58 replies to this topic

[Juice16]

I think the SATAM Robotnik was the best version of the villain. One of the reasons I think Satam is great was because of the seemingly limitless potential of evil Robotnik had. So no, I don't think Robotnik was boring at all especially since that evil voice provided by Jim Cummings fits in so well.

[RedAuthar]

The games has made Dr. Eggman too likeable and it's hard for him to return to his villian seat. Dr. Robotnik makes a great villian because he is cruel, heartless, rude (not sharing an escape pod with Snively), brutal, arrogant, etc. He has all the best villian qualities that make you like to hate him. Dr. Eggman is too likeable to see him as a villian for a long time.

[Mithrandir]

I grew up imagining Robotnik as the vile, cruel, ruthless version from SatAM, so I'm naturally biased towards that version, but the fact is that a more evil Robotnik opens up more chances for dramatic storytelling. Sonic's conflict with Robotnik becomes much more personal, much more deadly, and much more dramatic than if Robotnik/Eggman is silly or bumbling or what have you. I mean, I liked Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog as a kid, but "PINGAS!" Robotnik was there for fun, not as a serious threat.

As a kid, I genuinely feared each Saturday that SatAM Robotnik would capture one of the Freedom Fighters and roboticize them. They created a villain that was thoroughly evil AND competent (dude did stage a successful coup and enslave nearly the entire planet within a decade, ya know), which is rare in Western animation, and, again, makes his conflict with the protagonist so much more interesting.

That all said, I did feel that SatAM started to slip in it's presentation of Robotnik in Season 2. Season 1, Robotnik is rarely heard without that scary metallic effect behind his voice, and he rarely is seen fully in action. It makes him a bit more mysterious and dangerous, since we're not totally aware of what he's capable of.

Season 2 hurt his mystique in some ways. I didn't mind them having Naugus toy with him (just made Naugus more dangerous looking), but he got messed with a bit too easily, like Sonic going straight into his control room to steal roboticizer parts (though it did lead to the great "Something smells rotten in Topeka...wherever THAT is" line. ) and basically owning him.

Different topic: I think both versions of Robotnik/Eggman have been portrayed as being obsessed with defeating Sonic somehow, but, again, the more vile, dangerous Robotnik, while one-dimensional ("What color is my heart?" "I...don't see a heart." "Exactly."), becomes more interesting. Plus, there's the whole angle of him formally being a warlord; I like to think that means Robotnik doesn't want to see Sonic defeated easily, he wants to work for his trophy.

[Vlad Yvhv]

Not to mention their names... "Robotnik" sounds kinda menacing and a bit Russian. "Eggman" sounds like a rejected Mega Man villain.

[GreatCthulhu]

First off: Jim Cummings' voice alone is enough to define the character. It sounds like a delighted whisper that can quickly shift into a heartless scream in moments. Robotnik might have been hurt by the fact that he was a 90's Saturday Morning Cartoon Villian who wasn't on Batman: The Animated Series, but that doesn't mean he wasn't threatening. The fact that he turned a forest planet into an industrial nightmare with just enough plant life to be habitable within a matter of weeks is a considerably evil accomplishment. On the subject of evil, that brings me to another aspect of his character: His motivation for doing what he does isn't for science, humanity or even something as material as resources: it's merely because he can. To my knowledge, he's aware that he's heartless monster, but he doesn't gloat about how deliciously evil he is. To me, that's sort of realistic.

As for Eggman (Post Adventure 2)? Well, when Chris-Chan is more threatening than you are, you know you suck.

[PSI Hedgehog]

If SatAM-Robotnik is so evil, why didn't he just nuke the Great Forrest?

Because he couldn't get his hands on the proper materials to build a nuke?

Actually, he tried to destroy the Great Forest in the first episode. Sonic and co. stopped him, though.

[GreatCthulhu]

If SatAM-Robotnik is so evil, why didn't he just nuke the Great Forrest?

Actually, he tried to destroy the Great Forest in the first episode. Sonic and co. stopped him, though.

Plus, nukes suck. Sure, you can destroy/kill a lot of stuff in a matter of seconds with a nuke, but then it leaves plenty of unhealthy stuff behind that can easily kill you. And that isn't even including what happens if your enemy has some...

In addition, he needs Animals to enslave and roboticize. If he wants to have personal lackeys, then he's going to need them to reproduce.

[Bakuda]

And besides...I think someone already said this but...I believe this has become too personal for Robotnik. It's not enough to simply kill the critters...he wants them for himself. He wants to have them as a personal trophy so that he can gloat over his greatness . This very thing, however, is what lead to his downfall.

