better plot ideas...you know...something better than Eggman creates an evil amusement park.....

[Juice16]

Oh...and it would help to start getting better plot ideas...you know...something better than Eggman creates an evil amusement park.....

Yeah, it does seem lately that Sega's plot ideas are a bit lacking. The last serious plot for Sonic (although there were many plot-holes), was Sonic 2006. I thought I heard somewhere that the Team that designed 06 was fired for the "Outstanding" job they did, but I'm not sure. Right after that I think we got Sonic and the Secret Rings and from there the stories became less and less serious.

It's times like these where I ask, why don't you do what you did for the plot of SA2, because I think it's the best 3D Sonic game plot Sega has made, along with the many other things that were done right in that game.

The plot for Sonic Generations does seem promising so hopefully Sega finally hired someone who can write a decent plot.

[LaserX5]

My personal opinion is Sonic has lost alot of his popularity in the last ten years. After Sega suffered financial turmoil, they seemed to drag their mascot down with them. But IMO, what dragged Sonic down more than anything was Sega trying to copycat Nintendo. I don't care who you are, when you start using ideas from a rival instead of coming up with original material, your product will suffer. Fans of video games aren't so naive that they don't know when a company is trying to cut corners.

He does. Sonic X was extremely popular, even in reruns.

I don't see how that show could have been popular at all in the US when I really think about it. The 4kids dub was an absolute joke. It was like they weren't even trying to make it good. It was so dumbed down from the Japanese version, it was downright insulting.

DIC to their credit at least put more effort into their Sonic shows than 4Kids ever did.

[PuffinGrandeur]

Kids love Sonic, and the games sell like gangbusters. Do try and remember that just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the franchise is dead sales-wise or popularity-wise. It's actually impressive that the franchise has dug itself from so far out of the ground with titles like Shadow and 06 to their name.

[saber16]

With all the stories Archie, Dic and the games have come up with, there's potential for a good Sonic series... the problem is how... over the place all of the stories are from one another. If someone sat down and constructed a story that balanced all the good aspects of the characters history, there is a chance for a good television show or film.

[LaserX5]

Kids love Sonic, and the games sell like gangbusters. Do try and remember that just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the franchise is dead sales-wise or popularity-wise. It's actually impressive that the franchise has dug itself from so far out of the ground with titles like Shadow and 06 to their name.

Kids love junk food too. Does that mean they should be fed that on daily basis?

Besides, the 4Kids Dub is so watered down, it takes out alot of the epic moments this show had.

Just do a comparison of the Japanese version compared to theirs.

A complete difference, especially when I hear pathetic lines like, "I don't like the way you attacked Chris and Cosmo. It's one thing to take them prisoner and threaten them, that's going too far."

Anyway, I never said the Sonic franchise was dead. I said Sonic has lost his popularity from his earlier days, and that is true.

The best times of Sonic IMO was during the 90's, when he was on the Genesis, all the way up to Sonic Adventure 2. After that, the Sonic games never had the same feel to them.

I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way.

[PuffinGrandeur]

That's nice, but none of it actually addresses the point except "Sonic lost his popularity," which you're still basing on personal anecdotes instead of numbers or facts. He's not quite the super-mega-ultra-star of the 90's, but he's still INCREDIBLY popular.

Again: your opinion of its quality is not the same as its actual popularity or sales numbers. It doesn't matter that you think it's bad, or even if it is bad in this case. That doesn't make the franchise unpopular. Rants on how it sucks are entirely irrelevant.

[LaserX5]

That's nice, but none of it actually addresses the point except "Sonic lost his popularity," which you're still basing on personal anecdotes instead of numbers or facts. He's not quite the super-mega-ultra-star of the 90's, but he's still INCREDIBLY popular.

When Sonic used to be a serious challenge to Mario's popularity, but isn't anymore, uh, that to me is a clear sign he has lost popularity. I didn't say he lost it all, but he is now miles behind the Italian plumber.

Again: your opinion of its quality is not the same as its actual popularity or sales numbers. It doesn't matter that you think it's bad, or even if it is bad in this case. That doesn't make the franchise unpopular. Rants on how it sucks are entirely irrelevant.

