138 replies to this topic

[LaserX5]

From the reaction to the review pages, it looks like most of the people at Ian's message board are actually excited about the upcoming story(not necessarily the cover, which did improve a little ). My concern is that this story arc will increase Amy's popularity and that there will be more of an effort to make her Sonic's girlfriend.

Why am I not surprised?

Sega's doing all they can to push Amy onto Sonic.

[Mithrandir]

I think we really have to come to grips with something, folks: we're really in the midst of the first true era where a lot of media and pop culture items from our younger days continue to linger into present times.

Not to say that hasn't existed in some forms before: after all, as we've seen, comics like Superman and Batman have existed since the 1920's, and still exist in various forms.

However, with cable TV expanding and allowing more old shows to be kept on air, with the explosion of the Internet and it's help in promoting nostalgia, etc., companies are only now truly seeing an age where they have to attract newer, younger fans, while still attempting to appeal to older fans.

I'm looking forward to how that's going to be done if the relaunch of ReBoot ever takes off, but it kind of applies now to Sonic, as well, at least as we all know the franchise.

Sega needs to draw newer fans to Sonic. In doing so, they've alienated a lot of older fans. Many of those older fans would've gone away, regardless; aging and changing tastes will do that.

However, here's where I'll agree with the negative crowd on this issue: the manner in which they're attempting to appeal to a new fanbase doesn't seem to be very smart or effective.

I see this in a lot of places; it seems today that when a franchise wishes to draw in new fans, it goes in one of two extreme directions, either overly dark and "mature" (I only mean that in terms of adult content, not real maturity) or incredibly light and lacking any substance.

What makes Sega's decision to go with the latter so strange is how Sonic, while never a "dark" series, always seemed to attempt to achieve a somewhat epic feel, yet today opts for a path where there's little conflict or anything sweeping and engaging about it.

So, I'll go along with an earlier post: the level of "light/dark" in the comic isn't all that important. In fact, keeping things on the lighter side can be smart at times, especially when you're planning on dropping a dark shock on your audience at some point.

What IS important is how those things are presented. The current iteration of Archie is a comic that's presented with little suspense, little conflict beyond "let's fight!", little reason to ever fear for the heroes. It's a flat world; the characters aren't developed, the world isn't expanded upon, conflicts are superficial, and even attempts at just funny, light issues are usually done poorly.

This isn't how you appeal to a new audience. Want to go on the lighter side? By all means, but do it right. Kids, as much as they can be suckers for mediocre stuff sometimes, usually can tell when they're being spoken down to, and lose interest.

[henryiii]

I think we really have to come to grips with something, folks: we're really in the midst of the first true era where a lot of media and pop culture items from our younger days continue to linger into present times.

Not to say that hasn't existed in some forms before: after all, as we've seen, comics like Superman and Batman have existed since the 1920's, and still exist in various forms.

However, with cable TV expanding and allowing more old shows to be kept on air, with the explosion of the Internet and it's help in promoting nostalgia, etc., companies are only now truly seeing an age where they have to attract newer, younger fans, while still attempting to appeal to older fans.

I'm looking forward to how that's going to be done if the relaunch of ReBoot ever takes off, but it kind of applies now to Sonic, as well, at least as we all know the franchise.

Sega needs to draw newer fans to Sonic. In doing so, they've alienated a lot of older fans. Many of those older fans would've gone away, regardless; aging and changing tastes will do that.

However, here's where I'll agree with the negative crowd on this issue: the manner in which they're attempting to appeal to a new fanbase doesn't seem to be very smart or effective.

I see this in a lot of places; it seems today that when a franchise wishes to draw in new fans, it goes in one of two extreme directions, either overly dark and "mature" (I only mean that in terms of adult content, not real maturity) or incredibly light and lacking any substance.

What makes Sega's decision to go with the latter so strange is how Sonic, while never a "dark" series, always seemed to attempt to achieve a somewhat epic feel, yet today opts for a path where there's little conflict or anything sweeping and engaging about it.

So, I'll go along with an earlier post: the level of "light/dark" in the comic isn't all that important. In fact, keeping things on the lighter side can be smart at times, especially when you're planning on dropping a dark shock on your audience at some point.

What IS important is how those things are presented. The current iteration of Archie is a comic that's presented with little suspense, little conflict beyond "let's fight!", little reason to ever fear for the heroes. It's a flat world; the characters aren't developed, the world isn't expanded upon, conflicts are superficial, and even attempts at just funny, light issues are usually done poorly.

This isn't how you appeal to a new audience. Want to go on the lighter side? By all means, but do it right. Kids, as much as they can be suckers for mediocre stuff sometimes, usually can tell when they're being spoken down to, and lose interest.

What's so maddening is: why do they cling to a vestige of Satam if that's the case?

[LaserX5]

What's so maddening is: why do they cling to a vestige of Satam if that's the case?

Good point.

Maybe to appeal to the those who still love the genre and its characters perhaps?

Well, if that's the case, it's certainly not working.

[Maren]

I just see it as a simplistic treasure hunt/comedic story.. PROBABLY intended for kids. So...If you are in your 20s or 30s and are complaining how bad it is.. Ehhh Maybe you should try reading books and comics meant for you. If you like it then.. good for you. But to complain about it is kinda stupid in my opinion.

