82 replies to this topic

[PuffinGrandeur]

When did going Super make for an easy win? I honestly can't think of a time outside of Universalamander, in the comic OR in the games.

[LaserX5]

When did going Super make for an easy win? I honestly can't think of a time outside of Universalamander, in the comic OR in the games.

Ok, point taken.

[LibbyLishly]

EDIT: I want to add, reading some folks talking earlier about making a more "mature/darker/etc." version of the series, I don't necessarily agree. I like smart, intelligent writing, but I'm kind of burned out on stuff going all dark and gritty for the sake of it. Part of what I like in SatAM is the balance of the overwhelming dread of Robotropolis with the serenity and light-heartedness of Knothole.

Also, just my opinion, but I feel like in the quest to make things more "realistic", a lot of writers have lost realism by making everything all "dark/mature" and whatnot. Life isn't a whole bunch of happy endings, sure, but it's not a litany of woe, either. I prefer a story that can balance the two.

I agree, actually. There has to be a balance of impending darkness vs. happy light. That's really what life is. And there's nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with something being 'kid-friendly'. As a kid's move/cartoon addict, I have a lot of respect for the ability to tell a 'clean' story and tell it well. Pixar is the master of that.

Whoa... if Pixar got hold of Sonic... now THERE'S an interesting thought...

[LaserX5]

I agree, actually. There has to be a balance of impending darkness vs. happy light. That's really what life is. And there's nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with something being 'kid-friendly'. As a kid's move/cartoon addict, I have a lot of respect for the ability to tell a 'clean' story and tell it well.

Yep, couldn't agree more. the bright and cheery Knothole should greatly contrast with the dark, doom impending Robotropolis. Balance is indeed key. And, as long as they don't water down stuff that shouldn't be just to appease the kiddies, I have no problem with kid friendly stuff. It's when they make dark and sad moments kiddie like I cannot stand.

Whoa... if Pixar got hold of Sonic... now THERE'S an interesting thought...

As long as it was produced by the same people who made the Incredibles, yea, I'd be all for it.

Problem is, I don't think Pixar could pull off a Sonic Satam styled movie properly, as most of their movies are for kids more than they are for adults.

But, that's just my opinion.

[DLTN]

I dont like how tragic or dark moments are just swept away when they happen, or things miraculously get better, I know I'ts supposed to be for kids mainly but some things that have gone on before could have been handled better.

As for a drawback to using the Chaos Emeralds and going super... Read Sonic the Comic, When he turned super on that, the power drove Sonic insane and he would attack ANYTHING in super form (He tried to kill Tails and civilians the first time he turned in comic) and Sonic knows using "him" is usefull, but dangerous, because as rotten as Robotnik is, Super Sonic in the STC universe is much, much worse.

[henryiii]

I dont like how tragic or dark moments are just swept away when they happen, or things miraculously get better, I know I'ts supposed to be for kids mainly but some things that have gone on before could have been handled better.

As for a drawback to using the Chaos Emeralds and going super... Read Sonic the Comic, When he turned super on that, the power drove Sonic insane and he would attack ANYTHING in super form (He tried to kill Tails and civilians the first time he turned in comic) and Sonic knows using "him" is usefull, but dangerous, because as rotten as Robotnik is, Super Sonic in the STC universe is much, much worse.

It really sickens me when I see he characters act all happy in the comic, when I think to myself in the back of my head, that millions of billions have died in Ian's run and nobody seems to care.

I guess the idea is that they do grieve, but off screen, but in that case why should I follow the characters, when I can't get into their heads or ever feel how they feel on anything that happens?

EDIT: A for kids media, look at Star Wars the Clone Wars, while the fanbase and me are mixed about it as a Star Wars tale, as a kids show it's not afraid to tackle the ugliness of war and not afraid to pull any punches in any other complex issues and is one of the hottest things in kiddom right now. The comic would do good to look at it as an example

[PuffinGrandeur]

that millions of billions have died in Ian's run and nobody seems to care.

