35 replies to this topic

[chief]

I actually got this from SMS. Interesting question really. Just what is Mobius. I mean it would make sense either way to me. But personally I like to think of it as some sort of future earth, perhaps after a massive war and almost human extinction. (There has to be a reason why Sniv and Robotnic are the only humans shown. I wouldn't go as far to say they are the only ones left, however its quite obvious something caused the human population to nose dive.

Of course thats going on the assumption the planet is a future earth.


Anyways, what is your opinion on the matter?

[furrykef]

I was sorely tempted to choose one of the 'joke' answers, but really, I much prefer it as an alien world.

Also, I'm sure somebody else will post this -- so I'm going to do it before they do.

Attached Files

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[Glitcher]

EDIT: Image removed. Same as furrkykef's anyway.

Also, I'm sure somebody else will post this -- so I'm going to do it before they do.

Goddammit, that's the second time I've been beaten out by a few seconds! I need to be quicker on the trigger finger.

[GamemasterAnthony]

Truthfully, I think depending on the continuity, it can be up for debate. Sure, the future Earth was confirmed for the Archie continuity, but that's not to say it's the same for the games, SatAM, AoStH, Fleetway, or others. Heck, Sonic X pretty much made Earth and Sonic's homeworld (not sure if they called it Mobius or anything) become separate planets.

[acstrife]

Eh all the evidence seems to point that Mobius is a Future Earth. But and alien world would be kinda cool too. I'm for both really. Either one really doesn't rub me the wrong way.

[Jman1236]

Truthfully, I think depending on the continuity, it can be up for debate. Sure, the future Earth was confirmed for the Archie continuity, but that's not to say it's the same for the games, SatAM, AoStH, Fleetway, or others. Heck, Sonic X pretty much made Earth and Sonic's homeworld (not sure if they called it Mobius or anything) become separate planets.

I believe in Sonic X they said the planets were once one planet but were split into separate dimensions.

[ALIENwolve]

Santa must have a really fucking big secret base.

[chief]

A lot of slave labour.

[furrykef]

There are two problems I have with the idea of Mobius being a future earth:

1) It just doesn't fit with our reality in any way. Now, a lot of stories get away with being on Earth but bending the rules (Superman as well as most other superhero stories), but I don't think SatAM is that kind of story (other Sonic continuities can differ, since they bring humans into it -- beyond just Snively and Robotnik, I mean). It's pretty difficult to imagine a connection between where we live and the world of SatAM. Sure, you've got grass, trees, water, a blue sky, and even species that resemble animals on Earth, but it's still a fantasy land on a fundamental level. Saying that we or animals somehow evolved into talking hedgehogs and chipmunks is introducing a sort of cheesiness that SatAM just doesn't have.

2) It seems kinda conceited. It's as if putting it on Earth means it's more important, because hey, Earth is where we are, so now we sorta have something to do with the story.

[chief]

OMG I'm positive SatAM takes place on the west coast of Canada!!!!!! OMGOMGOMG I'm part of the story OMG! WTF! YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[Rosy]

There are two problems I have with the idea of Mobius being a future earth:

1) It just doesn't fit with our reality in any way. Now, a lot of stories get away with being on Earth but bending the rules (Superman as well as most other superhero stories), but I don't think SatAM is that kind of story (other Sonic continuities can differ, since they bring humans into it -- beyond just Snively and Robotnik, I mean). It's pretty difficult to imagine a connection between where we live and the world of SatAM. Sure, you've got grass, trees, water, a blue sky, and even species that resemble animals on Earth, but it's still a fantasy land on a fundamental level. Saying that we or animals somehow evolved into talking hedgehogs and chipmunks is introducing a sort of cheesiness that SatAM just doesn't have.

2) It seems kinda conceited. It's as if putting it on Earth means it's more important, because hey, Earth is where we are, so now we sorta have something to do with the story.

