6 replies to this topic

[Ratty Randnums]

Today I came upon a very fascinating and thought provoking article/blog post/examination of the portrayal of racial features in anime. Why it is the way it is and what that signifies. And perhaps almost as important, what our interpretations of it's significance says about us. Although many of the artists on this board have probably at least idly considered these implications when experimenting with the style, I can't recommend it enough to everyone interested in these topics. It's not very long http://mark2000.com/?p=787#more-787

Agree? Disagree? Did it hit the nail on the head? Think the article writer is full of crap? Let's hear your views on this

[chief]

Its actually a very interesting article.. Stuff that I kinda figured but this lays everything out there for you. A good read for sure.

[Bakuda]

That was an interesting read. I've often wondered about the big anime eyes but never really put much thought into it. My personal thought is that whatever it was that started this trend, it's not what's keeping it going. The style of japanese animation has been set, and animators will now use the big ol' eyes because that's the established style.

[MistressAli]

Yeah, it sounds very plausible. It could've been more along the lines of emulating western art and then the trend of big eyes (and other features) just sticking, rather than a self-hate sort of thing. But I guess that wouldn't explain why all the Japanese characters really don't look Japanese. I doubt now that people draw anime the way they do consciously. It's just a style that stuck and people do it without thinking, because it's become the norm.
There are a lot of things people do without a single thought as to why. Not to drag it too off topic but an example would be bras. They're just a remnant of the corset and there really is no actual purpose to them, but over time they have become what people consider to be 'the norm' and 'just the way it is'. There's a lot of stuff like that...

The conclusion made me laugh, with how the different races do things to change their 'racial markers'. Because as the Indians are whitening their skin or blacks straightening their hair, the whites are getting into tanning beds and injecting their lips with collagen. I personally don't think most people do it with the thought of erasing their race. They do it because everyone is unhappy with some part of their body. I think a big-nosed girl (who happened to be Jewish) wouldn't want a nose job to be 'less Jew' but rather because she thinks her nose is big and ugly But then again, some of that unhappiness could come from the negative feeling they have of certain racial features, whether they're aware of the feeling's origin or not.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Japan has actually been taking design cues from the States since the 1920's, long before WWII. The only thing WWII really changed in Japan was Gojira and Atom bomb scares. Look at the 20's American and Japanese cartoon and animated shorts and you'll see what I'm talking about. The only difference is that Japan kept American 20's design details, whereas America's growing DC and Marvel comics introduced darker themes best expressed in beadier, narrower eyes. This design cue wasn't explored in Japan until AKIRA in the 1980's, and is still used in anime when designing the villain characters to help visually separate them from the hero characters.

Though, using Full Metal Alchemist or Kiki's Delivery Service as an example of characters of Japanese race is absurd, since the story doesn't even take place in Japan. Hayao Miyazaki, director of Kiki's Delivery Service, stated that he liked placing his movies in what he though a 1950's European world would look like is WWII never took place. The movie takes place in Europe, so the characters look like they're in Europe. It's like wondering why everyone in the American made movie Ratatouille has French accents. Were the movie's creators secretly desiring to be French? No. Director Brad Bird wanted the film's story to take place in France, so he design French characters. Same thing with Full Metal Alchemist or Kiki's Delivery Service. They're stories that take place in Europe, so it only makes sense that the characters look European. I'm not attacking the rest of the article, but the writer's ignorance shows a little in those "examples".

Though I find it interesting that, even with Japan drawing their characters in this way, they still draw Europeans and Americans slightly differently than they do their Japanese characters:

You can see that there are 3 darker Japanese characters with 3 paler characters not of Japanese decent. Even their eye shapes are slightly different. The red-head chick in the foreground was even explained in the anime as being from Germany. Granted these differences aren't all that obvious, and you have to get these characters to stand right next to each other in order to see the differences. But they're still there.

I can't help but feel as if these charges are made just to make the character's facial expressions more readable. That, and marketing to America is always financially profitable considering the current state of the Japanese economy.

[Ratty Randnums]

Kiki's Delivery Service. They're stories that take place in Europe, so it only makes sense that the characters look European. I'm not attacking the rest of the article, but the writer's ignorance shows a little in those "examples".

Lol I'm not attacking your reading comprehension in general. Because, again, I want to hear different opinions viewpoints and insights into this. But you seemed to have skimmed over that part, as the purpose of putting Kiki's Delivery Service there was to show that characters who are European and characters who are Japanese in his other films look exactly the same. It was made clear that Kiki's Delivery Service takes place in Europe.
Yeah, if I recall correctly the popularity of the "big eye" look can probably be traced back to the first cartoon superstar Felix the Cat, and internationally to the popularity of "Betty Boop". You can see that rubber hose influence in animation before the american occupation but the Japanese characters still look Japanese.
The blog I believe was pointing out that post-WW2/during the occupation many of these racial traits disappeared en masse, noticeably with "The Japanese Disney" Osamu Tezuka and Astro Boy breaking away from more traditional depictions of these racial features.
Though this may have been more an attempt to imitate the style/iconography of Disney on Tezuka's part, it's extreme popularity as a style coupled with things like Japanese characters often not having black hair to this day may signify things it's fans in Japan and abroad might not consciously realize.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Touché. I was being distracted by some dial-up related issues while trying to read this article.

Yeah, WWII did do a number on Japan as far as American influences go. I remember hearing that the director for the original 1954 Gojra movie, Ishiro Honda, worked with the writers of the script to point out the changes of culture in Japan that were going on in the 50's.