Did Eggman wipe out a galaxy or something? I don't seem to remember him killing all life on Mobius a MILLION TIMES OVER. Also seriously, expecting the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise to not be optimistic or have the characters give smiles is fairly silly. Even SataM had characters shrug that sort of stuff off pretty easily. The franchise has NEVER been on the same level as the Clone Wars show, with the exception of Fleetway sometimes.

[LaserX5]

Even SatAM had characters shrug that sort of stuff off pretty easily.

That's not exactly what I recall. When Sonic was forced to leave his Uncle behind, he didn't exactly shrug his shoulders and say, "Oh well." He was pretty broken up about it.

Even Bunnie, when her roboticization came back, she cried about it for a bit. Yea, I know she didn't cry for long, but I think that was due to the fact there were bigger issues at hand.

How about when Sally had to let go of her Dad due to the fact he couldn't stay in Mobius because he would die from turning to crystal?

Yea, I know what you're saying about the fact they didn't grieve for long periods of time, but these were moments of sadness that they didn't exactly get over very easily. In fact, several of them needed a good pep talk from their friends to help them cope with it and move forward.

It really sickens me when I see he characters act all happy in the comic, when I think to myself in the back of my head, that millions of billions have died in Ian's run and nobody seems to care.

I guess the idea is that they do grieve, but off screen, but in that case why should I follow the characters, when I can't get into their heads or ever feel how they feel on anything that happens?

Well, I wouldn't say billions exactly, but yea, Ian has had a very happy go lucky run of killing off characters in the comic. But then again, most of them were ones nobody really cared about, nor wanted in the series to begin with. Tommy the turtle comes to mind. I always thought he was such a worthless character, even though he did die a tragic death.

And yea, I agree about the fact the comic doesn't even give the hint the main characters are the least bit emotionally broken up over the deaths of past comrades. The only one who did show some that I recalled was Knuckles over his father's death, but that's about it.

But seriously, whatever happened to having emotional moments with the main characters missing those who are no longer with them? Those are really powerful scenes if done correctly.

[RedAuthar]

Key words "done correctly." They're hard to pull off and this is Ian we're talking about.

[LaserX5]

Key words "done correctly." They're hard to pull off and this is Ian we're talking about.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Ben Hurst at least when he did emotional scenes, they were pretty good IMO. Yea, they could have been improved a bit, but he really did a nice job capturing the emotions of these characters. Something Ian unfortunately has done very little of. If anything, he seems to make the Sonic characters way too care free.

[henryiii]

that millions of billions have died in Ian's run and nobody seems to care.

Did Eggman wipe out a galaxy or something? I don't seem to remember him killing all life on Mobius a MILLION TIMES OVER. Also seriously, expecting the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise to not be optimistic or have the characters give smiles is fairly silly. Even SataM had characters shrug that sort of stuff off pretty easily. The franchise has NEVER been on the same level as the Clone Wars show, with the exception of Fleetway sometimes.

Wrong Wrong! Death should never be shrugged off no matter the story universe, to do so is a huge offensive to story writing sensibilities everywhere and a hugely offensive move on it's inherent own and who says Sonic can't approach Star Wars darkness or maturity in writing?

[PuffinGrandeur]

The main cast is pretty damning against Sonic in the dark epicness category, in both Sega and SataM. No matter how you look at it, everybody is constructed as cartoon characters: the only one who could possibly go that far is Sally Acorn, and when she tries, it just comes off as furry melodrama. Because a lot of the time, that's what it was. However, do note that my emphasis was on Sonic never having been that dark in the PAST, not in the future.

However, also note even before that, that we're not talking about death and tragedy being immediately shrugged off. We've all admitted that Sonic and friends are sad for a while, after all. We're talking about it affecting characters immediately for a shorter time than you like, which MOST STORIES DO. Even without Sonic the Hedgehog's general optimistic and unbreakable attitude, it's just not sensible to keep lingering on the issue in the book after relevant issues. It slows things down and honestly, hurts the book by hurting its focus. I mean, I can understand if it's something like Sally Acorn dying and Sonic forgetting by the next issue, but generally that's not what happens. It's usually a very minor character (who, yes, was Sonic's friend) and they do get their respect for a while... the book just doesn't LINGER on said respect and deaths for longer than is necessary. It's no more disrespectful or offensive than SataM usually forgetting these same big moments an episode or two after.