While this is just my opinion and I could be mistaken about some things, it's not totally irreverent, especially when I see Sega has to basically beg for Nintendo's help at times to make any good games anymore. That's the only reason they have any solid sales at all IMHO.

When they have to borrow ideas from blockbuster games like Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy, that shows me Sega has lost its edge it had during the 90's.

[chief]

Yeah I gotta say we aren't basing Sonic's lost popularity on just "our personal opinion". If anything I would say you are basing it on personal opinion.

Some key facts that (some already pointed out) is Sonic vs Mario. Before there use to be a pretty good rivalry going on between the two. SEGA made Sonic to take down Mario and Sonic did a good job at getting under Nintendo's skin. Now? Now most kids (guess what, I have a daughter..Granted she doesnt play video games yet but I have other friends with older kids who do) would rather pick up a Mario game then a Sonic one.

Sonic is still popular but not anywhere close to what he was.

Another clear sign is lack of merchandise. When is the last time you saw a bunch of kids wearing Sonic shirts? Or SEGA shirts for that matter. Been a damn long time since Ive seen any of that.


Sonic X was good for kids, I'll admit that. Kids did like it, even with 4kids (or whoever it was) dubbing it. However that was quite a few years ago. Also Sonic X's popularity wasn't up there where other Sonic shows, or games were. It was just sorta there.


Sure Sonic is still around, sure kids love Sonic, but not to the extent they use too. I agree with the argument that after SEGA went broke and went out of the console war they pulled Sonic under with that. A big thing that keeps Mario up there is he represents Nintendo. When you think of a Nintendo system (doesn't matter what game you are playing) normally Mario isn't far behind in your thoughts. Nintendo is Mario, and Mario is Nintendo.

Same thing with Sonic. When you thought of your Genesis, you thought of Sonic. It was a big thing. SEGA was a big company back in the day and the console war kept them up top and kept Sonic up there too. After that crashed the only thing to remind people (even kids) of Sonic was some games and a few TV shows. Those are still popular but the thought of Sonic isn't driven into your head each time you plug in your game system.



Sonic's not gone, and in till SEGA dies off he will still stick around. But all in all Sonic's overall popularity depends on what SEGA does as a company. If SEGA made another console (which they won't) I'm sure you would see a huge spike in Sonic's popularity. However.. right now Sonic is just the mascot for a simple game making company. Granted a bit more out there from past endeavours but still nothing big these days.

[Juice16]

Another clear sign is lack of merchandise. When is the last time you saw a bunch of kids wearing Sonic shirts? Or SEGA shirts for that matter. Been a damn long time since Ive seen any of that.

Nintendo has definetly played the merchandise game well considering that you can buy a box of Mario fruit snacks at the grocery store. I've seen a few Sonic shirts at my school, but there always seems to be five Nintendo ones before I see a Sonic one.

[supafue]

Sonic X has the benefit of airing on the CW4kids.

While the 4kids version of Sonic X may have a certain reputation, it also gave the show a very good airing time.

A big thing that keeps Mario up there is he represents Nintendo. When you think of a Nintendo system (doesn't matter what game you are playing) normally Mario isn't far behind in your thoughts. Nintendo is Mario, and Mario is Nintendo.

not just that. Mario also has the advantage of "word of mouth." Super Mario Galaxy's love from fellow gamers is advertising in it's own way. With modern Sonic games, Sega actually has to COUNTER "word of mouth" to get the games to sell.

Kids love Sonic, and the games sell like gangbusters.

No they don't. And the games only "sell" on Nintendo Wii around Christmas time or launches. The Sonic games that release outside the "Holiday Season" don't even sell that much. Semi-decent at best, and that's just the Wii release. At this point, the Sonic series isn't what you'd even consider "popular" when sales are reliant on holiday season releases.

Since that is the case, it seems more like whatever sales Sonic gets is from parents doing random holiday shopping. That sure as heck isn't what one would consider popular. It is really insulting that it's come to this with Sonic (insulting of course, for those that were Sonic fans during the golden days.) The moment Sega released a Sonic Rush game outside the holiday schedule, it flopped.

