58 replies to this topic

[chalcara]

Bah.

The best Robotnik is AoStH's one. Now THERE was a voice actor that enjoyed himself.

[DLTN]

Pingas? That look was used for the Fleetway Robotnik too, but he was also warped and evil like Julian.

[chalcara]

Fleetway Robotnik... was all over the place in the beginning and more Eggman than evil (they even used the sega design!) before he actually beat Sonic and took over the world, forcing later into the la-resistence. That was a fun issue. Too bad Fleetway R. missed that oppertunity to actually empty a few bullet clips into Sonic's body.

And well, going completly batshit insane in the end didn't help either. At least he managed to actually KILL one of the FF's.


See, this is something I do not understand with the Robotniks. Sonic has to escape unscathed all the time, so propability actually is on the Robotnik's side. They have to get lucky just once. JUST ONCE. Put a bullet in their head! Issue fixed!

As creepy as SatAM was, I always knew Sonic had to escape unscathed and so would every important character. And if you were named but freshly introduced new in this ep, you were most likely roboticiser fodder, a cheap way to give the illusion of danger. Don't get me wrong, I liked the show and I loved watching Robotnik being all menacing - but the danger's never been there, at least for me.

Even Fleetway only pulled out all the stops when they knew they'd get cancelled.

Status Quo. It's a worse enemy than Robotnik ever could be.

[LaserX5]

See, this is something I do not understand with the Robotniks. Sonic has to escape unscathed all the time, so propability actually is on the Robotnik's side. They have to get lucky just once. JUST ONCE. Put a bullet in their head! Issue fixed!

While that's true, it isn't in Robotnik to go for the quick kill. As I saw in both AOSTH and Satam, he preferred for Sonic to suffer greatly before meeting his demise. A bullet wouldn't give him that satisfaction.

As creepy as SatAM was, I always knew Sonic had to escape unscathed and so would every important character. And if you were named but freshly introduced new in this ep, you were most likely roboticizer fodder, a cheap way to give the illusion of danger. Don't get me wrong, I liked the show and I loved watching Robotnik being all menacing - but the danger's never been there, at least for me.

Yea, I kinda know what you mean. It was a kid's show though, so they couldn't really show mature drama like I would have liked, such as ending up with battle scars and such.

On the other hand, the main characters have to escape unscathed for most part because they are the main contributors. Losing one of them, unless it was temporary would be a huge kick in the gut to the Sonic Satam fans. Although, I will admit I wish there were episodes that had cliffhangers of Sonic, or maybe even Sally, Bunnie and Tails caught in a trap, and it would say to be continued, to at least give the illusion that perhaps they might not escape from this trap, and could end up roboticized.

[Bakuda]

Yea, I kinda know what you mean. It was a kid's show though, so they couldn't really show mature drama like I would have liked, such as ending up with battle scars and such.

On the other hand, the main characters have to escape unscathed for most part because they are the main contributors. Losing one of them, unless it was temporary would be a huge kick in the gut to the Sonic Satam fans. Although, I will admit I wish there were episodes that had cliffhangers of Sonic, or maybe even Sally, Bunnie and Tails caught in a trap, and it would say to be continued, to at least give the illusion that perhaps they might not escape from this trap, and could end up roboticized.

Cliffhangers would've been nice...but the director of the show was very explicit that he wanted every episode to be independent from each other so one could watch any episode without having seen the others and have a general idea of what's going on. The only exception to that was blast to the past (thank you Hurst!). But that kind of setup was standard for a kids show in the early 90's. Done today I'm sure it would turn out much different.

[LaserX5]

In a way though, I'm glad it wasn't done today, because most animated shows made today are total crap. Sonic X is a good example of this.

But yea, I guess having each episode stand on its own legs wasn't a horrible idea, just not one that should have been for every episode.

It's too bad we didn't get more 2 parters or even 3 parters episodes. Sometimes, those are some of the best ones out there. But, what's done is done I suppose.

[Bakuda]

In a way though, I'm glad it wasn't done today, because most animated shows made today are total crap. Sonic X is a good example of this.