[henryiii]

The cast is no more eligible for dark stories then manga/anime characters that are designed with th intention of features like big eyes and just being made to be charming, and don't forget the thousands of other furry comics that aren't afraid to go in dark waters.

And characters deaths happen and not only does nobody care, but it does so in a way to down play it in a way to go back in a offensively cheery outlook. No somber attitude of reflection, no nothing like that. It's just swept under the floor with the world and it's inhabitants acting like it never happened with no change as usual. To treat a gravely serious topic like that, how is not extremely offense inherently?!

Sonic and co, haven't really mentioned Tommy or the millions in the egg Grapes or the echidna massacre nullifying their affects.
Why should I care for such heartless characters who seem to have that much care for an individuals life.

[LaserX5]

Sonic and co, haven't really mentioned Tommy or the millions in the egg Grapes or the echidna massacre nullifying their affects.
Why should I care for such heartless characters who seem to have that much care for an individuals life.

Well, this is Ian we're talking about, or should I really say Sega, who apparently doesn't want its characters to have depth or complex personalities regarding deep issues like this.

It's just, fight Eggman, and if someone dies in the process, oh well, life goes on.

Yea, I know that's a very exaggerated way to describe the nonsense the current comic in terms of plot, but what do we expect when Sega is determined to make it like Sonic X, a tv series that's known for being comical and kiddyish, rather than serious and dark?

Anyway, as for the characters like Tommy and the echidnas never being mentioned after dying... Well, I rather they didn't talk about Tommy at all. In fact, I'd rather pretend he never even existed in the comic since he just was that worthless. He didn't do anything worthwhile, nor did he add anything as part of the cast.

The echidnas on the other hand... Yea, I think they should get more mention because that is part of Knuckles and Lien-Da's family. In fact, I do know Lien-Da did question Eggman for showing her any mercy at all after murdering a lot of her comrades from the Dark Legion.

[PuffinGrandeur]

Actually I was referring to their cartoon personalities more than their cartoon designs: I'm perfectly aware of things like Tezuka's works, which make compelling and complex storylines out of incredibly cute designs. But Sonic is an unbeatably optimistic super-fast hedgehog with attitude, Bunnie is a carefree Southern Belle cyborg, Rotor's a fat goofy nerd (in the most lovable way,) Antoine's an amazingly French stuffy coward, Amy is a fangirl with a temper, Tails is a naive little genius with a hero syndrome, and then there's Sally. They're almost all caricatures, and don't really handle DRAMABOMBS all that well, ESPECIALLY the main character Sonic himself. Yes, furry comics have no trouble going into dark waters, but they have no trouble being terrible either.

Tommy got a scene the next issue. That's all he deserved: as for the others, Knuckles has been grieving over his people in nearly all his appearances, and the Egg Grapes otherwise have mostly been irrelevant except for in the case of the Eggman Empire arc, which only had one 'casualty' and people are STILL grieving over that in-book.

Also, seriously, where are you getting these numbers? The HIGHEST I can see is thousands, with the echidnas and an unspecified amount of the Goldenhive Colony. Other than that, it's unknown where Eggman was even getting those victims FROM. It certainly wasn't from Knothole...

[henryiii]

Actually I was referring to their cartoon personalities more than their cartoon designs: I'm perfectly aware of things like Tezuka's works, which make compelling and complex storylines out of incredibly cute designs. But Sonic is an unbeatably optimistic super-fast hedgehog with attitude, Bunnie is a carefree Southern Belle cyborg, Rotor's a fat goofy nerd (in the most lovable way,) Antoine's an amazingly French stuffy coward, Amy is a fangirl with a temper, Tails is a naive little genius with a hero syndrome, and then there's Sally. They're almost all caricatures, and don't really handle DRAMABOMBS all that well, ESPECIALLY the main character Sonic himself. Yes, furry comics have no trouble going into dark waters, but they have no trouble being terrible either.