There was always one problem I had with Archie's story saying that in the future Earth animals somehow evolved into talking being shaped like humans... If that was true, WHY are there animals still that act like present day Earth ones? Examples are Sonic's Dog Muttski, during one of Sally's flashbacks of her lessons she saw a cat-like creature eat a 'wingspan' bird that wasn't on the high intelligent level like most of the other animals, and there are others just like those. But if the Xorda really did try to destroy all humans and what they did caused the animals to evolve, wouldn't that had meant all the animals evolved and there shouldn't be anymore like these? Where as heck in SatAM, we saw a dinosaur.

I've always been more on the idea of it being an Alien Planet, and some humans crash landed on there while researching in space. Robotnik and Snively being among those, and Robotnik either robotized them or killed them when he came into power. Actually when I first saw SatAM, I thought the Swatbots were robotized humans.

[furrykef]

There was always one problem I had with Archie's story saying that in the future Earth animals somehow evolved into talking being shaped like humans... If that was true, WHY are there animals still that act like present day Earth ones?

Well, to be fair, that's sort of like saying "If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" (Though I'm not sure how the whole Xorda thing figures into it. All I know about it is the panels I posted in my first post.)

[Gojira007]

2) It seems kinda conceited. It's as if putting it on Earth means it's more important, because hey, Earth is where we are, so now we sorta have something to do with the story.

Y'know, that's close to why I've always been irked by the idea of Mobius as future Earth too. Very well put.

[Vlad Yvhv]

Humans are dangerous and self-destructive as a whole... Hell, within the expanded AvP universe, we're more dangerous than the other 2 (more intelligent than the Aliens and lacking in the code of honor of the Predators)... It seems likely that we finally went and destroyed most of ourselves, or went and picked a fight with someone more badass then us and got exterminated as a result. Or maybe we packed up and left. All roads lead to at least some people going into space and Robotnik and Snively coming back to find that Earth is now called Mobius. With space travel, it takes forever to get from point A to point B, even if you're going at the speed of light (or even with FTL travel). Science also states that the faster you go, the slower time moves for you, compared to everything around you. So, if you took what may seem like a weekend round trip with FTL travel, you might just come back to find that millions of years have passed. Plenty of time for other species to evolve into humanoids and all sorts of other oddities.

As I've stated in other topics, convergent evolution goes a long way towards explaining just how it is that the Mobians attained human form, despite being of different species. Also, just because one species resembles something, it doesn't mean that they are what they resemble. Thylacines and Hyenas are not related to canids, for example, but evolved to fulfill similar rolls, and thus also evolved similar traits, due to those traits making them better hunters. There are also a great many species that are harmless, but have evolved to mimic their more dangerous "cousins", as a defense mechanism. The terapods, for example, may resemble dinosaurs, but could actually be descendants of elephants or something. The dragons could be evolved from kangaroos, given that they seem to have the same body type and retain some mammalian traits, such as hair and milk production. All it really takes is the proper environmental settings to set the courses of evolution in any given direction. The critters that survive will adapt and reproduce. And eventually become something well-suited to their environment. It may be possible that they also evolved from humans, but that'd be highly unlikely without genetic splicing.

The "alien planet" idea is actually more far-fetched, scientifically. Most of the people studying alien life tend to concur that they wouldn't be humanoid, and probly wouldn't even resemble any species that we can identify, due to those planets being significantly different than our own. Any life that we're likely to come across within the existence of our own species is more likely to exist only in microbial form. While we can point back to convergent evolution, the problem arises from the fact the we'd have to have a planet with a very similar history to Earth in order to make it work (which in and of itself requires a lot of coincidences and close calls). Again, possible, but extremely improbable. The theory does hold water, but only because there aren't quite enough holes in it.

[furrykef]

The "alien planet" idea is actually more far-fetched, scientifically. Most of the people studying alien life tend to concur that they wouldn't be humanoid

Yes, of course. But this alien planet needn't even be in our universe. It could just take place in -- if I may get tautological -- the sort of place where this story could happen.