[RedAuthar]

Remember Priority 1 Hedgehog?

Obviously it's no longer a matter of winning, but a matter of utterly defeating his opponents at their own game.

[LaserX5]

Plus, nukes suck. Sure, you can destroy/kill a lot of stuff in a matter of seconds with a nuke, but then it leaves plenty of unhealthy stuff behind that can easily kill you. And that isn't even including what happens if your enemy has some...

In addition, he needs Animals to enslave and roboticize. If he wants to have personal lackeys, then he's going to need them to reproduce.

Couldn't have said it better myself. A nuke would do more harm than good in the long run.

Besides, Robotnik most definitely wants to see the look of agony and despair on his enemies faces before sentencing them to life as his robotic slaves. He wouldn't get that satisfaction firing a nuke at them.

[RedAuthar]

Eggman's Popularity:

The character has been well-received, going on to become one of the most well-known villains in gaming. GameDaily ranked him number one on their list of Top 25 Evil Masterminds of All Time article, stating "Out of all the evil masterminds in video games, none are more despicable, more cunning, or more menacing".[13] IGN listed him at number nine above Mario-series villain Bowser in their "Top 10 Most Memorable Villains" article, calling him "PETA's videogame public enemy number one",[14] and has also commented that his character is a "pretty clever riff on Teddy Roosevelt" that has added to the attraction of the series.[15] He was featured at number three in a "Reader's Choice" edition of GameSpot's "Top Ten Video Game Villains" article, which noted a massive complaint by fans at his exclusion from the original list.[16] Eggman was also named the 15th most diabolical video game villain of all time by PC World.[17] Game Informer notes that in Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, "Eggman's villain ego shows some amusing tarnish after constant defeat at the hands of Sonic."[18]Boy's Life magazine listed "Dr. Eggman/Dr. Robotnik" as number one on their top five video game villains, saying "Two names, one big problem for Sonic the Hedgehog". In the "Top 100 Videogame Villans" of IGN, in 2010, Dr. Eggman was put in 11th place.

When comparing the two it seems more fans out there know of and prefer Sega Eggman... Robotnik will just have to make a bigger name for himself.

Sources:

↑ Top 25 Evil Masterminds of All Time. GameDaily. Retrieved on 2008-11-29
↑ IGN Staff (2006-03-07). Top 10 Tuesday: Most Memorable Villains. IGN. Retrieved on 2008-12-14
↑ Where Did Sonic Go Wrong? (February 2009). Retrieved on 2009-02-27.
↑ Staff. TenSpot Reader's Choice: Top Ten Video Game Villains. GameSpot. Retrieved on 2008-12-30
↑ GamePro Staff (February 2008). The 47 Most Diabolical Video-Game Villains of All Time. PC World. Retrieved on 2008-08-06.
↑ Bryan, "Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood: The Time Has Come," Game Informer 187 (November 2008): 130.

[LaserX5]

#1 evil mastermind? Who did GameDaily poll to get that stat, small children?

Eggman is not that really a good villain IMO. Ok, I'll give him credit for the fact he was pretty good in the Sonic Adventure games, but he soon deteriorated into a total joke. Whenever I hear that Sonic X voice actor of his, I don't hear a villain who sends chills up your spine, but a whiny brat throwing a temper tantrum, especially when Sonic defeats him.

Even his plans and machines are completely ridiculous at times. Who could forget that stupid pinball robot in Shadow the Hedgehog? Or how about the fact he has plans to make an amusement park called Eggmanland? Really, an amusement park? That's his big plan? Sheesh, no wonder Sonic kicks his butt on a regular basis.

I'm almost certain young children were polled when I see all those stats of how good they claim he is as a villain. What's even more absurd is the fact he's above Bowser in that list. Bowser to his credit at least looks the part.

Why there's not more love for Julian Robotnik, or as he's been called recently, Robotnik Prime is completely beyond me. At least Julian has a pretty impressive resume in terms of diabolical plans. What has Eggman done even close to him in terms of being completely vile? Not much I have to say.

If Sega would have used Julian instead of Eggman as their main villain, the Sonic games would skyrocket in popularity.

[Kibaspirit]

I agree, SatAM Robotnik was very one dimensional: He was evil because he was EVIL, and damn good at it. And I love him for it.

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. He didn't need to have any other characteristics to embellish on the story. As a viewer, had Robotnik had more personality, I would not have felt any differently towards him. He was just evil and that's all he ever needed to be.

