72 replies to this topic

[GamemasterAnthony]

Yeah. Unfortunately for Mr. Pantsonheadretarded...er, Penders...Sega will probably have the last word on this since THEY technically have ownership of all the Sonic based characters. This includes all the ones created for the cartoons and comics as well. In fact if anyone has any merchandise with any of the SatAM characters on it, you'll probably notice that it says ©SEGA on them...not ©DiC.

[J.E.Smith]

This isn't the first time an Archie writer tried claiming ownership to their characters. In 2000, Dan DeCarlo tried filing a lawsuit against Archie claiming ownership for Josie and the Pussycats after the horrid live-action film came out. DeCarlo lost the suit and was fired from Archie as a result.

Seriously, if it didn't work for DeCarlo, why does Ken think it'll work for him?

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

People in the entertainment industry RARELY return to it after filing a lawsuit over creative issues. If you're suing over creative issues, EVEN IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT AND HAVE GROUNDS TO SUE, you should sue for enough to retire. Because you will never be hired to work in the industry again. Nobody wants to hire a legal problem.

Unfortunately, I don't think Ken Penders is in the right or even has sufficient ground to sue. So he'll probably just loose his career in the process without the characters/stories he wants. He should just take what he's learned and apply it to something that is clearly his own. Sure, it may appear similar for a while, but after enough work it will start to take on it's own identity.

[furrykef]

My response to Ken Penders.

[chief]

So THATS where Miko hides out..

I agree with John on the Sonic Bitching. This is just a whole new story for both sides of the stupid fanboy spectrum to attack eachother.

[J.E.Smith]

Another thing that puzzles me about the whole thing...didn't Ken himself say many years ago (Late 90s perhaps?) that any character he made for the comic automatically became Sega's property? I remember reading something like that a long time ago, but I can't seem to dig it up (It was the one where he also stated that all fancharacters become Sega's property or something along those lines).

[chief]

One would think that it has to become either SEGA or Archies property. Thats all it is, working for a company voids out any copywrite claim you have providing that what you are doing is doing what you were hired to do.


I'm no lawyer or anything, and like Kef mentioned, maybe Penders had some awesome section in his contract that gave him certain rights.. who knows. All we can do is sit and wait.

However, like Freaky said.. I'm pretty sure he just fucked whatever career he had.

[J.E.Smith]

And Ian continues to assure us everything's going to be okay:

The Archie legal department is handling things. I've been told to keep writing as usual and to continue with our plans for the end of 2010/start of 2011. As I said before: no worries.

Bear in mind that I don't have all the information. All I'm going off of is my limited understanding of the ownership of things within the book and franchise. So unless Mr. Penders pulls a rabbit out of his hat, I feel fairly confident in my understanding of things.

1) Work-for-Hire - While I'm bound by my contract to not talk about my contract, I can say I'm work-for-hire. I've been on the book for five years (!!!) and I'm still freelance, part-time, on-the-side. All of my contributions to the book are for the book, and I'm paid for that.

All the stuff I came up with for "Young Salem" - Foreman Armstrong, Mortimer Destiny, the Lizarmyn, Horde Lord, concept, etc. - is Archie's. I can't do my own book under BKC about Mortimer and Felicia's younger days.

Sonic-wise, I have a harder parallel to draw since I've spent more time using the content within the book and taking it in new directions. I suppose Thrash is the best example, lean as he is character-wise. He's Archie's. Plain and simple.

Everyone on staff (and I include us freelancers when I say this) has to sign that contract. So unless Mr. Penders's contract was wildly different, he signed away those characters before he even created them.

2) SEGA - It is my understanding, as explained by Mr. Penders himself years ago on his forum - that ultimately SEGA owns everything in the book. If it's associated with Sonic in the book, it is by extension SEGA's. From my understanding, that is why BioWare could so freely emulate the Dark Legion for the Marauders.

I know there was some confusion elsewhere concerning rights to SatAM. As it was explained, SEGA owns the intellectual property - the characters and such - but DiC retains the rights to the animation. So you wouldn't see SEGA reselling SatAM boxsets willy-nilly. Conversely, DiC wouldn't be able to just up and make a new Sonic cartoon.

3) Reboot - Oh if I had a nickle for every time this word got tossed around. I've already begun material for 2011 and, as I said before, have been told there's no need to change. Not that we're blindly forging ahead, but that we have no reason to stop.

What would need a reboot, in the scenario that Mr. Penders somehow did win out in all this, is his plans. SEGA would not grant him the license to use Knuckles, I can flat-out tell you that with certainty. So right there the core component of the Echidna Lore - the main character - is gone.