I can see the difference is you see the characters as just one-dimensional funny cartoons characters and the rest of this board as either furries and/or just like a good story with anthro cartoon or other wise and that includes characters to have dramatic and compelling depth. Besides I and others can show you plenty of good furry comics or maybe you just like to hate on the fandom, judging by your response.

Tommy got a scene the next issue. That's all he deserved

No one deserves to be just just dropped and forgotten, especially a character who was built up to be something.


[quote] which only had one 'casualty' and people are STILL grieving over that in-book./quote]
Which the book and it's cast never really seem to care to show, making their whole deaths invalid.

Edit: Why even have a kill quotient, when your afraid to have DRAMABOMBS and to show said outcome?

[PuffinGrandeur]

Oh, henry. I never said they were one dimensional. And Tommy deserved to be dropped and forgotten long before he actually was, he never built up to anything that mattered to anything. He was an absolute void, which, while being better than SOME characters, still means nothing.

Also what kill quota? I'm really having trouble coming up with notable characters that have died. I know he's got the reputation for cleaning house, but honestly: the only other notable deaths I can think of are... Adam and M. Maybe Naugus, if you want to stretch things. Is this about Sir Connery? Because seriously, they knew the guy for like two hours. Their reactions to that death actually felt overblown.

Also the one casualty of the Egg Grapes of any real important was Charmy, which is shown. Otherwise, it was literally nameless people PULLED FROM NOWHERE THAT NOBODY KNEW ABOUT. How are they supposed to grieve over that? Besides Knuckles and his echidnas, which he does grieve about, and caused a storyline all its own. And that storyline has been creating even more storylines... those deaths are actually having tons of effects on the book, and Knuckles is clearly affected by it too.

This whole "Sonic X" thing is quite silly considering how much Sega obviously wanted to keep Sonic X separate, to the point of barring some SegaSonic characters from appearing in the ArchieSonic comic because they were considered Sonic X properties. If you're going to say "Sega, shoving Sonic down your throat" at least call it "Sega, shoving SegaSonic down your throat" or "Sega, shoving Sonic International Standard down your throat" or "Sega, shoving Sonic the Hedgehog down your throat since 1991." It's simply more accurate!

[LaserX5]

This whole "Sonic X" thing is quite silly considering how much Sega obviously wanted to keep Sonic X separate, to the point of barring some SegaSonic characters from appearing in the ArchieSonic comic because they were considered Sonic X properties. If you're going to say "Sega, shoving Sonic down your throat" at least call it "Sega, shoving SegaSonic down your throat" or "Sega, shoving Sonic International Standard down your throat" or "Sega, shoving Sonic the Hedgehog down your throat since 1991." It's simply more accurate!

It's not silly when you start thinking how much of Sonic X has become part of the Sonic Franchise today. Let's not forget this is the only Sonic show that has Sega's seal of approval. The others have been either discarded, disliked, or debunked as non canon.

How about the fact that most of the same voice actors from the 4Kids Sonic X show became the voice actors for the game characters. I don't that's a coincidence at all. Only recently were some of them replaced, probably because they did such a horrible job, but that's just my opinion.

And if that's not enough, how about the fact when Ken Penders was fired, he was replaced by Ian Flynn, who was the Sonic X comic book writer before that? And then on top of that, the art became very similar to the tv show, as well as the the Sonic X comic book.

Coincidence? I think not.

[TBarrett]

And if that's not enough, how about the fact when Ken Penders was fired, he was replaced by Ian Flynn, who was the Sonic X comic book writer before that? And then on top of that, the art became very similar to the tv show, as well as the the Sonic X comic book.

Coincidence? I think not.

Just wanted to correct you about this. Ian started work on Sonic in issue #160. He didn't write a Sonic X issue until nearly half to an entire year later, when he wrote Sonic X #16. The artwork was a Sega mandate however.

[LaserX5]

Ok, fine, my bad on that part about Ian.