[DCC]

Sat a.m. Robotnic may be boring to some, but I guess I am one of those strange ones that find pure evil vilains interesting and realistic. This probably comes from my religous background; being taught that there is black and white, that pure evil does exist.

[MistressAli]

What may come across as a lack of character-detailing... ie: Robotnik not being given a clear motive for his EBIL actions, not being given any hints as to what his childhood or even younger adult years were like..... I personally like this. Yes, it might across as 2-D to some, but who's to say the writers wouldn't have gotten around to this if given the time? It gives him mystery and allows the viewer to fill in the gaps with their imagination, and I love doing that. He's not quite as ambigious as Snively, being that Robotnik doesn't seem to show an ounce of anything other than wickedness... but still. You have to wonder if he ever had/ or has goodness somewhere within, or whether he's just a pure, evil sociopath. I certainly wouldn't mind having more details of his life and motivation, but I wouldn't want every single thing laid out....
Hell, even if the writers were lazy, didn't ever intend to flesh him out, and he was intended to be a boring, flat 2-D I'm-Oh-So-EVIL character... that doesn't mean WE can't finish their job and breathe a soul into him ourselves.

[LibbyLishly]

I agree with MistressAli - my answer to this question on SMS basically said that any time a show has a decent character but doesn't do much with their backstory, you wind up with a lot of material to work with in creating a background for them. What else are fanfics for?

Over at SMS, the 'dysfunctional evil family' idea was offered, since Dr. Eggman, Dr. Gerald Robotnik, and Maria are all supposed to be related (we will ignore, for the time being, 'Mama Robotnik' from AoStH ((shudders violently))) - sounds to me like a streak of insanity runs in the family (which explains a lot about Shadow, too...). In addition, you never know - maybe he was abused as a child (Snively certainly acts like he was), and achieving power is his way of combating the feelings of inferiority that are still inside him. Maybe he was just a schoolyard bully who always loved making everyone's lives miserable... though that really leads more to being petty, and Robotnik isn't petty; he's downright evil and proud of it.

Someone also pointed out that there's a sort of Moby Dick/Captain Ahab element to Sonic and Robotnik's relationship, which explains, to me, a lot of the missteps Robotnik took in his pursuit of the hedgehog, and the obsessive nature of the pursuit. He started focusing far less on managing his dystopia and more and more on his great revenge schemes.

Finally, the existence of Snively actually adds a bit of dimension to Robotnik's own character. He's the ideal foil, and something tells me Robotnik never would have gotten anywhere without Snively. His genius lies less in invention and more in manipulation and intimidation. Because, face it... there are few villains more directly intimidating than Julian Robotnik.

[LaserX5]

Finally, the existence of Snively actually adds a bit of dimension to Robotnik's own character. He's the ideal foil, and something tells me Robotnik never would have gotten anywhere without Snively. His genius lies less in invention and more in manipulation and intimidation. Because, face it... there are few villains more directly intimidating than Julian Robotnik.

So true. Snively is a bigger asset to Julian than he'll ever realize.

And yea, I really don't know any villains off hand that is so in your face as Julian. That's what I love about him.

[Bakuda]

After all of this conversation I've come to the conclusion that Robotnik could be classed as a "fallen genius". Not many people could do what he did in his overthrow of Mobius. And while it is true that much of what he did was simply using other people (snively, Uncle Chuck, etc...) It still takes quite a bit to pull something of that caliber off. Yet, despite all of this, Robitnik still fell to one of man's most common and brutal enemy...pride. The mere fact that one hedgehog could thwart this mastermind so many times is what led to Robotniks eventual downfall. His entire focus shifted from "rule Mobius" to "KILL THE STUPID HEDGEHOG!" And when you let pride be your primary motivator it will always lead to failure.

[furrykef]

I like the "fallen genius" idea. It makes Robotnik more believable without detracting from his pure evilness.

[KingTerky]

i wouldn't say satam robotnik is boring, but he is cold, humorless and unrelatable. he seems evil for the sake of being evil. not that jim cummings isn't a badass, but i like dark cynical humor. sonic colors is my first and only 3d sonic game and i think they are heading in the right direction with him. "...and by complimentary i mean quite expensive!"

some of the lyrics in that portal song remind of the kind of villain robotnik should be..."We do what we must because we can. For the good of all of us... Except the ones who are dead...But there's no sense crying over every mistake, You just keep on trying till you run out of cake, And the Science gets done... For the people who are still alive."

aah, but look at me talking when there is SCIENCE to do! "I've experiments to run. There is research to be done, On the people who are still alive"

hilarious!