But yea, I guess having each episode stand on its own legs wasn't a horrible idea, just not one that should have been for every episode.

It's too bad we didn't get more 2 parters or even 3 parters episodes. Sometimes, those are some of the best ones out there. But, what's done is done I suppose.

I completely agree with you. Today animation isn't about how good you can make it but how quick, cheap, and easy you can make it. After all...kids don't know the difference...right???

[chalcara]

In a way though, I'm glad it wasn't done today, because most animated shows made today are total crap. Sonic X is a good example of this.

But yea, I guess having each episode stand on its own legs wasn't a horrible idea, just not one that should have been for every episode.

It's too bad we didn't get more 2 parters or even 3 parters episodes. Sometimes, those are some of the best ones out there. But, what's done is done I suppose.

I completely agree with you. Today animation isn't about how good you can make it but how quick, cheap, and easy you can make it. After all...kids don't know the difference...right???

I can't decide if that's sarcastic or not, Bakuda. I mean, have you seen the qualities of thundercats, reboot, she-ra or all those other 80s show? Including the thousand rip-offs "group of kids with talking animals"? I admit, I absolutly loved watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but today I cannot even rewatch it without being emberassed at how silly and crappy it partly was.

It's not today's animation that has those problems. It's just that yesterdays is a) seen through a pair of "the past is always better" goggles and that only the above average crap doesn't die in quiet obscurity.

And as much as I like SatAM, it's animation quality ain't that good either.

[Massagraf]

Regarding cartoons, nobody will deny that, as the endless cliché goes, "they don't make them like they used to".

The only problem is people tend to see this as a bad thing.

Anybody who claimes all new cartoons suck yet doesn't recognize the lyrics: "There's a hundred and four days of summer vacation", oh boy, you've been missing out big time.

On-topic though, comparing AoStH Robotnik with SatAM Robotnik, they are both very entertaining in their own way of evil (over the top silly evil and over the top serious evil). AoStH really isn't that bad when you focus on his character, it's a blast of fun. Everything else is forgetable though.

[DCC]

I was fine with not having the feeling that Sonic or his friends were in real danger and would walk again unhurt because I became attached, start to like most of the characters quickly. It beats the feeling I get from Archie, worrying that characters like Sally are going to be killed off becasue people will talk about how it would be such a wounderful story and that Sega doesn't really like Sally.

[LaserX5]

I was fine with not having the feeling that Sonic or his friends were in real danger and would walk again unhurt because I became attached, start to like most of the characters quickly. It beats the feeling I get from Archie, worrying that characters like Sally are going to be killed off because people will talk about how it would be such a wonderful story and that Sega doesn't really like Sally.

I know what you mean.

It's really sad and sickening that Sally gets such hate from Sonic fans, whom I believe are mostly diehard Sonamy fans.

Anybody who claims all new cartoons suck yet doesn't recognize the lyrics: "There's a hundred and four days of summer vacation", oh boy, you've been missing out big time.

Yea, I've seen that show. I will admit, it is decent at times. Although, it does seem to get repetitive alot, as well have things in it that make absolutely no sense. I know it's supposed to be about a kid's wild imagination, but they take that concept WAY TOO FAR.

But, that's just my opinion.

[Mithrandir]

It's not totally fair to pooh-pooh all modern animation, because, well, every generation has a habit of doing that.

Now, granted, the early-to-mid 90's were the "golden era", when cartoons were created and controlled by directors with an actual artistic concept in mind (and not just to sell toys like most 80's cartoons), when there was more freedom, and when Saturday mornings were still just for cartoons...Saturday morning cartoons basically don't exist anymore, not now that we have entire cable channels dedicated to new material.

Still, when modern shows get it right, they really get it right these days. I don't think anybody could've pulled off a masterpiece like Avatar: The Last Airbender a decade ago.

[LaserX5]

Still, when modern shows get it right, they really get it right these days. I don't think anybody could've pulled off a masterpiece like Avatar: The Last Airbender a decade ago.

That's the problem though. Most modern shows don't get it right. In fact, I can name only a handful this decade that were any good at all.

