10 replies to this topic

[The Man]

Overall, what are the general limitations to fiction? There are certain situations that don't normally happen in stories. I'm trying to get a quick list of things that don't happen.

-The hero/ine usually loses in the end.
-The secondary character's finishes off the main villian. Lives longer than the main hero.
-Any other characters have one greater trait than either the main character or villian that's used once.
-When traveling they actually die along the way or everyone makes it to the destination.
-A victor is determined early and a descisive action is prompt.
-The way things might happen as compared to real time.
-Having to justify plot holes in fiction compared to reality.
-Satisfying a fan base.

Please add.

[John Roberts]

Well, not to rain on your parade, but shows like Babylon 5, New Battlestar, The Shield (ect, ect) have proven some of your points wrong. And I can happily and proudly say, cause I'm such a fan-slut, that every one* of your points has been done, more than once, on a little series called Buffy.

*Except for 'Having to justify plot holes in fiction compared to reality' 'cause I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about there.

[chalcara]

Um...

"The hero/ine usually loses in the end."

That's actually the DEFINING characteristic of a classic tragedy; a few more common examples would be the greek play Antigone and Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

[Tristan Palmgren]

Someone needs to read different kinds of fiction. Literary fiction, even. Cormac McCarthy is a good author for a newcomer to start with, especially if you find happy endings problematic.

[The Man]

-Avoiding your common set-up.
-Finding an unpredictable ending.

I was trying to be sarcastic with some of those. I wasn't as impressed with Romeo and Juliet because the story sets itself up for that. I probably should post this issue elsewhere too. :razz:

I was guessing they'd abducate besides commiting suicide, but I guess that's where melodrama kicks in.

There's definately plenty of other examples. But more often than not the good guys win and we go home happy. We need an ending where the characters demise is less predictable, no draws, do not leave it undetermined, and don't make it all a dream.

I guess that's it then. Unless your character is immortal, their life ends with a decaying six feet under or whatever it is depending on the person.

Edit-ok, I posted this at least one other place thus far.

-Only as strong as the writer(s).

[Vlad Yvhv]

The ending typically needs to fit the nature of the story. That doesn't always mean that it has to be expectable. Just that you'd probly do best to avoid stuff like killing off the hero in a purely comedic story, unless it's an absolutely hilarious death. Or ending a completely dark story with a happy fairytale ending.

[The Man]

Who set up Roger Rabbit is the best example imo.

Cartoons mixed with programs in a serious and funny way.

*Spoilers for the couple of you who might not have seen it*

I like how Roger is tied up at the end and virtually beats no bad guys. The main hero that's not. I think Sonic can learn a lot from Roger by getting the big round guy to do his work for him. Ha ha.

[Xian Shade]

Neil Gaiman's "American Gods". Quite contrary to what you say, the gods are omnipresent, but not immortal. Many characters bite the big one in this story, including the main character, and several supporting characters.

I don't know if it entirely applies, but Stephen King's "The Running Man" also follows this precedent, in that not only does he not win (unlike the movie), but his family is killed, people that helped him are tortured, and he kills the producer of the games 9/11 style by crashing a plane into the building, right into the office of the producer, while his guts are hanging out and he's bleeding to death, trying to stay conscious just long enough to take the producer with him.

[The Man]

Edit-bad connection for double post.

Now we're getting close to non-fiction. In that case I would watch Saving Private Ryan or some other better fighting story.

I hope I'm not gutting it too badly, Xian(Pun Intended), but it sounds like I should only read non-fiction. So that leads too...

-Few and far between very intruiging fiction like Aeon Flux.

I guess I don't have a right to protest. There's always Anime. Ghost in the Shell.

It does lead to the side bar is the future fiction only? Not important really.

Even trying to write about or produce shows causes reflections, light, and plot holes that aren't there in real life. But this is excessive nitpickiness, so I'll stick to the bigger issue.

[Vlad Yvhv]

Fiction is not reality. It's supposed to be an escape from reality, so injecting too much reality into fiction can ruin it. As the old saying goes: "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

[The Man]

Well, lets consider this a recap of everything that's ever been printed. Most of the fiction out there represents what we would like to see in every day life. Much of it reflects every day life into a conclusion.

But as long as it got the point across. I'm sure in the future fiction will get more interesting as our understanding keeps expanding. Fiction and reality remind me of the double slit theory. Maybe fiction will be/is responsible for the truth one day. Imagine that.

Edit-few more last thoughts.

But fictions purpose is to generally spark imagination. No, it isn't perfect and some of the things I pointed out might not be weaknesses. If it is weak we should improve and/or work around it.

Having a fan base gives us something to do and talk about even if it's imperfect. I'm sure we've had a lot of fun exploring books; however, since it's not real it's simply harder to take it seriously. But we'll still have fun.

Like on Batman the Movie. It's not every day in the newspaper you see someone dead making laughing noises.