He would not be able to use Angel Island, Mobius, or the Chaos Emeralds. Easy enough fix, though, right? It's Skyhigh Island on Terra using the Magi-Gems for flight. (copyright, by the way. Double-tappsies, no take-backs).

But the entire Echidna cast is comprised of Knuckles knock-offs. Mr. Penders would be required to redesign the entire cast, unless he's planning on trying to pass it off as parody (which I doubt).

By the time the property would be safe to touch, it would be unrecognizable. It's not about Knuckles's society or family. It's not about echidnas (the kind we think of, at least). It would now be a sci-fi-lite story about some dudes on a flying island. That could be interesting in its own right, but it's not the story I think Mr. Penders wants to tell, and it's not the one the echidna fans want to read. So I'm not entirely sure what his greater thinking is here.

Again, take my words with a grain of salt. I'm not privy to absolutely everything going on. But from what I do know I am confident I - and you all - have nothing to worry about.

So relax, curl up with the latest SONIC book, and enjoy it while ignoring the storm outside. This too shall pass.

[chief]

As pretty much everyone has said or thought.. Mr. Penders just dug himself into a deap whole that will end up being the grave of his career

[Lord Exor]

I must have that graphic novel.

but.........................Is that even legal?

I will make it legal.

[henryiii]

More delicious bits from Ken's board. Bon appetit.

One thing that people should consider when discussing this matter is that unlike Marvel and DC Comics, Archie Comics has never believed in paying the creators at any time for reprints of their work. Neither Michael Gallagher nor Scott Shaw! were paid a dime when their initial 4-issue Sonic mini-series was collected into a trade paperback edition, nor has ANY creator been paid for any of their work currently being printed in the SONIC ARCHIVES series.

Meanwhile, Marvel and DC pay their creators royalties every time their work sees publication anywhere, even if it is used on licensed properties. I know this because I have several friends in the industry who receive regular royalty checks, unlike the creators who work for Archie. Indeed, many of the older artists could use the extra bucks the company generates from the Archie Digest reprints, but the company doesn't see fit to work things out with them. Why else do you think Dan DeCarlo of all people got fed up and decided to take Archie to court after working 40 years for them?

Fans are essentially subsidizing Archie screwing the creators by taking the attitude that Archie deserves everything when there is more than enough to go around and treat everyone fairly. By everyone, I mean everyone. That includes Mike K, Karl, Dave, Art, Spaz, Fry, Steve, Dawn and everyone else, including Ian. My actions have always been more than just about me. If I win, everyone who ever worked on the book will win. I would think Sonic fandom could support that stand

[Robthe1st]

I can't beileve he do this!

I used to trust him and I've meet with him in person once, seems respectful. But now, he's truning his back against us! Shame on him!!

[chief]

http://www.tssznews....onic-comic-row/



I guess we wait till Monday. I would like to see all that Mr. Penders is claiming here.

[DCC]

Yes, this is interesting. It would make a great TV drama episode. I am not a lawyer but I don't see how Penders can win on the copyright issue(the royality issue maybe) since Sega does own the copyright to the Archie characters. We'll just have to wait and see how this turns out. I don't see this ruinning the comic. Even if this does end up killing the comic book, which I don't think it will, I will be fine with it as long as things end on a good note and with a happy ending for Sonic and Sally.

[Robthe1st]

Yes, this is interesting. It would make a great TV drama episode. I am not a lawyer but I don't see how Penders can win on the copyright issue(the royality issue maybe) since Sega does own the copyright to the Archie characters. We'll just have to wait and see how this turns out. I don't see this ruinning the comic. Even if this does end up killing the comic book, which I don't think it will, I will be fine with it as long as things end on a good note and with a happy ending for Sonic and Sally.

On second thought, I don't want to defend Ken, but, I don't think it's really an bad idea. Unless, if he owns Sonic, Sally, or the other charcters from the SatM Series, that would cause some trouble.

And, we'll see how it goes from Ken.

[chief]

http://www.tssznews....pyright-claims/

There ya have it. His copy write claims

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

See ya, Ken Penders! I don't ever expect you back in the industry ever again.

[Juice16]

Now doesn't Penders feel silly now? BYE BYE silly fool.

[Speedy_25]

Wow......that is all I can say......

[saber16]

Awww... I was really looking forward to what he would do with Rob O’ the Hedge... You know... one of his own, totally original characters that he crafted with his own tears, sweat and blood?

... What the hell was he hoping to accomplish? Whatever, he had a good run and he left his mark on the Archie series.