[chief]

A place in our hearts and imagination. Located somewhere in the middle of 'Corny as hell' galaxy.


But on a more...serious note. Even if the possibility of humanoid life outside of earth is less then my morning shit starting a conversation with me about stocks and bonds, the possibility is still there. With the vastness of the Universe it becomes more of a "how many times will there be humanoid life like ours?". But the only reason why I say it like that is because as far as we know there is no end to the cosmo's. All though everything we know needs a start and end..We sure haven't found it yet.

My point here as I'm more for Mobius being a future earth. However the possibility of it being a far off world isn't zero. I think the chances are less, but still there.

[GamemasterAnthony]

2) It seems kinda conceited. It's as if putting it on Earth means it's more important, because hey, Earth is where we are, so now we sorta have something to do with the story.

I have to second this notion (or third it, since Gojira also mentioned it) mostly because it does kinda sound like hubris on our part to say it's a future Earth since the bias is evidently present. I actually did aim more for Mobius being an alien world in my own fics, one that's always been a world populated by anthropomorphic animals, since I wanted Mobius to be an alternate reality to Earth and as such...LESS like Earth.

[Vlad Yvhv]

A place in our hearts and imagination. Located somewhere in the middle of 'Corny as hell' galaxy.


But on a more...serious note. Even if the possibility of humanoid life outside of earth is less then my morning shit starting a conversation with me about stocks and bonds, the possibility is still there. With the vastness of the Universe it becomes more of a "how many times will there be humanoid life like ours?". But the only reason why I say it like that is because as far as we know there is no end to the cosmo's. All though everything we know needs a start and end..We sure haven't found it yet.

My point here as I'm more for Mobius being a future earth. However the possibility of it being a far off world isn't zero. I think the chances are less, but still there.

When taking all of the factors into account, the answer to the "how many times will there be humanoid life?" question is "we're probly the only ones in this universe, since we're the result of numerous cosmic accidents and coincidences". Our universe is, in fact, finite. Though it's expanding at beyond the speed of light, there is a finite amount of stuff in it. That stuff is just all flying away from eachother. So, yes, it is possible for the scientists to figure out how much of anything there is out there. The general consensus that our universe is one of infinite, however, opens a whole new can of worms. It allows for everything (including entire reworkings of the laws of physics and elements working completely different as a result of that) to occur. And that, in turn, means that both would be viable answers it you're willing to take it that far. But, that's really getting into the headache-inducing interpretation realm. I'll stick with the Mobius = Earth as the most logical choice.

[GamemasterAnthony]

Actually, now that I think about it, there IS some credence to Mobius = Future Earth. Namely the fact that...Sonic and the other anthro characters are based on EARTH animals.

If Mobius was an alien planet of some kind, it would stand to reason that the forms Sonic and company would be those of alien critters rather than humanized versions of common Earth animals. Heck, one version of Mobius could very well have Sonic look like THIS. (Maybe even have Tails's birth mother look like this as well.)

[furrykef]

Actually, now that I think about it, there IS some credence to Mobius = Future Earth. Namely the fact that...Sonic and the other anthro characters are based on EARTH animals.

And I suppose wherever the humans in Star Wars are from is a future Earth too? (Never mind that it all took place "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...")

I think when you consider the idea of an alternate universe, or a fantasy realm, you can freely throw logic out the window so long as it's internally consistent. For instance you can have a universe where gravity works differently and things fall up instead of down, so long as there are reasonably consistent rules about what can and cannot happen. Vastly improbable things, like alien species evolving to resemble Earth species, doesn't do much to break suspension of disbelief.

On the other hand, if you say "Mobius = Future Earth", you bring the real world into it, and suddenly you have to imagine how exactly these things evolved the way they did, and I think suspension of disbelief suffers for it.

- Kef