Ian is aware of the fact that many of the book's readership consists of older fans, not just young children. Therefore, he needs to write in a way that doesn't alienate them. It would be one thing if he was actively trying phase away from the old userbase, but he has made constant concessions for them, such as keeping the Freedom Fighters and returning Sally to the feild with little in-story explanation. If he wants to keep them, then he needs to understand and accept the fact that their standards for writing aren't going to be the same as younger children.

And perhaps even that is only saying but so much. Because even if we were to assume that this was targetted purely to kids, the standards for child comics and cartoons have gone up. Teen Titans, Kim Possible, Avatar, and even imported shows like Naruto all have had similar demographics and have added more thought, serious conflicts and psychology in their characters than Ian ever has, having a huge following. With the standards for writing rising, so too does the competition and compared to his competitors, Ian's writing style just feels .. lazy; like he's relying too much on the hype that series (and Sonic in general) once had to sustain itself instead of innovate.


Now, onto my thoughts for the arc. I think that .. eh. My main problem with it is that it comes off to me as little more of the same. There's... nothing I see the characters getting out of this. Its too plotty, lacks depth, and little has happened outside of the typical manfight. It just feels like a hamfisted attempt to throw in a bunch of game characters for a quick buck.

[LaserX5]

Ian is aware of the fact that many of the book's readership consists of older fans, not just young children. Therefore, he needs to write in a way that doesn't alienate them. It would be one thing if he was actively trying phase away from the old userbase, but he has made constant concessions for them, such as keeping the Freedom Fighters and returning Sally to the feild with little in-story explanation. If he wants to keep them, then he needs to understand and accept the fact that their standards for writing aren't going to be the same as younger children.

I blame Sega for this whole mess more than I do Ian.

While I do not like Ian's writing style much anymore, Sega is the main culprit for why its turned kiddish and boring.

They're trying to shove a Sonic X styled series down our throats when that show was decent decent, and that was only the Japanese version. The 4Kids one on the other hand is an absolute joke IMO.

I wish somehow someone could get the point across to those blockheads at Sega that we Sonic fans DO NOT want a Sonic X styled comic.

[henryiii]

I just see it as a simplistic treasure hunt/comedic story.. PROBABLY intended for kids. So...If you are in your 20s or 30s and are complaining how bad it is.. Ehhh Maybe you should try reading books and comics meant for you. If you like it then.. good for you. But to complain about it is kinda stupid in my opinion.

Ian is aware of the fact that many of the book's readership consists of older fans, not just young children. Therefore, he needs to write in a way that doesn't alienate them. It would be one thing if he was actively trying phase away from the old userbase, but he has made constant concessions for them, such as keeping the Freedom Fighters and returning Sally to the feild with little in-story explanation. If he wants to keep them, then he needs to understand and accept the fact that their standards for writing aren't going to be the same as younger children.

And perhaps even that is only saying but so much. Because even if were to assume that this was targetted purely to kids, the standards for child comics and cartoons have gone up. Teen Titans, Kim Possible, Avatar, and even imported shows like Naruto all have similar demographics and have added more thought, serious conflicts and psychology in their characters than Ian has, having a huge following. With the standards rising, so does competition and compared to his competitors, Ian's writing style just feels .. lazy; like he's relying too much on the hype that series (and Sonic in general) once had to sustain itself instead of innovate.


Now, onto my thoughts for the arc. I think that .. eh. My main problem with it is that it comes off to me as little more of the same. There's... nothing I see the characters getting out of this. Its too plotty, lacks depth, and little has happened outside of the typical manfight. It just feels like a hamfisted attempt to throw in a bunch of game characters for a quick buck.

Everything I've said and more

[Maren]

I blame Sega for this whole mess more than I do Ian.

While I do not like Ian's writing style much anymore, Sega is the main culprit for why its turned kiddish and boring.

They're trying to shove a Sonic X styled series down our throats when that show was at best decent, and that was only the Japanese version. The 4Kids one on the other hand is an absolute disgrace IMO.

I wish somehow someone could get the point across to those blockheads at Sega that we Sonic fans DO NOT want a Sonic X styled comic.

only blame I have on SEGA's part was in accepting these kinds of stories. They weren't the ones however, forcing Ian to write like this, anymore than they forced Ken and Karl to oversaturate the book with relationship issues. Ian's style of writing is predominantly of his own accord.

[henryiii]

Funny you should mention the story should be driven by the character's psychology.

The most sicking thing I've ever heard a Bumbleking member say is that one of Pender's biggist flaw is that he was
"too psychological". Like having 3-dimensional characters that I can relate to on an emotional level is a bad thing.

And now you know the kind of people Ian surrounds himself with.

[LaserX5]

only blame I have on SEGA's part was in accepting these kinds of stories. They weren't the ones however, forcing Ian to write like this, anymore than they forced Ken and Karl to oversaturate the book with relationship issues. Ian's style of writing is predominantly of his own accord.

I agree. Ian is responsible for the content he writes, but the fact Sega doesn't object to it is why I blame them more.