At this point, Sonic is not much more popular than a rock painted "red and white" in December. Parents may get it as a random christmas gift, but that's all there is to it. The fact that it is so rare to find someone referencing modern-Sonic these days is evident enough that currently... Sonic is not VERY popular anymore. Sega is WELL AWARE of it, and that is why they were so determined to release Sonic 06 in the Christmas season.

But even with the Wii holiday releases, sales speed from Sonic and the Secret Rings to Sonic Colors has steadily decreased. Less and less gamers even want to buy Sonic games every year.

[LaserX5]

Sonic X has the benefit of airing on the CW4kids.

While the 4kids version of Sonic X may have a certain reputation, it also gave the show a very good airing time.

How sad Sonic Satam never got that privilege. That show really got the shaft compared to this one.

With modern Sonic games, Sega actually has to COUNTER "word of mouth" to get the games to sell.

Not to mention anyone who plays one of the recent Sega games, such as Sonic Colors for example, can clearly see they used ideas from Super Mario Galaxy. Yea, not the best of ideas IMO.

No they don't. And the games only "sell" on Nintendo Wii around Christmas time or launches. The Sonic games that release outside the "Holiday Season" don't even sell that much. Semi-decent at best, and that's just the Wii release. At this point, the Sonic series isn't what you'd even consider "popular" when sales are reliant on holiday season releases.

Since that is the case, it seems more like whatever sales Sonic gets is from parents doing random holiday shopping. That sure as heck isn't what one would consider popular. It is really insulting that it's come to this with Sonic (insulting of course, for those that were Sonic fans during the golden days.) The moment Sega released a Sonic Rush game outside the holiday schedule, it flopped.

At this point, Sonic is not much more popular than a rock painted "red and white" in December. Parents may get it as a random Christmas gift, but that's all there is to it. The fact that it is so rare to find someone referencing modern-Sonic these days is evident enough that currently... Sonic is not VERY popular anymore. Sega is WELL AWARE of it, and that is why they were so determined to release Sonic 06 in the Christmas season.

But even with the Wii holiday releases, sales speed from Sonic and the Secret Rings to Sonic Colors has steadily decreased. Less and less gamers even want to buy Sonic games every year.

Really? I should look up sales numbers compared to the Mario titles to verify this. If that is indeed true, Sonic fans should demand change from Sega, but I doubt they'll get it.

[PuffinGrandeur]

Not to mention anyone who plays one of the recent Sega games, such as Sonic Colors for example, can clearly see they used ideas from Super Mario Galaxy. Yea, not the best of ideas IMO.

Actually Colors did better critically than past games and had much better word of mouth, so it seems to be working. But I'll just stay quiet about more before I get into more hyperbole.

[LogiTeeka]

Although the series has been going downhill, a few of the games had redeeming qualities.

"Sonic Heroes" was alright. It had nice graphics, colorful levels, a cool soundtrack, and it brought back the Chaotix Team (most of them); but it suffered from clunky game-play, sensitive controls, bad dialog, and the pointless return of Shadow and Metal Sonic.

"Sonic Unleashed" was better. It had beautiful graphics, better controls, and the daytime stages were awesome! I also loved the Pixar-style atmosphere and characters, and how you could explore the planet's landmarks and cities. Unfortunately, the pointless (yet interesting) werehog game-play ruined the game's reputation.

"Shadow the Hedgehog" and "Sonic '06", however, were bad misfires that Sega tried testing. There was nothing redeemable about these games (except for the soundtracks).

In other words, Sega still cares about their iconic character. They just need to go back and find the correct path to travel. And their upcoming "Generations" game proves it.

[LaserX5]

In other words, Sega still cares about their iconic character. They just need to go back and find the correct path to travel. And their upcoming "Generations" game proves it.

There's a chance you might be right about this.

Although, the fact they can't come up original material for their mascot kinda makes me think otherwise.

[leenaz12]

I too must say that Sonic X was extremely popular, even in reruns.