Plus, you do realize that Airbender movie recieved horrible reviews right?

[furrykef]

Plus, you do realize that Airbender movie recieved horrible reviews right?

Super Mario Bros. must be a horrible game. Have you heard the reviews for the Super Mario Bros. movie?

[Bakuda]

Plus, you do realize that Airbender movie recieved horrible reviews right?

Super Mario Bros. must be a horrible game. Have you heard the reviews for the Super Mario Bros. movie?

HAHAHA.....You know...as terrible as that movie was I loved it as a kid.

[LaserX5]

Super Mario Bros. must be a horrible game. Have you heard the reviews for the Super Mario Bros. movie?

Yea, I've seen them. It's one of the worst video game movies, if not the worst. It has hardly anything to do with the Mario Bros game, if any. Even the actors looked nothing like the actual characters.

To be honest though, I don't know how that Avator show its horrid movie was based off of was so popular. Whenever I watched it, it never appealed to me. It just looked like a really weird and off the wall cartoon. No Offense to anyone who thinks otherwise.

[furrykef]

I haven't seen it, so I can't judge. I was just pointing out that reviews of a movie are neither here nor there when talking about the product the movie was based on.

[supafue]

Satam Robotnik was definitely NOT boring or one-dimensioned. If you are referring to posts made on Sega's forum, keep in mind that many of them often have that mentality when modern Sonic is compared to classic Sonic. Not necessarily criticizing those users. but that particular group has strong preference regarding modern Sonic: whether it is games or media. Robotnik's goals in Satam was that of serious villain or dictator. Sonic X's Robotnik is more of a comedian, and is more less "playing." Sonic Adventure games used the "evil Robotnik" while Sonic Heroes and on used the "comedic" Robotnik.

Sega Robotnik's personality normally depends on the mood of the game. Sonic 06 was more of a "serious" story, so that was the Robotnik you got. On Sega's, Sonic forum those posters are generally younger. Sonic Satam represents "classic" Sonic, which younger, newer Sonic fans see as a "threat."
=====================================================

Anyway, I feel that the BIGGEST blow to modern day cartoons is early 2007 when Cartoon Network's president changed. You see, the Fox Box, KidsWB, and evening cartoon blocks were removed from the TV network's for some reason. In 2005 and 2006, with most cartoon blocks gone, the only remaining places for action cartoons were Cartoon Network, and what eventually became 4kidstv. Then, cartoon network had multiple action cartoon blocks including Toonami and Meguzi(spelling?)

In early 2007, Cartoon Network's president stepped down after the Aqua-gate scandal. That year, popular animated shows got their final runs, and replaced by those low-budget stick-figure cartoons you see today. Of course, that new president resulted in Toonami airing more "kid-friendly" shows supposedly, but they mostly showed Naruto before getting rid of it all together. In any case, before 2007, there were atleast "attempts" to make cartoons good. Like the shows or not, directors were actually motivated.

Today, if you flip to a cartoon, well... almost anything you see are... those stick figure comedies... that are lower budget, but this is perceived as what "kids like." I doubt it though. It's one thing to create a show that isn't good, but when the networks are obviously intentionally ordering those cheap cartoons... there is trouble. Now, Avatar the Last Airbender was created originally before the phrase "modern day toons are not as good" became mainstream.

Now, Sonic Satam aired in the 1990s. Most cartoon blocks that would have aired Sonic Satam season 3 have actually been shut down. Cartoon Network wouldn't air SatAm today, due to the "serious" mood. It'd only have like a 1 in a millionth chance of being aired on a Friday night. Toonzai is mostly anime. The only modern I could think of that would air a show like SatAm would've been Jetix, but even that is gone now. As long as this continues, cartoons like SatAm, or the 1990s golden era are unlikely to be anything other than a straight-to-DVD movie.

[InvaderMeer]

Yes. He's a one dimensional character. "I'm gonna take over the world for no aparent reason!" In my fanfic, he and Eggman are the same person. Robotnick/Eggman just has multiple personality disorder.