They could demand better stories from Archie if they really wanted to.

[Maren]

They could, but why would you expect them to when the stories they've written for the games are often sub-par and regurgitated at best?

The most sicking thing I've ever heard a Bumbleking member say is that one of Pender's biggist flaw is that he was
"too psychological". Like having 3-dimensional characters that I can relate to on an emotional level is a bad thing.

I think many characters got watered down by Ian, and often to the point where many of them felt like clones of one other, but with different patterns of speech.

[LaserX5]

I think many characters got watered down by Ian, and often to the point where many of them felt like clones of one other, but with different patterns of speech.

That's what happens when a Sonic X styled writer takes over the comic.

Its vile content has infected every aspect even worse than Penders did.

[furrykef]

Prediction: Chief will soon come in and go "Stop with all the endless Archie bashing. Again. Seriously."

[Maren]

Its not a bash if you support your opinion.

[henryiii]

Interesting fact. This is one of the most highest viewed topics on this very site.


Make of that what you will

[Baz]

The root problem is consumerism and greed.

It always reduces the quality of the product and burns up quickly like hay.

Disney has been suffering with this in recent years as well. Very flashy but very little heart.

[LaserX5]

Interesting fact. This is one of the most highest viewed topics on this very site.


Make of that what you will

I actually find that fact very refreshing.

[Anyon]

Well, I might as well jump in head first and post my opinion on it all. Please bear with me, as I really suck at writing.

To start off, the story arc in questions doesn't appeal to my personal taste. I read one of them, but you know what? It's just not for me. I will probably keep it if I ever have kids. At least some kids might like it, and if it pleases them, then good for them. I don't like the idea of having a lot of stories like this, but as it has been said before, this is what is drawing in the younger crowd. And it's just a short, not like Archie is diverting their main story into a 20-issue treasure hunt. I don't like it, but I will respect it for its point and purpose. I hope it draws more kids into Sonic the Hedgehog.

As far as what is happening with the series as a whole, I guess I expect to see this happening. It all comes down to business procedure. I don't like it one bit, but I know that a business would be willing to make me unhappy if they changed something in a way to make three or four other people happy, because that is more profitable for them. Seems to me the reason SatAM isn't being respected is because the younger audience aren't respecting it, likely because they have never seen the shows and can't connect emotionally to the characters. Does a company try and take the time to creatively write an old series into the hearts of the new readers, or rely on the already-existing fanbase of the newer stuff? It seems more profitable for them to rely on what the next generation is getting in to. If they respected the SatAM series more, I would be willing to pay more into getting the series, but at what cost? How many kids who don't know what SatAM is would stop reading it because they don't want to learn a whole new series? Or because their favorite, new shiny characters aren't given more attention? This kind of thing does happen, and makes for a nightmare to balance out.

What I would like to see is a new comic series, a series written to continue Sonic SatAM in all of its glory. A series written by people who can show respect to the series without adding the additional baggage to the series. A comic that can breathe new life into this tenured vet, and make me happy. Something that I would be willing to spend money on, and not have the politics of business etiquette get into the way. And, you know what? We have that. It may not be Archie, but I trust it will stick to the respect of the series and does give me my (long awaited) third season to the show. Archie will never be considered as an acceptable outcome for me, but simply more of an alternate ending that you may or may not like. Doesn't mean it's all bad though, just another one of Sonics many cascading universes that never allign with each other.

[LaserX5]

Seems to me the reason SatAM isn't being respected is because the younger audience aren't respecting it, likely because they have never seen the shows and can't connect emotionally to the characters. Does a company try and take the time to creatively write an old series into the hearts of the new readers, or rely on the already-existing fanbase of the newer stuff? It seems more profitable for them to rely on what the next generation is getting in to. If they respected the SatAM series more, I would be willing to pay more into getting the series, but at what cost? How many kids who don't know what SatAM is would stop reading it because they don't want to learn a whole new series? Or because their favorite, new shiny characters aren't given more attention? This kind of thing does happen, and makes for a nightmare to balance out.

I agree with alot of what you said. It is sadly true about the fact Satam is being pushed aside for the bland joke that is Sonic X.

I too would love to see a new comic that would have the Sonic series go back to its Satam roots, but since Sega is determined to wipe out every trace of it that's unacceptable to them, I don't believe that'll ever happen.

Only thing we can hope for is that the fans of Sonic will get their fill of this joke of a comic and stop buying it altogether.

[henryiii]

My problem with doing a full blown reboot of the comic to match SATAM 100% is that I like alot of which Archie has done and I don't want that all thrown away for a holistic SATAM comic.

And really is this a good idea in the long run? The book doesn't really have the power to enthrall kids to the teenage and adult years anymore and Teens and adults are one of the reasons for the longevity of the comic and who are also the main primary demographic of the comic book industry as a whole. If one of them saw this comic in a stand with no conflict and flat characters and bright colors he or she would just pass it by.

And really it's not even good by all ages standards. If you want something that everyone loves; it has to be simple and smart enough for kids to love it and deep and mature and cool enough for everyone else too love it.

Really what ever happened to pleasing everyone.